Dirk's ankle - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

LRB · 12-03-2003, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree
to me, this seems like nelllie, again, trying to hold dirk back. IMO he should be ready by the LA game, even if Dough Boy doesn't play him, which is a guaranteed loss then.

If you sprain your ankle bad enough that you can't walk on it and need crutches, it takes a long time to heal. The smartest thing that Nellie, the Mavs, and Dirk can do is for Dirk not to come back on a partially healed ankle and become the next Grant Hill. Anybody remember Grant Hill coming back early on an ankle injury? Anybody remember Grant Hill making any allstar teams since? How about even playing at least half the games in a season since then?

No the dumbest possible thing that could happen is for Dirk to try and come back early and play the Lakers. I would hope that if he tried that Nellie or Cubes, preferrably Nellie, would step in and say not only no, but HELL NO!!! Dirk is too valuable to risk over a stoopid early December game.

kingrex · 12-03-2003, 12:46 PM

Dirk shouldn't return until fully ready. These games count, but not at the expense of Dirk later in the season and through the playoffs.

dude1394 · 12-03-2003, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree
to me, this seems like nelllie, again, trying to hold dirk back. IMO he should be ready by the LA game, even if Dough Boy doesn't play him, which is a guaranteed loss then.

Geezzz being a coach must be like being an elected official. Someone always hates what you are doing no matter what.

Walkerforthree · 12-03-2003, 02:43 PM

dirk wants to go thurs, he said it himself. Im sure he knows how healthy he feels.

grndmstr_c · 12-03-2003, 02:49 PM

He may want to, but he's not playing on thursday.

bernardos70 · 12-03-2003, 02:51 PM

See Jeremy Shockey.

sike · 12-03-2003, 03:38 PM

Geezzz being a coach must be like being an elected official. Someone always hates what you are doing no matter what.[/quote]

dude gets a gold star!

LRB · 12-03-2003, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree
dirk wants to go thurs, he said it himself. Im sure he knows how healthy he feels.

Last time I checked Dirk doesn't even have a 4 year college degree, much less an an advanced medical degree with several years specialization in Sports Medicine. And while at times he plays like an Uber man, he has no true super human powers like invunerability, Xray vision, Magnetic vision, or rapid healing like Marvel's Wolverine character.

So how Dirk feels has little more to do with this than whether or not monkeys are currently flying out of my butt. And BTW this is Nellie's decision to make, not Dirk's.

ReDIRKulous · 12-03-2003, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394

Quote:

I think Dirk falls in the 2nd degree category. He needs to do two things in my opinion: change shoes to ones with much better ankle support (Nike Mysticals are average at best for ankle support) and get custom braces made for both ankles, not just the affected one.

Folks, this will likely remain a lingering problem...........

Great post. Is there a limitation of movement with these custom braces? I'm curious why he hasn't done it and more folks don't.

Also I was thinking that possibly if he put on about 50 pounds and became MORE of an inside guy (shooting hooks, little jump hooks, etc.) the possibility of injury might be smaller. Any thoughts on that.

I actually was talking to my bud about two years ago about this and it seems to be coming to fruition. Something needs to change.

I thought Dirk always hurt his ankles rebounding? Even if he plays like Duncan he still has to rebound, and jump to do it.

LRB · 12-03-2003, 07:12 PM

Quote:

I thought Dirk always hurt his ankles rebounding? Even if he plays like Duncan he still has to rebound, and jump to do it.

Nope. Not this last time for sure. And as far as needing to jump, just ask Charles Oakley. I think he might have jumped once or twice, but not much more, in his career to get a rebound. Jumping is helpful, but not necessarily required.

ReDIRKulous · 12-03-2003, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

I thought Dirk always hurt his ankles rebounding? Even if he plays like Duncan he still has to rebound, and jump to do it.

Nope. Not this last time for sure. And as far as needing to jump, just ask Charles Oakley. I think he might have jumped once or twice, but not much more, in his career to get a rebound. Jumping is helpful, but not necessarily required.

For Sabonis and Yao Ming yes... everyone else.. no.

LRB · 12-03-2003, 07:49 PM

Charles Oakley, Dennis Rodman, Danny Fortson, Wes Unseld and Bill Russel what do these guys have in common. They all are at least pretty good rebounders and got a large percentage of their rebounds under the rim with little or no jumping.

Rebounding is more about being in the right place at the right time than jumping high. All things equal, a rebounder very skilled at getting position but with a very poor vertical will outrebond a player who has a great vertical but is very poorly skilled at getting position. Also the great rebounders can tell you very accurately where the rebound will bounce when the a shot is missed by taking into account who shot it, where it was shot from, and many other factors. Dennis Rodman studied hundreds of hours of film each year to gain the tendacies of where his opponents and his teammates were most likely to miss shots. Bill Russel, possibly the greates rebounder of all time, stated that most rebounds are obtained below the rim. This from a guy who had unbelievable hops. Russel was an olympic level high jumper.

Walkerforthree · 12-03-2003, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

I thought Dirk always hurt his ankles rebounding? Even if he plays like Duncan he still has to rebound, and jump to do it.

Nope. Not this last time for sure. And as far as needing to jump, just ask Charles Oakley. I think he might have jumped once or twice, but not much more, in his career to get a rebound. Jumping is helpful, but not necessarily required.

oh, but nellie is a doctor, I see.

LRB · 12-03-2003, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

I thought Dirk always hurt his ankles rebounding? Even if he plays like Duncan he still has to rebound, and jump to do it.

Nope. Not this last time for sure. And as far as needing to jump, just ask Charles Oakley. I think he might have jumped once or twice, but not much more, in his career to get a rebound. Jumping is helpful, but not necessarily required.

oh, but nellie is a doctor, I see.

Nope, he just consults with the doctors. And Nellie is responsible for who plays and who doesn't. He's responsible for getting maximum value out of his team and in seeing to the longterm health of the players. Those responsibilities are his and not the players.

How you feel often bears little relation to your actual health. Athletes have died after feeling perfectly healthy only seconds before from unseen health conditions.

It is not Dirk's call to weigh the risk of more serious injury against the benefits of coming back sooner. That is Nellie's job.

ReDIRKulous · 12-03-2003, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB
Charles Oakley, Dennis Rodman, Danny Fortson, Wes Unseld and Bill Russel what do these guys have in common. They all are at least pretty good rebounders and got a large percentage of their rebounds under the rim with little or no jumping.

Rebounding is more about being in the right place at the right time than jumping high. All things equal, a rebounder very skilled at getting position but with a very poor vertical will outrebond a player who has a great vertical but is very poorly skilled at getting position. Also the great rebounders can tell you very accurately where the rebound will bounce when the a shot is missed by taking into account who shot it, where it was shot from, and many other factors. Dennis Rodman studied hundreds of hours of film each year to gain the tendacies of where his opponents and his teammates were most likely to miss shots. Bill Russel, possibly the greates rebounder of all time, stated that most rebounds are obtained below the rim. This from a guy who had unbelievable hops. Russel was an olympic level high jumper.

I think the problem is that you are saying that people that weren't "great jumpers" or even bad jumpers didn't jump. Even people that aren't great jumpers have to jump to get rebounds. Other than Sabonis... and maybe some other guys over 7'2". Fortson is probably the guy that fits this description most... and even he jumps around a lot even though it isn't the most important aspect of rebounding... it is still a necessity to jump.

Regardless, I just don't want Dirk to put on weight and try to become Sabonis. I think more weight will just increase his injuries anyway.

Walkerforthree · 12-03-2003, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

I thought Dirk always hurt his ankles rebounding? Even if he plays like Duncan he still has to rebound, and jump to do it.

Nope. Not this last time for sure. And as far as needing to jump, just ask Charles Oakley. I think he might have jumped once or twice, but not much more, in his career to get a rebound. Jumping is helpful, but not necessarily required.

oh, but nellie is a doctor, I see.

Nope, he just consults with the doctors. And Nellie is responsible for who plays and who doesn't. He's responsible for getting maximum value out of his team and in seeing to the longterm health of the players. Those responsibilities are his and not the players.

How you feel often bears little relation to your actual health. Athletes have died after feeling perfectly healthy only seconds before from unseen health conditions.

It is not Dirk's call to weigh the risk of more serious injury against the benefits of coming back sooner. That is Nellie's job.

Oh im not denying its nellie's job.

LRB · 12-03-2003, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB
Charles Oakley, Dennis Rodman, Danny Fortson, Wes Unseld and Bill Russel what do these guys have in common. They all are at least pretty good rebounders and got a large percentage of their rebounds under the rim with little or no jumping.

Rebounding is more about being in the right place at the right time than jumping high. All things equal, a rebounder very skilled at getting position but with a very poor vertical will outrebond a player who has a great vertical but is very poorly skilled at getting position. Also the great rebounders can tell you very accurately where the rebound will bounce when the a shot is missed by taking into account who shot it, where it was shot from, and many other factors. Dennis Rodman studied hundreds of hours of film each year to gain the tendacies of where his opponents and his teammates were most likely to miss shots. Bill Russel, possibly the greates rebounder of all time, stated that most rebounds are obtained below the rim. This from a guy who had unbelievable hops. Russel was an olympic level high jumper.

I think the problem is that you are saying that people that weren't "great jumpers" or even bad jumpers didn't jump. Even people that aren't great jumpers have to jump to get rebounds. Other than Sabonis... and maybe some other guys over 7'2". Fortson is probably the guy that fits this description most... and even he jumps around a lot even though it isn't the most important aspect of rebounding... it is still a necessity to jump.

Regardless, I just don't want Dirk to put on weight and try to become Sabonis. I think more weight will just increase his injuries anyway.

Bill Russel was a fantastic jumper. And he would still be one today even in the athletically augmented NBA of today vs. the 50's and 60's of Russel's career. Dennis Rodman also had great hops, though not as good as Russel he could definitely elevate even in his Chicago Bulls days he could do so. Both Russel and Rodman rarely jumped or if they did it was a token jump that was only a fraction of their vertical to get their rebounds. The secret is it isn't whether you can jump or not, it's that if you're great at rebounding you really don't need to jump that much and usually on a small part of what you can jump. BTW these small jumps are much less likely to injure an ankle.

Sure there are times and places where you definitely should jump as high as you can to get a rebound, but great rebounders do not depend on their hops to get the vast majority of their rebounds.