01-14-2011, 09:05 PM
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#1
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Ajinca is nothing more than an expiring contract
Too bad he blew all his little trade value in two games
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01-14-2011, 09:20 PM
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#2
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Come on MAN!!! He's GOT TO PLAY!!! HE"S SO MUCH BETTER THAN CARDINAL OR THE NEW GUY!!! Come ON!!
What a shocker..
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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01-14-2011, 10:33 PM
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#3
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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He is 22 and raw, he frankly shouldn't be seeing the floor, he has a bit potential if he can find a way to get better lateral movement, and better court awareness, but he isn't close to being a rotational player yet.
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01-14-2011, 10:52 PM
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#4
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,113
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he sucks. bad. every time he touches the ball he jacks up an ill advised jumper. i cringe every time the ball is passed to him. he also is a 7 footer who can't rebound.
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01-14-2011, 10:56 PM
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#5
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Reminds me of Ryan Hollins with a jumper. Bleh.
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01-14-2011, 10:58 PM
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#6
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadBane
Reminds me of Ryan Hollins with a jumper. Bleh.
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That would be pretty decent, if he could be that in a couple of years, Hollins was a pretty decent backup
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01-14-2011, 10:58 PM
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#7
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 132
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lets not blame him its the coaches fault , ajinca is a good player but just not on this mavs team , this mavs team has no time to bring these young guys in
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01-14-2011, 11:07 PM
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#8
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavs777
That would be pretty decent, if he could be that in a couple of years, Hollins was a pretty decent backup
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Except he and Hollins can't rebound worth s**t, nor are they good defenders outside of blocking shots, nor do they have any feel for offensive schemes. I never cared for Hollins, and I don't have much hope for Lex.
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01-14-2011, 11:08 PM
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#9
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankvizza
lets not blame him its the coaches fault , ajinca is a good player but just not on this mavs team , this mavs team has no time to bring these young guys in
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He wasn't a good player with the Bobcats either. He's young, he could improve. But I don't think he'll ever amount to much.
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01-14-2011, 11:12 PM
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#10
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadBane
Except he and Hollins can't rebound worth s**t, nor are they good defenders outside of blocking shots, nor do they have any feel for offensive schemes. I never cared for Hollins, and I don't have much hope for Lex.
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Hollins was a pretty decent defender, he was just too aggressive and very young, he has potential to be a decent player
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01-14-2011, 11:30 PM
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#11
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavs777
Hollins was a pretty decent defender, he was just too aggressive and very young, he has potential to be a decent player
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He's been in the league 5 years, he is what he is. A poor man's Stromile Swift. And Hollins was definitely a below average man defender.
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01-15-2011, 12:28 AM
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#12
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 353
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Sadly true.
Mahimi on the other hand has a lot of potential and should be the one getting those PF minutes. Especially when we have Haywood to play backup Center.
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01-15-2011, 12:37 AM
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#13
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 353
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Here's a fun excercise. How many Spurs players do you think would be starters if they were moved to the current Dallas roster?
My list:
T. Duncan (you'd start him at Center over Chandler)
R. Jefferson
M. Ginobli
T. Parker
G. Neal
Now how many Dallas players do you think would be starters on the San Antonio roster if they were moved there?
My list:
D. Nowitzki (Duncan would slide to Center)
T. Chandler (Duncan can play PF)
When you look at it that way... this is not a good team. With or without Dirk. It's a little better if Caron were in the mix, but I don't think even he would start in San Antonio.
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01-15-2011, 12:49 AM
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#14
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankvizza
lets not blame him its the coaches fault , ajinca is a good player but just not on this mavs team , this mavs team has no time to bring these young guys in
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It's the coaches fault if he doesn't play the kids and it's the coaches fault if they suck when he does. Like every message board around...the coach sucks unless the team wins every game.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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01-15-2011, 12:52 AM
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#15
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHT
Here's a fun excercise. How many Spurs players do you think would be starters if they were moved to the current Dallas roster?
My list:
T. Duncan (you'd start him at Center over Chandler)
R. Jefferson
M. Ginobli
T. Parker
G. Neal
Now how many Dallas players do you think would be starters on the San Antonio roster if they were moved there?
My list:
D. Nowitzki (Duncan would slide to Center)
T. Chandler (Duncan can play PF)
When you look at it that way... this is not a good team. With or without Dirk. It's a little better if Caron were in the mix, but I don't think even he would start in San Antonio.
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dirk, chandler, jet, caron sounds about right. Parker, ginobbli, parker are solid..The rest are spares.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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01-15-2011, 01:21 AM
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#16
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHT
Here's a fun excercise. How many Spurs players do you think would be starters if they were moved to the current Dallas roster?
My list:
T. Duncan (you'd start him at Center over Chandler)
R. Jefferson
M. Ginobli
T. Parker
G. Neal
Now how many Dallas players do you think would be starters on the San Antonio roster if they were moved there?
My list:
D. Nowitzki (Duncan would slide to Center)
T. Chandler (Duncan can play PF)
When you look at it that way... this is not a good team. With or without Dirk. It's a little better if Caron were in the mix, but I don't think even he would start in San Antonio.
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Gary Neal? He is a pretty good scorer, but other than that he isn't much of anything, terrible passer, undersized 2 bad defender, Stevenson> Neal
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01-15-2011, 01:32 AM
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#17
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
dirk, chandler, jet, caron sounds about right. Parker, ginobbli, parker are solid..The rest are spares.
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Yeah, that Duncan guy is a huge spare.
Anyway, Blair, Jefferson, and Hill are far from spares. Those "spares" would greatly help our team.
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01-15-2011, 01:33 AM
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#18
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHT
Sadly true.
Mahimi on the other hand has a lot of potential and should be the one getting those PF minutes. Especially when we have Haywood to play backup Center.
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This. Ian has actually consistently shown solid production when he plays, be it in garbage time or crucial minutes. It makes no sense that Lex gets minutes over him. There is no reason in most situations Ian can't play the 4. None.
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01-15-2011, 01:51 AM
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#19
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
dirk, chandler, jet, caron sounds about right. Parker, ginobbli, parker are solid..The rest are spares.
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So you think the Spurs would play JET over Ginboli or Parker? That's insane. No way.
You think they'd go with Caron over Jefferson? No way but I'll give you that one is at least sort of close. But Caron isn't playing and isn't going to be. So let's leave him out of the discussion.
Of the players likely to be an active part of the Mavs roster any time soon, I maintain that only 2 of them would get starter minutes on the Spurs while at least 5 if not 6 of the Spurs would get starter minutes if they were moved to the current Mavs.
That's a HUGE gap. Just huge.
Last edited by JHT; 01-15-2011 at 01:52 AM.
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01-15-2011, 01:54 AM
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#20
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavs777
Gary Neal? He is a pretty good scorer, but other than that he isn't much of anything, terrible passer, undersized 2 bad defender, Stevenson> Neal
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Yeah but with the Mavs in desperate need of a scorer, I think they'd start him. Maybe not. I'll give you that one's close.
Even if you take him off though that's still 5 Spurs who would start on the Mavs versus 2 Mavs who would start on the Spurs.
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01-15-2011, 01:54 AM
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#21
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHT
So you think the Spurs would play JET over Ginboli or Parker? That's insane. No way.
You think they'd go with Caron over Jefferson? No way but I'll give you that one is at least sort of close. But Caron isn't playing and isn't going to be. So let's leave him out of the discussion.
Of the players likely to be an active part of the Mavs roster any time two, I maintain that only 2 of them would get starter minutes on the Spurs while at least 5 if not 6 of the Spurs would get starter minutes if they were moved to the current Mavs.
That's a HUGE gap. Just huge.
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Nope but they'd play him over jefferson I expect. Unless we are talking about just positions. Jet/dirk/caron/chandler would be solids for the spurs. I'm not sure (nor are you) how it would shake out.. Chandler wouldn't start for example because duncan/dirk would.
The best five are :
dirk, duncan, chandler, parker, ginobbli, caron(?) .. but you can't just put together a team with the best 5...
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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01-15-2011, 01:55 AM
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#22
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadBane
Yeah, that Duncan guy is a huge spare.
Anyway, Blair, Jefferson, and Hill are far from spares. Those "spares" would greatly help our team.
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got me there...
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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01-15-2011, 01:55 AM
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#23
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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Nobody is arguing who is the deeper team that is clearly the Spurs
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01-15-2011, 01:57 AM
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#24
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
Nope but they'd play him over jefferson I expect. Unless we are talking about just positions. Jet/dirk/caron/chandler would be solids for the spurs. I'm not sure (nor are you) how it would shake out.. Chandler wouldn't start for example because duncan/dirk would.
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The question wasn't who would be "solids" for the Spurs. The question was who would start for the Spurs of the current active Mavericks roster.
Caron is not really part of the team, so nix that.
And you agree that JET would not start.
That means you agree that only 2 Mavs would start if moved to the current Spurs roster.
Great. Glad we agree for once.
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01-15-2011, 01:59 AM
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#25
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavs777
Nobody is arguing who is the deeper team that is clearly the Spurs
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They're not just deeper though, they have a better starting 5 too. They're better in every way, even if you add Dirk. Their a LOT better.
I mean that's not news to anybody, we might have disputed it before all the injuries but it's clear now.
I just think it becomes really clear how much better they are when you look at it that way, and clear how badly the Mavs have to make a change... or hope that Roddy's magic.
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01-15-2011, 01:59 AM
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#26
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHT
So you think the Spurs would play JET over Ginboli or Parker? That's insane. No way.
You think they'd go with Caron over Jefferson? No way but I'll give you that one is at least sort of close. But Caron isn't playing and isn't going to be. So let's leave him out of the discussion.
Of the players likely to be an active part of the Mavs roster any time soon, I maintain that only 2 of them would get starter minutes on the Spurs while at least 5 if not 6 of the Spurs would get starter minutes if they were moved to the current Mavs.
That's a HUGE gap. Just huge.
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No jet wouldn't be over ginobbli or parker...but he would over jefferson I expect. And I don't see why pops wouldn't love caron over jefferson. He's tougher, scores as well and plays better defense.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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01-15-2011, 02:01 AM
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#27
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHT
The question wasn't who would be "solids" for the Spurs. The question was who would start for the Spurs of the current active Mavericks roster.
Caron is not really part of the team, so nix that.
And you agree that JET would not start.
That means you agree that only 2 Mavs would start if moved to the current Spurs roster.
Great. Glad we agree for once.
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so after all of that we'd have 3 spurs and 2 mavs starting. And that would happen no matter what as there are only 5 starters?
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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01-15-2011, 02:03 AM
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#28
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHT
They're not just deeper though, they have a better starting 5 too. They're better in every way, even if you add Dirk. Their a LOT better.
I mean that's not news to anybody, we might have disputed it before all the injuries but it's clear now.
I just think it becomes really clear how much better they are when you look at it that way, and clear how badly the Mavs have to make a change... or hope that Roddy's magic.
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If you toss caron out of the mix..sure..but who wouldn't think so. if you toss ginobblie out of the mix we've seen that team struggle mightly as well.
the mavs need a 3 badly, I agree...but I'm not even clear what the point of the argument is when you've lost who was becoming quickly our best #2.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
Last edited by dude1394; 01-15-2011 at 02:12 AM.
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01-15-2011, 02:06 AM
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#29
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
No jet wouldn't be over ginobbli or parker...but he would over jefferson I expect. And I don't see why pops wouldn't love caron over jefferson. He's tougher, scores as well and plays better defense.
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Why do you keep mentioning Caron? He's not playing for the Mavs this year. Irrelevant.
JET can't even start on the Mavs over Stevenson, why would he start over Jefferson... at the 3??? Pops isn't going to run a 3-guard lineup. I guess he could move Ginobli to the 3?
JET is scoring a little more PPG than Jefferson this year, but only because he shoots a higher volume. Jefferson's FG% (0.475) is better and his 3PT% (0.420) is VASTLY better than Terry's (0.442 & 0.335)... and he's not undersized. I guess I don't see why you think Pops or anyone would start JET over him. Seems like a no-brainer to go with the guy who's more efficient and bigger than an undersized, streaky volume shooter (not that I don't love JET, but he is what he is now).
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01-15-2011, 02:07 AM
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#30
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
If you toss caron out of the mix..sure..but who wouldn't think so. if you toss ginobblie out of the mix we've seen that team struggle mightly as well.
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Yes but Ginobli isn't being tossed out of the mix, he is playing, Caron isn't. Are you unaware that Butler is done for the year? Why do you keep bringing him up?
We're discussing the team that is, not the team that was or that we wish there was.
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01-15-2011, 02:11 AM
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#31
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHT
Why do you keep mentioning Caron? He's not playing for the Mavs this year. Irrelevant.
JET can't even start on the Mavs over Stevenson, why would he start over Jefferson... at the 3??? Pops isn't going to run a 3-guard lineup. I guess he could move Ginobli to the 3?
JET is scoring a little more PPG than Jefferson this year, but only because he shoots a higher volume. Jefferson's FG% (0.475) is better and his 3PT% (0.420) is VASTLY better than Terry's (0.442 & 0.335)... and he's not undersized. I guess I don't see why you think Pops or anyone would start JET over him. Seems like a no-brainer to go with the guy who's more efficient and bigger than an undersized, streaky volume shooter (not that I don't love JET, but he is what he is now).
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Because I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make. Dirk isn't playing right now either so should we toss him out?
This is the first year that manu has started so until this year he wouldn't have started on the mavs team because he couldn't even start on his own team?
Jet doesn't start because of choice...for many years manu didn't start either, but he was still the finisher because it helped the team. I'd never say that manu wasn't one of the best 5 on the team whether he starts or not.
So let's talk starters..since that's what you seem to want to do. Again we are assuming that dirk is back.
Duncan, dirk, jet, parker, manu....that's your starting 5.. Manu would play the 3, parker the point and jet the shooting guard. Chandler wouldn't start..
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
Last edited by dude1394; 01-15-2011 at 02:14 AM.
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01-15-2011, 03:53 AM
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#32
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
Because I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make. Dirk isn't playing right now either so should we toss him out?
This is the first year that manu has started so until this year he wouldn't have started on the mavs team because he couldn't even start on his own team?
Jet doesn't start because of choice...for many years manu didn't start either, but he was still the finisher because it helped the team. I'd never say that manu wasn't one of the best 5 on the team whether he starts or not.
So let's talk starters..since that's what you seem to want to do. Again we are assuming that dirk is back.
Duncan, dirk, jet, parker, manu....that's your starting 5.. Manu would play the 3, parker the point and jet the shooting guard. Chandler wouldn't start..
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Thats a terrible 1-3 defensivley, Manu would struggle with athletic threes parker and terry can be taken on the block and not much rebounding either
I think the best "5" from the 2 teams would be this
Parker
Ginobli
Marion
Dirk
Duncan
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01-15-2011, 06:06 AM
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#33
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavs777
Thats a terrible 1-3 defensivley, Manu would struggle with athletic threes parker and terry can be taken on the block and not much rebounding either
I think the best "5" from the 2 teams would be this
Parker
Ginobli
Marion
Dirk
Duncan
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I can't believe that's the first mention of Marion in this thread. I'd definitely rather have him than Jefferson any day of the week. As for Ajinca, I'm glad we know what he is, as opposed to being enamored with what he could be from not seeing him play.
Last edited by dmakk; 01-15-2011 at 06:09 AM.
Reason: wrong reply
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01-15-2011, 09:33 AM
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#34
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Golden Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHT
Here's a fun excercise. How many Spurs players do you think would be starters if they were moved to the current Dallas roster?
My list:
T. Duncan (you'd start him at Center over Chandler)
R. Jefferson
M. Ginobli
T. Parker
G. Neal
Now how many Dallas players do you think would be starters on the San Antonio roster if they were moved there?
My list:
D. Nowitzki (Duncan would slide to Center)
T. Chandler (Duncan can play PF)
When you look at it that way... this is not a good team. With or without Dirk. It's a little better if Caron were in the mix, but I don't think even he would start in San Antonio.
[...]
That's a HUGE gap. Just huge.
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But you do remember that we beat a healthy and rolling Spurs team on a 12-game winning streak in San Antonio with Dirk and Butler, right?
The Spurs are better than the Mavs without Dirk. Chances are they will be better than the Mavs even with Dirk. With Roddy back in the lineup, things should get a little more interesting again.
That said, nobody is denying the impact of Caron's absence, especially when it comes to the impact it could have on a playoff series against the Spurs. That's why seemingly everyone on this board is in favor of a useful trade to replace Caron. Everyone knows that a starting-caliber small forward is the missing link right now besides Dirk (and Roddy).
When Dirk and Caron were healthy, I just don't think that the Spurs were a better team than the Mavs. While their backcourt was superior to ours, our frontcourt was equally superior to theirs. Butler's injury takes away that advantage and thus creates a problem.
If we could get someone like Jackson, Wallace or Prince to hopefully make up for the loss of Butler, we should be very competitive again, even against the Spurs. Imagine we could land Jackson and then compare the teams:
Chandler, Dirk, Jackson, Stevenson, Kidd
vs.
Blair, Duncan, Jefferson, Ginobili, Parker
Perhaps that starting lineup for the Spurs would be a little better than ours. However, our bench with Roddy, Marion, Jet, Haywood and JJB would be incredible and most likely (much) better than theirs with Hill, Neal, McDyess and Bonner.
Last edited by dalger; 01-15-2011 at 09:34 AM.
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