2014 Offseason Thread

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Kenni7777

Larry sanders. Please trade for him

I have serious reservations about Sanders. Would rather take a risk on injury prone Okafor or Chandler > Sanders. He's a dog abuser, marijuana rights activists ( all well and good but your in the NBA bro), reportedly hit a teammate, and questionable work ethic after getting his PAYDAY (4/44). Obviously, the ceiling is high for Sanders, but he's just not my cup of tea.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by BPo001

How did Granger look last year? Isn't he a free agent?

I believe he has a player option for 1.3 million. Stands to reason that he will opt out. He has SERIOUS health concerns. He played well in limited time at the end of the season for the LAC, but in the playoffs he was horrid.

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

I could definitely be happy with Ariza and Okafor (health permitting). I would like to see something creative done with Jose Calderon. I know others on the board have been somewhat skeptical about trading Calderon... I just don't really see any other option if we truly want to be better. If we packaged him with Wright I could see teams being very interested....

1-Mavs draft PF Cleanthony Early 34th pick
2-Mavs trade #51 + $3.2 Million cash + Memphis 2016 2nd for a Top 5-8 2nd Rd Pick and draft C Tavares
3-Mavs trade Mekel + Cash for Cap space
4-Mavs sign Ariza $8 Million
5-Mavs sign Dirk $9 Million
6-Mavs sign Lowry for $12.5 Million
7-Mavs sign Carter for $2.7 Million
8-Mavs sign Harris for $2.7 Million Room exception
9-Mavs sign PF Anthony Tolliver Vet Min

10-Mavs trade Calderon + Wright + 2 1st round Picks ( 3 if necessary ) to Detroit for Monroe SNT ( Agreed upon before Dallas uses Cap space )


PG-Lowry / Harris / Larkin
SG-Ellis / Ellington / Ledo
SF-Ariza / Carter / Crowder
PF-Dirk / Tolliver / Early
C-Monroe / Dalembert / Tavares

Maybe instead of drafting Tavares you draft SF KJ McDaniels and trade Ellington for Cap space using that Cap space to sign Birdman


PG-Lowry / Harris / Larkin
SG-Ellis / Carter / Ledo
SF-Ariza / Crowder / McDaniels
PF-Dirk / Tolliver / Early
C-Monroe / Dalembert / Birdman

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Floppy

1-Mavs draft PF Cleanthony Early 34th pick
2-Mavs trade #51 + $3.2 Million cash + Memphis 2016 2nd for a Top 5-8 2nd Rd Pick and draft C Tavares
3-Mavs trade Mekel + Cash for Cap space
4-Mavs sign Ariza $8 Million
5-Mavs sign Dirk $9 Million
6-Mavs sign Lowry for $12.5 Million
7-Mavs sign Carter for $2.7 Million
8-Mavs sign Harris for $2.7 Million Room exception
9-Mavs sign PF Anthony Tolliver Vet Min

10-Mavs trade Calderon + Wright + 2 1st round Picks ( 3 if necessary ) to Detroit for Monroe SNT ( Agreed upon before Dallas uses Cap space )


PG-Lowry / Harris / Larkin
SG-Ellis / Ellington / Ledo
SF-Ariza / Carter / Crowder
PF-Dirk / Tolliver / Early
C-Monroe / Dalembert / Tavares

Maybe instead of drafting Tavares you draft SF KJ McDaniels and trade Ellington for Cap space using that Cap space to sign Birdman


PG-Lowry / Harris / Larkin
SG-Ellis / Carter / Ledo
SF-Ariza / Crowder / McDaniels
PF-Dirk / Tolliver / Early
C-Monroe / Dalembert / Birdman

For some reason I had it in my mind that Lowry would not be leaving Toronto.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

For some reason I had it in my mind that Lowry would not be leaving Toronto.

Especially if Coach Casey has any say in things...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

For some reason I had it in my mind that Lowry would not be leaving Toronto.

Originally Posted by spreedom

Especially if Coach Casey has any say in things...

Or not? Kyle Lowry, Heat have mutual interest

[MavzMan]

Do you see Bron, Bosh, and Wade all taking $6-8 less and also Lowrey only taking $12-15 mill? I don't see "The Big 3" doing that for Lowrey. Maybe Carmelo just because of the tie between Bron and Melo, but not with Lowrey.

On the flip side, wouldn't it be crazy to see Toronto lose their last 2 stars to Miami? Minnesota and Toronto would have to really reconsider their strategy for players if both him and KLove leave. They maybe should start building a new version of the blue collar Detroit Pistons team without any major super-stars since theirs keep leaving them high-and-dry.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Do you see Bron, Bosh, and Wade all taking $6-8 less and also Lowrey only taking $12-15 mill?

MY understanding was that Lowrey was looking at making 10-13 mill a year. Is he now possibly looking at an even richer payday?

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

MY understanding was that Lowrey was looking at making 10-13 mill a year. Is he now possibly looking at an even richer payday?

No, 10-13 sounds about right. Which will make Teague and Dragic look like even greater bargains. Calderon too!
for that matter.

[Dirk4Mavs]

I will see just is big target ( monroe )

great player and underrated with him team . He is play with stuiped player ( smith+ Jenninges )

This is player rebuilding around

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Dirk4Mavs

I will see just is big target ( monroe )

great player and underrated with him team . He is play with stuiped player ( smith+ Jenninges )

This is player rebuilding around

Can someone please tell me what he is saying?

[yahyes]

Wilson Chandler and Kenneth Faried for Love?? That'd be funny to see if it happens.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Dirk4Mavs

I will see just is big target ( monroe )

great player and underrated with him team . He is play with stuiped player ( smith+ Jenninges )

This is player rebuilding around

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Can someone please tell me what he is saying?

Greg Monroe, a big, is a great player who is underrated because he's on a bad team with stupid players. Good guy to build around.

I agree.

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Greg Monroe, a big, is a great player who is underrated because he's on a bad team with stupid players. Good guy to build around.

I agree.

Would Monroe be one of the "stupid players"? I'm just asking because I haven't seen too much of him. I would love to have his size and potential, but if he is just another low BBIQ player like O.J. Mayo, then I definitely don't want to commit to him. The players that need to play for RC need to be high IQ people that can think rather than rely on athletic ability alone.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Would Monroe be one of the "stupid players"? I'm just asking because I haven't seen too much of him. I would love to have his size and potential, but if he is just another low BBIQ player like O.J. Mayo, then I definitely don't want to commit to him. The players that need to play for RC need to be high IQ people that can think rather than rely on athletic ability alone.

Nah, he's definitely not a low BBIQ guy, just not a very good defender... There's always a chance he could be coached-up in the right situation, but he's shown nothing so far in his career that indicates he'll ever be much of a rim protector.

[spreedom]

Yeah, Monroe is a little undersized for a center, and he doesn't have great footwork, and he doesn't defend well in space, but I think if you get Coach Carlisle working on him for a training camp, he'll be a little better almost right away... and possibly a lot better after a year or so.

More than that, he's a young guy who can score, rebound, and is an elite passer at the center position... that's most of the reason I'm interested in him.

[EricaLubarsky]

Poor defender and merely average rebounder. Not the kind of guy I'd build around and defintely not the kind of guy I'd give more than 8mill/year for.

I do love his versatility, though. He posts well, moves well with/without the ball and does pass it well. We're just never going to be an elite defensive team with him, Dirk, and an aging Marion in the front court (and Calderon/Ellis in the backcourt-- oh my!)

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Poor defender and merely average rebounder. Not the kind of guy I'd build around and defintely not the kind of guy I'd give more than 8mill/year for.

Yeah its going to take significantly more than 8 million. I think long term his defense can greatly improve especially under the tutelage of a great coach and organization. But yeah.. seems to be abit of a reach for us in a 2 year window with Dirk. For me it would come down to cost, and I think there are just too many suitors for him that will raise the price above any kind of decent value.

[EricaLubarsky]

Cheeks was actually a strong coach for Monroe defensively, but Monroe played worse for him than he did for Loyer. SVG should be even better.

Then there's this:

Pistons make retaining Greg Monroe their top priority

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz35CDyVSPP

Teams can always use a 24-year old, high-character, unselfish big man who can score around the basket. With the cap increasing by $5 million, there’s no guarantee Monroe, who has yet to make an All-Star team, won’t receive a max offer.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Cheeks was actually a strong coach for Monroe defensively, but Monroe played worse for him than he did for Loyer. SVG should be even better.

Then there's this:

Pistons make retaining Greg Monroe their top priority

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz35CDyVSPP

Honestly, the fact that teams might pay Monroe 15 million a season is just laughable.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Honestly, the fact that teams might pay Monroe 15 million a season is just laughable.

Especially since they're playing Monroe at the 4 next to Drummond at the 5, which has proven to be a failed experiment so far... Monroe isn't exactly a guy who stretches the floor, which is what PFs do these days - that strategy would've worked a lot better in the pre-Dirk era.

[spreedom]

Young guy that averages 13/9 with 2-3 assists per game... I think that's almost always a max player these days. I don't thinki it's a huge overpay unless he does absolutely nothing to improve over the course of the contract.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Young guy that averages 13/9 with 2-3 assists per game... I think that's almost always a max player these days. I don't thinki it's a huge overpay unless he does absolutely nothing to improve over the course of the contract.

If by "these days" you mean 2002, then I'm with you. New CBA says you can't pay a solid journeyman that kind of cash and expect to have a team worth beans.

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Poor defender and merely average rebounder. Not the kind of guy I'd build around and defintely not the kind of guy I'd give more than 8mill/year for.

I do love his versatility, though. He posts well, moves well with/without the ball and does pass it well. We're just never going to be an elite defensive team with him, Dirk, and an aging Marion in the front court (and Calderon/Ellis in the backcourt-- oh my!)

I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself penciling in Marion at SF ...I think the Dallas defense would be fine if we signed Monroe and Ariza while also moving Calderon to the bench and starting Harris .


Harris / Ellis / Ariza / Dirk / Monroe


Like some said with some coaching Monroe could be a better defender

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Young guy that averages 13/9 with 2-3 assists per game... I think that's almost always a max player these days. I don't thinki it's a huge overpay unless he does absolutely nothing to improve over the course of the contract.

Monroe averaged 15.2 PPG 9.3 RPG 2.1 APG this year

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

If by "these days" you mean 2002, then I'm with you. New CBA says you can't pay a solid journeyman that kind of cash and expect to have a team worth beans.

How is he a journeyman ? He will be 25 the start of his 5th season ..I also don't buy anything with the new CBA nothing has shown that teams aren't still willing to spend especially now after the Clippers sales price and the cap going up $5 Million

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Floppy

How is he a journeyman ? He will be 25 the start of his 5th season ..I also don't buy anything with the new CBA nothing has shown that teams aren't still willing to spend especially now after the Clippers sales price and the cap going up $5 Million

You give Dirk 12mill, Marion 7mill, you are sitting at around 54mill. That gives us about 9 mill in cap space, meaning that we may not even be able to sign Monroe to what he might get.

Now let's pretend we let Marion walk and give Dirk 10mill/year (like Duncan got). Then we have a trim roster and roughly 18 mill to work with. If we give Monroe the max, he gets 15.8mill and we have about 2.2mill to fill out the rest of the roster, including signing Harris. If harris gets 2.2m a year, then that is all of our cap space and we only have draftees and min guys.

Monroe/Dalembert
Dirk/Wright
Ellington
Ellis
Harris/Calderon
-----------
Ledo, Larkin, Mekel, 34th pick, 51st pick

That's a thin team right there, because we overpaid for Monroe.

That's why we can't pay that much for a guy who is just solid.

[spreedom]

Monroe, who is now coming off of his rookie contract (with the team that drafted him) is a journeyman?

We'll have to agree to disagree about him I guess. Different perspectives.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

You give Dirk 12mill, Marion 7mill, you are sitting at around 54mill. That gives us about 9 mill in cap space, meaning that we may not even be able to sign Monroe to what he might get.

Now let's pretend we let Marion walk and give Dirk 10mill/year (like Duncan got). Then we have a trim roster and roughly 18 mill to work with. If we give Monroe the max, he gets 15.8mill and we have about 2.2mill to fill out the rest of the roster, including signing Harris. If harris gets 2.2m a year, then that is all of our cap space and we only have draftees and min guys.

Monroe/Dalembert
Dirk/Wright
Ellington
Ellis
Harris/Calderon
-----------
Ledo, Larkin, Mekel, 34th pick, 51st pick

That's a thin team right there, because we overpaid for Monroe.

That's why we can't pay that much for a guy who is just solid.

Uh... Marion will not be getting anywhere close to 7 million.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Monroe, who is now coming off of his rookie contract (with the team that drafted him) is a journeyman?

We'll have to agree to disagree about him I guess. Different perspectives.

Perhaps we have a different definition of journeyman. In my book a journeyman is someone solid who hasn't ever been great.

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Uh... Marion will not be getting anywhere close to 7 million.

It's what he's been asking. He'll probably get 4-6mill/year for 2 years.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Perhaps we have a different definition of journeyman. In my book a journeyman is someone solid who hasn't ever been great.

I understand the term to generally refer to guys who have bounced around the league because they are solid but absolutely not game-changers or franchise building blocks... that sort of thing. But the journey part of it refers to the fact that they have usually played for at least three or four different teams.

Maybe Monroe will ultimately end up that way, but as it is right now he's a solid scorer, a top-15 rebounder (even when sharing most of his minutes/rebounding opportunities with Drummond), and one of the four or five best passers at his position. If he stays a 15/9/2 sort of guy that doesn't really stand out in any other areas, then I agree that he probably isn't worth a 4yr/$65M contract, but considering that he is (A) young with potential, especially with strong coaching in a good environment and (B) a restricted free agent in what might prove to be a relatively unspectacular draft class, if you want to get him to sign with you, you're going to have to overpay him slightly.

Just for fun, what would you peg his value at as a free agent? And what would you be willing to pay him to come to Dallas? Like I said, I think we just have different perceptions of the guy. Just curious as to what yours is.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Perhaps we have a different definition of journeyman. In my book a journeyman is someone solid who hasn't ever been great.



It's what he's been asking. He'll probably get 4-6mill/year for 2 years.

"Shawn Marion said on Wednesday that his main focus for free agency is joining a team that can win a championship

“You know, it’s not about money right now. I’ve made a lot of money in my career and I’ve been truly blessed. You know, I take none of this for granted, and I think I’ve just got to weigh my options. We’re going to see what’s out there and what’s available, and I’ve just got to weigh it out. I’m going to put it in God’s hands.” (Marion)

If this is the case.. He won't get anywhere near 6 million either from a contender. 4 million a year seems about right if we want to retain him. Otherwise, he will go to Heat or similar situation for less.

[spreedom]

I would absolutely love to have Marion back for like $3-4M for a year or two if we first upgraded the SF and C postions... but my gut says he'll go to a team like San Antonio or Miami. Maybe OKC.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I would absolutely love to have Marion back for like $3-4M for a year or two if we first upgraded the SF and C postions... but my gut says he'll go to a team like San Antonio or Miami. Maybe OKC.

I'm in agreement. I hadn't actually considered him thinking on San Antonio, but it makes perfect sense.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I understand the term to generally refer to guys who have bounced around the league because they are solid but absolutely not game-changers or franchise building blocks... that sort of thing. But the journey part of it refers to the fact that they have usually played for at least three or four different teams.

Maybe Monroe will ultimately end up that way, but as it is right now he's a solid scorer, a top-15 rebounder (even when sharing most of his minutes/rebounding opportunities with Drummond), and one of the four or five best passers at his position. If he stays a 15/9/2 sort of guy that doesn't really stand out in any other areas, then I agree that he probably isn't worth a 4yr/$65M contract, but considering that he is (A) young with potential, especially with strong coaching in a good environment and (B) a restricted free agent in what might prove to be a relatively unspectacular draft class, if you want to get him to sign with you, you're going to have to overpay him slightly.

Just for fun, what would you peg his value at as a free agent? And what would you be willing to pay him to come to Dallas? Like I said, I think we just have different perceptions of the guy. Just curious as to what yours is.

I wouldn't go above 7mill/yr or 4yrs/34mill. He'll certainly get more than that.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I wouldn't go above 7mill/yr or 4yrs/34mill. He'll certainly get more than that.

Oh yeah. He'll likely get close to double that amount. And I'd probably pay it. But reasonable people can disagree on complex issues...

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by spreedom

But reasonable people can disagree on complex issues...

This may be the greatest thing I've read in a very long time. In a world (nation mainly) where you are afraid to say anything close to what's really going through your mind for fear of it being misinterpreted in the ever-so-slightest way, I truly wish people would adopt your philosophy more.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by spreedom

But reasonable people can disagree on complex issues...

Reasonable people on the Internet? Sounds like some far-fetched science fiction to me...

[hayth.james.g]

In regards to Monroe, I am kinda in between Spreedom and EricaLubarsky. I feel like 7-8 mill a year is a low ball range to expect a player with Monroe's skill set AND ceiling.. I'm not quite optimistic enough about his long term potential to think hes worth going as deep as 15 mill, but I do think somewhere in the middle would be a nice number. Do I think it would be enough? Probably not, as I think someone is going to give him somewhere in the amount of 13-15 mill a year. I could probably live with a 4/44 contract if the Mavs handed it out. Is he worth that right now? Debatable, but I think that his potential as a 18+ ppg, 10 rbpg, 4-6 apg threat could be enough. The real question mark is how much room to grow does he have on the defense end?

EDIT: Also I probably shouldn't waste to much of my time even talking about Monroe. Something tells me hes probably not even on the Mavs radar. I think there is a much more likely case to be made for Chandler, Okafor, Sanders (kill me now), and perhaps even Hibbert. "Defensive anchor" is what any team with Dirk on it needs, and I just don't think the Mavs are going to move away from that until Dirk retires.

[spreedom]

Also, still cool with us getting Asik...