RANKINGS - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Chiwas · 12-01-2003, 12:32 PM

Travis Best -- Not ranked

Shawn Bradley
Ranks #6 in the NBA in Blocks Per 48 Minutes(4.57)
Ranks #19 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking Per 48 Minutes(27.14)

Marquis Daniels
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Field Goals Per 48 Minutes(13.16)
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Field-Goal Attempts Per 48 Minutes(25.55)
Ranks #4 in the NBA in Points Per 48 Minutes(30.2)

Tony Delk -- Not ranked

Michael Finley
Ranks #11 in the NBA in Minutes Played(643.0)
Ranks #19 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Made(27.0)
Ranks #16 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goal Attempts(77.0)
Ranks #10 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover(1.15)

Danny Fortson -- Not ranked

Josh Howard
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover(1.67)
Ranks #14 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes(2.76)

Antwan Jamison -- Not ranked

Eduardo Najera
Ranks #16 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(5.4)
Ranks #13 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes(2.77)

Steve Nash
Ranks #4 in the NBA in Assists Per Game(7.5)
Ranks #17 in the NBA in Three-Point Field-Goal Percentage(0.423)
Ranks #6 in the NBA in Free-Throw Percentage(0.9)
Ranks #6 in the NBA in Assists(120.0)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Triple-doubles(1.0)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Assists Per 48 Minutes(11.6)
Ranks #9 in the NBA in Total Turnovers(51.0)
Ranks #10 in the NBA in Turnovers Per Game(3.19)
Ranks #6 in the NBA in Turnovers Per 48 Minutes(4.92)

Dirk Nowitzki
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Free-Throw Percentage(0.869)
Ranks #14 in the NBA in Free Throws(73.0)
Ranks #17 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds(94.0)
Ranks #15 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game(6.3)
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Double-doubles(5.0)
Ranks #11 in the NBA in Free Throws Per 48 Minutes(6.66)
Ranks #19 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking(20.13)
Ranks #17 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking Per 48 Minutes(27.56)

Antoine Walker
Ranks #11 in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game(9.8)
Ranks #14 in the NBA in Minutes Played(625.0)
Ranks #14 in the NBA in Field Goals Made(121.0)
Ranks #8 in the NBA in Field Goal Attempts(282.0)
Ranks #9 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goal Attempts(81.0)
Ranks #19 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds(46.0)
Ranks #7 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds(121.0)
Ranks #12 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game(7.1)
Ranks #9 in the NBA in Total Rebounds(167.0)
Ranks #13 in the NBA in Double-doubles(7.0)
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Total Efficiency Points(329.0)

Source: The Mavs page.

LRB · 12-01-2003, 12:56 PM

You forgot one Chiwas.

Danny Fortson Ranks #1 in the NBA in Super Sized meals order per 48 minutes. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Chiwas · 12-01-2003, 02:18 PM

It's good to see more Mavs ranked than just the big three and Bradley as last seasons.

It's good to see, also, two rookies playing for the Mavs, ranked. When have you thought that Nellie would have them playing, making them able to get enough minutes and games and qualify for the rankings?

It's strange to not see Jamison ranked.

And amazing how Nash and Walker are active in that so many departments at high level.

sbjensen · 12-01-2003, 04:18 PM

I don't know why the Mavs' website would fail to credit Danny for it, but he's tied for 1st in the NBA in rebs/48 mins, among players who have played at least 50 minutes this season. He and Dampier both average 19.3 rebs/48 mins.

Bookit · 12-01-2003, 04:23 PM

I guess Marquis Daniels is one of the best scorers in the league. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] Has anybody else noticed how Nellie always downplays Josh Howard's accomplishments by mentioning that Daniels is every bit as good as Josh Howard? Nellie really likes Daniels.

FineCubanCigar · 12-01-2003, 04:45 PM

Somebody bar this godforsaken thread!!!!!! per 48 minute stats are from the devil, if they meant anything Tony Dumas would be the greatest basketball player ever.

FilthyFinMavs · 12-01-2003, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Bookit
I guess Marquis Daniels is one of the best scorers in the league. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] Has anybody else noticed how Nellie always downplays Josh Howard's accomplishments by mentioning that Daniels is every bit as good as Josh Howard? Nellie really likes Daniels.

I noticed this and I think it's because of the bond that Daniels and Howard have. It's similiar to what Dirk and Nash had earlier in their careers. Ever since this offseason both Daniels and Howard have been with each other. I think Nellie doesn't want one thinking that they are playing better than the other.

Chiwas · 12-01-2003, 06:44 PM

Dirk only with double figures. Rare.

sike · 12-01-2003, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: Bookit
I guess Marquis Daniels is one of the best scorers in the league. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] Has anybody else noticed how Nellie always downplays Josh Howard's accomplishments by mentioning that Daniels is every bit as good as Josh Howard? Nellie really likes Daniels.

I noticed this and I think it's because of the bond that Daniels and Howard have. It's similiar to what Dirk and Nash had earlier in their careers. Ever since this offseason both Daniels and Howard have been with each other. I think Nellie doesn't want one thinking that they are playing better than the other.

actually I think its more to keep JHo humble than to do anything else....Nellie does not like Rookies to get big heads.......but somehow I dont think JHo will struggle with that big head crap!...I get the feeling that hes better than that...plus he's surrounded by stars..that helps

Jamisonite · 12-01-2003, 06:59 PM

per 48 minutes are the most leading stats ever. So basically if i played 1 minute a game and got 2pts and 1 reb per game id lead the league in per 48 mins

LRB · 12-01-2003, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FineCubanCigar
Somebody bar this godforsaken thread!!!!!! per 48 minute stats are from the devil, if they meant anything Tony Dumas would be the greatest basketball player ever.

FCC it's not a question of 48 minute stats meaining EVERYTHING or not meaning ANYTHING. Like any stat they have their meanings. But you shouldn't give surpremacy to them. They are just another way of looking at things.

If you have 2 players and one plays 20 minutes on average and gets 2 blocks on average and another plays 40 minutes and gets 2.5 blocks on average, then the 1st is probably the better shot blocker. I say probably because this isn't a defnitive stat.

But in the same vein if one player shoots 84% from the line and another shoots 84.5% from the line, then it's not a sure thing that the 2nd player is a better FT shooter than the 1st, but it does initially lead one to believe so. Obviously there could be other factors. For example say the that each have only played 10 games but the 2nd player has played 3 of those games against a team with a player who committed 5 lane violations while he was shooting, thus wiping out 5 misses. The 1st player has yet to play this idiot who steps in the lane so frequently. Stats are a rough guide, but you truley have to look at many factors sometimes.

Still would you rather have someone playing center for you and getting 6 rebounds in 40 minutes or one getting 5.5 rebounds in 20 minutes combined with one getting 3.5 rebounds in 15 minutes?

LRB · 12-01-2003, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jamisonite
per 48 minutes are the most leading stats ever. So basically if i played 1 minute a game and got 2pts and 1 reb per game id lead the league in per 48 mins

I wouldn't say that they are the least leading, but they certainly are less leading than most.

sike · 12-01-2003, 07:11 PM

I wouldn't say that they are the least leading, but they certainly are less leading than most.[/quote]

great, we've gotton so desperate that we're talking about "less leading" stats....

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

LRB · 12-01-2003, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
I wouldn't say that they are the least leading, but they certainly are less leading than most.

great, we've gotton so desperate that we're talking about "less leading" stats....

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img][/quote]

Sike stats are a tool not an absolute rule of nature. They help give us insight, but should never replace thinking and analysing for ourselves. Any stat no matter how well crafted has the potential to mislead if not used very carefully.

Psychedelic Fuzz · 12-01-2003, 07:22 PM

or the potential to be manipulated and used to back up virtually any point one can make

FilthyFinMavs · 12-01-2003, 07:50 PM

One thing I hate is when a poster tries to use per 48 minutes in a debate or argument. However, I think per 48 minutes isn't much of a misleading stat when you have some sort of guidelines when ranking players in per 48 minutes. I don't think you should rank people who play 3 minutes a game into that ranking or anyone who at this point hasn't played more than 8 games.

Chiwas · 12-01-2003, 09:05 PM

I think the 48 minutes statistics have minimums to not allow people with 1 minute per game or somesuch statistics to lead the rankings.

For example, I watched the top 50 rebounders and the least rebounds is 41 -Bradley, at 49th- and nobody has less than 12 games played.

Also I checked the efficiency rating and there are only players with more than 12 games.

However, I couldn't find any clue about the minimum minutes. It has to exist, though, to not mix apples with oranges.

Chiwas · 12-01-2003, 09:18 PM

Now I put only absolute statistics, that's not per-48 minutes. I deleted one from Nash, two from Dirk, and NONE from Walker or Finley. Howard keeps one and nobody else is ranked besides him and the Big Four. (I think they put only the top 20 in each category)

Travis Best -- Not ranked

Shawn Bradley -- Not ranked

Marquis Daniels -- Not ranked

Tony Delk -- Not ranked

Michael Finley
Ranks #11 in the NBA in Minutes Played(643.0)
Ranks #19 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Made(27.0)
Ranks #16 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goal Attempts(77.0)
Ranks #10 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover(1.15)

Danny Fortson -- Not ranked

Josh Howard
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover(1.67)

Antwan Jamison -- Not ranked

Eduardo Najera --Not ranked

Steve Nash
Ranks #4 in the NBA in Assists Per Game(7.5)
Ranks #17 in the NBA in Three-Point Field-Goal Percentage(0.423)
Ranks #6 in the NBA in Free-Throw Percentage(0.9)
Ranks #6 in the NBA in Assists(120.0)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Triple-doubles(1.0)
Ranks #9 in the NBA in Total Turnovers(51.0)
Ranks #10 in the NBA in Turnovers Per Game(3.19)

Dirk Nowitzki
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Free-Throw Percentage(0.869)
Ranks #14 in the NBA in Free Throws(73.0)
Ranks #17 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds(94.0)
Ranks #15 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game(6.3)
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Double-doubles(5.0)
Ranks #19 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking(20.13)

Antoine Walker
Ranks #11 in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game(9.8)
Ranks #14 in the NBA in Minutes Played(625.0)
Ranks #14 in the NBA in Field Goals Made(121.0)
Ranks #8 in the NBA in Field Goal Attempts(282.0)
Ranks #9 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goal Attempts(81.0)
Ranks #19 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds(46.0)
Ranks #7 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds(121.0)
Ranks #12 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game(7.1)
Ranks #9 in the NBA in Total Rebounds(167.0)
Ranks #13 in the NBA in Double-doubles(7.0)
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Total Efficiency Points(329.0)

FilthyFinMavs · 12-01-2003, 09:40 PM

NASH IS 2ND IN THE LEAGUE IN TRIPLE DOUBLES!!! You know, looking at those stats you'd think Walker was our franchise player. I'm a bit dissapointed in Dirk's rankings. I'd expect him to be atleast top 10 in one of hte categories but that game he got injured hurt him severely.

LoveMyMavs14 · 12-01-2003, 09:45 PM

Per 48 min. statistics CAN be useful, depending on the player and situation. One of those is our very own Steve Nash.

Stephon Marbury averags 40.9 mpg, and 8.5 apg.
Steve averages just 27.9 mpg (due to his "frailty" and the need to rest him), and 7.5 apg. It is very likely that given more minutes, he could average as many or more assists than Marbury.

Nash averages 11.6 assists per 48 minutes
Marbury averages 9.9 assists per 48 minutes

MightyToine · 12-02-2003, 02:33 AM

Quote:

You know, looking at those stats you'd think Walker was our franchise player. I'm a bit dissapointed in Dirk's rankings. I'd expect him to be atleast top 10 in one of hte categories but that game he got injured hurt him severely.

you know what the funny things is, filthyfinmavs?

Walker has been doing *this* All his career thus far....Nothing has changed...He is always involved and contributed in every category and it shows. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

LRB · 12-02-2003, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
NASH IS 2ND IN THE LEAGUE IN TRIPLE DOUBLES!!! You know, looking at those stats you'd think Walker was our franchise player. I'm a bit dissapointed in Dirk's rankings. I'd expect him to be atleast top 10 in one of hte categories but that game he got injured hurt him severely.

Well I'm a bit disapointe in Dirk's performance so far. He definitely needs to step it up. He's still playing good, just not at the level that he can and should play at.

FilthyFinMavs · 12-02-2003, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MightyToine

Quote:

You know, looking at those stats you'd think Walker was our franchise player. I'm a bit dissapointed in Dirk's rankings. I'd expect him to be atleast top 10 in one of hte categories but that game he got injured hurt him severely.

you know what the funny things is, filthyfinmavs?

Walker has been doing *this* All his career thus far....Nothing has changed...He is always involved and contributed in every category and it shows. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

All I heard about the guy is tha the likes to jack up 3's. I never heard anyone talking how good of a rebounder he was. All I heard was the negative about Walker.

FilthyFinMavs · 12-02-2003, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
NASH IS 2ND IN THE LEAGUE IN TRIPLE DOUBLES!!! You know, looking at those stats you'd think Walker was our franchise player. I'm a bit dissapointed in Dirk's rankings. I'd expect him to be atleast top 10 in one of hte categories but that game he got injured hurt him severely.

Well I'm a bit disapointe in Dirk's performance so far. He definitely needs to step it up. He's still playing good, just not at the level that he can and should play at.

I agree. Hopefully this sit out is beneficial to him and the Mavs. I'm hoping that Dirk was suffering from injury earlier this season which is what hurt his play.

sbjensen · 12-02-2003, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Chiwas
I think the 48 minutes statistics have minimums to not allow people with 1 minute per game or somesuch statistics to lead the rankings.

For example, I watched the top 50 rebounders and the least rebounds is 41 -Bradley, at 49th- and nobody has less than 12 games played.

Also I checked the efficiency rating and there are only players with more than 12 games.

However, I couldn't find any clue about the minimum minutes. It has to exist, though, to not mix apples with oranges.

I'm sure that's true, but it still doesn't explain why Danny's not on the list. Danny has more rebs than Bradley. Maybe Danny's below the total minutes threshold, but that seems unlikely.