Donnie on with Norm this morning...what the Mavs need

[mary]

I didn't catch the whole thing, just a bit on the way to work this morning.

Donnie said they had interest in the everthing from about the 20th pick and the mid-second round. They probably talked to just about every team, but they either wanted one of our young guys and/or next year's pick - didn't want to sacrifice too much of the Mavs future.

He had no interest in the Lithuanian guy, Skevy - he may not be ready to play for another 3 to 4 years and the Mavs already have Pavel and DJ. He liked the LSU kid. He was very impressed with the pool of players that Texas was able to provide (honestly I wasn't really interested in the draft talk)

He addressed 3 needs that the Mavs will try to fill.

1. An athletic big guy - and he named this one first. Of course, he wasn't going to give Norm names, but he said they need to add some athleticism to the frontline. Norm asked him what was the status of Steven Hunter. Donnie said Hunter will be a FA and will probably be a sought-after guy in the market.

2. If they can't find a way to keep Finley, then they will have a "big hole" to fill. No further elaboration. But if there were any doubt before about the Mavs intentions, you can throw them out the window. Finley is gone.

3. May need a third back up PG, depending on what DA does in free agency.


Edit to add: Oh yeah, I think he mentioned that they "picked up" a couple of guys last night...I'm assuming to invite them to Summer league...didn't catch their names.

[The Miles]

[madape]

When he mentioned that the guy they were after in the late first was WANYE SIMIEN, I almost puked.

This is DEFINITELY no longer the team I used to love.

[DubOverdose]

Originally posted by: madape
When he mentioned that the guy they were after in the late first was WANYE SIMIEN, I almost puked.

This is DEFINITELY no longer the team I used to love.

Simien would have been a great pick up. If he were healthy in college, he would have been a high lottery pick.

[HexNBA]

Seeing how I'm Dutch, I sure would love that Miles [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[TheFlyingGooseman]

why are the mavs trying to be like the phoenix suns. We don't need an athletic big guy. We need defense.

[mary]

From Garcia, FWST

The Mavs locked up Rice guard Michael Harris and Oakland University swingman Rawle Marshall for the summer league team. They're also talking to several free agents, including North Crowley and Kansas graduate Keith Langford, and Texas product Jason Klotz.

[MavKikiNYC]

2. If they can't find a way to keep Finley, then they will have a "big hole" to fill. No further elaboration. But if there were any doubt before about the Mavs intentions, you can throw them out the window. Finley is gone.

Interesting how every media reference to Finley drives home that his departure is a fait accompli.

[LRB]

2. If they can't find a way to keep Finley, then they will have a "big hole" to fill. No further elaboration. But if there were any doubt before about the Mavs intentions, you can throw them out the window. Finley is gone.

It's not like anyone's holding a gun to their heads and forcing them to chunk Fin. Sure it's possible that they can save some doe by axing him, but there may very well be no way to replace his talent in the near future because of salary cap rules. So if the Mavs, not talking about some other hypothetical or real team but the Mavs, can't aquire a replacement for Fin's talent, It will just be Cuban giving up on a championship in order to potentially save some bucks. I just don't like that message.

[jayC]

Right Finley is the key to the mavs championship hopes. Is this the same guy that had consecutive sub 10 point games in 40 minutes a game.

If the mavs trade for Paul Pierce or another shooting guard Finley will be a moot point.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: jayC
Right Finley is the key to the mavs championship hopes. Is this the same guy that had consecutive sub 10 point games in 40 minutes a game.

If the mavs trade for Paul Pierce or another shooting guard Finley will be a moot point.

No Fin is not the key, but his talent is definitely part of the puzzle. If we trade for Paul pierce or any other shooting guard we will have to give up talent most likely one of our 2/3's. This will cost us depth. If we had Fin he could provide us the depth needed. Last year we had 4 good 2/3's and at times we were shorthanded at those positions because of injuries. Even if we didn't trade any of our 2/3's to get a top shooting guard we'd still have them as trade ammo to acquire other needed pieces which still having great depth at the 2/3 position.

Now add in the fact that Fin was playing hurt for the latter part of last year, it's highly likely that he'll come back much better this year. Fin was our best 2 guard last year and wasn't even playing at his best.

Bottom line is if we cut Fin we get no talent for that. We can never make up that talent gap. We can make other deals which might bring in great talent. But if we'd kept Fin, those deals would have still been possible and we'd have more talent. This move is moving us away from a championship not towards it.

Now add on to the fact that this move is highly likely to make it much more difficult to get FA's to come here and probably to resign our players when they become FA's.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Is Finley not tradeable 2 years down the road? You can dog his play all you want but any player is tradeable with 1 year on their contract left. We release Finley we recieve nothing. That will be 2 years straight of releasing players and not getting anything in return. That trend isn't going to benefit the Mavs.

[alby]

Whether the team will save money or not with the release of Michael Finley, don't you think Mark Cuban has all the numbers and all the projected numbers analyzed to the ground already, he definitely has alot more access than any of us can imagine? I am sure Mark Cuban knows what he is doing, if Finley is let go, we will be saving money.

[cripple balls]

I'd take Rice's Michael Harris starting over Finley...

[dirno2000]

Now add on to the fact that this move is highly likely to make it much more difficult to get FA's to come here and probably to resign our players when they become FA's.

I don't think waiving Finley will hurt our chances of signing FA's anymore than Playstations and fluffy bench chairs helped them. Players know it's a business...if Shaq can be traded anybody's expendable.

FA will still go for money 1st and a chance to win 2nd. PXH is about to trade Quinton Richardson after signing him as a FA just a year ago. Sac traded Webber after he built that team back to respectability...it happens all over the league. If our young guys develop and we continue to win, Dirk will resign...if we're losing he may want to leave but unlike Nash a team will be willing to sing and trade for him.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: dirno2000

I don't think waiving Finley will hurt our chances of signing FA's anymore than Playstations and fluffy bench chairs helped them. Players know it's a business...if Shaq can be traded anybody's expendable.

FA will still go for money 1st and a chance to win 2nd. PXH is about to trade Quinton Richardson after signing him as a FA just a year ago. Sac traded Webber after he built that team back to respectability...it happens all over the league. If our young guys develop and we continue to win, Dirk will resign...if we're losing he may want to leave but unlike Nash a team will be willing to sing and trade for him.

Not always true, in fact often not true. Look at Kandi, he wouldn't even talk to us the last time he was a free agent even though we had the same money as the Twolves to spend and had finshed tied with the best record in basketball the previous year and went to the WCF.

Sorry, business is business. And business involves personal relationships. If you consistently crap on people word gets around and people will avoid doing business with you if they think you'll screw them on the 1st opportunity.

[dirno2000]

Not always true, in fact often not true. Look at Kandi, he wouldn't even talk to us the last time he was a free agent even though we had the same money as the Twolves to spend and had finshed tied with the best record in basketball the previous year and went to the WCF.

Sorry, business is business. And business involves personal relationships. If you consistently crap on people word gets around and people will avoid doing business with you if they think you'll screw them on the 1st opportunity.

LRB you know Kandi is not a good example...Kevin McHale was his agents college roomate. A FA is going to have too look long and hard to find a team that has never traded a player that helped them. And how is Cuban screwing Finley? He's made the man rich beyond his wildest dreams...if he manages his money right, his childeren and their chidren will grow up filthy rich. He has no obligation to keep him for the length of his contract, only to play him for the lenght of the contract.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: dirno2000

LRB you know Kandi is not a good example...Kevin McHale was his agents college roomate. A FA is going to have too look long and hard to find a team that has never traded a player that helped them. And how is Cuban screwing Finley? He's made the man rich beyond his wildest dreams...if he manages his money right, his childeren and their chidren will grow up filthy rich. He has no obligation to keep him for the length of his contract, only to play him for the lenght of the contract.

Replace Kandi with Mourning. Or how about Karl Malone, or Gary Payton, or Mutumbo, or Jim Jackson, or any number of free agents. Or how about naming 1 single marquee FA, and I mean marquee for the MLE, that the Mavs have landed.

Fin definitely won't starve nor will his family. But if you have a choice between elsewhere and here for close to the same money, and remember we don't have a state income tax so usually that makes it more money here, players will choose not to come here so because they know that cuban will ship them to siberia if he thought it would make him money or it could ge a more valuable player in return. So only if the player is willing to risk that will they come here. For many the difference between 4.8 million and 4.65 million doesn't justify that risk when they feel that they can go somewhere with a better reputation for player loyalty.

[alby]

Even though the NBA is a business, loyalty and personal relationships is vital just like any other business.

[dirno2000]

Replace Kandi with Mourning. Or how about Karl Malone, or Gary Payton, or Mutumbo, or Jim Jackson, or any number of free agents. Or how about naming 1 single marquee FA, and I mean marquee for the MLE, that the Mavs have landed.

So what's your point? Is it that Cuban's lack of loyalty caused those guys to sign elswhere? Payton and Malone had a better chance to win with Shaq, Morning wanted to play in the East because it would be easier on his body and NJ had been to the Finals. I don't even remember going after Mutombo or Jackson.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

It's probably that guys like James Posey, Jalen Rose, and Allan Houston will be waived so I dunno why people think we still can't get a decent 2/3 out there. Rose would be a terrific player to bring off of the bench. He's as selfish as they come but he isn't afraid to take big shots at crunch time. I also love his 3 pointers. This is all speculation anyway, but it isn't as if we can NEVER SIGN ANOTHER SHOOTING GUARD! like people are making it out to be.

[dirno2000]

Exactly...two guard is the easiest position in the league to replace.

[alby]

Yup, and max contracts should be only given to players such as, Tmac and Kobe. IMO, not even Ray Allen and Redd should be getting max contracts.

[FilthyFinMavs]

I doubt the Grizz release Posey over Cardinal or JWill who everyone thinks will be released. Allan Houston is not an upgrade over Finley and i'm sick of seeing his name even mentioned. How can you contend with a guy who can't even start for the Knicks? We might as well just go with Stackhouse and Daniels if they aren't dealt by the time the season starts.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

You mean an upgrade over jumping and shooting? Look I don't want to lose FInley for nothing the same as the next person, but the pessimism as if we can't get 13-15 points from another 2/3 player is ridiculous. Anyways I never contended with Allan Houston, I said I wouldn't mind having Rose if you had read that correctly.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
You mean an upgrade over jumping and shooting? Look I don't want to lose FInley for nothing the same as the next person, but the pessimism as if we can't get 13-15 points from another 2/3 player is ridiculous. Anyways I never contended with Allan Houston, I said I wouldn't mind having Rose if you had read that correctly.

Well whether its Rose, Houston or whoever, they currently aren't better than what we have right now so why even bother using our mid-levle on them? We already have a clog in that position anyway. Might as well go with Daniels and Stack even though they are inconsistent as hell.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
You mean an upgrade over jumping and shooting? Look I don't want to lose FInley for nothing the same as the next person, but the pessimism as if we can't get 13-15 points from another 2/3 player is ridiculous. Anyways I never contended with Allan Houston, I said I wouldn't mind having Rose if you had read that correctly.

It's not just about finding some smuck to score 13 to 15 points for us. It's finding someone who's overall play allows us to score more than our opponents do as well as Finely. Last year there was no one playing the 2 guard who did as well as Fin. Not stack and not Quis. I doubt we get anyone close for the vet minimum either. and if we have to spend the MLE to get it, still doubtful IMO, then we can't use that to land an athletic big man. If we go to trades, then we have to give up talent.

Cutting Fin puts us behind in talent versus keeping him in any realistic scenario. We can always get better in talent, but if we had Fin we could be even better.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Maybe in talent, but in actual production I'm not so sure. If we signed a player like Raja Bell who can get you 10 points a game but plays better defense then Finley, wouldn't that be more ideal under Avery Johnson?

[LRB]

Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
Maybe in talent, but in actual production I'm not so sure. If we signed a player like Raja Bell who can get you 10 points a game but plays better defense then Finley, wouldn't that be more ideal under Avery Johnson?

probably not. Raja is a decent player, and I wouldn't mind having him back. But he's way short of Fin in what he can do to help us win ball games. And he doesn't come close to spreading out the defense the way Fin does. Fin's also bigger and more atheletic. Sure there are some things Raja does better but not near enough. Besides we could have Raja and Fin.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

The problem is Fin doesn't use being bigger and more athletic to his advantage anymore. The only thing where it helps currently is his fade-away jumper. When Finley is on, its great, but it's soooo inconsistent now that I'm just not in the opinion that we can't fill in the hole. Maybe it won't be everything on the offensive end but it would be advantageous to get someone who plays some defense too. Maybe I'm just optimistic. We've never had problems getting players in the past so I don't think it will be a problem getting a decent player there.

[EricaLubarsky]

loyalty is much more important to older veterans that are tired of moving than it is to young guys.

I can see loyalty affecting Joe Blow, age 35, wants to play 4 more years, has family and doesnt want to move them

I can't see it affect Joe Blow II, age 20, wants more money in his pocket/wants to win like he did in college, no family

I also cant see it affect Joe Blow III, age 36, body is wearing down, looking for 1-2 year contract just to play a little bit

[Murphy3]

I"m not too worried about loyalty with regards to Fin. I question just how badly he wants to be a Mav. He had to be 'reminded' multiple times last year to basically put forth effort on the court. Hey, guys that want to be here bust their ass.

[#1MavsFan]

I question just how badly he wants to be a Mav.

Enough to play through a really messed up ankle while taking a lot of undeserved blame from everyone... most people would have ended their season and had surgery right than and there. Seriously how can you question this? He's been a Mav for a long time and is probably the BIGGEST reason as to why we're a top tier team today. If playing through a potential season ending injury just to help your team win isn't busting your ass than what is?

[Movie Phone]

Originally posted by: #1MavsFan

Enough to play through a really messed up ankle while taking a lot of undeserved blame from everyone... most people would have ended their season and had surgery right than and there. Seriously how can you question this? He's been a Mav for a long time and is probably the BIGGEST reason as to why we're a top tier team today. If playing through a potential season ending injury just to help your team win isn't busting your ass than what is?

#1 mavs fan, you hit it on the nose right there. finley is always busting his ass for this team.

[thewillis12]

what about getting paid on how you play? fin hasnt been productive the past couple of years. i think mark has finally learned that money is limited to everyone so NOW he is starting to try and be more sensible with it rather than offering max contracts to everyone. however finley is a very very streaky player but i'd rather keep him than letting him walk off to the suns. if he goes there and phoenix wins a chamionship than the mavs will be the laughinstocks of the NBA for years to come.

[KennyDirk]

how does dallas become an attractive place for FA's to come when

A. you let the MVP walk because you thought he would break down.

B. you trade almost anyone and everyone that comes to your team.

C. Your owner is now becoming like donald sterling in that the most veteran person on this team who has been through it all, and wants to retire a mavs and win a championship with the mavs is going to be cut for savings and peanuts? Also we keep mentioning he went silent in the end of the playoffs what about in the beginning, if im not mistaken his timely shots to go along with JET's shooting helped us out of the Houston series, importantly his game won us game 3, and his support won games 4-5 and7. Also his shooting and 31 points did win us the game 2 against phx, even though dirk took the last shot, who kept us in the game? Finley...

so as much as i love being a mavs fan, by showing disloyalty to players like that if fin were to come back against us and was firing on all cylinders just like nash did, i would probably say we deserved it for what we're doing.

if fin goes and we by chance lose to the team hes on or he goes futher i bet you anything all you on the "Fin should go" bandwagon will be blasting cuban and say that stack and quis are the suck and that we should have never let fin go.

we will not draw any FA's this summer with or with out fin...we never usually do...

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally posted by: KennyDirk

we will not draw any FA's this summer with or with out fin...we never usually do...

Don't be so sure about that. Several veteran players will probably be waived just like Fin. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we picked up one of those.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: Movie Phone

#1 mavs fan, you hit it on the nose right there. finley is always busting his ass for this team.

He didn't bust his ass for the team at times last year. There were stretches during the season that if he wasn't scoring, he wasn't contributing anywhere else on the court simply because of lack of effort.

[aexchange]

[quote]
Originally posted by: Murphy3

He didn't bust his ass for the team at times last year. There were stretches during the season that if he wasn't scoring, he wasn't contributing anywhere else on the court simply because of lack of effort.

everyone on the team was guilty of this last year at some point in time. by your logic, bradley wouldn't have wanted to be a mav. dampier didn't want to be a mav with the same logic. or maybe dirk didn't want to be a mav.

[alby]

But the "leader" of the team shouldn't be called out by his head coach about his lack of production.