Mavs get Parsons!!!

[sike]

Originally Posted by jthig32

He's very correct. Although can't do Bosh at max.

If you made me bet, right now, I would bet on Houston matching.

Bosh taking less than the Max to retain a player like Parsons seems like a no brainer to me. As in a likelihood.

Ugh.

Oh well, as long as we still get Lance (assuming Deng & Ariza get gobbled up), this can be an awesome off season.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

This has been in the works for the last week. It's pretty much assumed that if Bosh comes then Lin has to go. It's pretty much a given that Houston CAN retain Parsons while adding Bosh. The question is if they are willing to pay that kind of money for the next 3 years while being WAY over the salary cap. I haven't seen the assumed math on what their roster would look like, but I can only imagine the damage keeping Parsons would do in year 3 of being over the cap.

If they match Parsons and miraculously get rid of Lin without taking back contracts

roster
Howard 21.4m
Bosh 18.0m
Parsons 15.8m
Harden 14.8m
Jones 1.6m
Motiejunas 1.4m
----------------------
73mill

2014-2015 cap and tax thresholds
No tax - 63.1m-76.8m
150% tax - 76.9m-81.7m
175% tax - 81.8m-86.7m
250% tax - 86.8m-91.8m
325% tax - 91.9-96.8m

So they'd have four guys that put them over the cap, and they'd have to fill 6 roster spots with less than 3.8mill to stay below the tax. Also, I assume they'd want to keep their core together, so that'd mean that they'd most likely pay tax for the next few years. After three years, 150% tax becomes 250%, etc. etc

Morey likes winning, but I'm not sure they'd be willing to pay that kind of tax. With those guys on the roster, it's hard to believe that they could fill that many spots that cheaply and still be competitive, particularly without a starting PG.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by jthig32

To be clear what has to happen if Houston wants Bosh and Parsons:

1. Execute Asik trade (I've read New Orleans has to execute a small transaction before they can even do this).

2. Execute Lin trade they supposedly have racked up.

3. Trade away Jones, Montiejunas, Canaan and their first round pick this year (some or all of these could theoretically go out with Asik and/or Lin. They're very small contract)

4. Get Bosh to agree to a contract that starts at about 600K under max starting point. (Almost a million under if they want to keep Beverly too)

To be fair, it's been pointed out to me that a 19.5Mil contract might be the most Bosh is offered if Lebron leaves Miami.

So not out of the woods even if they get Bosh to agree, but it will take a lot of work in a short time.

And because I've seen a few ask: If Parsons comes here, this would, for all intents and purposes, use every last drop of our cap space. You would then have the room exception, minimums and trades.

Dont see any of that as overly difficult for Houston or NO to pull off, if they want to. Totally screws their bargaining positions. But most likely they have everything lined up for the moment Bosh says yes.

Still think its likely Houston matches. Say they do and sign Bosh- what does the luxury tax bill look like?

[Murphy3]

Yep... I suppose this costs the Rockets some money, but nothing to get overly excited about...

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Dont see any of that as overly difficult for Houston or NO to pull off, if they want to. Totally screws their bargaining positions. But most likely they have everything lined up for the moment Bosh says yes.

Still think its likely Houston matches. Say they do and sign Bosh- what does the luxury tax bill look like?

The tax bill shouldn't be that high(parsons salary is basically the difference between the cap and the tax line if I understand correctly. However they wouldn't have the full mle for the next few years and they'd be stuck with just those 4 Beverly and whoever they could get for the min/mini mle and bi annual if I am readin their cap situation correctly.

[Lor20]

Tyson Chandler $14,596,888
Monta Ellis $8,720,000
Brandan Wright $5,000,000
Raymond Felton $4,360,000
Jae Crowder $915,243
Ricky Ledo $816,482
Gal Mekel $816,482

Assuming dirk is at around 9.2 (10,10.8) and harris at 2.8/3/3.2
we'd have 47.2 mil used. 63 mil cap.

14 mil parsons puts us at 61.2 which with cap holds and exception holds puts us over the cap meaning we have the full MLE of 5.3 mil.

In order to give parsons that offer we'll have to renounce bird rights on vince and marion as their cap hold of 20 mil would be an issue...obviously

If we get blair back for minimum we'd have 11 players contracted. i wouldn't mind adding vince for 1.5 of the mle and mo williams for 3.5 and some vet minimum guy somewhere.


Perhaps trading Wright and felton for a different big man that is a better fit even though I like Wright.

harris/Mo willams
ellis/ carter/crowder
Parsons/crowder/carter
Dirk/?/blair
Chandler/?/blair

I could live with ? being wright but why are we going after mo williams if we are planning on keeping harris and felton?

I'd call that a decent offseason. got better and younher at sf, got better at center, worse at PG offensively but slightly better defensively which was a bigger issue last season.

edit..maybe im wrong wtih mle. i guess we drop below to sign parsons which means we gt sign dirk first, then renounce marion and carters bird rights and then sign parsons, then we are below cap and can only get the room exception? its a little confusing to me as to which exceptions create a cap hold and which part you can use to sign players.

[Five-ofan]

You can't use cap space and the mle in the same season

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by sike

Bosh taking less than the Max to retain a player like Parsons seems like a no brainer to me. As in a likelihood.

Ugh.

Oh well, as long as we still get Lance (assuming Deng & Ariza get gobbled up), this can be an awesome off season.

I would think based on the potential alone that Lance would be right up there on the totem pole. And he shouldn't cost anywhere close to 15 mil...but who knows.

[scorched03]

i'm still confused why a team, any team would help the heat or any of these super teams once they are assembled.

why in the world would anyone take on lin if rockets have: dho, harden, parsons, bosh.
their firsts turn into nothing, they have no more assets til all the contracts expire. it serves them right to get every single cent taxed super high to assemble a team like that.

the current state of the nba is weird. these proposed mega teams with players joining forces, teams tanking/clearing cap space. this isn't the same as watching same player you love, i.e. dirk, stay on your team til they retire.

[sike]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I would think based on the potential alone that Lance would be right up there on the totem pole. And he shouldn't cost anywhere close to 15 mil...but who knows.

Lance would be my pick of all of 'em. 23 yr old, defensive bull dog, guards 3 positions, offensive game just beginning to blossom but already fairly efficient, one of the best rebounders for his position in the league . Potential through the roof. $10mil gets it done.

He is a player for the present and future. (Unlike Deng/Ariza.)

So he's a little crazy?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by scorched03

i'm still confused why a team, any team would help the heat or any of these super teams once they are assembled.

why in the world would anyone take on lin if rockets have: dho, harden, parsons, bosh.
their firsts turn into nothing, they have no more assets til all the contracts expire. it serves them right to get every single cent taxed super high to assemble a team like that.

the current state of the nba is weird. these proposed mega teams with players joining forces, teams tanking/clearing cap space. this isn't the same as watching same player you love, i.e. dirk, stay on your team til they retire.

Agree that it took away a lot of enjoyment to see superteams. I don't watch the NBA to watch the allstar game. I watch to see well-coached players work together.

Still, I see why bad teams tank and take picks from teams trying to get picks-- often there is a minimum salary obligation involved and they can scrape picks and young talent for absorbing a player for a year. Both super-teams and tanking teams are bad for the NBA, but it's understandable for the individual teams involved. Before the era of the superteam, there were about 20 stars, sprinkled throughout 29-30 teams so almost every team had at least one guy to watch. Now the good teams have all the talent and there are 10+ teams without any sort of player worth watching unless you like watching college guys develop.

[CapitanObvious]

I don't know about you guys but I am now tweaking my NBA 2k14 roster to have the Chandlers, Felton, Harris, J. Hill and Mo.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by sike

Lance would be my pick of all of 'em. 23 yr old, defensive bull dog, guards 3 positions, offensive game just beginning to blossom but already fairly efficient, one of the best rebounders for his position in the league . Potential through the roof. $10mil gets it done.

He is a player for the present and future. (Unlike Deng/Ariza.)

So he's a little crazy?

I think the antics were blown wayyyy out of proportion, but the lockerroom did blow up at the exact wrong time. Definitely a red flag for the entire team as far as I'm concerned.

And I like a guy who is passionate on pretty much every play. Who better than Rick to put Lance's focus in tune? And Chandler should help guide him with that as well. Better to care too much versus not at all.

But I suppose we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves. I'm quite happy if we get Parsons.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Agree that it took away a lot of enjoyment to see superteams. I don't watch the NBA to watch the allstar game. I watch to see well-coached players work together.

Still, I see why bad teams tank and take picks from teams trying to get picks-- often there is a minimum salary obligation involved and they can scrape picks and young talent for absorbing a player for a year. Both super-teams and tanking teams are bad for the NBA, but it's understandable for the individual teams involved. Before the era of the superteam, there were about 20 stars, sprinkled throughout 29-30 teams so almost every team had at least one guy to watch. Now the good teams have all the talent and there are 10+ teams without any sort of player worth watching unless you like watching college guys develop.

The "super teams" of today are nowhere near as loaded as the super teams of the 80s and 90s.

[EricaLubarsky]

Pops may be the best at putting the fire in nice guys and Carlisle may be the best in the league at taking guys with a fire and focusing it on the game.

Still, if Carlisle doesn't want him, then I gotta side with Carlisle. As much as pairing Ellis with Lance in the backcourt would make us beastly defensively and make up for Ellis' shortcomings, I don't see Lance as our savior.

[sike]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I think the antics were blown wayyyy out of proportion, but the lockerroom did blow up at the exact wrong time. Definitely a red flag for the entire team as far as I'm concerned.

And I like a guy who is passionate on pretty much every play. Who better than Rick to put Lance's focus in tune? And Chandler should help guide him with that as well. Better to care too much versus not at all.

But I suppose we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves. I'm quite happy if we get Parsons.

I'd be ecstatic with Parsons...honestly, I never saw it has a possibility and am trying to keep my enthusiasm tempered.

But now, if we miss out on CP, I think Lance is the only FA that would keep me from suffering a letdown. (Ariza/Deng do not get me excited)

[sike]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Pops may be the best at putting the fire in nice guys and Carlisle may be the best in the league at taking guys with a fire and focusing it on the game.

Still, if Carlisle doesn't want him, then I gotta side with Carlisle.

I'll give you that, EL.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sike

I'd be ecstatic with Parsons...honestly, I never saw it has a possibility and am trying to keep my enthusiasm tempered.

But now, if we miss out on CP, I think Lance is the only FA that would keep me from suffering a letdown. (Ariza/Deng do not get me excited)

Really? I figured Deng or Ariza would be the best we could do this summer (and that was before the Tyson Chandler trade)... But if we somehow landed Parsons or Stephenson, I'd definitely grade this offseason an A+.

[Underdog]

@BallinWithBryan: Important point via @MarkDeeksNBA: Mavs will renounce FAs for Parsons offer sheet. If Houston matches, Dallas can undo the renouncements.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I dunno, I mean, I'm torn on whether Houston matches or not. I mean, they declined an 4th year team option which would have paid Parsons a measly 900k for next season. All at the hopes of getting a max player? That is a huge risk that probably rubber Parsons the wrong way. I thought it was very odd at the time. Now, if they get Bosh, fine, but still, 900k for a guy as productive as he has been for them?

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I dunno, I mean, I'm torn on whether Houston matches or not. I mean, they declined an 4th year team option which would have paid Parsons a measly 900k for next season. All at the hopes of getting a max player? That is a huge risk that probably rubber Parsons the wrong way. I thought it was very odd at the time. Now, if they get Bosh, fine, but still, 900k for a guy as productive as he has been for them?

They declined the option in the hopes they could sign him long term after signing a "superstar". It had nothing to do with the 900k. The problem is I don't think they could of projected him going for 15 million. Before the highest you heard was MAYBE 12 mill.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Really? I figured Deng or Ariza would be the best we could do this summer (and that was before the Tyson Chandler trade)... But if we somehow landed Parsons or Stephenson, I'd definitely grade this offseason an A+.

Agree about CP/Lance + Tyson being a GREAT off season.

But Deng/Ariza just don't do much for me and I don't see them getting us near the top 4/5 in the West this year.

I'm not sure that Lance/CP do either, but they are YOUNG! And this team needs "young".

I'd like to see this off season be for more than the desperate idea of maximizing Dirk's window. Unless the plan is to stink once Dirk retires. (Which isn't a terrible plan considering this team's inability to draft well.)

[bobbyfg7]

Wasn't Parsons on the "Please come to Houston Dwight!" committee, because they're besties? I wonder what he thinks of this? Is this a ploy by the Mavs to lure DH once his contract is up?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sike

Agree about CP/Lance + Tyson being a GREAT off season.

But Deng/Ariza just don't do much for me and I don't see them getting us near the top 4/5 in the West this year.

I'm not sure that Lance/CP do either, but they are YOUNG! And this team needs "young".

I'd like to see this off season be for more than the desperate idea of maximizing Dirk's window. Unless the plan is to stink once Dirk retires. (Which isn't a terrible plan.)

I think you're underrating how close we were to 4/5 last year. A healthy Tyson, a good year from any of the top SF's on the market and a few other roster tweaks (good backup C, good backup PF) and I think we're a fringe contender.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

They declined the option in the hopes they could sign him long term after signing a "superstar". It had nothing to do with the 900k. The problem is I don't think they could of projected him going for 15 million. Before the highest you heard was MAYBE 12 mill.

True, nobody predicted the outrageous spending that has occurred.

[some1nw]

Originally Posted by Lor20

Tyson Chandler $14,596,888
Monta Ellis $8,720,000
Brandan Wright $5,000,000
Raymond Felton $4,360,000
Jae Crowder $915,243
Ricky Ledo $816,482
Gal Mekel $816,482

Assuming dirk is at around 9.2 (10,10.8) and harris at 2.8/3/3.2
we'd have 47.2 mil used. 63 mil cap.

14 mil parsons puts us at 61.2 which with cap holds and exception holds puts us over the cap meaning we have the full MLE of 5.3 mil.

In order to give parsons that offer we'll have to renounce bird rights on vince and marion as their cap hold of 20 mil would be an issue...obviously

If we get blair back for minimum we'd have 11 players contracted. i wouldn't mind adding vince for 1.5 of the mle and mo williams for 3.5 and some vet minimum guy somewhere.


Perhaps trading Wright and felton for a different big man that is a better fit even though I like Wright.

harris/Mo willams
ellis/ carter/crowder
Parsons/crowder/carter
Dirk/?/blair
Chandler/?/blair

I could live with ? being wright but why are we going after mo williams if we are planning on keeping harris and felton?

I'd call that a decent offseason. got better and younher at sf, got better at center, worse at PG offensively but slightly better defensively which was a bigger issue last season.

edit..maybe im wrong wtih mle. i guess we drop below to sign parsons which means we gt sign dirk first, then renounce marion and carters bird rights and then sign parsons, then we are below cap and can only get the room exception? its a little confusing to me as to which exceptions create a cap hold and which part you can use to sign players.

I dont know what makes you think Carter would agree for 1.5m while Mo would get 3.5m Carter clearly had a better season than him.

[sike]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think you're underrating how close we were to 4/5 last year. A healthy Tyson, a good year from any of the top SF's on the market and a few other roster tweaks (good backup C, good backup PF) and I think we're a fringe contender.

I did consider that. SA, LAC, OKC....all better than Mavs.

What does HOU, GSW and POR do this season? Not sure, but I could easily see 1 or 2 of them as better than Dallas.

Thoughts?

[Underdog]

@DerekJamesNBA: If my math is right, Parsons' salary would jump from $15.3m to $17.6m with the trade kicker.

‏@espn_macmahon: Rockets' decision to decline option to pay Chandler Parsons $965K in 14-15 might be biggest blunder of offseason. Blowing up in their face.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I dunno, I mean, I'm torn on whether Houston matches or not. I mean, they declined an 4th year team option which would have paid Parsons a measly 900k for next season. All at the hopes of getting a max player? That is a huge risk that probably rubber Parsons the wrong way. I thought it was very odd at the time. Now, if they get Bosh, fine, but still, 900k for a guy as productive as he has been for them?

Zero chance declining the fourth year rubbed him the wrong way. It's nothing but a win for him.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

If they match Parsons and miraculously get rid of Lin without taking back contracts

roster
Howard 21.4m
Bosh 18.0m
Parsons 15.8m
Harden 14.8m
Jones 1.6m
Motiejunas 1.4m
----------------------
73mill

2014-2015 cap and tax thresholds
No tax - 63.1m-76.8m
150% tax - 76.9m-81.7m
175% tax - 81.8m-86.7m
250% tax - 86.8m-91.8m
325% tax - 91.9-96.8m

So they'd have four guys that put them over the cap, and they'd have to fill 6 roster spots with less than 3.8mill to stay below the tax. Also, I assume they'd want to keep their core together, so that'd mean that they'd most likely pay tax for the next few years. After three years, 150% tax becomes 250%, etc. etc

Morey likes winning, but I'm not sure they'd be willing to pay that kind of tax. With those guys on the roster, it's hard to believe that they could fill that many spots that cheaply and still be competitive, particularly without a starting PG.

Great breakdown. I don't think they match. If they don't, I'm not sure how I feel... I had a foot in the LS bandwagon. Now if we somehow add Marion, Vince, and a backup center in addition to CP/LS we're really going to be dangerous.

Harris/ Felton/ Mekel
Monta/ Vince/ Ledo
Parsons/ Marion/ Crowder
Dirk/ Wright/ Ivan Johnson?
Chandler/ ??? / Bernard James

And if Donnie's really feeling an EoTY performance and replaces Felton with a better backup point.... One can dream

[Popeye]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

They declined the option in the hopes they could sign him long term after signing a "superstar". It had nothing to do with the 900k. The problem is I don't think they could of projected him going for 15 million. Before the highest you heard was MAYBE 12 mill.

Do you think the $900k was really keeping them from signing a "superstar"? It seems like it was an unnessecary move that's going to cost them, at the very least, $14 million in additional salary this year. If they don't match, it will cost them Chandler Parsons on one of the biggest discount salaries in the NBA.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sike

I did consider that. SA, LAC, OKC....all better than Mavs.

What does HOU, GSW and POR do this season? Not sure, but I could easily see 1 or 2 of them as better than Dallas.

Thoughts?

POR is not in the discussion, imo. Based on how they played the second half of last season, and the fact that their offseason acquisition was Chris freaking Kaman, I fully expect them to be scrapping for a playoff spot.

Houston, obviously so much is still up in the air, but unless they swing Bosh and Parsons I think we're better than them next year (and even if they do swing those two, they will have, literally, zero depth and I think their coach sucks).

GSW, who the hell knows. Rookie coach that's never done anything before.

I just think the Mavs can be significantly better than last year even if they "settle" for Ariza/Deng.

[Melonhead]

I personally dont see Lebron going back to Cleveland. As excited as i am at the chance at Parsons, I see houston matching once Lebron/Bosh sign with Heat(unless we bribe lebron to wait until monday)

[Melonhead]

I still dont see Lebron going to Cleveland. But still outside shot Houston stabs at Deng/Ariza

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I just think the Mavs can be significantly better than last year even if they "settle" for Ariza/Deng.

That's my line of thinking... Regardless of how we fill out the rest of our roster, compare these starting lineups:

Calderon
Ellis
Marion
Dirk
Dalembert

vs.

Harris
Ellis
Deng or Ariza
Dirk
Chandler

[CapitanObvious]

Maybe that is why Cubes meet with Lebron's Agent...to bribe them...Evil...I like it.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Underdog

That's my line of thinking... Regardless of how we fill out the rest of our roster, compare these starting lineups:

Calderon
Ellis
Marion
Dirk
Dalembert

vs.

Harris
Ellis
Deng or Ariza
Dirk
Chandler

Much improved defensively. It will be interesting to see what the loss of Calderon does to spacing/ball control. But 2014 will see a better Mavs squad if Health holds.

Not sure I see a high seed though. The West is just that stupid.

I think that team's ceiling is the 4th seed. Assuming OKC, LAC, SA have solid health.

[Underdog]

Is it just me, or do they both have a bit of a "f#@% you, Morey" look in their eyes? It's gonna be awkward if Houston matches...

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by sike

Much improved defensively. It will be interesting to see what the loss of Calderon does to spacing/ball control. But 2014 will see a better Mavs squad if Health holds.

Not sure I see a high seed though. The West is just that stupid.

I think that team's ceiling is the 4th seed. Assuming OKC, LAC, SA have solid health.

Agreed. We arent getting the top tier seeds (1-3). Think we're fighting for 4/5/6 at worst.

[EricaLubarsky]

Been puzzled about why Houston let Parsons walk into free agency, and the only thing that makes sense is that Chandler asked for/demanded it. Perhaps he told them that he would re-sign, perhaps he wanted out. Perhaps he just wanted to get paid and was upset with how little he got. Each one has interesting and different implications.