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Old 10-31-2004, 01:56 AM   #81
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

If Harris wins ROY and Terry or Stackhouse win 6th man, this team will be so freakin' amazing. Hopefully they win the championship, but that's lookin' too far ahead with a new team.
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Old 10-31-2004, 01:58 AM   #82
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

if devin is starting.. so should drew henson =]

so you guys are making comparisons with jason terry and bobby jackson and yes these are somewhat valid because of their simliar playing styles and potential effectiveness on the both sides of the court providing that 'spark' off the bench. but the last thing i heard out of sacramento is that one of the problems they are having in terms of whining from players is that bobby jackson is not very happy with his role of coming off the bench and playing behind bibby..
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Old 10-31-2004, 01:59 AM   #83
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

After seeing Dwayne Wade, Kirk Hinrich, and T.J Ford as rookie PGs last year I am just not worried. Devin is in that type of league. None of those guys had a guy like Nowitzki to go to either, it is a great situation for a PG.
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Old 10-31-2004, 02:05 AM   #84
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

Quote:
After seeing Dwayne Wade, Kirk Hinrich, and T.J Ford as rookie PGs last year I am just not worried. Devin is in that type of league. None of those guys had a guy like Nowitzki to go to either, it is a great situation for a PG.
True, these players also didn't have a Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse, or Marquis Daniels who all possess starter-like talent accompanying him in the backcourt...
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Old 10-31-2004, 02:07 AM   #85
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

Quote:
Originally posted by: alby
if devin is starting.. so should drew henson =]

so you guys are making comparisons with jason terry and bobby jackson and yes these are somewhat valid because of their simliar playing styles and potential effectiveness on the both sides of the court providing that 'spark' off the bench. but the last thing i heard out of sacramento is that one of the problems they are having in terms of whining from players is that bobby jackson is not very happy with his role of coming off the bench and playing behind bibby..
He's on record saying that he'd like to start somewhere, but I don't think this is the source of his chemistry issues. I believe he and Bibby are pretty good friends.

His issue is that he's underpaid reletively speaking and by the time his contract runs out (two years from now), he'll be in his mid 30's. He's going to ask the team not to pick up his option at the end of the season.
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Old 10-31-2004, 03:28 AM   #86
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

And he has been a backup for a long time now too. JT only has two years on his deal, if it doesn't work out he can be moved. I wish he would become the longterm 3rd guard in Dallas. Devin, Quis, and JT as the combo guy off the bench sounds great on paper.
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Old 10-31-2004, 08:54 AM   #87
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

Nelson said at the beginning of camp that even though he set players in positions early there would still be competition for those same positions.

There is no telling what Nelson will do and the fact that he has two point guards that he feels comfortable starting is a luxury that Nelson loves. Remember what he did with Nash and Van Exel? But also keep in mind when I say that it is because of talent, not experience that I am refering too. It's hard to compare the effectiveness of Nash and Exel to Devin and Jason.

But if Nelson feels Harris should start then I'm down with it. It gives Harris needed minutes to get his game NBA ready, and the fact that both players came into a new system just tells me how much talent Harris actually has.....
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Old 10-31-2004, 09:16 AM   #88
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

Quote:
Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Quote:
Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
This is just a shot in the dark, but I think that Harris may have gotten the job because of his defense. He really plays with energy on the defensive end.
There is only one reason I see for this. Harris caught on to the offense faster and has been running the offense a little more fluidly. That is all.
I wouldn't be so sure Erica. Harris led the preseason with 22 steals. He had more steals then such tough defenders as Artest, Dwayne Wade, etc. I mean if you think about it, Nellie has to prove this team can play defense. JT can play some tough D too, but it's not ridiculous to say that Harris won the job, or tipped it in his favor, because of tough D.
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Old 10-31-2004, 09:33 AM   #89
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

I haven't read everyone's replies just yet, but what this does do is throw the Mavs into a bigger minutes situation than what most of us originall thought. Why? How many minutes were you projecting for Harris going into pre-season? .....10-15 a game in the regular season? If he's starting, I see no reason to believe that his minutes won't at least approach 30.

So, let's take a look....If Harris is eating 30 minutes a game at the PG, that leaves:
18 minutes as backup at the point
48 minutes at the 2 guard
48 minutes at the SF
and maybe
5 minutes at the backup PF spot maybe...( I did hear an interview where Nellie mentioned that JHo will play some PF minutes)

These minutes are to be distributed between: Stack, Fin, Quis, JHo, and JT. I think we all agree that at least 4 of these guys are NBA starter quality players. Personally, I'm not sold on Quis yet only because he did what he did for such a short period of time. I'm also assuming that Dickau is just an emergency backup guy for now only because it could lessen the numbers crunch a bit between the 5 SG's/PF's. Also, I'm assuming that they're all healthy relatively soon.

So, there's at most 119 minutes UNLESS Nellie decides to cut into the Centers minutes and go small even more often than what we're expecting. With all the centers on the roster, I hope that does not occur.

Let's go ahead and throw out some numbers.

Howard SF - 23 minutes; PF - 5 minutes
Finley SG - 14 minutes; SF - 14 minutes
Terry PG - 18 minutes;
Stack SF - 11 minutes; SG - 14 minutes
Quis SG - 20 minutes

Basically, you're in a numbers crunch. The Mavs would like to play Terry at SG but who's minutes does he take? Surely the Mavs want to limit Finley's SF minutes as much as possible, but both he and Stack are a liability at the 3. One or both of them has to back up Howard. Perhaps Terry's numbers are slashed even further and the minutes at the backup PG spot are either given to dickau or Quis? Probably not at this point. Perhaps Stack's minutes drop, but I don't see that occurring initially because the Mavs would like to see him playing well. If they have to ship someone off, Stack has a very friendly contract if he's playing well. So, the Mavs want him playing at the top of his game. The same goes with Terry. So, at the very least, they have to have enough minutes to show that they can play this game at a high level for a winning team. By doing so with Stack and Terry, don't you then have to limit Fin's minutes to around 28 or so unless you just want to knock Quis down to the teens and make him prove that he can out-play some of the others in the rotation.

Can the Mavs keep everyone happy?
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Old 10-31-2004, 09:46 AM   #90
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

uh...the minutes situation has been a problem ever since they brought in stackhouse..there are too many players at the SG/SF position and there are too many guys that feel the need to shoot the ball 20 times a night

nothing new..somebody's feelings are going to be hurt..that's for sure
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Old 10-31-2004, 09:52 AM   #91
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

The minutes situation was already difficult (which I stated in my above post), BUT it now becomes even more difficult now that Harris has become the starter. What was once perhaps possible really doesn't look quite as possible with the most recent news.

And don't 'uh' me.
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Old 10-31-2004, 10:07 AM   #92
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

uh, murph, I said something very similar to this on the prevous page. So I obviously agree...all supposed line up plans seemingly just got jacked. Unless Nellie is going to go so far as to simply give JT ONLY minutes we originally had going to Harris...but I cant see him doing this to a player the quality of JT.
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Old 10-31-2004, 10:10 AM   #93
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

I expect this to be a temporary move until Terry fully recovers from his wisdom teeth removal. Don will change back to Terry when he no longer has to take medication for the recovery. As we saw with Walker last year, it takes a lot for Nellie to remove a talented veteran from the starting lineup, unless he is deemed 6th man from the beginning. Its the same thing with Fin.

Quote:
• Point guard Jason Terry has been a bit sluggish since he had four teeth extracted Tuesday. "He's still on Vicodin, and I think, with some of the turnovers that he has in practice, he looks like he's on something," Avery Johnson said. "So we're hoping that stuff wears off. He barely can open his eyes. But I guess if you have four wisdom teeth taken out, and one or two are impacted, I guess I'd be a little dizzy, too."

• Coach Don Nelson left practice early Saturday to attend the Breeders' Cup in Grand Prairie.


Star Telegram Article
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Old 10-31-2004, 10:15 AM   #94
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

Quote:
Coach Don Nelson left practice early Saturday to attend the Breeders' Cup in Grand Prairie.
Quote:
The good news is the preseason is over. Hopefully, the next four days we will practice and not have any days off. It would be good news if I have all my guys for practice even if they are not 100% healthy. I think they need to at least move the ball around and play together.
I guess pre-season isnt too important....

oh yeah, huh: AJ was brought in to run practices.
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Old 10-31-2004, 11:04 AM   #95
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

Do you think there is any way we could trade for Artest? Trade Terry, Stackhouse or Henderson, maybe Bradley for Artest and whatever other players needed to match.
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Old 10-31-2004, 11:53 AM   #96
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

Right now, I am not gunna worry about minutes becasue for all we know, there might always be an injury. To start the season, we wont have stack/quis so it is a good thing that we have 4 other guys who are capable of playing 30 minutes per game. I see the opening day minutes at the gaurds/Sf spots going something like this:

Harris 32/Terry 8/Dickau 8
Finley 21/ Terry 27
Howard 34/ Finley 14

Everyone will play big minutes for now until we can get evertyone healthy.... but there is a chance that we wont get every one healthy. The easiest minutes to take away are Dickaus, which go immediatly to JET. Howard will lose 12-15 minutes and Terry will only play about 28. Lets say finley plays about 32 and Harris plays 30. That gives marquis and stackhouse up to 35 minutes to split as they try to get healthier, but it is a process. They wont be rushed back. We are in good shape right now condering we have had 2 of our SGs go down (one starter and one 6th man)
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Old 10-31-2004, 11:58 AM   #97
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

Quote:
Originally posted by: DubOverdose
Do you think there is any way we could trade for Artest? Trade Terry, Stackhouse or Henderson, maybe Bradley for Artest and whatever other players needed to match.
Why do you already want to trade Terry? He has played well in this preseason and he is thrilled to be in Dallas. Also, what has stackhouse done that he deserved to be trraded and why would you want to bring in a team cancer without playing a single preseason game. I dont think it would be wise to give up on Terry/stackhouse befoer they play a game for us.
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Old 10-31-2004, 12:04 PM   #98
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

The answer to the minutes crunch will have Nelson playing full-court pres & running a a frenetic pace for 48 minutes. The players will be so tired they'll be begging to get a blow... with all the running Mavs will average at least 124 points per game so there will be plenty of shots too.


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Old 10-31-2004, 12:04 PM   #99
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

I don't see any reason Indiana would want to trade a cornerstone of there franchise for a terry or a stackhouse.
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Old 10-31-2004, 12:08 PM   #100
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

the cornerstone is O'Neal. Artest is a distraction.

Stack gives them scoring and Terry gives them a better PG option than Tinsley.
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Old 10-31-2004, 12:08 PM   #101
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

Its probably difficult to just dribble on Vicodin
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Old 10-31-2004, 12:13 PM   #102
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

Quote:
Originally posted by: FreshJive
Its probably difficult to just dribble on Vicodin
True. We might be playing too much into the decision for Harris to start. Maybe it is only because Terry isnt quite ready to play big minutes. For all we know, Terry will take the starting spot back in a week.
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Old 10-31-2004, 01:59 PM   #103
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

Some thoughts after a night of rumination:
1) Given the reports that JT's been struggling through a vicodin induced stupor the last few days I'm not yet sold that this is a permanent move, which is to say that if Devin struggles it wouldn't surprise me to see JT back in the starting lineup, but at the same time if Devin's not being clearly outplayed by JT I think the move will stick.

2) I was thinking the other day what a completely ideal situation this is for Devin. To come into the league as a high lottery pick on a playoff, and perhaps even chamipionship caliber team where he'll be given the opportunity to compete for minutes and a starting spot with a very talented, though not entrenched veteran like JT, and where he'll be mentored by the likes of AJ and Nellie. Say what you will about Nellie but if there's one thing I trust him to do it's develop the talents of a young perimeter player. I can't believe Devin would be getting this opportunity if he weren't really taking advantage of the generous providence fate has thrown his way, and accordingly I can't help but feel confident about his being a cornerstone of the franchise's future.

3) Re: the minutes crunch. If any of our 1/2/3's make a push for more than 30 mpg, especially the rook, and all the guys are healthy, we will definitely be in a major minutes crunch, but at this point we don't know which, if any, of the guys will be making that push to be dominant in the rotation. It's tempting to get into ideas of how the problem that might occur could be alleviated with Stack and Terry trade ideas, but until it becomes apparent that the problem actually exists, and until it becomes clear just what form the problem takes (the possibilties are wide open) I'm inclined to just continue to be happy about the depth and leave it at that.

4) I really hope JT takes this well, because if he can come around to being okay with this I think there's a very good chance it could be a great thing for him. There's a history of sixth man combo guards like JT being real boons for teams with championship aspirations. I think some of that is because when a player really embraces the sixth man role it helps them in a way to focus in on playing their game, which can be difficult for tweener types in general, and which by my reading has probably been JT's biggest hurdle in the preseason - just being himself. If JT's starting for the Mavs he's Steve Nash's replacement, and mimicking Steve isn't really something he's well suited to do in kind (though I do think the caliber of his contribution can be quite close when you factor in the upgrade he represents on defense). But if he's coming off the bench he's Nick 2.0, and in so far as Nick was primarily a scorer with pg skills as a Mav, that could very well be right up JT's alley. And when you factor in that JT's a more efficient scorer and a considerably better defender than Nick, I think it could very well be right up the Mavs' alley as well.
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Old 10-31-2004, 02:20 PM   #104
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

Quote:
Originally posted by: Mavs Rule
I expect this to be a temporary move until Terry fully recovers from his wisdom teeth removal.

• Coach Don Nelson left practice early Saturday to attend the Breeders' Cup in Grand Prairie.


Star Telegram Article[/quote]

That wisdom tooth removal thing is B.S. .... anyone who has ever had them taken out knows that after 4-5 days, everything is ok and there is no risk of dry socket or anything like that.
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Old 10-31-2004, 02:22 PM   #105
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

would J.T. be 6th man or Stack? They are both natural 2 gaurds.
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Old 10-31-2004, 06:57 PM   #106
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

I went out the same night I got my wisdom teeth out. Well I guess people heal differently.
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Old 10-31-2004, 07:04 PM   #107
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

Yeah wisdom tooth removal is hardly a big thing. Unless his teeth were all messed up and it was a full on surgery or something..but even then i dont see how recovering would take more than a week.
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Old 10-31-2004, 07:20 PM   #108
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

I had my wisdom teeth out when I was sixteen and it was a huge pain in the ass. My face was swollen up like a chimpmunk so badly I wouldn't even go out in public for three days, and mine weren't even impacted, which apparently a couple of JT's were. And it's not just recovery from the surgery that's getting him, for those who don't seem to have read very carefully. It's that he's loaded up on painkillers.
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Old 10-31-2004, 07:26 PM   #109
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

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Originally posted by: HexNBA
Yeah wisdom tooth removal is hardly a big thing. Unless his teeth were all messed up and it was a full on surgery or something..but even then i dont see how recovering would take more than a week.
His teeth HAD to be completely messed up or he wouldn't had the surgery done a week before the season started. Especially with a rookie playing behind him on the depth chart - a rookie that was playing awfully well. I'm sure those teeth had to be in awful shape for Terry to have it done now.
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Old 10-31-2004, 07:54 PM   #110
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

I hopte JT isn't addicted to vicodin. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
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Old 10-31-2004, 08:18 PM   #111
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

Devin Harris starting proves one thing that all positions were open for competition. Besides the incredible training camp Devin has had what DJ has done is amazing? DJ, a guy that was supposed to be on the IR all season is now the backup to Erick Dampier. The guy has only played basketball for four years. Devin was supposed to be NBA polished anyway, what DJ has done is far more impressive at least to me.

The only troublesome thing to me is that we traded a starter Antoine Walker for a sub Jason Terry. Know that trade makes zero sense. Sure Walker couldn't hit the broadside of a barn but he did what ever nellie asked of him. And he didn't complain through the media even once.

Real quick the mavs can be the first team since the 80's bucks to lead the league in scoring four straight seasons. Dampier to me has the most to prove. Can he repeat his 12 pt 12 rebound 2 block season or will he revert to being average. Some other quick thoughts when is the last time a team had four guys with a 7ft 5 inch wingspan. Finally Happy Halloween!
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Old 10-31-2004, 08:34 PM   #112
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

I dont question and of the deals the mavs made this summer. I can honestly say that I liked each and every one of them.

In the walker trade, you chose not to mention the additional players. We gave away Delk who had no role on this team and had 3 yeard left on his contract. We recieved Alan Henderson who will play backup PF this year and we got a 1st round draft pick that helped us land a starting Center.

So it is pretty clear that Delk for Hendu/1st is a good trade. Now lets look at the AW for JT part.

Antoine Walker is not a bad player or a bad guy. He wasnt a team cancer and he did do what was asked of him. I will give you that. But he did not fit in well with this team. He simply played the wrong position.... DIRK IS OUR POWER FOWARD. And that is how it needs to be, I dont want Dirk to paly Center because of walker and i certainly dont want Walker playing center.

And just becasue Terry isnt the opening day starter doesnt mean that he wont contribute to this team. I expect Terry to be great this year. He will play good D, he can score, pass, play the 1 or 2, and just give us energy. He might do all of that as a starter or he will do it coming of the bench.

I do not regret the trade for a second.
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Old 10-31-2004, 08:40 PM   #113
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

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The only troublesome thing to me is that we traded a starter Antoine Walker for a sub Jason Terry. Know that trade makes zero sense. Sure Walker couldn't hit the broadside of a barn but he did what ever nellie asked of him. And he didn't complain through the media even once.
You have got to be kidding me. Walker didn't fit this team on or off the court. His +/- was by far the worst out of all our rotation players. He didn't even come close to deserving a spot in the Mavs' starting lineup. He DID complain through the media (selective memory problems, jayC? Remember that whole "I can't give you anything in 18 minutes" B.S.?). He pouted on the bench. Factor in the fact that even with this change in the starting lineup one of our two main pg's is still a rookie who has yet to play an NBA game, and I'm absolutely lost as to how you could view the Atl trade as making zero sense.
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Old 10-31-2004, 09:04 PM   #114
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I remember Nellie went ballistic because Walker complained about minutes throught the media.
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Old 10-31-2004, 09:39 PM   #115
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I do not regret the trade for a second.
I would not have regretted Walker for a 1 pound bag of rice, and a small box of frosted flakes.
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Old 10-31-2004, 09:50 PM   #116
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

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Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Some thoughts after a night of rumination:

4) I really hope JT takes this well, because if he can come around to being okay with this I think there's a very good chance it could be a great thing for him. There's a history of sixth man combo guards like JT being real boons for teams with championship aspirations. I think some of that is because when a player really embraces the sixth man role it helps them in a way to focus in on playing their game, which can be difficult for tweener types in general, and which by my reading has probably been JT's biggest hurdle in the preseason - just being himself. If JT's starting for the Mavs he's Steve Nash's replacement, and mimicking Steve isn't really something he's well suited to do in kind (though I do think the caliber of his contribution can be quite close when you factor in the upgrade he represents on defense). But if he's coming off the bench he's Nick 2.0, and in so far as Nick was primarily a scorer with pg skills as a Mav, that could very well be right up JT's alley. And when you factor in that JT's a more efficient scorer and a considerably better defender than Nick, I think it could very well be right up the Mavs' alley as well.
quite right... and he's done this before... 6th man, 3rd guard on Arizona championship team behind bibby and simon.
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Old 10-31-2004, 11:48 PM   #117
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

Terry takes on sixth man role with optimism

Point guard eager to 'sacrifice' in exchange for team's success

10:42 PM CST on Sunday, October 31, 2004

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

Jason Terry isn't holding a grudge at being replaced by Devin Harris as the starting point guard for the Mavericks.

In fact, he's ready to embrace the move.

"Anybody who looks at the history of me, that's where I made my name," Terry said. "With my energy and leadership coming off the bench with that second group, that's going to be exactly what we need."

Terry was a sixth man for much of his rookie season. But that was with a poor team in Atlanta, and he quickly was promoted to the starting position. When he joined the Mavericks in the Antoine Walker trade this summer, he was penciled into the starting lineup. But as Don Nelson said, pencils come with erasers.

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"It's a change from what I thought I'd be doing, but I love Terry coming off the bench with [Jerry] Stackhouse," Nelson said. "And we'll bring Marquis Daniels off the bench, too."

That means the starting lineup on Tuesday against the Sacramento Kings will be Erick Dampier, Dirk Nowitzki and Michael Finley on the front line with Josh Howard and Harris in the backcourt.

Terry said after five losing seasons in Atlanta, he'll do anything to ensure success for the team.

"When you have a winning team, somebody has to make a sacrifice," he said. "And that person is me. The biggest difference is we're going to be winning. I'll trade that for anything."

Daniels likely to play: Marquis Daniels missed all eight preseason games with an ankle sprain, but coach Don Nelson expects the 6-6 swingman to be available for Tuesday's opener.

Daniels practiced extensively Sunday. While he had his left ankle wrapped in ice afterward, he said he's made big improvement.

"I can't do everything, but I can do a lot more than I could a week ago," Daniels said. "It's just a matter of getting a lot more strength back in my ankle. I'm trying not to aggravate it too much and trying not to baby it too much."

Nelson said he expects to have a full complement of players for the opener, which is a little surprising given that the preseason was filled with nagging injuries.

"He's been very good in practice," Nelson said of Daniels. "He's not even 100 percent, but I forgot how good he is."

That sentiment was echoed by Jason Terry.

"He's so good, it's scary," Terry said. "And he's so smooth. You don't know he's even out there."

Briefly: This is the second year in a row that the Mavericks appear to have hit it big with rookies. Josh Howard and Marquis Daniels both were key contributors last season, and Devin Harris now has a chance to do the same. "We stayed out of the high-school pool," Michael Finley said. "The guys we've drafted had a lot of college experience. They're always a step ahead. I just hope he [Harris] doesn't think this is over as far as working hard. It gets harder." ... Dan Dickau is expected to be the third member of the injured list, joining Pavel Podkolzin and Tariq Abdul-Wahad.

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Old 10-31-2004, 11:49 PM   #118
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

Nice to read that part about Daniels as well. Ready to make good on that contract it looks like.
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Old 10-31-2004, 11:54 PM   #119
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

Terry is as classy as Jamison. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Great news on Daniels... hope he gets rid of the rust fast...
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Old 11-01-2004, 12:00 AM   #120
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

JT's reaction is everything you'd hope it would be. And it's nice to hear that Quis is looking good out there.
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