Lakers or Celtics? - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

alby · 05-31-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

At least in wrestling, everybody knows and ADMITS that Hogan and Piper (or Flair and Rhodes, etc.) will end up wrestling for the title. We all knew that the promoters were going to make that happen.

The big difference between the NBA and the WWE is that Vince McMahon is honest.

ain't that the truth

Flacolaco · 05-31-2008, 11:14 AM

They're really starting games in Boston at 9:00pm EST?

Man I would be pissed. I was pissed when the Stars started games at 8:00 here.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 05-31-2008, 11:14 AM

The NBA is Sports Entertainment now. Don't call it a sport.

Just wait, in Game 7 when the Lakers are about to win it all Tim Duncan will run out, clothesline the evil referee Joey Crawford and bodyslam Kobe Bryant, costing the Lakers the Championship and setting up Tim Duncan vs Kobe Bryant at Basketballmania with Joey Crawford as referee.

mav_love · 05-31-2008, 11:24 AM

ray allen and paul pierce paid their dues. they are fundamentally great, always have been. i feel bad for hating the Celtics only because i respect those two guys and their game. KG, meanwhile, is the biggest PR job in NBA history. if the Celtics win the Finals, it's not because of KG. KG is not > Dirk. Dirk didn't have an elite SF and an elite SG.

anyways, a much as hate KG and the zero-to-hero shit that surrounds his team, i will root for Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. you could see last night, after they beat Detroit, how much it meant to Pierce. that was really "intensity" -- not the KG version.

alby · 05-31-2008, 11:26 AM

I think I rather see KG's first ring than Kobe's first ring (without Shaq). Plus, Pierce really deserves it for sticking it out in Boston last year--he didn't demand any trades like Kobe, call out the entire front office, throw the biggest young talent under the bus, or anything of that nature. I don't like Ray Allen, but I dislike Odumb/Gasol even more, and as far as the two coaches go--Phil getting 10 rings and then talking about Zen and how great of a coach he is, yuck. Honestly, I don't want to see Kobe or Phil win any more championships in my lifetime. But, maybe the biggest reason for wanting a Lakers defeat is that I don't want to be living here when they win it all. Man, that would eat at me.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-31-2008, 11:40 AM

I'm still pissed about this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xvpB46StQrg

dude1394 · 05-31-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger

McHale-Ainge wasn't collusion?

no...boston gave up a very viable center and draft picks. Lakers gave up thier 10th man for goodness sakes.

dude1394 · 05-31-2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I'm still pissed about this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xvpB46StQrg

So is that a flop in the new nba? Should be.

fluid.forty.one · 05-31-2008, 01:08 PM

ugh this makes me sick

LonghornDub · 05-31-2008, 01:45 PM

I'm with chum on this one. This is the best NBA Finals imaginable not involving the Mavs, at least from my perspective. My preferences for the Finals each year go like this:

1) Hope the Mavs make it
2) Hope the Spurs don't
3) Hope for the best 2 teams in the league to make it

This is going to be an incredibly exciting Finals. I can't understand why any basketball fan would have rather had a different matchup, at least once the Mavs were eliminated.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-31-2008, 02:01 PM

Because it's all just really weird. After the 2007 finals, which had the worst ratings since 1980 or whatever, it "just so happens" that the Celtics, who were an absolute joke last year, get two steals in the offseason. Then, it "just so happens" that the Lakers get an all-star, from a team who has Jerry West of all people as an executive, for less than squat. Then, it "just so happens" that both teams get #1 seeds, and it "just so happens" they meet in the finals, even though no #1 has made the finals since 2003.

If these teams gradually built their powerhouses over time like everybody else, it would be far less suspicious. But teams almost never go from rags to riches in one year. This year we have not one, but TWO instances of this, and they are the two teams that "just so happen" to have made the great rivalry in the 80's.

Hey, if those teams saved the NBA's ratings then, why not now?

BGMaverick9 · 05-31-2008, 02:09 PM

I'm rooting for the Lakers for multiple reasons:

They played through the much tougher conference and came out on top in the regular season and the west playoffs, that's definitely flexing some muscle.

As mentioned, I don't need to suck-fest to continue on KG if he wins a ring.

The Lakers will be in trouble if Kobe takes it as a challenge to try to pick apart the Boston D. That hasn't been the gameplan for an entire game or series, he does it when it matters most though. He just needs to keep using his teammates and get them going. Gasol is really going to need to bring it for them in this series. Him and Odom are going to need to try to find a way to stop KG and still get theirs.

Caseman · 05-31-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Because it's all just really weird. After the 2007 finals, which had the worst ratings since 1980 or whatever, it "just so happens" that the Celtics, who were an absolute joke last year, get two steals in the offseason. Then, it "just so happens" that the Lakers get an all-star, from a team who has Jerry West of all people as an executive, for less than squat. Then, it "just so happens" that both teams get #1 seeds, and it "just so happens" they meet in the finals, even though no #1 has made the finals since 2003.

If these teams gradually built their powerhouses over time like everybody else, it would be far less suspicious. But teams almost never go from rags to riches in one year. This year we have not one, but TWO instances of this, and they are the two teams that "just so happen" to have made the great rivalry in the 80's.

Hey, if those teams saved the NBA's ratings then, why not now?

You forgot about the lottery draft picks and how Chicago with little over 1% chance of getting the 1st pick gets it. Stern is going full-circle with the dynasties. I can't wait to see what he does for the Knicks.

alby · 05-31-2008, 03:04 PM

We both know Chi and NY will be in the top 4 in the East next year...

Like I said, if the Knicks sniff anywhere near the ECF in 08/09, the NBA means nothing to me.

rabbitproof · 05-31-2008, 03:13 PM

Both teams got insane assists to get where they are now. Atleast, the phoniness should stop now. Can we atleast let the chosen ones battle it out between themselves now? Or does Stern have a preference between LA and Boston?

The Lakers are a legitimate championship contender. The Celtics have been weak through the playoffs and though they have prevailed, they are not championship material. I'll root for an honest Finals, which means, the Lakers should win. I'm about done taking the league seriously as a sport though. Between the ref jobs, the flops, the lopsided trades, the level of incompetence of most GMs and the disparity between conferences (and geographical DMAs), you can't take basketball too seriously...

dalmations202 · 05-31-2008, 03:15 PM

I'm in offseason mode now, and won't be watching.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-31-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

You forgot about the lottery draft picks and how Chicago with little over 1% chance of getting the 1st pick gets it. Stern is going full-circle with the dynasties. I can't wait to see what he does for the Knicks.

He has rigged drafts before, but I find it hard to accuse him this time around. The Bulls, Heat, Knicks getting #1 could all be contrived as suspicious. Heck, some nuts probably would have said something even if the Sonics had won.

Janett_Reno · 05-31-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

It's like an end to hope.

No one else can win a damn title in the league. The Spurs got in on the action, but you can bet the Bulls and Knicks will be back in the mix. Lakers...Cletics...maybe Houston will be back?

When are the Wizards and Mavericks and Suns and Jazz of the world going to get a shot at this thing? You think Orlando is still feeling good about their chances any time soon? I feel like we have no hope now. The time for the little guys came and went. There was hope, and Miami alone seized the day. And now the Celtics and Lakers might even be in the Finals the next few years. Those teams look solid.

I am not a Lakers or Kobe fan but i also know he is by far the greatest player playing in the nba right now. Phil Jackson and Pops are by far the greatest coaches in the league right now. Miami bought a title when signing Posey, Shaq, Mourning and stacked up against us. Maybe they had Payton also. The Lakers was good and when they got Gasol they are now great. The Celtics are trying to buy a title, Cassell, Posey, Garnett, and Allen. Can we hate people because they run great organazations?

It is a reason why the Spurs, Celts and Lakers win titles. Cuban has brought us from door mats to respected. The probs the teams you bring up, Orlando, Bulls, Knicks, Mavs, Wizs, Jazz, Suns, they have to be smart. They get respected and win alot of games but it is no fluke why they do not win. They miss a piece, two pieces or three. I can tell you why each one of those teams did not win and "won't" win a title unless they get "complete". The Jazz are getting close. When teams get close they can go two ways and most of the teams go south and do stupid things or give away the player or players that got them where they was. The Lakers and the Spurs normally never do stupid things unless they are forced to. Gasol for nothing was one of the greatest trades ever in all the Lakers history. Odom could have easily been traded because they wanted him the superstar and he refused to be a superstar but Jackson was so smart seeing how good he was when he was not asked to be the superstar.

The Spurs are never tapped out for money and they can get better each year and will be better next year. The Mavs got close and we got very close and was making good decisions untill the Kidd trade. How long will this keep us broke? How long will be dead old and how many years will it be before we get a draft pick? Now we are the highest paid team and tapped out. Then you can stay the same or you can trade your best player or best players and when you do this and do not have brilliant minds in your organazation, you can go back to being door mats for years. You give away players like Gasol and even Dirk then things get bad. You must be very careful when you start trading players like Dirk and Howard. We can't get better with money or draft picks. Our dead old Eddie Jones players and even Kidd players won't make us much better trading them. We can't get much in return. But again this is alot better than the older days. When teams like Spurs, Celts and Lakers get close, they know what to do to not go backwards, stay the same and make that step forward for a title. They have brilliant minds within the organazation and coaches. As someone stated in here, another nod for the Lakers for me is Jackson. That is worth 3 points every game. I am not taking anything from Rivers but Jackson and Pops is on another level from other coaches. Sloan is good but he is at the close stage and they need a piece for next year, will they go that way?

The two teams to watch next year is the Jazz and the Spurs. The moves they make and the pieces they add, will it take them over the Lakers? Remember the Lakers won't sit still, they will try to go out and get a young superstar point guard. In the east all eyes are on the Cavs, they are close and maybe a piece away. Will they get it? Orlando has a good future, unless they start giving players away. The Bulls are interesting. The Wizs have way to many holes and they can't get complete by next year. The Pistons are letting "old" get them.

I am not happy at these two teams in the finals but was they the two best? Yes. Both have run great franchises but the Celtics got off track for along time untill they got back on. If we can get thru a year or two of bad and start getting some draft pix back and having some money and not being the highest paid, get a good coach, and add pieces to our star or stars, we can get back to have a chance. Not next year or probably the next two because our big deal was the Kidd trade. That was our title. A miracle i guess could happen with a guy like Reyshawn Terry or some big athletic guys picked off the street, we get lucky on but if that happens it is just lucky. The west will be alot better next year than this year and that is scarry.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-31-2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

Can we hate people because they run great organazations?

I hate people who intentionally ruin OTHER franchises in favor of another.

Kevin McHale, current vice president of operations for the Minnesota Timberwolves, played 13 years for the Boston Celtics and hands Kevin Garnett to the Celtics for chump change.

Jerry West, current president of operations for the Memphis Grizzlies, played 14 years for the Los Angeles Lakers and hands Pau Gasol to the Lakers for even less.

It's all bullsh!t, and we have every right to be outraged.

Janett_Reno · 05-31-2008, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack

I got more to say about this conspiracy thing. This HAS to be the biggest slime ball league of all sports got their wish. This match up has been planned since Boston acquired Garnet. Call me a conspiracy theorist all you want, but before you do...consider this.

1)Jerry West and the Memphis Grizzlies gaze up Pau Gasol for NOTHING.

2)Joey Crawford, a KNOWN Spurs hater, called a clearly one sided game in game 4 including NOT calling a foul on Derek Fisher on the last play.

3)Jerry West, an employee of the damn Grizzlies, presents the Western Conference Championship trophy at center court sobbing with a smile ear to ear. You can almost hear him say "mission accomplished". And yes, I know he's a Laker great, but he still works for the team that made it possible for the Lakers to be where they are now.

Call me a hater. Call me a conspiracy theorist. I call the NBA a league with slime ball tactics lower than pond scum. David Stern from year one, when he rigged the draft so the Knicks could get Patrick Ewing, has been on a mission to make damn sure this league is a profitable one even if it means compromising the integrity of the league and all of sports.

Jerry West and Kobe are best friends. The Lakers have one of the biggest fan base in all basketball and that means money for the nba. It helps the nba, money wise for the lakers to be good and in the playoffs. The Gasol trade is mind blowing. West will probably be back with Kobe and the Lakers at some point. I can't knock the Lakers for making that trade and i will not deny, that Kobe is by far the best in the league and it is a tie on best coach, Pops/Jackson. The Lakers are good and they refuse nothing but success.

Janett_Reno · 05-31-2008, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I hate people who intentionally ruin OTHER franchises in favor of another.

Kevin McHale, current vice president of operations for the Minnesota Timberwolves, played 13 years for the Boston Celtics and hands Kevin Garnett to the Celtics for chump change.

Jerry West, current president of operations for the Memphis Grizzlies, played 14 years for the Los Angeles Lakers and hands Pau Gasol to the Lakers for even less.

It's all bullsh!t, and we have every right to be outraged.

You are right and i have to agree with this but Garnett was going to rot away in MN. They was never going to win. They had made stupid decisions with that sorry pg with braided hair and other players. They had made so many bad deals that trading a Garnett for a Gasol or one player, then the one player they got back was going to rot away in MN. They had to have many players and start again. They needed to get young, athletic and talented and money space. They chose to suck for a couple years and go young and build. Keeping Garnett, risking injury and getting him old and frustrated would not be good for MN. I also think they could have got more but i undertsnad why they did what they did. Yes, him and Ainge was buddy/buddy and this was a big part of the trade and to save Ainges job.

Kobe and Jerry West are great friends and this is no secret but how he pulled off the Gasol for nothing i will never understand. I do not knock the Lakers for doing it. We have done good the hard way and have built but Cuban listening to Avery and letting Avery tear us down was a bad choice within our ornazation. Get Eddie Jones, get Juwan Howard, get rid of Harris because i(Avery) don't like him, make Josh Howard an Antoine Walker shooter, make Stackhouse the superstar. How much damage did Avery do before Cuban caught on and fired him is the question and for how many years. I like Cuban but alot of this is Cubans fault for listening to Avery and putting all his eggs in the old basket and betting on just one year. This year.

Usually Lurkin · 05-31-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

I'm with chum on this one. . . I can't understand why any basketball fan would have rather had a different matchup, at least once the Mavs were eliminated.

what these things should tell you is that there is a hierarchy in the NBA, and the Mavs simply aren't favored.

Quote:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xvpB46StQrg

ugh.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-31-2008, 04:16 PM

Don't you get it? Kevin McHale and Jerry West won big time by pulling off those trades. They weren't trying to rebuild, they abandoned their hopeless projects to assist the teams to which they devoted their entire careers.

It's the only way you can make any sense of the Gasol trade.

alby · 05-31-2008, 04:26 PM

People who don't see that are wearing Stern-goggles

ghazi · 05-31-2008, 04:38 PM

Here's the two ways I look at it

Was NOT collusion:

The Grizzlies wanted to shed Gasol's huge contract, and in doing so, acquire Brown's expiring contract, 20 year old Javaris Crittenton who is loaded with potential, and draft picks to build for the future. Even marc Gasol (who I thought will amount to anything). Furthermore, Gasol isn't really an all-star, he's only been selected to the game once, and is he actually an elite PF in the west? Stoudamire, Brand, Nowitzki, Duncan, Boozer, and perhaps even West are power forwards I would consider better than Gasol... and that's just in the west. Thus, Gasol isn't great, or an all-star... he's "just" a good player.

That it WAS collusion:

The Grizzlies gave up an 18/8 bigman with passing skills for arguably the biggest bust in NBA history, a frickin RETIRED coach, an unproven rookie, and his brother who is probably less skilled and even more soft. They acquired some draft picks that will likely amount to nothing since the Lakers seem like they'll be ATLEAST in the top 3-4 of the league for the next 3-4 years. The Grizzlies have a nice young core of guards, but in doing this trade, are likely a lottery team for the next 3 years atleast. There certainly were better deals out there than Brown/McKie/Gasol/Crittenton/picks, weren't there?! Considering the shady role of Jerry West, this trade was rigged up the mf'n ass!

I dunno which to believe in!

Janett_Reno · 05-31-2008, 04:42 PM

I see this but what can a nba fan do about it? Can you go to Stern and tell him we want to trade Eddie Jones for Amare? Make this happen. We actually got a good trade when we got Dirk.

The Spurs and the Lakers have a tendency of making good trades. The Gasol trade was one of maybe the worst trades ever but we can't turn it around and make Stern make Gasol go back to Memphis.

We can't try to make Celtics, Heat, Lakers, Suns, Spurs worse. We must worry about the Dallas Mavs and make our team better. No excuses but to build, draft pix, have money and cap space, make good trades and put ourself in position to beat the Lakers or Spurs, no matter if Larry Bird and Magic come out of retirement but beat them with our team. We must fill our wek spots and our holes. We can't get older and we must be able to score a few points in the painted area. We are hurting at shooting guard on defense and not being able to drive. So in the end, we can't dictate what the Spurs/Lakers do but we must prepare ourself to beat them, no matter how great they get and no matter how they get that way(with gasol).

Dirkadirkastan · 05-31-2008, 04:47 PM

Actually, "we" can't do anything about the Mavs either.

Anyway, I don't see how that's relevant. The point is that it doesn't matter what happens now, the league has already won. Evil has prevailed.

nikeball · 05-31-2008, 04:47 PM

dammit stern

Janett_Reno · 05-31-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

Here's the two ways I look at it

Was NOT collusion:

The Grizzlies wanted to shed Gasol's huge contract, and in doing so, acquire Brown's expiring contract, 20 year old Javaris Crittenton who is loaded with potential, and draft picks to build for the future. Even marc Gasol (who I thought will amount to anything). Furthermore, Gasol isn't really an all-star, he's only been selected to the game once, and is he actually an elite PF in the west? Stoudamire, Brand, Nowitzki, Duncan, Boozer, and perhaps even West are power forwards I would consider better than Gasol... and that's just in the west. Thus, Gasol isn't great, or an all-star... he's "just" a good player.

That it WAS collusion:

The Grizzlies gave up an 18/8 bigman with passing skills for arguably the biggest bust in NBA history, a frickin RETIRED coach, an unproven rookie, and his brother who is probably less skilled and even more soft. They acquired some draft picks that will likely amount to nothing since the Lakers seem like they'll be ATLEAST in the top 3-4 of the league for the next 3-4 years. The Grizzlies have a nice young core of guards, but in doing this trade, are likely a lottery team for the next 3 years atleast. There certainly were better deals out there than Brown/McKie/Gasol/Crittenton/picks, weren't there?! Considering the shady role of Jerry West, this trade was rigged up the mf'n ass!

I dunno which to believe in!

I know a big fan in Memphis that has season tickets. He hates Mike Miller because he is soft, wants to just shoot and play offense and goes away or blows it at the end of a game. What i have seen of Miller, he is good at what he does. This same fan was very pissed at Gasol and wanted him gone and said he was soft. He really liked Battier because he would not blow it in the clutch and would hit a big 3 or block a shot or get the winning rebound. It was so many mixed emotions in Memphis and they could never get past the Spurs or in the playoffs. Myself, i feel they had a good solid team that was a threat and blew it up and made very bad decisions and could suck for along time. This is not the Jerry West i know. It was talks of Kobe going to Memphis with Jerry West. How could he now? I don't see any possible way now.

It is almost like Jerry West is still working for the Lakers. Maybe Crittenton is going to be a superstar but i can't see it. As far as Gasol being a star or just being solid, maybe that is yet to be seen. He is good and very solid and i can see where he could be a star but we will just have to see. He came into the league soft but not now. Kobe is so great and he is doubled or trippled so much and he also makes good passes and smart decisions, that he makes anyone around him better. Odom and Gasol could become stars but is it because of them or is it because of Kobe? This is just how good Kobe is and he has no weakness. I watched Bowen on him and i know how good Bowen is and Bowen is older but Kobe was amazing what he was doing to Bowen and what he made Duncan do.

You have a point, did Mem really feel they was doing what Mn was doing, getting young and moving Gasol? It just seems to me they got nothing in return. MN does have alot of younger talneted players. I know Gasol wasn't Garnett but alot of people wanted Gasol. I know it sux to see the good or the better teams just get better and the weaker ones get worse but this seems to repeat itself so much. Atlanta seems to maybe have turned the corner.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-31-2008, 05:08 PM

When Jerry West presents the Western Conference trophy to the Lakers, after already handing it to them figuratively as the Grizz prez during the season, how do you not see this as phony?

Flacolaco · 05-31-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I'm still pissed about this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xvpB46StQrg

The worst part about that is Reggies commentary of the replay.

Clearly, Damp is leaning the other way, trying to favor the side where he has the ball, and he's looking at the ball, trying to break free, and Peirce is just hanging on him. And reggie starts running his mouth about how Damp has a hold of him....

ghazi · 05-31-2008, 05:30 PM

ugh too much laker love on here!

boston is the lesser of two evils people!

Dirkadirkastan · 05-31-2008, 05:31 PM

There is only one evil, and it already won. Season is over.

Janett_Reno · 05-31-2008, 05:32 PM

I am pulling for Boston but i feel Kobe is to much for them, especially since he got a low post player.

alby · 05-31-2008, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

ugh too much laker love on here!

boston is the lesser of two evils people!

there's always too much laker love, it's sickening

Tokey41 · 05-31-2008, 06:18 PM

I'd rather have L.A win this thing, I hate Kobe a lot less than someone as overrated as KG. The Celtics don't deserve to win, they have played poorly all playoffs in an extremely weak East (A seven game series with the Cavs is bad enough but the Hawks? Seriously?). Meanwhile the Lakers emerged with the best record in the west this season but they survived the bloodbath and extreme competition the Celtics would have likely succumbed to.

spreedom · 05-31-2008, 06:25 PM

I'm definitely pulling for LA here. Not only to I think they're a lot more fun to watch (read: Kobe) but I absolutely hate every single Boston/New England sports franchise -- especially with BSPN sucking all of them off.

I definitely think Kobe is one of my three or four favorite non-Mavs of all-time. I'd love to see him put a pretty big beating on a Boston team. Go Lakers!

alby · 05-31-2008, 06:28 PM

You don't think KCal9 sucks the Lakers off? Have you heard one of their games??

sike · 05-31-2008, 06:44 PM

As crazy as it sounds to me...I think I want the Lakers to win as well, spreedom.

spreedom · 05-31-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

As crazy as it sounds to me...I think I want the Lakers to win as well, spreedom.

I might have to take a screenshot of this... this is the first time anyone has ever included the name "spreedom" without the phrase "I hate" in front of it!

Go Lakers!