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dude1394 · 08-10-2012, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Totally agree. Jason Kidd had nothing left in the tank last season, so I don't really see how bringing back Tyson Chandler would've helped us beat either of those teams... Plus, Jason Terry way overachieved during our championship run - that guy has never and will never play like that again.

Getting the gang back together wouldn't have "guaranteed" anything other than future payroll restrictions.

There is that effing guarantee word again. It's stupid, it continues to be stupid and will forever be stupid to use guarantee in a sports conversation, it does not exist, anywhere.

You put the best team you can together, lace em up and see what the hell happens...or you quit without trying ( the current Mavs way ).

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-10-2012, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

You put the best team you can together, lace em up and see what the hell happens...or you quit without trying ( the current Mavs way ).

They did that! They no only did that, but they tried to get Deron and Dwight in the process. What don't you understand again? This year's team, barring injury, is pretty much guaranteed to be better than last season. What other goal can you have other than getting stars?

Do you really not get that your arguments are equally unprovable? Chandler is not the end all be all player you think he is. He really isn't. He is a really nice player that isn't a superstar. You can talk in circles, but it really won't make what you are saying more compelling.

If Kaman stays healthy, then the Chandler discussion will have run out of steam (if it hasn't already). Kaman isn't quite the rebounder or help side defender, but he is there or better in every other category. And his percentages won't be as high because he takes 7 more fg attempts per game. Why? Because the guy knows how to score. Chandler gives you mostly garbage points, lobs, or put backs. Just give it a chance before you jump off a cliff.

dude1394 · 08-10-2012, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

They did that! They no only did that, but they tried to get Deron and Dwight in the process. What don't you understand again? This year's team, barring injury, is pretty much guaranteed to be better than last season. What other goal can you have other than getting stars?

No they did NOT do that. Letting Tyson go for nothing and then getting Odom was NOT putting their best team out there.

Quote:

Do you really not get that your arguments are equally unprovable? Chandler is not the end all be all player you think he is. He really isn't. He is a really nice player that isn't a superstar. You can talk in circles, but it really won't make what you are saying more compelling.

Sure I do, it's all unknowable.. There is one thing I do know, the mavs had the best team in the world..PERIOD. Whether they would have had the best team going forward is unknowable..IMO it's pretty knowable that if they are planning to strip it all down to try and land Deron/Dwight..it's pretty knowable that they were not trying to win it all last year. Do you think they were?

Quote:

If Kaman stays healthy, then the Chandler discussion will have run out of steam (if it hasn't already). Kaman isn't quite the rebounder or help side defender, but he is there or better in every other category. And his percentages won't be as high because he takes 7 more fg attempts per game. Why? Because the guy knows how to score. Chandler gives you mostly garbage points, lobs, or put backs. Just give it a chance before you jump off a cliff.

We will obviously check back in around January. But I don't see it. First I don't think he compliments dirk that well, never has. In fact no low-post scorer who isn't a defensive stud probably would. I was wrong about Al Jefferson for example. Kaman I expect will get beat out by brand for the closing center anyway.

Underdog · 08-10-2012, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

No they did NOT do that. Letting Tyson go for nothing and then getting Odom was NOT putting their best team out there.

You're tossing the word "unknowable" around, then acting like the Mavs KNEW that the reigning 6th Man of the Year was going to be a complete bust when he came to Dallas?? Our front office put together a damn good team on paper while still maintaining flexibility to go after Deron and Dwight - the fact that none of that panned out was completely unknowable... Especially the part about Odom - he should've at least helped to mitigate the loss of Tyson Chandler.

dude1394 · 08-10-2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

You're tossing the word "unknowable" around, then acting like the Mavs KNEW that the reigning 6th Man of the Year was going to be a complete bust when he came to Dallas?? Our front office put together a damn good team on paper while still maintaining flexibility to go after Deron and Dwight - the fact that none of that panned out was completely unknowable... Especially the part about Odom - he should've at least helped to mitigate the loss of Tyson Chandler.

They didn't know about odom before they let tyson go. If they had traded for Odom then I think your opinion makes a little more sense. Odom dropped into their lap, had the expiring contract they wanted so they took it. Completely fortuitous, not planned.

It's all unknowable to some extent. It's unknowable that the team was just flat out lucky in '11, it's unknowable that the team wouldn't have been just as competitive last year if they knew they were all together, it's unknowable what Deron would have done if Tyson was here.

What IS knowable is that the mavs had the best team in basketball, the best center that I can think of next to dirk and they decided to roll the dice. Some folks say that was really smart, I think it was really dumb. Who is right is also unknowable.

Underdog · 08-10-2012, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

They didn't know about odom before they let tyson go. If they had traded for Odom then I think your opinion makes a little more sense. Odom dropped into their lap, had the expiring contract they wanted so they took it. Completely fortuitous, not planned.

The flexibilty needed to take advantage of that situation was 100% planned. The front office knew that the new CBA would allow for certain opportunities to arise, and when they did, the Mavs would be poised to strike.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-10-2012, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

You're tossing the word "unknowable" around, then acting like the Mavs KNEW that the reigning 6th Man of the Year was going to be a complete bust when he came to Dallas?? Our front office put together a damn good team on paper while still maintaining flexibility to go after Deron and Dwight - the fact that none of that panned out was completely unknowable... Especially the part about Odom - he should've at least helped to mitigate the loss of Tyson Chandler.

Exactly. Dude can't have it both ways with the "unknowable." Unlucky is more of the word I would use...unlucky with Odom, unlucky about Joe Johnston, and unlucky that Orlando is now having a mad hatter tea party. But why cry for the rest of the summer? Look at what went right. Lucky Kaman is here for one year, 8 million. Luck Mayo turned down bigger offers to play for Rick. Lucky Indiana overvalued Mahinmi to get Collison and Jones. Lucky to get Brand for 2.1 mil. Lucky that there was a plan B...at all. It may not be exciting like landing Williams, but it certainly looks very smart. Smart is often the best route to take.

dude1394 · 08-10-2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Exactly. Dude can't have it both ways with the "unknowable." Unlucky is more of the word I would use...unlucky with Odom, unlucky about Joe Johnston, and unlucky that Orlando is now having a mad hatter tea party. But why cry for the rest of the summer? Look at what went right. Lucky Kaman is here for one year, 8 million. Luck Mayo turned down bigger offers to play for Rick. Lucky Indiana overvalued Mahinmi to get Collison and Jones. Lucky to get Brand for 2.1 mil. Lucky that there was a plan B...at all. It may not be exciting like landing Williams, but it certainly looks very smart. Smart is often the best route to take.

That is your opinion and fine. I think it smarter to ride a hot stock when it's hot and not sell it "thinking" it might quit on you.

This team is not playing for a championship...probably won't ever in dirk's career. Okay by you, that's smart.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-10-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

This team is not playing for a championship...probably won't ever in dirk's career. Okay by you, that's smart.

Speaking of unknowable in August...that statement right there. If only one of Collison, Mayo, Kaman, Roddy, whoever becomes a star, then you're right back in the thick if things with a great trade asset to boot. Mayo probably has the best chance of having that kind of year.

dude1394 · 08-10-2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

You're tossing the word "unknowable" around, then acting like the Mavs KNEW that the reigning 6th Man of the Year was going to be a complete bust when he came to Dallas?? Our front office put together a damn good team on paper while still maintaining flexibility to go after Deron and Dwight - the fact that none of that panned out was completely unknowable... Especially the part about Odom - he should've at least helped to mitigate the loss of Tyson Chandler.

You and I competely disagree about odom. He could not come close to replacing what a mobile center can bring. He also played the same position as the dirkster, I thought it ill-fitting from the get go.

Nellie would have loved the move however.

Thespiralgoeson · 08-10-2012, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

You're tossing the word "unknowable" around, then acting like the Mavs KNEW that the reigning 6th Man of the Year was going to be a complete bust when he came to Dallas?? Our front office put together a damn good team on paper while still maintaining flexibility to go after Deron and Dwight - the fact that none of that panned out was completely unknowable... Especially the part about Odom - he should've at least helped to mitigate the loss of Tyson Chandler.

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Underdog again."