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02-10-2022, 04:10 PM
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#1 |
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 452
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Mavericks trade Kristaps Porzingis to Washington
Mavericks trade Kristaps Porzingis to Washington for package including Spencer Dinwiddie
Surprised not a thread on this yet! I get why they wanted to trade KP, but not sure this trade helps them. Dinwiddie is averaging 12 pts on 37% shooting, 31% from three. Ya, he played well on a short stretch for Nets a couple years ago....don't care. This seems like about a wash for Jalon, at BEST. Throw-in meh to make salary caps match. This trade basically REQUIRES that Dinwiddie return to his 2019 Nets form...making it a wish, at best. |
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02-10-2022, 04:19 PM
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#2 |
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My guess after the trade and assuming they get Dragic via buyout
The rotation would be Powell DFS Bullock Brunson Luka Bench Dragic Dinwiddie Green Kleber Chriss Although I'm hoping Chriss at some point jumps Powell in the starting lineup. Mavs are going to be in trouble vs BIG's like KAT, Davis, Ayton, Jokic or Gobert come playoff time. I expect those guys to eat us up on the offensive glass. |
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02-10-2022, 04:25 PM
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#3 |
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https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2022/2...ltiple-sources
Hopefully, Bertans can get back to what he was in previous years because if the Mavs are going to pay him to miss threes and get blown by on defense, I’d rather just have KP for half the games. That part of the article is so true LOL Last edited by Dallas41; 02-10-2022 at 04:25 PM. |
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02-10-2022, 04:42 PM
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#4 |
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Trade grade
Mavericks: C+ Hmmm. On one hand, Dinwiddie fills a need as a secondary ball-handler to either put next to Luka or anchor some bench lineups. He’s also insurance for Jalen Brunson, who is a free agent this summer and could receive a healthy offer from another team. But Dinwiddie isn’t necessarily great insurance. He’s not had a good season for the Wizards, and his poor three-point shooting is a concern. Let’s say the Mavs keep both Brunson and Dinwiddie this summer—then you’re allocating a lot of resources at point guard. If Brunson leaves and Dinwiddie stays, then the Mavs have downgraded considerably. Bertans is useful in theory. The problem is his three-point shooting has cooled off significantly this season. He’s played in only 34 games, shooting 31.9% from three. Healthy and playing off Luka should help Bertans get some better looks, even if he may give up some buckets on the other end. It’s a curious trade for Dallas. Porzingis’s injury issues are a serious concern. He’s also played well this year when healthy, and this deal doesn’t fully absolve the Mavs of his contract because of the money coming back. The new additions could also chip away at some of Dallas’s recent defensive success. Ultimately, it’s a useful short-term move that’s not quite a home run. Wizards: B Washington needed to take a little bit of a swing to keep Bradley Beal happy. Maybe Porzingis will have better success playing off him than a more ball-dominant star in Luka. Especially if the Wiz aren’t taking on a ton of extra salary, why not do this trade? It’s a big if banking on Porzingis’s health—which Dallas learned the hard way—still this trade raises the Wizards’ ceiling. A Beal-Porzingis-Kentavious Caldwell-Pope-Kyle Kuzma core can be frisky. And Washington can rest KP down the stretch of this season and try to add another rotation piece in the lottery. This feels like a low-risk, high-reward trade for the Wizards. Porzingis’s health has burned teams’ best laid plans before. Without many routes to adding a star next to Beal, though, it’s a sensible gamble from Washington’s front office. |
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02-10-2022, 05:07 PM
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Lol the problem for the Wiz is that Beal doesn't have to sign a max contract. He has a player option, and while we haven't seen someone turn down a max for the extra year and money, it wouldn't shock me. I mean, Beal hasn't even seen some of the success Portland has and Damian Lillard and that situation might be the best comparison. He could see where Dame is in that decision and think no thanks.
Not concerned with Dinwiddie and Bertans shooting numbers. Dinwiddie likely forced more shots up given that roster and Bertans will get way better looks. We will see. Either way, the flexibility is key. Let's just say my thoughts about Beal are true. I could easily see an offseason where we sign Beal and then sign and trade Brunson to the Pacers for Myles Turner. Dinwiddie Beal Luka DFS Turner Never know, that's just one possible scenario, but shows what the FO might be thinking as far as beyond this season. |
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02-10-2022, 05:23 PM
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Brunson is a UFA. |
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02-10-2022, 05:27 PM
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02-10-2022, 05:52 PM
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At least this trade proves one thing - Nico is in charge of the Mavericks. There is NO WAY that Cuban's ego could EVER admit that he lost the trade with the Knicks. If Cuban was in charge, there isn't a possibility that KP would have been moved.
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02-10-2022, 08:39 PM
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#9 |
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I don't get it. You basically gave away Porzingis for nothing. Maybe I am stupid. What am I missing?
Does anybody believe Dinwiddie and Bertans are anything more than 20-25 minutes rotation pieces? These guys are average at best and won't move any kind of needle. Add them to the list of Bullocks, Browns and all the other mediocre guys in which we put our hopes in for some reason (lack of any other choice, probably). What's worse, this may suggest the FO is ready to let Brunson walk. If they traded Porzingis for cap space, I guess they will have to prove it was the right deal, but we all know the Mavs' record at attracting free agents. The team wasn't going very far with Porzingis either, and he's probably going to get worse with all the injuries, but at least you had some hope that if everything clicks at the right time, you could make some noise. And even if you do have to move him, this is the best you can get? Really? We gave up a pick too????? I don't understand this franchise. Everything they do and have done seems idiotic to me, aside from drafting Dirk and Luka (I thought trading for KP was ok too, even if it didn't work out). Everything! I have never in my life had the opportunity to say "this was a smart move by the Mavs". I was too young for Dirk, and with Luka I just thought the others were complete idiots. Imagine the Mavs under Cuban if Dirk wouldn't have been drafted. Worst franchise in the NBA. If Luka leaves, I don't think they will get third time lucky. Last edited by Rostick; 02-10-2022 at 08:45 PM. |
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02-10-2022, 09:21 PM
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02-10-2022, 09:31 PM
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I liked KP and would frequently defend him, but the injury concerns are real. In his first season with the Mavs that he actually played he missed 25 games and he played 3 playoff games before going out with an injury. The next season he played 43 games, and Carlisle did his best to make sure he would play in the playoffs. The problem was that he missed so much time that he wasn't conditioned to play. This season he's already missed 21 games.
I feel like he is in phenomenal shape, but he is going to continue to miss crucial games for his short lived career. I do not expect it to be a long one, which is a shame since when he plays well he is so much fun to watch. Another problem I see with KP is chemistry. Maybe I am wrong here, but I think the other players have to adjust their games to help KP. At the very least I think Dinwiddie will be an instant fit for the Mavs. I don't know as much about Davis Bertrans though. I have my concerns with him. We gave up a lot to get KP, and we clearly have admitted to that trade being a major bust for the Mavs. Now, if the Spurs waive Goran Dragic, then I wonder who the Mavs have to move to clear a spot for him. Also I wonder if they already had to clear a spot to make this trade work. Did we have 2 two-way players? I thought we only had 1, Theo Pinson. If that is true, do we have an injury exception or any kind of exception due to THJ being out?
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02-10-2022, 11:42 PM
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If you look at this trade in terms of what we expected from KP, it looks bad. And if you look at the assets we gave up to get him, it looks even worse. The Mavs bet the farm that KP would stay healthy, and they lost. Time to try something else.
Now, look at it in terms of where the Mavs are now. Before the trade, we had KP, sometimes. No one could predict when he'd go down, but it wasn't a case of whether he'd miss games, it was when and how many. Now we have gotten rid of the uncertainty that comes with trying to build a team around a guy you can't count on. So, where are we now? Basically the same team that last week, without KP,beat Philly, featuring MVP front runner Embid. Except now, we have added a bench scorer to replace THJ's 16 ppg, one who will be here even if Brunson takes the money and runs. And we have a stretch 4 who, over a 6 year career, has shot the three at 40%. Sure, they are overpaid. But probably half the guys in the league making $15 mil a year aren't worth it. It was time to cut our losses, lest we waste another year or two hoping that KP will get and stay healthy.
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"He got dimes." Harrison Barnes on Luca Doncic during his 1st NBA training camp. |
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02-10-2022, 11:54 PM
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02-11-2022, 01:46 AM
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Similar views to others here. Don't think this currently makes the Mavs better, and likely hurts them this year. Might be better if Bertrans gets out of his shooting slump. Dinwiddie I don't think is going to chance much this year (happy to be proven wrong!)--strikes me as injury issues. Might be similar to what Ezekiel Elliott had--not enough to keep him from playing, but definitely bad enough it was highly noticeable how it impacted him. If still here next year, maybe he's more recovered from his ACL. Even if he becomes totally healthy, strikes me as a lesser Jalon Brunson, at more money than Mavs were likely to be will to spend to sign him. Could be a better defender.
Seems like what we really did was trade 1 bad contract on an injured player for another. I guess the plus in that is that the contract we got back is a lot smaller, and hence potentially easier to deal. Bertrans could become a good player (have to think a change in scenery might help with his shooting yips), but still a bad contract---that's too much to pay for someone who is basically there to shoot threes. Which makes me wonder if maybe doctors are telling Mavs FO that KP's injury issues are not only going to continue, but likely get worse, and they just decided needed to dump him for whatever they could get back. If that's the case, need to factor in what might have been the case if they didn't trade him. Time will tell, on all these things. The one positive is that the Mavs were playing well without him (although perhaps not coincidental that they lost to two of the leagues worst teams right after he went out). So, maybe not really a downside, either. |
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02-11-2022, 02:32 AM
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Member
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I will miss Bubble KP!
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02-11-2022, 12:33 PM
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Member
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Food for thought:
Kristaps Porziņģis is the 68th player in the NBA with the most games missed this season, has played more games than DeAndre Ayton, Anthony Davis, Jimmy Butler, Damian Lillard and many other big name stars. KAT has also missed more games since KP joined Dallas. Unless the med staff told the FO something we don't know about, this seems like a pretty massive overreaction by the FO. Big men miss games. They just do. The bigger they are, the more games they tend to miss. Lots of stress on their bodies/joints/etc. |
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02-11-2022, 12:43 PM
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AD has missed a lot of games and it's severely hurt the Lakers. Fortunately we have a better constructed team, but his absence is the same. That goes for KAT as well, just can't count of some of these guys. You left out Jokic, Gobert, and some others, too. |
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02-11-2022, 12:55 PM
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02-11-2022, 01:40 PM
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02-11-2022, 01:46 PM
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#20 | |
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Dame, KAT, and Ayton have seasons where they play most games. And KP hasnt played a mostly full season since 2015 with 71 games. Unfortunately this is who he is at 7'2. It was never going to improve.
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Last edited by Melonhead; 02-11-2022 at 01:46 PM. |
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02-11-2022, 01:57 PM
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Inactive.
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Unlike those people listed, KP isn't a star when healthy. Stars impact the game. Lillard takes over and wins games. Davis (at least the Anthony Davis of 3-4 years ago) dominated games. KP does not change the game and he doesn't even put up the numbers he puts up efficiently. Since KP was a rookie, he was always billed as a future star. Six years in and he's still not a star. How long do we keep billing him as a star before we realize that he's just a decent player. |
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02-11-2022, 03:00 PM
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The big issue is that we're still playing the "oh next season" game even without KP. When are we going to be contenders again?
Nothing about what has happened has really changed anything for the foreseeable future. You want KP gone, fine, but we still aren't good enough to win it all. All we got is a little bit more flexibility down the road which only pays off in theory. We need to start making winning trades, FA moves, and drafting. Like yesterday. Maybe it starts with this...maybe not. Keeping THJ then trying to trade him almost immediately makes my faith stay low.
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02-11-2022, 03:13 PM
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Brad Townsend: Last night Mark Cuban told me of Porzingis: “I actually think he’s going to be better with the Wizards than he was with us.” A Wizards source texted: “Too good of a roll to not take the dice.” Hard not to be intoxicated by the Porzingis Potential. Porzingis Reality, however… – via Twitter townbrad
Mark Cuban, Trade, Kristaps Porzingis, Dallas Mavericks, Washington Wizards Chase Hughes: Wizards team president Tommy Sheppard believes acquiring Kristaps Porzingis represents the organization taking a “big swing” towards acquiring talent. He said Jerry West told him when he took the job “don’t be afraid to take big swings.” – via Twitter ChaseHughesNBCS |
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02-11-2022, 03:14 PM
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#24 |
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Yea, if they could have found a suitor for THJ, that would have been nice.
I'm going on record as I think Dinwiddie will be very good for the Mavs and we will be happy to have him when all settles. Bertans will never live up to the contract, but I bet a role can be carved out for him to knock down some threes and provide spacing. Anything outside of that is gravy, but I'm not holding my breath. If we get anywhere near the late San Antonio/early Washington version, that would be nice. Overpaid still, but nice. Edit: we also get to keep our Eastern European front in tact, a measure not too small given today's news with Russia lol Last edited by saclare; 02-11-2022 at 03:16 PM. |
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02-11-2022, 03:15 PM
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02-11-2022, 03:56 PM
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#26 | |
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02-11-2022, 04:38 PM
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I think chemistry issues between Luka and KP were to much to overcome. Last year was not pretty. I think Kidd is doing a good job and sold Luka on giving him the chance to make it work. I guess after a half a season Kidd threw in the towel. KP is talented and can score and defend some but they were never going to be able to rely on him. I doon't think they can move forward until he was gone but my idea of a step back to move forward was not this but getting at least a draft pick. I like Dinwiddie. Bertans? not so much but if he gets his 3 point game back he might be best shooter on team. Big IF. Brunson struggled against the Clips atheticism or maybe Luke Kennard's aura on the court freaks him out. I think Dinwiddie helps there and liken him to Livingston of the Warriors only @ something in the 25-30 mpg range. I think they believe they move some of these contracts easier in the off season
Pacers almost took THJ for LeVert? Really. Any link. I think they will likely move Turner and Brogdon in the off season. Turner seems liek a 3 and D center and I haven't noticed him being much on PnR. They have draft picks and want to play Jackson. They can shop for another big in FA and/or use a pick on a big. What if they get luckky and win the lotto for Jabari smith to pair with Jackson. Turner I think is certainly gone in that scenario. |
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02-11-2022, 04:41 PM
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Inactive.
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Quote:
1) Dinwiddie - +best case= Jason Terry (great sixth man, passable defense). - Worst case= Tariq Abdul-Wahad (unplayable because of injuries) 2) Bertans - +best case= Peja/Walt Williams (poor defense, situational sniper). -Worst case= Rigadeau/Melli (DNPs, off to Europe) Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 02-11-2022 at 04:42 PM. |
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02-11-2022, 04:42 PM
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#29 | |
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02-11-2022, 04:52 PM
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#30 |
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Tim McMahon on 105.3 said he doesn’t think KP was happy about the trade? I guess it makes a little bit of sense since he came here to compete for championships, and now he goes to a rebuilding Washington team. Gotta be a little humbling getting traded for spare parts.
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02-11-2022, 05:03 PM
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#31 | |
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And as for KAT you could argue he puts up #'s but prior to this year those #'s weren't really leading to any wins. They are both talented players, but I think both guys are a bit overrated in terms of their impact to actually winning games. Last edited by Dallas41; 02-11-2022 at 05:04 PM. |
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02-12-2022, 12:37 PM
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#32 |
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This trade was atrocious. The Mavs are beyond broken with Cuban running things, and I'm pretty sure the Mavs want to resign Brunson. Imagine if they figure out how to keep Brunson with $20m/yr.
Mavs will have THJ with his contract, Bertans and his contract, Dinwiddie and his contract, then add Brunson at $20m+/season (great player in a 6'5" and under league). SMH This team is done for several years. Stick a fork in them, and say bye bye to Luka. He's as good as gone. Wow, what a $hitshow. Last edited by turin; 02-13-2022 at 10:57 AM. |
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02-12-2022, 01:28 PM
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02-12-2022, 01:39 PM
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Inactive.
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02-12-2022, 02:23 PM
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#35 | |
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Last edited by mac222b; 02-12-2022 at 02:25 PM. |
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02-12-2022, 02:32 PM
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#36 | |
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The Trade Package Last night, reporters leaked that the Raptors were offering a package of Goran Dragic and a protected first round pick. Many fans have stated they would have preferred that package over what the trade ended up being. https://torontosun.com/sports/basket...een-with-white Raptors NBA trade deadline fallout: Young more than a rental? Pro passing on Porzingis and what might have been with White — I think the Raptors dodged a major bullet in not moving Dragic and a first (or Malachi Flynn) for Kristaps Porzingis. |
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02-12-2022, 02:46 PM
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#37 | |
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While I do agree with you that the trade was awful. I still believe the Mavs have a chance to win at least one playoff series. I think losing KP hurts the interior defense, and it will catch up to them most likely in the playoffs when teams go at Powell. I think most outlets I came across believe the trade was mainly done to get out of KP's contract and him not being available half the season didn't help. I thought Kidd did a great job using him and KP was moving much better but when you can't play you can't help your team. I guess this sum it up best about the trade Teams that got better at the trade deadline 4. Washington Wizards The Mavericks and Wizards agreed to the most surprising deal of the deadline when they swapped Kristaps Porzingis for Spencer Dinwiddie and Davis Bertans. The motivation from Dallas’ side was clear: they didn’t think Porzingis was good enough to be Luka Doncic’s main co-star, and by moving him now they open up more opportunities in the future. We’ll see how Dallas comes out of this, but in the present the deal is a big win for Washington. Taking a flier on Porzingis is exactly what a team in Washington’s position should do. KP is a 26-year-old with All-Star upside who has improved his defense this year. His threes aren’t falling, but he has a track record as a shooter. The biggest issue with Porzingis is his injury history, but the Wizards gave up very little of substance to get him. If Washington can get Porzingis to be the best version of himself over the next two seasons, this trade will look like highway robbery. Teams whose jobs got more difficult after the trade deadline 5. Dallas Mavericks The Mavs’ decision to trade Porzingis is all about finding a better co-star to pair with Luka Doncic for the future. The question is what becomes of the rest of this season. Dallas is currently No. 5 in the West, and Porzingis’ improved play from last year’s playoffs was a major reason for that. There’s an argument that losing KP will be addition by subtraction for Dallas this season, but I’m not sure I’m buying it. Unless Dinwiddie and Bertans immediately provide way more than they did in Washington this year, it seems like the Mavs are taking a step back to take a step forward in the future. |
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02-12-2022, 09:07 PM
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#38 | |
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02-13-2022, 10:18 AM
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#39 |
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Now there's definitely a big hole in the middle. Powell is great with the pick and roll. He plays hard and he hustles but he's going to struggle against a lot of BIGS.
Hope the new Mavs can pick up their worth and maybe used to get that 2nd star. Hope Brunson's trajectory becomes that 2nd star. There are 2 intriguing centers who might be available for the Mavs pick. Let's hope we get Kessler (Auburn) or Williams (Duke). Williams is more athletic, but Kessler might bring more to the table. He could be that stretch 5. |
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02-13-2022, 10:39 AM
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#40 | |
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Diamond Member
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Quote:
Right now, the Mavs have a solid #1 player in Luka, Brunson is a #6, DFS a #7, Aside from that, they are mostly trash with 3 of them complete garbage assets due to contracts - THJ, Bertans, Dinwiddie. Brunson will soon be #4, since Powell is finally nearing the end of his ridiculous contract, and THAT was only $11 millionish per season! The Mavs are f'd for YEARS, and Cuban will continue being tight with money while he rides the Luka train as long as possible for season ticket sales and revenue. This should last another year or two, and once Luka has enough bank, he'll start to pay a whole lot more attention to the mess around him. He'll tire of this crapshow real quick if he hasn't already, and I fully expect him to be gone in 3 years at best. Enjoy him while you can. I'm pretty much done with the Mavs. All Luka has to do is check out the last 8 or so years of Dirk's career to see what he has to look forward to, and Dirk gave away frigging money to a billionaire hoping to improve his work situation. SMH Last edited by turin; 02-13-2022 at 10:41 AM. |
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