Finley among three Mavs now nursing ankles

[akaarod03]

Finley among three Mavs now nursing ankles

10:08 PM CST on Tuesday, November 9, 2004


By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News



ORLANDO – It would be OK to call the Mavericks the walking wounded, except that one of them couldn't walk.

Michael Finley became the latest in a strikingly long line of ankle injuries when he sprained his right ankle with 7:48 to go in the third quarter of Tuesday's 94-84 loss to Orlando. After limping to the locker room, he left TD Waterhouse Centre on crutches.

Coach Don Nelson called the injury a second-degree sprain. Marquis Daniels could not play basketball for nearly three months after a third-degree sprain suffered in the off-season.

And there is more bad news. While Daniels remains rusty, Josh Howard twisted his left ankle in the first quarter and Dirk Nowitzki reported that bone spurs in his right ankle have acted up during the last two games.

Add it up and the Mavericks barely have a leg to stand on.

"That's four of 'em," Nelson said. "We have our fill of ankle sprains."

Finley's appears to be the most severe. He's been ruled out of Thursday's game at Miami and there is a chance he will be sent home before the trip continues at New Jersey and Washington.

"It's always frustrating when you're not able to help your teammates," Finley said. "I've rolled it like that before, but after I ran back after the free throws, I knew it wasn't right. I just want to get back as soon as I can."

Finley stepped on Hedo Turkoglu's foot while driving to the basket.

Nowitzki, meanwhile, said the problem with his right ankle is similar to the problem in his left ankle that required surgery three summers ago.

"I think one of those spurs is a little irritated," he said. "It was sore before (Monday's) game and afterward it swelled up. If this only happens once or twice a year, it's OK. I don't want to have surgery if I don't have to."

Nowitzki considered not playing Tuesday and ended up shooting just 5-of-16 from the field, netting 20 points.

Not firing blanks: Don Nelson likes to talk about a six-shooter he starts each season with. He figures there's only a half-dozen times when he can go into the locker room and chew out his team.

If he yells any more than that, the players tend to treat it like he's crying wolf.

Nelson said, "I didn't feel like I used up a whole bullet," on Monday night when he challenged his team at the break against Golden State. Nelson was miffed that the Mavericks had gotten off to a poor start in consecutive games.

Holey-moly: There was a hole in the wall of the visiting locker room at TD Waterhouse Centre. It was strangely similar to the size of a large fist.

Shawn Bradley had to give it an examination.

"It was a center, definitely," he said, noting that the size of the punch was similar to the size of his balled-up fist.

Then he noticed another small nick in the wall just below the big hole.

"That must have been a sportswriter," he said.

Briefly: Marquis Daniels needed to round up 31 tickets for Tuesday's game to fulfill the requests of family and friends in the Orlando area, where he grew up. ... Which NBA player has a Batman tattoo on his left bicep? Orlando's Tony Battie, formerly of Texas Tech. ... Though they came in with the same rookie class, Devin Harris said he didn't know much about Orlando rookie Jameer Nelson. "I just know he was one of the last ones in the green room at the draft," Harris said. That's a bad thing. Nobody wants to sit back there while everybody else's name gets called." ... Count ESPN's Greg Anthony among those jumping on the Mavericks' bandwagon. He said recently that the Mavericks are a team that "could really dethrone" the Spurs as Texas' best team. "Potentially, this team could be the best in Texas when it's all said and done," Anthony said.

[Drbio]

Aw crap...this is horrible news.

[MavsFanFinley]

Send Finley home now. Don't let him or the coaching staff be tempted to play him on this road trip.

I don't even want to think about the bone spurs in Dirk's right ankle.

Not good news for Howard either. The hamstring, knee, and now the ankle will be giving him fits.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
Send Finley home now. Don't let him or the coaching staff be tempted to play him on this road trip.

agreed.

[akaarod03]

So who do you insert in the starting lineup? A rusty Daniels? Or a struggling Stackhouse? Give me Daniels. He played 30 minutes tonight...was 7-17 from the field...and I would say half of those misses were layups. He's not a 100%...but an 80% Daniels is better than the way Stackhouse is currently playing.

[MavsFanFinley]

So who do you insert in the starting lineup?

I would start Daniels for now. While I'm not impressed with his play yet, it's better than what Stackhouse has been giving.

More importantly--BOTH--will have to step up their games in Finley's absence and with Howard hobbling too.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Damn. How in the hell do all four have ankle problems? It's like a game ago as a fan i'm on top of the world. A game later and 4 of our key players have the same injury.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Another thing we are gonna struggle with is shooting. I don't know what to expect on Thursday. Hopefully not an assault.

[u2sarajevo]

Que lastima!

[4cwebb]

While Finley's injury is not good news, Dirk's sounds a bit worse. If it's swelling up already this season, he's in for a long season. How long did it take him to recover from his surgery on the other ankle (did it say in the article)?

[The Miles]

Blessing in disguise? This could be what Marquis has been needing to shake the rust and build his confidence.

I just hope Dirk stays healthy, that would be a big time blow to this team obviously.

[Dirkenstien]

that article hurts... and im pretty worried about Dirk's ankles.

We may all be in for a long season if this continues

[kidd's mavs]

if they need to rest dirk, there should be no hesitation. I would rather lose Dirk for a couple of games than see him fall apart midway through the season. however much time he needs to rest his ankles, I say they give it to him. don't even risk it!

[dirno2000]

Originally posted by: 4cwebb
While Finley's injury is not good news, Dirk's sounds a bit worse. If it's swelling up already this season, he's in for a long season. How long did it take him to recover from his surgery on the other ankle (did it say in the article)?

Since it was off season sugery, I don't know what his recovery time was, but there didn't seem to be any lingering effects when the season started. If I remember correctly, that's the year we started 14-0 and Dirk had his best season. It's something he's just going to have to deal with this season.

[FilthyFinMavs]

I sure hope we sit out whoever is nursing injuries. It's better to have them sit out at the beginning of the season than in the middle or the end. We can get some losses out the way early rather than when they really count.

[MavsFanFinley]

Finley sidelined with sprained right ankle

By Art Garcia
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

ORLANDO, Fla. - Mavericks guard Michael Finley will be sidelined for an indefinite period of time after spraining his right ankle in Tuesday night's 94-84 loss against the Orlando Magic at TD Waterhouse Centre.

Finley's injury wasn't the only one the Mavs dealt with while losing their first game of the season.

Dirk Nowitzki nearly sat out the game after experiencing swelling in his right ankle because of bone spurs. Josh Howard suffered a less serious left ankle sprain less than two minutes into the game but was able to return and play 31 minutes.

Finley, the team's second-leading scorer, was driving to the basket when he stepped on the left foot of Magic forward Hedo Turkoglu with 7:29 left in the third quarter. Finley's right ankle gave and he fell to the floor.

After the stoppage in play, he was able to walk under his own power and shoot two free throws. But he checked out of the game after that and went to the locker room to begin receiving treatment. X-rays revealed a second-degree sprain but no additional damage.

"I rolled it like that before and I played through it," said Finley, who finished with eight points in 20 minutes. "But this time, after I shot free throws, I knew it wasn't the same."

Finley has been sidelined by hamstring, calf and toe injuries at various times during the past three seasons. The Mavs' medical staff is considering sending him back to Dallas for further treatment instead of remaining with the team for the last three games of the four-game trip.

"[Injuries are] always frustrating, whether I'm playing good or bad," Finley said. "Just to be unable to help the team, I feel helpless. I'm just trying to get back as soon as I can."

Marquis Daniels will start in Finley's absence.

Nowitzki began feeling discomfort in his ankle after Monday night's 101-98 overtime win against Golden State. He had bone spurs removed from his left ankle three years ago and had considered similar surgery for his right ankle.

"If it only bothers me once a year, I don't think it's that big a deal," Nowitzki said.

Howard is worried his ankle injury could jeopardize his availability for Thursday's game at Miami.

"I hope not," said Howard, who grabbed 11 rebounds but missed all eight of his shots. "It's real sore. I just don't want to hurt it later on."

He can ask Daniels for advice. Daniels is still playing on a sprained left ankle that is far from 100 percent.

[FreshJive]

Finley was really looking good so far, too. sigh.....

[chumdawg]

Nellie told Norm Finley was going home and could miss as much as two weeks. (I think that's what he said, as far as the time goes.) Daniels starts.

[EricaLubarsky]

Not to pat myself on the back, but when I saw Finley go down, I estimated 2-3 weeks and that sounds true.

It really sucks to be right about that. I was hoping that I was wrong.

Anyway, Daniels may be nursing his ankle too, but he looked bad mentally more than physically. He just flinched going up, and he seemed hesitant getting back. His forward speed was excellent. I couldnt judge his lateral speed since everyone was playing such pokey defense. He looked pretty slow but thats hopefully just the sleep thing.

[kg_veteran]

Dirk's injury doesn't sound serious to me. He's had these problems with his ankles for a while now. He'll play through it.

As for Fin, it might be a blessing in disguise. It will allow Daniels to get back up to speed, Stackhouse to try to bring his game up to speed, and perhaps even more playing time for Devin Harris as a result.

[grndmstr_c]

I wonder if we might activate Dickau and send Fin to the IL for a stretch?

[sike]

"If it only bothers me once a year, I don't think it's that big a deal," Nowitzki said.

if this is more than just optimism, Dirk does not seem worried.
The Finley injury could actually help this team in the long run, getting Daniels back into his groove and allowing Dirk a few more attempts a game. For some reason everyone seems ok with the fact that Fin is taking nearly the same ammount of shots as Dirk...I am not. Dirk needs to get around 20 shots a game and as far as I'm concerned, dispite his good % those can come from Finley taking a few less.

I'll go on the record as predicting Dirk(if healthy) will seriously step up his game with Finley out.

[grndmstr_c]

In defense of Fin, he hasn't been attempting to score quite as much as Dirk (.51 scoring attempts per minute as compared to .55 for Dirk, those numbers take free throws into account, btw). Still, he's clearly been looking for his shot more than anyone else on the team other than Dirk. Up until the GS game he'd been shooting well enough to deserve being the second banana, but in general it will be important that every player on the team other than Dirk, and this goes double for Fin because of his seniority, really commit to passing the ball around.

[sike]

C said: really commit to passing the ball around.

I agree with this, but I still want to see a concerted effort to get Dirk more shots.

[sike]

In defense of Fin, he hasn't been attempting to score quite as much as Dirk (.51 scoring attempts per minute as compared to .55 for Dirk, those numbers take free throws into account, btw).

in your mind, knowing that Fin's shooting % will(and has the last two games) come down to Earth, do you really feel that this statistic should be so close, considering Dirk has shot 29 more free throws than Finley?

[u2sarajevo]

Did anyone hear Nellie on with Norm this morning? He said Dirk's "injury" was the least concern of all the ankle issues. And he confirmed that Fin will be out at least two weeks... maybe more.

I think Dirk's ankles become an issue at the start of each year... and then fade away with each dominant performance.

[sike]

he said it was a second degree sprain and possibly a third degree sprain...which is what Quis had

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
I wonder if we might activate Dickau and send Fin to the IL for a stretch?

Back to NVE-style small-ball! Harris/Dick at point, Daniels and Terry at the two. Stack at the three.

I dont know if I like that defensively at all.

[kg_veteran]

Even if activated, Dickau isn't going to play at all unless there are further injuries. Even without Finley, the Mavs will play Stackhouse, Daniels, and Howard all of the SG and SF minutes and Terry and Harris all of the PG minutes. And hell, they might even be forced to play a center 48 minutes every single night for a while.

[EricaLubarsky]

Howard needs a couple of days off doesnt he? If he is out, then that leaves us with only Stack and Daniels, who is recovering from a very severe ankle sprain.

BTW, it is absolutely wrong to think that Finley has a third degree sprain. While researching Daniels' condition, I discovered that 3rd degree sprains are when the tendon actually tears. That means that he would not be getting up. He'd be on crutches for weeks and his ankle would be wrapped up. I saw Finley get up, run and shoot FTs. That might not have been good for him, but he was able to which is the point.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Howard needs a couple of days off doesnt he? If he is out, then that leaves us with only Stack and Daniels, who is recovering from a very severe ankle sprain.

BTW, it is absolutely wrong to think that Finley has a third degree sprain. While researching Daniels' condition, I discovered that 3rd degree sprains are when the tendon actually tears. That means that he would not be getting up. He'd be on crutches for weeks and his ankle would be wrapped up. I saw Finley get up, run and shoot FTs. That might not have been good for him, but he was able to which is the point.

Have you ever had a torn tendon in your ankle? I tore a tendon in my right ankle while playing in an 8th grade basketball game. I was definitely able to 'get up'.

A lady at my office had multiple tears in her ankle while at work and she finished out the day. She walked around on it all day until around 8 o'clock at night. Yes, she did eventually end up going to the ER later in the day.

What's the point? The point is that it isn't necessarily an intelligent thing to throw out generalizations and blanket statements about injuries one way or the other.

I've seen a high school fullback tear an ACL one week and suit up to play the next week. I've seen a high school QB break a collarbone one week and suit up to play the following week as well. Was it an intelligent thing to do? No, of course not. But, it happened.

Regardless, to say that a player wouldn't be getting up after tearing a tendon in their ankle just isn't an intelligent blanket statement to throw out. I hope that it's not a 3rd degree sprain or whatever, but let's just tap the breaks and see what comes out here in the next day or two.

Also, please don't alternately use 3rd degree sprain and torn tendon interchangeably.

[sike]

I had a tear in a highschool hoops game, and that sucker swelled up like a baseball pretty fast....I still have scar tissue from that sprain...but different body's react differently to this type of injury. Some might be spralled on the floor while others may have the pain tolerance to get back up and tough it out....

[EricaLubarsky]

Grade 2 and 3 sprains both have tears. Grade three tears are usually much more severe and leave the joint "lax"

I dont claim to be a doctor, but I'm not going to take Murphy's word for it after researching it across five medical websites, especially since he only provided anecdotal evidence that used the generic word "tear" without talking about the grade.

The point is that it isn't necessarily an intelligent thing to throw out generalizations and blanket statements about injuries one way or the other.

throwing out anecdotes without research and evidence other than anecdotal ones isnt necessarily intelligent either.

I'll step aside if a doctor comes forward who knows about the subject but as it is, grade-specific information from medical websites and online journals trumps any anecdotal evidence that fails to specifically address the grades of sprains (tear severity). Third degree sprains leave the joint unable to bear weight, the sprain often causes damage to the nerves so pain is minimal, and the area itself becomes discolored. That is the information that is confirmed across many websites and the first part makes me highly doubt that Finley could have played for 3-4 minutes and shot the ball with a grade three sprain.

[Murphy3]

Can you show me where in your vast research it stated that when a basketball player suffers a 3rd degree sprain that they do not get up oh great EricaLubarsky?

[jayC]

Why isn't Dirk in the low post, run the offense through him it makes Devin Harris and Terry much better. Second why aren't we running when the opposition scores. When we don't it gives the other team to set up its defense. The defense has still been good the fifth consecutive game holding a team under 100. Our free throw shooters have been subpar this season shooting 77 percent on the season. Anything under 80 percent isn't acceptable.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky


BTW, it is absolutely wrong to think that Finley has a third degree sprain. While researching Daniels' condition, I discovered that 3rd degree sprains are when the tendon actually tears. That means that he would not be getting up. He'd be on crutches for weeks and his ankle would be wrapped up. I saw Finley get up, run and shoot FTs. That might not have been good for him, but he was able to which is the point.

AND, the last time I checked, doesn't having a 3rd degree sprain actually involve the tearing of certain ligaments? It looks a bit like you're confusing ligaments and tendons.

Anyways, for a very brief explanation of a third degree ankle sprain, go here.

[EricaLubarsky]

Oh great Murphy, there is nothing that says that a player can't get up. In fact I did not look at any basketball-specific websites. I have found evidence that rigorous activity after such a severe sprain would be unlikely.

I guess since you are playing the devil's advocate, I have the duty to provide evidence and not you. Doesnt sound right but here goes.

arthroscopy.com specifically states that Grade III sprains are classified thusly because

instability has resulted

Finley played solid basketball for a few minutes out there.

PHYSICIAN AND SPORTSMEDICINE journal states that the recovery period for a grade three sprain has a recovery time of

5-8 wk with optimal rehab

Dallas has said that Finleywill only be out for a couple of weeks. That fits with the evidence that the site has for 1st and 2nd grade sprains.

ePodiatry.com describes a grade three sprain with the following

Total rupture of a ligament - there is a loss of motion
Gross instability of the joint - joint function is lost
Severe pain initially followed by no pain

www.sportsinjuryclinic.net echoes that analysis

Rice University describes a third degree sprain as

complete tear of the affected ligament (very loose)

I didnt see the laxity

[EricaLubarsky]

AND, the last time I checked, doesn't having a 3rd degree sprain actually involve the tearing of certain ligaments? It looks a bit like you're confusing ligaments and tendons.

you are correct. I used the wrong word.

[Murphy3]

Erica, read the part in bold. No sh!t that it hurts and that you'll lose some loss of function, but can you see anything that would backup your claim that the person would not 'get up'? No....nowhere...hada...nothing


MDAdvice.com


ANKLE SPRAIN, GRADE 3 (Severe or 3rd Degree Ankle Sprain)
MDAdvice.com Home > Health Library > Sports Injuries >
GENERAL INFORMATION
DEFINITION--A severe injury to the ankle in which one or more ligaments are stretched and totally torn. A severe sprain may include a temporary or lasting dislocation. A two-ligament sprain causes more disability than a single-ligament sprain.



BODY PARTS INVOLVED
--------------------

Ligaments that support the ankle joint.
Three main bones of the ankle joint--the talus (heel bone), and the tibia and fibula (lower leg bones).
Blood vessels, nerves, periosteum (covering of bone) and other soft tissue close to the injury. {48}

SIGNS & SYMPTOMS
--------------------

Severe ankle pain at the time of injury.
A feeling of popping or tearing in the outer or inner part of the ankle. Sometimes there will be a sensation that the ankle joint is dislocated or was temporarily dislocated and popped back into joint.
Severe tenderness at the injury site.
Loss of function. The injured person usually falls and has great difficulty walking. The joint loses its stability.
Looseness in the joint if the foot is forced in the direction of pain.
Immediate, generalized swelling throughout the ankle and foot.
Bruising that appears immediately or soon after injury.

CAUSES
Stress imposed from either side of the ankle joint, temporarily forcing or prying the ankle or heel bone out of its normal socket. The ligament or ligaments that normally hold the joint in place are stretched and torn.


RISK INCREASES WITH
--------------------

Previous ankle injury.
Any sport in which sideways displacement of the ankle is likely. Runners, walkers and participants in such sports as basketball, soccer, volleyball, skiing, distance jumping and high jumping are prone to ankle sprains. They often accidentally land on the side of the foot.
Use of shoes with inadequate support to prevent sideways displacement when stress occurs.
Poor muscle strength or conditioning.
Inadequate strapping prior to participation in contact sports.
Walking or running on rough surfaces, such as roads with potholes.

HOW TO PREVENT
--------------------

Build your strength with a conditioning program appropriate for your sport.
Warm up before practice or competition.
Tape the ankle from midfoot to midcalf before practice or competition. If you cannot use tape, wrap the ankle with elastic bandages or use an elastic brace.
Wear proper protective shoes.
Provide the ankle with substantial support during sports activities for 12 months following any significant ankle injury.

WHAT TO EXPECT
========================================
APPROPRIATE HEALTH CARE

Doctor's care.
Application of a walking cast, and taping of the ankle when the cast is no longer needed.
Physical therapy after the cast is removed.
Hospitalization for surgery (sometimes) to repair the torn ligaments.

DIAGNOSTIC MEASURES
--------------------

Your own observation of symptoms.
Medical history and exam by a doctor.
X-rays of injured areas to assess total injury. Grade 3 sprains are often accompanied by fractures of the ankle bones.

POSSIBLE COMPLICATIONS
--------------------

Prolonged healing time if activity is resumed too soon.
Proneness to repeated injury.
Unstable or arthritic ankle joint following repeated injury.

PROBABLE OUTCOME
The full extent of injury cannot be determined for 12 to 24 hours. Third-degree ankle sprains require an average of 12 to 16 weeks to heal completely. If this is a first-time injury, proper care, surgery and sufficient healing time before resuming activity should prevent permanent disability. Ligaments have a poor blood supply, and torn ligaments require as much healing time as fractures.


HOW TO TREAT
========================================
NOTE -- Follow your doctor's instructions. These instructions are supplemental.


FIRST AID
The goal is to prevent further injury to the torn ligaments. See a doctor immediately for proper diagnosis and care. Follow instructions for R.I.C.E., the first letters of REST, ICE,
COMPRESSION and ELEVATION. See Appendix 1 for details.


CONTINUING CARE
--------------------

The doctor may apply a stirrup-boot splint from below the knee to the toes. Stirrup boots are less likely to cause problems with swelling than an immediate cast may cause. This will support the joint effectively enough to walk on crutches, but you should not bear weight on the injured ankle.
When the swelling subsides in several days, any sutures will probably be removed and the splint replaced by a walking-boot cast for 10 to 21 days. You may walk on the walking cast immediately.
After the cast has been removed, ankle taping will be necessary for a minimum of 6 weeks.
After cast removal, use an ice pack 3 or 4 times a day. Wrap ice chips or cubes in a plastic bag. Wrap the bag in a moist towel, and place it over the injured area. Use for 20 minutes at a time.
Apply heat instead of ice if it feels better. Use heat lamps, hot soaks, hot showers, heating pads, or heat liniments or ointments.
Take whirlpool treatments, if available.
Keep the foot elevated whenever possible to decrease swelling.
Massage the ankle gently and often to provide comfort and decrease swelling.

MEDICATION
--------------------

For minor discomfort, you may use: Non-prescription medicines such as aspirin, acetaminophen or ibuprofen. Topical liniments and ointments.
Your doctor may prescribe: Injection of procaine and hyaluronidase to decrease pain soon after injury. Stronger medicine for pain, if needed.

ACTIVITY
Walk with crutches until your surgeon applies the walking cast. See Appendix 3 (Safe Use of Crutches). Resume your normal activities gradually. Don't drive until healing is complete.


DIET
During recovery, eat a well-balanced diet that includes extra protein, such as meat, fish, poultry, cheese, milk and eggs. Increase fiber and fluid intake to prevent constipation that may result from decreased activity.


REHABILITATION
--------------------

Begin daily rehabilitation exercises when supportive wrapping is no longer needed.
Use ice massage for 10 minutes before and 10 minutes after exercise. Fill a large Styrofoam cup with water and freeze. Tear a small amount of foam from the top so ice protrudes. Massage firmly in a circle over the injured area.
See section on rehabilitation exercises.

CALL YOUR DOCTOR IF
========================================

You have symptoms of a third-degree ankle sprain.
Ankle pain, swelling or bruising increases despite treatment.
You notice numbness or discoloration of the toes when the walking cast is in place.
You develop signs of postoperative infection (increased pain or drainage from the surgical wound, or fever).

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Oh great Murphy, there is nothing that says that a player can't get up. In fact I did not look at any basketball-specific websites. I have found evidence that rigorous activity after such a severe sprain would be unlikely.

I said nothing about 'rigorous activity' after a 3rd degree sprain. I said that there's no reason to believe that the person could not 'get up'. I have provided links that would indicate that a person could in fact 'get up'.

I have provided links that completely backup my claim that someone can 'get up' after a 3rd degree sprain.

Just go ahead and admit that you're absolutely wrong with everything that you and I have discussed in this conversation.