Official Mavs 2020 Draft/Free Agency Thread - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

KillerLeft · 09-11-2020, 11:13 PM

Didn't see a thread for this (if I missed one, I'll delete) and it seems like this place is turning into a ghost town, day by day. Personally, the shutdown felt like an off season and the bubble has my basketball and Mavs appetite in overdrive.

So, what's the consensus around here regarding the best way forward? If you're the GM, do you hold off to see what Giannis does, or do you go into talent acquisition mode, full steam ahead? Maybe the latter, while carefully keeping yourself within 1-3 realistic steps of clearing space if/when you need it?

If you're ready to kiss Giannis goodbye, are there other 2021 targets that peak your interest? In any event, do you try to find seasoned vets who are on a win-now timeline, or do you stick with dudes in the 22-28 range who can grow with Luka and KP?

This part of the cycle is fascinating to me.

EDIT: I see that there's a whole board option devoted to discussions like this. I feel like this warrants its own thread but I know there are some hardcore rules here. I can't find an option to delete this, but if a mod wants to do it I'll understand.

dirt_dobber · 09-12-2020, 11:19 AM

saw this poll on reddit - it has my top vote getter...

Which low/mid tier freeagent would you want to sign during the off-season?
My guess is that THJ opts in and that leaves us with little cap room.
Who would you want us to see signing?
Paul Millsap 38.1%
Marcus "Morals" Morris 19.7%
Jonas Jerebko 3.1%
Other - please mention names in comments 26.5%
Jeff Teague 4.9%
Wilson Chandler 7.6%

under the "other names mentioned"
Jeremy Grant, Surge Ibaka, Jae Crowder, harkless, hollis-jefferson,

mac222b · 09-12-2020, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

Didn't see a thread for this (if I missed one, I'll delete) and it seems like this place is turning into a ghost town, day by day. Personally, the shutdown felt like an off season and the bubble has my basketball and Mavs appetite in overdrive.

So, what's the consensus around here regarding the best way forward? If you're the GM, do you hold off to see what Giannis does, or do you go into talent acquisition mode, full steam ahead? Maybe the latter, while carefully keeping yourself within 1-3 realistic steps of clearing space if/when you need it?

If you're ready to kiss Giannis goodbye, are there other 2021 targets that peak your interest? In any event, do you try to find seasoned vets who are on a win-now timeline, or do you stick with dudes in the 22-28 range who can grow with Luka and KP?

This part of the cycle is fascinating to me.

EDIT: I see that there's a whole board option devoted to discussions like this. I feel like this warrants its own thread but I know there are some hardcore rules here. I can't find an option to delete this, but if a mod wants to do it I'll understand.

I’m for acquiring talent this summer. If Giannis wants to come here, it’s been proven time and again that cap space can be carved out. GSW alone have done it like three times in the last 5 years or so! Stole Iggy from us that way.

I think the goal with the MLE should be a quality rotation player on a not onerous contract. Personally I like Saric: his 3 pint percentage would improve here and he could be a playmaker with our second unit and would thrive in RCs offense. Problem is, Phoenix may just match if we offer MLE as he’s restricted. And he’s not a great defensive player.

Other option with MLE is giving part of it to guys like Derrick Jones Jr. or our own Trey Burke.

I’m ok with us using the picks in trade if it brings back a difference maker or younger player who will be part of the long term core. Ideally though, we come away from this draft with two young players: maybe one, or both, is ready to contribute right away. That seems to be a trend around the league. Maybe one or both become assets for a big trade down the line. It’s a draft with nice depth.

Worst case scenario seems to be standing pat AND missing out on Giannis. I’m not at all in favour of using MLE if MBT doesn’t like what’s available. I don’t think handing an old guy like Millsap or Baynes, as much as I like both, a 3yr deal just because we need “enforcers” is a good use of resources. I think there is bound to be some player who fits our roster available for part or all of MLE.

KillerLeft · 09-12-2020, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

I’m for acquiring talent this summer. If Giannis wants to come here, it’s been proven time and again that cap space can be carved out. GSW alone have done it like three times in the last 5 years or so! Stole Iggy from us that way.

I think the goal with the MLE should be a quality rotation player on a not onerous contract. Personally I like Saric: his 3 pint percentage would improve here and he could be a playmaker with our second unit and would thrive in RCs offense. Problem is, Phoenix may just match if we offer MLE as he’s restricted. And he’s not a great defensive player.

Other option with MLE is giving part of it to guys like Derrick Jones Jr. or our own Trey Burke.

I’m ok with us using the picks in trade if it brings back a difference maker or younger player who will be part of the long term core. Ideally though, we come away from this draft with two young players: maybe one, or both, is ready to contribute right away. That seems to be a trend around the league. Maybe one or both become assets for a big trade down the line. It’s a draft with nice depth.

Worst case scenario seems to be standing pat AND missing out on Giannis. I’m not at all in favour of using MLE if MBT doesn’t like what’s available. I don’t think handing an old guy like Millsap or Baynes, as much as I like both, a 3yr deal just because we need “enforcers” is a good use of resources. I think there is bound to be some player who fits our roster available for part or all of MLE.

Interesting, thanks.

So, just so I'm clear, are you against ANY players past a certain age, and only interesting in young players, no matter what?

Like, is Jru Holiday too old, for example? Not saying he's available (though he could be) but that's a player who I do think would move the needle for this team. Would you be upset with that based on the timeline of the team, or are you all in for putting the best possible team on the floor for the next two seasons?

mac222b · 09-12-2020, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

Interesting, thanks.

So, just so I'm clear, are you against ANY players past a certain age, and only interesting in young players, no matter what?

Like, is Jru Holiday too old, for example? Not saying he's available (though he could be) but that's a player who I do think would move the needle for this team. Would you be upset with that based on the timeline of the team, or are you all in for putting the best possible team on the floor for the next two seasons?

For me, it’s all relative to cost. I’m not against older players at all, but it depends on what they cost and how they impact future moves. Vets on short deals to act as bridge to compete while we work towards finding another impact “star”, that’s fine. It’s a really difficult line they have to walk: Luka Is ready to compete for titles NOW. But also for the next decade plus. I prefer to put other young vets around him and keep acquiring assets. I think between the two picks and MLE we should be able to accomplish that pretty well. Like if we get someone between the two picks at 18&31 who can give us decent minutes next season and a developmental prospect that would be a win.

Let’s say one of the Bey’s at 18 comes in and plays 15-20 per night off the bench for us. And at 31 Quickley or Cassius Stanley are our developmental guy playing spot minutes but effectively redshirting. Or vice versa— maledon, Poku, Hampton developmental guy at 18 and a Bane or Tre Jones or Nwora vet at 31 plays next season.

Another option is to trade the #18 for a young vet ala Denver with Grant if the opportunity presents. That way we lock up a guy on our timeline and we also aren’t waiting for 2-3 years potentially for the pick to become a viable reliable playoff rotation guy.

I think Jru costs more than he’s worth to us. It would take all our assets- or at least two of Maxi, Seth, DFS and 18&31 and probably 2025 1st. Not worth it to me to lose depth and all those assets. I’d rather save for the eventual Beal move and be in position for a guy like that.

Pick good young players with our picks and ideally get a useable, re-routable player with the MLE if possible. Don’t spend the MLE for the sake of using it ala Delon. I’d rather a short term vet than an albatross.

Dumping the picks for “powder” seems worst case scenario to me. This will be a really weird draft and FA with lots of uncertainty. Unless they have an inside line on a young vet FA like Joe Harris or Christian Wood in FA It’s too much of a gamble to assume someone will want to take our money or that even if they did there would be value to be had in doing so. In fact it’s possible this could lead to an overpay. Like giving an older guy like Gallo too much for too many years.

endrity · 09-12-2020, 05:08 PM

Toronto, GS, Lakers, Clippers, Miami .... all the "cool" spots and big markets which have been mentioned as possible destinations for Giannis seem to have old rosters that would need considerable retooling to have a good team around him. He doesn't just leave Milwaukee without making sure that he has a stable team around him for years to come/

Houston is in the same boat with two stars over 30, and Harden not being his best friend, even though basketball wise they might have the best style to attract him. Plenty of shooters, open space to drive, and other ballhandlers ... though again, Harden might be too much of a ballhandler. Russ would need to leave though.

I really think that basketball sense it makes sense for him in Dallas, Donnie has old connections with him, and KP and him have a basketball friendship as well. For the first time, I think we really have a chance.

I just want to make sure we don't want to over-emphasize the "Euro" connection with Luka, KP or even to Dirk. They are all from three different countries with few links with each other. KP and Luka also played for years in Spain before coming over, whereas Giannis was playing in Greece's second division without ever facing other elite players in the continent. (Side note, this is very similar to Dirk who was also an unkown in Europe, playing Germany's second division, which is even more of a basketball backwater than Greece. He never faced any of the European elite while in Germany). Giannis was also the son Nigerian immigrants to boot, who probably didn't even get a chance to travel outside Greece before getting his citizenship at age 18, in his last year living in Greece. "Europe" is probably a foreign concept for him to begin with. I know he feels partly Greek and partly Nigerian, but "Europe" to him probably means nothing.

If he comes to Dallas, it's because it's a good situation, with a stable franchise, and with basketball people he knows and trusts.

mac222b · 09-12-2020, 05:16 PM

Sorry to write such a long-winded response. I guess my summation is: I see very little down side to picking two young, cheap contract players (we need those!) and using the MLE on a player we target that will be a contributing rotation member on a contract that is moveable in a big future trade or short enough that it doesn’t matter. Ideally at least one of these between the picks and MLE is an athletic wing that can defend and rebound. Ideally the picks are BPA. Eventually, either with cap space or by trade, we add a legit 2nd/3rd option like Boston did with Kemba. Someone like Beal ideally. To take the heat off Luka and score and be the focal point when Luka sits. It’s possible we get this player in the draft(Kira Lewis, Maxey?) but highly unlikely at 18. It’s also highly unlikely we get this player this offseason in FA or trade(Wood, FVV?). So just collect good young players who could be assets used for that future player who gets moved in the next two years.

mac222b · 09-12-2020, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endrity

Toronto, GS, Lakers, Clippers, Miami .... all the "cool" spots and big markets which have been mentioned as possible destinations for Giannis seem to have old rosters that would need considerable retooling to have a good team around him. He doesn't just leave Milwaukee without making sure that he has a stable team around him for years to come/

Houston is in the same boat with two stars over 30, and Harden not being his best friend, even though basketball wise they might have the best style to attract him. Plenty of shooters, open space to drive, and other ballhandlers ... though again, Harden might be too much of a ballhandler. Russ would need to leave though.

I really think that basketball sense it makes sense for him in Dallas, Donnie has old connections with him, and KP and him have a basketball friendship as well. For the first time, I think we really have a chance.

I just want to make sure we don't want to over-emphasize the "Euro" connection with Luka, KP or even to Dirk. They are all from three different countries with few links with each other. KP and Luka also played for years in Spain before coming over, whereas Giannis was playing in Greece's second division without ever facing other elite players in the continent. (Side note, this is very similar to Dirk who was also an unkown in Europe, playing Germany's second division, which is even more of a basketball backwater than Greece. He never faced any of the European elite while in Germany). Giannis was also the son Nigerian immigrants to boot, who probably didn't even get a chance to travel outside Greece before getting his citizenship at age 18, in his last year living in Greece. "Europe" is probably a foreign concept for him to begin with. I know he feels partly Greek and partly Nigerian, but "Europe" to him probably means nothing.

If he comes to Dallas, it's because it's a good situation, with a stable franchise, and with basketball people he knows and trusts.

I agree on one level. On the other hand, he could see a 5 year window with any of GSW, LAC or Miami. Depends on if this move comes through trade or FA signing. Miami would have to give up almost all its young talent to get him unless he says: trade me there or I sign outright. Future low picks, Herro, Robinson, Nunn still isn’t getting it done. And Miami loses all shooting. Bam and Robinson and picks? GS can offer the motherload. Toronto would be building around Giannis, Siakam, OG and FVV presumably so he would have to trust Masai/Nurse to fill in around the edges. LAC could sign and trade Harrell, Zubac, Shamet, Lou Williams on a value contract and some scattered picks. Pretty meh.

endrity · 09-12-2020, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

I agree on one level. On the other hand, he could see a 5 year window with any of GSW, LAC or Miami. Depends on if this move comes through trade or FA signing. Miami would have to give up almost all its young talent to get him unless he says: trade me there or I sign outright. Future low picks, Herro, Robinson, Nunn still isn’t getting it done. And Miami loses all shooting. Bam and Robinson and picks? GS can offer the motherload. Toronto would be building around Giannis, Siakam, OG and FVV presumably so he would have to trust Masai/Nurse to fill in around the edges. LAC could sign and trade Harrell, Zubac, Shamet, Lou Williams on a value contract and some scattered picks. Pretty meh.

Steph is 33 next summer and Klay will be 31. As good as those guys are, and as good as shooting ages, Giannis would be a fool to invest his prime with guys that will be on the downside of their career. Most of the other situations are similar as well, with key stars over 30.

In Dallas he would have KP at the same age, and Luka being 4 years younger. I think that is a tremendous asset if he is thinking about consecutive opportunities to win a ring, not just a few runs.

KillerLeft · 09-12-2020, 06:23 PM

I agree that GS is not an option. Unless one of the LA teams decides to completely overhaul their roster to get him, which is exceedingly unlikely but always possible (LA as a location will forever be the ultimate advantage) then I see three options for Giannis, in no particular order:

1. Milwaukee
2. Dallas
3. Miami

mac222b · 09-12-2020, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endrity

Steph is 33 next summer and Klay will be 31. As good as those guys are, and as good as shooting ages, Giannis would be a fool to invest his prime with guys that will be on the downside of their career. Most of the other situations are similar as well, with key stars over 30.

In Dallas he would have KP at the same age, and Luka being 4 years younger. I think that is a tremendous asset if he is thinking about consecutive opportunities to win a ring, not just a few runs.

Fair enough. You may be right. I could see them maybe trading Dray if they did get Freak. Try to get back a couple younger pieces.

KillerLeft · 09-12-2020, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Fair enough. You may be right. I could see them maybe trading Dray if they did get Freak. Try to get back a couple younger pieces.

Oh, it for sure makes sense for THEM. Smartest possible thing they could do. Maximizes Steph's career and bridges the gap to post Steph relevance. I just don't get how you're pining for that if you're Giannis, unless he's just a huge fan of the bay area, I guess. And, if Milwaukee for some reason shifts into trade mode for him, I feel like they'll get much better offers than what GS can provide.

mac222b · 09-12-2020, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

Oh, it for sure makes sense for THEM. Smartest possible thing they could do. Maximizes Steph's career and bridges the gap to post Steph relevance. I just don't get how you're pining for that if you're Giannis, unless he's just a huge fan of the bay area, I guess. And, if Milwaukee for some reason shifts into trade mode for him, I feel like they'll get much better offers than what GS can provide.

They have the #2 pick in a weak at the top draft and a top 3 wolves pick next season in a strong draft and Wiggins, who is useable, as salary match. What if they really like Wiseman or Devi and figure they can still be decent with Wiggins and the rest of remaining cast? Or they could quickly pivot to rebuild and sell Middleton and Lopez as well to the highest bidders. Bottom out and have two top 10 picks next season and more on the way for Middleton. I’m not saying they would or should. But they would have options.

KillerLeft · 09-12-2020, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

They have the #2 pick in a weak at the top draft and a top 3 wolves pick next season in a strong draft and Wiggins, who is useable, as salary match. What if they really like Wiseman or Devi and figure they can still be decent with Wiggins and the rest of remaining cast? Or they could quickly pivot to rebuild and sell Middleton and Lopez as well to the highest bidders. Bottom out and have two top 10 picks next season and more on the way for Middleton. I’m not saying they would or should. But they would have options.

I'm with you - those picks are valuable. I think that's a good haul, but idk...I feel like if I'm Milwaukee and I decide I have no choice but to trade the guy I'm trying to get a haul that's ridiculous.

You'd rather get what OKC got for George than what NYK got for KP, right?

sefant77 · 09-12-2020, 10:14 PM

The Wolves pick next year is top-3 protected, so actually it hasnt huuge value, considering the Wolves are going to add #1 this year or trade the pick for a veteran

sefant77 · 09-13-2020, 09:18 PM

Give me James Johnson as shortterm solution for 2-3 years. Thats the guy we need for the bigger wings and toughness. He was co-captain with the Heat but then they moved on from him when he came little bit out of shape into camp. But he had pretty solid games with the Grizzlies after the trade.

And in other news:

Quote:

The thing is, James Johnson holds a second-degree black belt in karate, and he's also undefeated in seven MMA matches as well as 20 kickboxing matches.

https://www.bardown.com/ben-simmons-...-off-1.1064026

Edit: Ah crap he has a player option, he wont walk away from that money. Too bad. But would trade Wright+Jackson for him.

KillerLeft · 09-19-2020, 08:05 PM

Seems like Buddy Hield is about to be extremely available. I think I can predict the answer, but would he do anything for anyone here?

mac222b · 09-20-2020, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

Seems like Buddy Hield is about to be extremely available. I think I can predict the answer, but would he do anything for anyone here?

He is an elite shooter. The thought off pairing him with Luka offensively is might tempting. I wonder about his defensive on/off numbers. With his contract I would only trade junk for him essentially. He’s like a turbo charged Seth only making 3x as much. I think some team might offer something better than we would, a team that has trouble attracting FA but wants an off-season splash or just to mix things up.

sefant77 · 09-20-2020, 08:13 AM

He is a slightly better Seth who earns 3x as much and has an ego

KillerLeft · 09-20-2020, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

He is a slightly better Seth who earns 3x as much and has an ego

Well, it might be true that he's only slightly better than Curry at shooting, as in whether or not the shots go in, but he's way, way better than Curry at getting shots off. That's Curry's biggest weakness, to me.

Incidentally, this is one reason the Mavs like THJ more than they like Curry. I've heard Cuban and Carlisle both rave about Hardaway's quick release.

Look at what Duncan Robinson is doing for the Heat right now. Curry could hit shots at that same clip, for sure, but Robinson is sooooo good at getting them off in situations where Curry couldn't.

I agree that the ego could be a problem.

sefant77 · 09-20-2020, 04:38 PM

Im not just interested in his price tag.

I think its more important to find guard who are able to defend and with that you find more minutes for bargain Seth (with his questionable defense) without killing the team defense

KillerLeft · 09-20-2020, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Im not just interested in his price tag.

I think its more important to find guard who are able to defend and with that you find more minutes for bargain Seth (with his questionable defense) without killing the team defense

Yeah, I can buy into him not being a help on defense. And maybe you look elsewhere for that reason.

I DO think he could be the guy who does what THJ AND Burke do, only in one player.

But yeah, definitely not a solution to every problem they have.

tap2390 · 09-21-2020, 05:34 AM

Mavs should be interested only if the #12 pick is involved.

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-21-2020, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Mavs should be interested only if the #12 pick is involved.

Come on. THJ/18 for Hield is the starting point. No way they'd give away the 12th pick just to get rid of Hield.

mac222b · 09-21-2020, 12:00 PM

[QUOTE=DevinHarriswillstart;1480062]Come on. THJ/18 for Hield is the starting point. No way they'd give away the 12th pick just to get rid of Hield.[/QUOT

I’m with you. I think Hield is a bad contract but that some team like Detroit that can’t attract free agents and needs shooting would consider him their “free agent signing”. I also think if we offered THJ and 18 they say yes without hesitation.

Scoobay · 09-21-2020, 12:23 PM

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/9...ltics-playoffs

Not directly relevant, but a great read on a guy who pretty much came out of nowhere. I wish the mavs had this kind of player development and scouting.

SMC0007 · 09-21-2020, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Come on. THJ/18 for Hield is the starting point. No way they'd give away the 12th pick just to get rid of Hield.

But we would give the 18th pick to take on Buddys contract?

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-21-2020, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

But we would give the 18th pick to take on Buddys contract?

I'm not saying I definitely do that, but some people are way off on the value of Hield.

And it still surprises me how many people don't understand what kind of money players are making in today's NBA. 4/100 for Hield isn't that ridiculous.

BPo001 · 09-21-2020, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoobay

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/9...ltics-playoffs

Not directly relevant, but a great read on a guy who pretty much came out of nowhere. I wish the mavs had this kind of player development and scouting.

Barea and DFS were both undrafted. I’d say we did pretty well with both of them. I think the Mavs are doing just fine in player development. Coaches can only do so much. The players have to put in the work too.

SMC0007 · 09-21-2020, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'm not saying I definitely do that, but some people are way off on the value of Hield.

And it still surprises me how many people don't understand what kind of money players are making in today's NBA. 4/100 for Hield isn't that ridiculous.

Sure. I think it's more about having cap room when we need it and Hield doesn't make us any better defensively or significantly better anywhere.

tap2390 · 09-21-2020, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Come on. THJ/18 for Hield is the starting point. No way they'd give away the 12th pick just to get rid of Hield.

IMO you are way overestimating his value around the league. He's starting his 4/100 deal next season, known somewhat as a malcontent, and doesn't bring great defense. A team desperate for shooting may decide to pull the trigger, but he won't be their top option. Even with contracts being equal I'd take Tim Hardaway Jr. for chemistry and team mentality reasons. Add in the contract and the Kings will have to pay to get rid of him or take on a large 3-4 year deal (I could see a move for Al Horford or Tobias Harris, etc.).

mac222b · 09-21-2020, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

IMO you are way overestimating his value around the league. He's starting his 4/100 deal next season, known somewhat as a malcontent, and doesn't bring great defense. A team desperate for shooting may decide to pull the trigger, but he won't be their top option. Even with contracts being equal I'd take Tim Hardaway Jr. for chemistry and team mentality reasons. Add in the contract and the Kings will have to pay to get rid of him or take on a large 3-4 year deal (I could see a move for Al Horford or Tobias Harris, etc.).

I get where you’re coming from and you may even be right. I think there is bound to be one team that will overpay for a shooter of his caliber, he also has draft pedigree and can create a little for himself. I agree about THJ. Relative to Hield we could either let him expire or re-sign him for let’s say 13m per year and he’s a better value. 25m is a lot for Hield who I think shoukdve topped out as a 15m, Joe Harris or Davis Bertans level player most likely. No one in the league would pay either of those dudes 4/100m because they are only elite at one thing and are average defenders at best and below average playmakers. Shoot, we can just draft the best shooter available at #18 like Tyrell Terry and there’s a decent chance they give you 70% of what Hield does at a fraction of the cost.

EricaLubarsky · 09-21-2020, 03:19 PM

This debate is ridiculous, but so is this offseason

We basically have no trade assets.

What we have
18th/31st pick - but we can't trade the 18th until after we've drafted
3million in cash

That's it.

We can't trade:
any first rounders until 2025
our second rounder this year (it's gone to the Warriors)
use cap to absorb bad contracts (we're functionally over the cap)

We really don't have good contracts to trade. We're very top heavy on contracts so we have the big contracts of KP/THJ, untradable guys like Doncic, and then not a lot of ballast/beneficial contracts to match/sweeten any deals. Every trade I look at, I just fo go to contracts and we just don't have the contracts to match and we're over the cap. If we trade with a team

I honestly don't think we can even make a trade if we wanted to. Maybe something involving our 18th/31st, but any trade involving the 31st pick will have to wait until November, because then it becomes rights to a player and not a first rounder.

mac222b · 09-21-2020, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Barea and DFS were both undrafted. I’d say we did pretty well with both of them. I think the Mavs are doing just fine in player development. Coaches can only do so much. The players have to put in the work too.

I read somewhere recently that DJJ was a priority UFA for us and he just chose Miami instead. So we are on the right track, Isaiah Robys aside. I still think there is a strong chance that DJJ is our guy with 7.5m of MLE and we bank on his shot being fixable, just like DFS. Gives us an elite athlete that can defend and fill the lane on the break.

KillerLeft · 09-21-2020, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

IMO you are way overestimating his value around the league. He's starting his 4/100 deal next season, known somewhat as a malcontent, and doesn't bring great defense. A team desperate for shooting may decide to pull the trigger, but he won't be their top option. Even with contracts being equal I'd take Tim Hardaway Jr. for chemistry and team mentality reasons. Add in the contract and the Kings will have to pay to get rid of him or take on a large 3-4 year deal (I could see a move for Al Horford or Tobias Harris, etc.).

This is all true, but some of it might change significantly when you get him out of that hell-hole of a franchise. In other words, maybe he has reason to be a malcontent, and maybe he's not playing very hard on defense because he doesn't think there's point while he's there. (I'm not defending that, if it's the case, just pointing out that it's possible)

Think about the 2018-2019 narrative on Jimmy Butler vs. the reality of today.

Think about how much better THJ looks here than he did trying to carry the Knicks.

I'm not trying to claim any of this, necessarily, just pointing out that a team out there might look at the dude and see an upgrade to their team, not just a bad contract.

I know it seems like everyone can shoot now, and that shooting is easy to find these days, but that's a relative statement, really. In a way, the fact that everyone is shooting high efficiency shots means that you truly have to have elite shooters to get ahead of the pack and win.

There are really only a handful of players in the game who can shoot a high volume of 3's and make them at an efficient clip. Hield IS one of them. He had the 3rd best shooting season in the league this year, imo, after Duncan Robinson and Lillard. Now, obviously, he doesn't compare to Lilliard, who's doing so much on the floor that it's absolutely AMAZING that he's able to shoot such a high percentage, but Hield is asked to do a much wider variety of things than Robinson, on the other hand.

For the Mavericks, THJ doesn't even come close to being this type of offensive weapon, honestly, though I do think he's underrated by Dallas fans and I totally agree with your points regarding his fit in the culture, team-first attitude, stability, etc.

And Curry shoots a higher percentage, but quite literally can't get enough shots off for the percentage to mean much. At his size (and possibly this is because his release is too slow, too) he gets run off of the line far too easily, imo. It's frustrating. I love that he is one of the few players who still seems comfortable in the mid-range, but I don't love that he's not really an effective passer once he floors the ball, and to be honest, if he's not getting the shots off then he's not doing what they brought him here to do.

I think Hield is much better as both a shooter and as a handler/playmaker (when he's willing) than either of those players. Even if he doesn't improve their defense, I can see combining (and improving on) the strengths of THJ, Curry and even Burke into ONE, high minute player could open up other places in the rotation for different solutions to those problems.

Just food for thought. I know it's a little out of the box, and I could be woefully mistaken.

EDIT: I suck at sharing stat tables, but I just did some digging, and here's what I found. There were only 10 players who attempted (were able to attempt) over 500 3's this year. A much smaller handful was able to get off over 600. The most efficient trio of them were:

Duncan Robinson (.446 on 606 attempts)
Damian Lillard (.401 on 674 attempts)
Buddy Hield (.394 on 688 attempts)

Now, I listed them in order of percentage, but I would argue that Robinson is asked to do the least of those three while he's on the court. Either way, I think that's the top tier of shooters in the league.

Side note: I admit that after checking these stats out, THJ would probably be my 4th favorite shooting season, at the top of tier 2. On 513 attempts he shot .398, 4th among those with 500 attempts or more. But, idk...those extra 100-200 attempts are kind of a game changer, imo. Also, an argument could be made (not sure it's one to which I subscribe) that THJ's fine shooting season was an outlier, and that he's in danger of reverting next year.

mac222b · 09-21-2020, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

This debate is ridiculous, but so is this offseason

We basically have no trade assets.

What we have
18th/31st pick - but we can't trade the 18th until after we've drafted
3million in cash

That's it.

We can't trade:
any first rounders until 2025
our second rounder this year (it's gone to the Warriors)
use cap to absorb bad contracts (we're functionally over the cap)

We really don't have good contracts to trade. We're very top heavy on contracts so we have the big contracts of KP/THJ, untradable guys like Doncic, and then not a lot of ballast/beneficial contracts to match/sweeten any deals. Every trade I look at, I just fo go to contracts and we just don't have the contracts to match and we're over the cap. If we trade with a team

I honestly don't think we can even make a trade if we wanted to. Maybe something involving our 18th/31st, but any trade involving the 31st pick will have to wait until November, because then it becomes rights to a player and not a first rounder.

31 is first pick of second round. And we can agree to a deal in principle if someone wants us to draft at 18 for them. Not saying that will happen. Personally, I’d like to see them use the picks, assuming there are players they actually like. Worst case they suck and you dump them relatively painlessly. Best case you get a low cost starter.

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-21-2020, 04:29 PM

Hield is exactly the type of third best player this team needs. I'm also skeptical of the contract, sure, but man have some people become greedy and a bit disillusioned. A reliable 20 ppg scorer who can shoot lights out outside of having Luka and Kp makes us a contender IMO.

We need a player that can carry the burden when Luka/KP can't. I still think that's more important than getting some scrappy defenders which is less hard to acquire than a reliable third guy.

What happens if/when KP gets injured again next playoffs? Luka can't carry us to a ring in the West by himself.

EricaLubarsky · 09-21-2020, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

31 is first pick of second round. And we can agree to a deal in principle if someone wants us to draft at 18 for them. Not saying that will happen. Personally, I’d like to see them use the picks, assuming there are players they actually like. Worst case they suck and you dump them relatively painlessly. Best case you get a low cost starter.

Sorry, I meant the 18th pick.

31st we can trade right now.

sefant77 · 09-21-2020, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Hield is exactly the type of third best player this team needs. I'm also skeptical of the contract, sure, but man have some people become greedy and a bit disillusioned. A reliable 20 ppg scorer who can shoot lights out outside of having Luka and Kp makes us a contender IMO.

We need a player that can carry the burden when Luka/KP can't. I still think that's more important than getting some scrappy defenders which is less hard to acquire than a reliable third guy.

What happens if/when KP gets injured again next playoffs? Luka can't carry us to a ring in the West by himself.

Why not just re-signing THJ for 100m?

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_...&p2yrfrom=2020

Yes, this team need a 3rd star/scorer.

But this guy cant be a guard with a bad defense. Not with Luka on the team, who need to take his breather at the defensive end. We need defense (specially perimeter/wing defense) MUCH more than offense

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-22-2020, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Why not just re-signing THJ for 100m?

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_...&p2yrfrom=2020

Yes, this team need a 3rd star/scorer.

But this guy cant be a guard with a bad defense. Not with Luka on the team, who need to take his breather at the defensive end. We need defense (specially perimeter/wing defense) MUCH more than offense

Hield is objectively a better player than THJ, and I like Tim.

I agree about the defense, but upgrading our defense can't overcome another KP injury. Team needs a serious insurance plan in case that happens again, or we're just wasting Luka's time here.