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Old 11-01-2004, 12:15 AM   #121
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

Great news in that article. I'm really glad Daniels is coming along-- and glad that Terry is taking the 6th man role well (but does that make Stack the 7th man?)
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Old 11-01-2004, 12:40 AM   #122
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

After going to a couple preseason games and seeing Harris play, I've been telling everyone who will listen to me that he would definitely be the starter at some point this year. He plays with an incredible amount of poise and confidence for a rookie, and should make a strong run at rookie of the year.
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Old 11-01-2004, 01:02 AM   #123
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

Quote:
Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
I had my wisdom teeth out when I was sixteen and it was a huge pain in the ass. My face was swollen up like a chimpmunk so badly I wouldn't even go out in public for three days, and mine weren't even impacted, which apparently a couple of JT's were. And it's not just recovery from the surgery that's getting him, for those who don't seem to have read very carefully. It's that he's loaded up on painkillers.
just to offen a different perspective, all four of my wisdom teeth were impacted and I was up at going at 100% in less than two days...so it seems to vary from individual. One way or another, lets hope the JET gets flying again in no time.
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Old 11-01-2004, 01:05 AM   #124
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

Quote:
"Anybody who looks at the history of me, that's where I made my name," Terry said. "With my energy and leadership coming off the bench with that second group, that's going to be exactly what we need."
I love this guy. No negative pride whatsoever.
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ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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Old 11-01-2004, 01:09 AM   #125
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

Quote:
That means the starting lineup on Tuesday against the Sacramento Kings will be Erick Dampier, Dirk Nowitzki and Michael Finley on the front line with Josh Howard and Harris in the backcourt.
I love this lineup...Finley as the 3 and Howard as the 2? Shouldn't that be the other way around?
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Old 11-01-2004, 06:20 AM   #126
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

Wah, Devinharriswillstart is a witch. Burn him at the stake! Burn him [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
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Old 11-01-2004, 08:45 AM   #127
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

If you don't play the best players there will be a whole lot more discension than folks grumbling for minutes. Winning cures all and competitive players know when they see a better player.

From what I've seen (now I haven't seen a non pre-season game yet and it's been sort of chaotic out there) devin has something that jt does not. JT "thinks" his name is jet, devins is.

But I'd like to see the kid run the team in a close game a little bit.
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Old 11-01-2004, 10:14 AM   #128
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

unless Harris just goes Roethlisberger on everybody, I expect JT to be starting again soon.
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Old 11-01-2004, 04:46 PM   #129
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

For once, Barkley may come off as a genius. When he said Devin would win the ROY, I laughed it off thinking there's no way he's gonna' beat out Howard, Okafor, etc., who're gonna' start for their teams. But now I believe Devin's got as good a chance as anyone out there.



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Old 11-01-2004, 06:08 PM   #130
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

Devin and Dwight Howard have to be the two favorites. They will put up good stats on good teams unlike Okafor.
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Old 11-01-2004, 06:12 PM   #131
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

Quote:
Originally posted by: The Miles
Devin and Dwight Howard have to be the two favorites. They will put up good stats on good teams unlike Okafor.
being on a good team doesn't have crap to do with winning rookie of the year
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Old 11-01-2004, 06:34 PM   #132
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

Quote:
being on a good team doesn't have crap to do with winning rookie of the year
That's just naive. A player's individual stats are certainly the dominant influence on the number of votes they get, but if you've got a pair of candidates with comparable stats and one plays on a cellar dweller while the other starts on a playoff team you better believe that going to figure into the voting.
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Old 11-01-2004, 09:01 PM   #133
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

While I agree with you C, your wrong regarding last year... To say that LeBron and Carmello DIDNT have comparable stats is just silly, and Carmello's team was much better than Cleveland.

Now, with that said, I understand that Denver's team without Carmello was much better than Cleveland's team without LeBron; however, that is not what you just said!
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Old 11-01-2004, 09:07 PM   #134
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

Quote:
While I agree with you C, your wrong regarding last year... To say that LeBron and Carmello DIDNT have comparable stats is just silly, and Carmello's team was much better than Cleveland.

Now, with that said, I understand that Denver's team without Carmello was much better than Cleveland's team without LeBron; however, that is not what you just said!
First, I said nothing about last year, specifically. Second, the Cavs weren't a cellar dweller last year. Third, I never claimed that the player on the better team would win 100% of the time. I was merely pointing out that end's statement that team performance didn't mean crap was not correct, which, as you said, you agree with.
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Old 11-01-2004, 09:18 PM   #135
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

First, you didn't HAVE to say anything about last year as your point was not year-specific... If you don't specify, I can certainly pick out a specific year to prove my point. Second, any team that doesn't make the playoffs are just as much in the cellar as the team with the fewest wins... I consider a cellar team to be one that has AT LEAST one lottery ball!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] Third, I didn't say you did; however, your words were:

"if you've got a pair of candidates with comparable stats and one plays on a cellar dweller while the other starts on a playoff team you better believe that going to figure into the voting"

...and my point was simply that it didn't in this case! And yes, I do agree with you...
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Old 11-01-2004, 10:00 PM   #136
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

Quote:
...and my point was simply that it didn't in this case! And yes, I do agree with you...
Just because the guy on the lottery team (and, btw, when I say cellar dweller I'm not including teams that were in contention for a playoff spot up to the last week of the season) won doesn't mean the records didn't figure into somebody's vote.
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Old 11-01-2004, 10:46 PM   #137
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

Cleveland of 02/03: 17 WINS, 65 LOSSES
Denver of 02/03: 17 WINS, 65 LOSSES

Cleveland of 03/04: 35 WINS, 47 LOSSES (in the EAST)
Denver of 03/04: 43 WINS, 39 LOSSES (in the WEST)

Cleveland difference: +18
Denver difference: +26

I would personally say that an 8 game swing, (again, despite the talent that Carmello had around him), between two terrible teams the year before should be enough to push one guy past another guy if their stats are comparable...

LeBrons stats: 20.9ppg, 5.5rpg, 5.9apg, 1.65spg, 39.5mpg
Carmellos stats: 21ppg, 6.1rpg, 2.8apg, 1.18spg, 36.5mpg

Seems to me that they both had two stats on each other while LeBron played three minutes more per game. Funny how those stats failed to give Carmello descent consideration for ROY huh? Don't get me wrong C... I think LeBron is a MUCH, MUCH better player, but to say that the team success came into play on voting is just silly. Denver was CLEARLY the better team, (despite Cleveland being in contention for a playoff spot up to the last week of the season, which we all know was only accomplished because of that team playing in the shitty Eastern Conference)...

Sorry buddy, but the stats and standings just don't agree with you for last year!
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Old 11-01-2004, 11:01 PM   #138
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

The problem with wisdom teeth is that if you don't get them out soon enough they will grow into your jaw bone, causing the dr. to have to cut them out. Any time you remove part of your bone it takes a longer time to heal. I got mine out young so I was up and about in a few days. I'm surprised Terry hadn't gotten his out earlier.
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Old 11-01-2004, 11:08 PM   #139
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

Quote:
but to say that the team success came into play on voting is just silly.
I tell you what. You run around and ask every single person who voted in ROY balloting whether they gave any consideration to the records (and improvements in the records) of the teams for which the leading contenders played. If EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM says they didn't pay any attention to the records, then I'll buy your argument. Until then, all you're doing is advocating a moderate position and trying to define that position by arguing with someone who's probably just as moderate (though far more realistic[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]) as you are.
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Old 11-01-2004, 11:10 PM   #140
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

I will get right on that! [img]i/expressions/moon.gif[/img]
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Old 11-01-2004, 11:13 PM   #141
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

And by the way, funny how you didn't mention anything else in my post OTHER than that ONE line... The truth hurts when referring to your original point, eh??? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

That point, again, was:

"if you've got a pair of candidates with comparable stats and one plays on a cellar dweller while the other starts on a playoff team you better believe that going to figure into the voting"

I just don't see it myself; however, to each his own, (though my "own" is actually far more realistic)! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
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Old 11-01-2004, 11:25 PM   #142
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

If you want to debate about what were the prominent determining factors in LeBron winning ROY last year, which is a different issue, I'd be happy to quote more of your posts (well, not happy really; I'm not terribly interested in having that debate). I'm just citing the most to the point bits. I don't think I'm misrepresenting the part of your argument that I'm taking issue with, but if I am I apologize.

You brought up my original statement, so I'll say this: there's nothing in that claim that requires that the player on the better team win every time, and if you take another minute to look over what I said I think you and anyone else will find that to be quite self evident. All I'm saying is there's no way, IMO, that the candidates' team's successes don't figure into the voting process in at least some of the voters minds. Just to simplify things, do you agree or disagree with that point? Because if you agree then we're really doing nothing but running around in circles, and I could be mistaken, but I feel like you've told me you agree with me on this basic, non-extremist point on at least two occasions in this little debate.
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Old 11-01-2004, 11:37 PM   #143
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Default RE: Devin Harris will start

As you said yourself:

"I was merely pointing out that end's statement that team performance didn't mean crap was not correct"

Which I agreed with!

That is not the same thing as:

"if you've got a pair of candidates with comparable stats and one plays on a cellar dweller while the other starts on a playoff team you better believe that going to figure into the voting"

I agree that team success is simply not crap in the ROY voting; however, I do not think it is a huge factor in several situations, (like the one we had last year in which all of the hype of LeBron almost FORCED the voters to select James). If it was, Carmello would be the 03/04 ROY IMO.

Regarding this statement:

"there's nothing in that claim that requires that the player on the better team win every time, and if you take another minute to look over what I said I think you and anyone else will find that to be quite self evident"

I would simply say that I don't agree... The way you stressed your comment implies, to me, that you strongly feel that this is something that happens quite consistently if not every time. Maybe that is just misinterpretation on my part; however, I feel that you made a strong statement and have since tried to lessen the strength of that statement...

One more time, your statement, specifically where I see the strength in your words:

"you better believe that going to figure into the voting"

You are definitely right regarding us going in circles here. With that said, I think that we both believe that the vote likely involves the teams performance, but I just think you feel it comes into play a good bit more than I do...
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Old 11-01-2004, 11:57 PM   #144
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

sike where are u? sounds like stack/quis/jho/fin are all available to play on opening night =p
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Old 11-02-2004, 12:10 AM   #145
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

If voters don't take a teams record into account, they should. There's not way to prove either side of the argument, but I'd like to believe that it's a consideration.

You had a couple of other mitigating factors in the Carmello/Labron debate.

1) Labron came straight of high school with more hype than any rookie who has ever entered the league. I believe that most thought there was no way he'd live up to it and when he did he was rewarded.

Carmello OTOH took a college team to the Final Four and won it as a freshman. It was pretty clear that he was NBA ready.

2) Carmello took a p.r. hit late in the season. Can't remember what happened...something like refusing to enter a game. This left a bad taste in the mouth of many and could very well have swayed a close vote.

If the Mavs are a top 4 team in the brutal West and Devin is the quarterback, I think he will get strong consideration. I think we’ve seen that if you play him enough, he’ll give you numbers. His points won’t be as high as say, Okafor’s but there’s no reason he can’t have double figure points, 5+ assists and 2 steals. Those numbers will put him in contention.
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Old 11-02-2004, 12:18 AM   #146
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

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Originally posted by: alby
sike where are u? sounds like stack/quis/jho/fin are all available to play on opening night =p
I thought Stack would sit for sure...I hope you're right alby...but we shall see
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Old 11-02-2004, 12:26 AM   #147
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

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Originally posted by: dirno2000
If voters don't take a teams record into account, they should. There's not way to prove either side of the argument, but I'd like to believe that it's a consideration. Agreed

You had a couple of other mitigating factors in the Carmello/Labron debate.

1) Labron came straight of high school with more hype than any rookie who has ever entered the league. I believe that most thought there was no way he'd live up to it and when he did he was rewarded.

Carmello OTOH took a college team to the Final Four and won it as a freshman. It was pretty clear that he was NBA ready. The factors that you are speaking of truly don't matter to me, as my point was simply that the winner of the ROY for 03/04 was not the guy with the better team if you agree that their numbers were comparable. There can be other factors in every race, (injuries, playing time, clutch performances, etc...), but that is not what we were discussing!

2) Carmello took a p.r. hit late in the season. Can't remember what happened...something like refusing to enter a game. This left a bad taste in the mouth of many and could very well have swayed a close vote. Speculation... Possible, but just as unprovable as our little debate here

If the Mavs are a top 4 team in the brutal West and Devin is the quarterback, I think he will get strong consideration. This all just depends... I think he will get consideration based on our record, but again, it can be argued that if Howard puts up 16/9/3 and Harris puts up 18/5/7 that Howard might get the ROY for hype despite his teams poor record, (assuming Orlando doesn't make the playoffs) [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] I think we’ve seen that if you play him enough, he’ll give you numbers. His points won’t be as high as say, Okafor’s but there’s no reason he can’t have double figure points, 5+ assists and 2 steals. Those numbers will put him in contention.Two things... First, I think he will likely have more points than Okafor, as I think Okafor will be a 12/9/3 guy... Second, I believe that double figure points, 5+ assists, and 2 steals with the Mavs having a winning record will put Devin in contention, but just how serious will that contention be??? Who knows really... Only time will tell!
Back to the topic of this thread... I still am unsure if Devin will start this entire season, and that will be one helluva determining factor for how good his stats are and ultimately how well his chances are of winning the ROY as Barkley predicted!

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Old 11-02-2004, 01:11 PM   #148
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

mike miller won ROY on an awful team
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Old 11-02-2004, 01:23 PM   #149
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

rookie of the year - dev
most valuable player - dirk
defensive player of the year - jho or damp
6th man of the year - stack or jt
coach of the year - nellie

doesnt mean sh*t if we dont win the championship IMO =]
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Old 11-02-2004, 02:22 PM   #150
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Default RE:Devin Harris will start

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Originally posted by: alby
rookie of the year - dev
most valuable player - dirk
defensive player of the year - jho or damp
6th man of the year - stack or jt
coach of the year - nellie

doesnt mean sh*t if we dont win the championship IMO =]
Executive of the year - Donnie


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