Retooled roster pushes Howard to Mavs' bench - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

MavsFanFinley · 10-09-2004, 01:01 AM

Retooled roster pushes Howard to Mavs' bench
Minutes will have to be earned behind Daniels, Finley, Stackhouse

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

It didn't take long for Josh Howard to get the news. He figured it out when the Mavericks got Jerry Stackhouse in a trade with Washington.

It was confirmed at the start of training camp. He's the odd man out, the fourth wheel on a tricycle of players who will share the bulk of playing time at small forward and shooting guard.

"Coach has already told me I'm going to have to get mop-up minutes," Howard said Friday. "I knew coming into this year I wasn't going to play that much. I guess it'll be another learning year for me."

Howard, the 29th pick of the 2003 draft, had a nice rookie season in which he averaged 8.6 points and 5.5 rebounds. But it was his good friend Marquis Daniels who came alive late in the season, got the big contract in the summer and now is penciled in as the starter at shooting guard.

With Michael Finley starting at small forward and Stackhouse as the primary backup, Don Nelson knows what that means.

"No, I can't keep all four of them happy," Nelson said. "For sure, they all deserve to play. But there will be a pecking order. It's a good problem to have.

"It'll work itself out, but there will be some moments when somebody is going to want to play more – probably all of them. I understand that."

But there's not much he can do about it. Nelson wants to keep Finley's minutes closer to 30 per game than 40. Daniels is going to play more than he sits, assuming his sprained left ankle heals as expected and he begins playing next week. Stackhouse has been anointed the sixth man. And Howard? He figures there's one sure-fire way to get on the court.

"I'm going to have to go out and do the dirty work like Eddie [Najera] did," he said.

Howard is not disgruntled. He loves being a Maverick, so he'll adapt to whatever role he gets.

"I'm going to have to," he said. "You have to get on the court first [to produce]. I'm not going to ever doubt myself. I know they can get rid of me if they want to."

No chance of that yet. Howard's future is too bright.

twelli · 10-09-2004, 01:12 AM

Josh shouldn't be worried too much. His time will come. He's the kind of player who can impress the coach in just a few minutes of playing time. Maybe Stack is traded again before we know it...

dude1394 · 10-09-2004, 01:25 AM

He needs to spend a lot more time on his shot if he wants to get a lot of time in this league.

fifteenth man · 10-09-2004, 01:58 AM

I sure hope he doesn't get pigeon holed.... relegated to the "dirty work" role without a chance to develop a complete game.

rakesh.s · 10-09-2004, 11:19 PM

nellie's already got two strikes and the season hasn't even started

1. howard on the bench
2. dampier 20 minutes blah blah blah

gimme a break..stackhouse should be coming off the bench when there are scoring droughts..howard has to stay in the game just for his rebounding presence

blah blah blah

edit: eh, ok scratch no. 2..

grndmstr_c · 10-09-2004, 11:51 PM

Jesus, people. Nellie said nothing about giving Damp 20 mpg. That was Basketball Jonesss who said that.

basketball jonessss · 10-10-2004, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Jesus, people. Nellie said nothing about giving Damp 20 mpg. That was Basketball Jonesss who said that.

It was my translation of his thought process.

"Damp looks good out there." Translation. I hope I can get 20 minutes out of Dampier.

Real translation I would never have traded for Dampier. Now what in the hell am I going to do. Damn Cuban has told me to play a center or he would fire me. My small dreams and point forward concept are taking a beating. I am trying to reinvent the game, that why I like my centers shooting 3's and my point guard posting up. My vision and legacy are crumbling.

dirk2003 · 10-10-2004, 12:30 AM

you need to make it crystal clear when you give ur own opinion so that it does not look like nellies....

sike · 10-10-2004, 02:19 AM

basketball jonessss, it might be better if you were a bit clearer from now on....we have several posters here who have weak hearts [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

MavKikiNYC · 10-10-2004, 10:26 AM

I really hate to see a player like Howard with so much up-side, who gives the Mavericks so much of what they need in terms of athleticism and defensive/hustle mentality, pushed to the bench iin favor of a one-dimensional career-loser like Crackhouse.

I also prefer Howard's game to Daniels'--I am curious to see whether Daniels can sustain the flash of potential he showed last year, continue to improve and produce when it counts, and show some of the same potential on defense.

Howard should be fighting for a starting spot, not fighting for scraps.

Murphy3 · 10-10-2004, 10:32 AM

It will be a shame if Howard does not log 20 minutes per game.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-10-2004, 11:08 AM

Howard is gonna get minutes I just don't think they will be consistent. If it was up to me i'd start Josh as our 3 but i'm not in charge of the Mavs. He should be getting more minutes than Stack.

MavKikiNYC · 10-10-2004, 12:19 PM

Quote:

If it was up to me i'd start Josh as our 3 ...

I so agree.

Cybertx · 10-11-2004, 05:31 PM

I'm sure most of us would agree that Fin is better at 2 that at 3 i'm already worried about our defense at 3 Fin will look bad against some of the 3 in the league.

And i'm not still sold in Daniels instead of Howard in the starter 5.

Psychedelic Fuzz · 10-11-2004, 10:16 PM

I think everyone needs to relax.
This is a Don Nelson-coached team. Howard, not a center, not an offensive liability, will get some time.

alby · 10-11-2004, 10:21 PM

Cuban didn't sign TAW's contract =]

alby · 10-11-2004, 10:22 PM

Before we get too far, how serious is Marquis's injury right now?

mavsman55 · 10-11-2004, 10:23 PM

Coming into last year, Howard wasn't supposed to play that much at all and ended up averaging a little over 23 mpg (I think that's what it was). Now that Don Nelson knows what he's capable of doing, that number will improve. Even with Stackhouse here.

sike · 10-11-2004, 10:44 PM

Howard will not average 23 a game. Unless he is takeing someone elses minutes...

EricaLubarsky · 10-11-2004, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
Howard will not average 23 a game. Unless he is takeing someone elses minutes...

if he earns the minutes in pre-season, let him take minutes from Stack and Daniels. Since Daniels will probably be coming in injured, Howard has a perfect opportunity to prove himself.

sike · 10-12-2004, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
Howard will not average 23 a game. Unless he is takeing someone elses minutes...

if he earns the minutes in pre-season, let him take minutes from Stack and Daniels. Since Daniels will probably be coming in injured, Howard has a perfect opportunity to prove himself.

fine with me, my comment was more to how the line up was being set up....JHo deserves more than he got last year....we'll have to wait and see how bad Daniels is injured. I could see a lineup of JT/FinJHo/Dirk/Damp as being their best.

Simon2 · 10-11-2004, 11:55 PM

This is BS. Josh Howard should not be getting mop up minutes. I hope he doesn't get disgruntled. Actually, this is one time where a injury might be helpful. Maybe not a serious one but will allow Josh to develop more and keep the other player fresh for the playoffs.

grndmstr_c · 10-12-2004, 12:16 AM

FYI, according to the new story at the DMN Daniels' ankle was just re-examined and no problems were found, and Nellie is apparently planning on starting Josh in the preseason games that Quis doesn't take part in because he wants Stack to get acclimated to the 6th man role.

grndmstr_c · 10-12-2004, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Daniel's and Terry won't be in the game for defensive purposes. That's why I like Howard starting. With Daniel's he's going to be in the game so Nellie can have 5 scoring options on the floor at the same time. This is exactly what he did last season.

A starting lineup of JT/Quis/Fin/Dirk/Damp may be filled with guys who can score, but it's a far more balanced team (offense vs. defense) than what we fielded to start the game much of the time last year. Granted, I think we'd be better defensively and on the glass with Josh and Finley on the wings than we can expect to be with Quis and Fin, but it's worth noting that we have yet to see the whole starting lineup as Nellie envisions it, and if Quis can bring the all-around game he flashed at the end of last year I think things will be just fine.

DubOverdose · 10-12-2004, 12:30 AM

I bet they just want to make sure Marquis is 100% before they even think of letting his feet touch the court. You wouldn't want a starter to be reinjured right before the season starts and delay the gelling process even further.

Mavs Maniac · 10-12-2004, 11:41 PM

I just hope Fin's shot will be there. Am I the only one that think Fin's skills are deminishing QUICKLY?? I agree that when Fin is "on" he's lights out. Just seems like to me those "on" times are getting fewer and further between!

Max Power · 10-13-2004, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Mavs Maniac
Am I the only one that think Fin's skills are deminishing QUICKLY??

Show me the stats. The only time Finley played poorly last year for a 5 game stretch was the playoffs and he was coming off an injury. But if you can show stats that prove otherwise I'd like to see them.

grndmstr_c · 10-12-2004, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Am I the only one that think Fin's skills are deminishing QUICKLY??

Fin shot a higher percentage from three point land and overall last year than he did year prior. You're certainly not the only one who thinks that, but the stats suggest that you and your nay-saying cohorts are very wrong.

fifteenth man · 10-13-2004, 12:55 AM

Man do we need for the season to start! We have nothing to do, Mav's related of course, but repeat the same arguments ad infinitum.

Who should start at the 2/3?
Fin stinks! No he's great!
Nellie stinks! No he's great!
Mav's can's play D! They will this year!
We will miss Nash! JT and Devin are going to make us say Nash who!
Mbenga looks like a player! Nellie said Damp is wonderful which we all know really means that he sucks!

SEASON START....SEASON START.....SEASON START

fifteenth man · 10-13-2004, 12:55 AM

Man do we need for the season to start! We have nothing to do, Mav's related of course, but repeat the same arguments ad infinitum.

Who should start at the 2/3?
Fin stinks! No he's great!
Nellie stinks! No he's great!
Mav's can't play D! They will this year!
We will miss Nash! JT and Devin are going to make us say Nash who!
Mbenga looks like a player! Nellie said Damp is wonderful which we all know really means that he sucks!

SEASON START....SEASON START.....SEASON START

dirno2000 · 10-13-2004, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Man do we need for the season to start! We have nothing to do, Mav's related of course, but repeat the same arguments ad infinitum.

Who should start at the 2/3?
Fin stinks! No he's great!
Nellie stinks! No he's great!
Mav's can't play D! They will this year!
We will miss Nash! JT and Devin are going to make us say Nash who!
Mbenga looks like a player! Nellie said Damp is wonderful which we all know really means that he sucks!

Don't forget:

Bradley Sucks! No he doesn't, he has a good plus/minus!

Nov. 2nd can't come soon enough.

fifteenth man · 10-13-2004, 01:09 AM

I'm going to measure my plus/minus this season.

Point Differential when I watch - Point Differential when I don't watch

FilthyFinMavs · 10-13-2004, 01:38 AM

"but it's a far more balanced team (offense vs. defense) than what we fielded to start the game much of the time last year. "

That doesn't really say much though. I do agree we are alot better than last season but anything is better than what we had last season.

sike · 10-13-2004, 01:37 AM

I'm going to measure how far it is from my tv to my fridge....and how many steps it takes....

fifteenth man · 10-13-2004, 01:39 AM

Just teach your dog to get your beer for you. Why waist that energy you're going to need for yelling at the refs...or Nellie.

sike · 10-13-2004, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: fifteenth man
Just teach your dog to get your beer for you. Why waist that energy you're going to need for yelling at the refs...or Nellie.

thanks for reminding me that I have no dog! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

fifteenth man · 10-13-2004, 01:45 AM

Quis game is a lot like Sam Cassel's or Nick the quick's... or like Antawn Jamison if he was a guard. He's not a take it to the rack guy... but he is a take it to the middle of the lane and float a shot over everyone guy...and he is very clever in the lane...he's able to get inside and sneak the ball up off the backboard while the shot blockers are trying to figure out what he's doing.

So he's a good midrange guy who can get his shot off near the basket too. If he develops a jumper to go with it he'll have a pretty versitile offensive game.

FreshJive · 10-13-2004, 06:27 AM

For me a gaurd who drives and scores down low is a take it to the hole guy. He doesn't necesarily have to get a layup or dunk, although he is certainly capable of it. I should have said: He has the dribble to get into the lane and the ability to score with regularity when he gets there without relying on a fadeaway.

MavsFanFinley · 10-13-2004, 10:49 AM

Mavericks Notes
Howard's hard work not going unnoticed

By Dwain Price
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

DALLAS - Earlier this summer, Josh Howard questioned whether he was going to be the odd-man out of the Mavericks' four-man shooting guard/small forward rotation.

After the Mavs acquired Jerry Stackhouse, Howard knew that meant added competition for minutes that already included Michael Finley and Marquis Daniels. As the Mavs open preseason play at 7 tonight in New Orleans, Howard doesn't have to worry anymore.

"My best player during training camp has been Josh Howard," coach Don Nelson said. "Nobody seems to talk much about him, but he's been doing so well for so long ... I think it's time to give him some credit."

With Daniels out of tonight's game with a sprained right ankle, Howard will start at small forward against the Hornets.

"For those worried about Josh Howard not playing, you can forget that," Nelson said. "He's going to play.

"He's a good player, and he's taken a step in the right direction from this summer until now. I'm really pleased with his performance in this training camp, and he's got the coach's eye."

Howard, 6-7, said he was pleased with Nelson's assessment of his training camp.

"Tell him, 'Thank you,' " Howard said.

Mavs owner Mark Cuban said Howard has the same game instincts as Utah forward Andrei Kirilenko, who played in last season's All-Star Game in only his third season.

"Josh reminds me more and more of Kirilenko, how he plays," Cuban said. "He's a super smart defender, and he has the ability to impact the game defensively.

"He's just got to know what he can and can't do offensively. We've got guys who can defend, but Josh is a guy who can have an impact on a game defensively. You don't find a lot of those guys."

Nelson wants Howard to assume the "dirty work" role Eduardo Najera played the past four seasons. Howard came to camp determined to build off what he accomplished last year. The sore left knee that has limited Daniels' mobility in training camp has given Howard much more court time.

"I just think I'm more focused this year," Howard said.

Chemistry test

Dirk Nowitzki, the Mavs' go-to guy, can't wait for tonight's game against the Hornets so he can better gauge just what type of team management built in the off-season.

With nine new faces, the Mavs have been predicted by some to finish as high as fourth in the Western Conference, and by others to miss the playoffs altogether.

"We've got so many new guys that [establishing chemistry] is going to be very difficult," Nowitzki said. "We've all got to find a rhythm somehow.

"Every single day is very important for us in preseason. Hopefully, by November, we're going to be a very sharp team."

mary · 10-13-2004, 11:06 AM

Quote:

With Daniels out of tonight's game with a sprained right ankle, Howard will start at small forward against the Hornets

Quote:

The sore left knee that has limited Daniels' mobility in training camp has given Howard much more court time.

Does Daniels have 2 injuries?