Is Anyone Gonna Say It?

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by Lor20

because their players are some of the worst jump shooters in the league. the four teams are between 41 and 44% eFG% on jump shots. most of the good offenses in the league are around the 47-48% range.

Don't get me wrong... jump shots are important as they make up 2/3 of all shot attempts overall. The problem is that the only plan B most guys on this team have to jump shots is force feeding Dirk and hoping for the best - and even then that usually means a jump shot).

We are a one dimensional team that is fairly easy to figure out in a playoff series. This is why we consistently have good regular seasons and sub-par playoffs. We have nothing to change things up in games 2,3,4,5 etc and teams know coming into game 1 what to prepare for.

The championship teams of the past have usually not had one superstar carry the load - Kobe has Gasol and Bynum/Odom taking a lot of pressure off of him.

Pierce/Allen and Garnett... one of them having a not so great game still doesnt mean you lose.

San antonio - you never know if its ginobili or parker having a big night or possibly duncan.

even miami had shaq and wade

On the mavs team - if dirks shot doesn't fall we are pretty much screwed.

Even if Dirk is an absolute beast, we're still screwed.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Two peas in a pod of stupidity.

Some good points in this post.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Lor20

because their players are some of the worst jump shooters in the league. the four teams are between 41 and 44% eFG% on jump shots. most of the good offenses in the league are around the 47-48% range.

Don't get me wrong... jump shots are important as they make up 2/3 of all shot attempts overall. The problem is that the only plan B most guys on this team have to jump shots is force feeding Dirk and hoping for the best - and even then that usually means a jump shot).

...their players are some of the worst jump shooters in the league because they are guys who are better at scoring close to the basket, which you just said was the key to "scoring consistently." But now you're saying, "The key to scoring consistently is points in the paint, but also making jump shots"? No offense, but that's not exactly very enlightening.

Thig is absolutely right. The key to scoring consistently isn't getting points in the paint, it's getting easy baskets. It doesn't matter how you get them. Oftentimes points in the paint are easy baskets, but the two aren't synonyms. For a team like this one, the two will never be synonyms. The Mavs have done a good job for years of getting easy baskets without high points in the paint. The key isn't to get more points in the paint, but to continue executing their efficient jumpshooting offense.

[markus1234]

BTW, let's say Dirk is our Al Jefferson...

....who is our Gordon Hayward then ?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Lor20

yes and no.... there is a correlation between where you score and how consistently you score. the closer to the basket the less inconsistent the scoring gets which is why the mavs let other teams go on long runs and cant stop them.

there is also a correlation between how and where you score and how many fouls you draw which can make things easier for you on offense and harder for the other team. definetly something the mavs do not do well either.

The top five teams in Free Throw Attempts in the NBA this season are Denver, Ok City, Miami, Clippers, Orlando.

Here's those five teams, with where they rank on points in the paint:

Denver: 6, Ok City 11, Miami: 25!, Clippers 3, Orlando: 27!.

And yes, over the course of NBA history, there has been a correlation between scoring in the paint and the best scorers. But there is no causation. There is no proof that simply scoring in the paint is the magic elixir to an offense. It's simply that in the past, many of the great scorers happened to do their work in the paint.

The rules changes for perimeter defense, and the use of the three point line as a weapon has changed that formula. Some of the best offenses, and best offensive players, in the league are guys that rarely sniff the paint.

As I've said numerous times on this board, I get why people say "we need post scoring". But what they REALLY mean is, "we need better scoring", or "we need more good scorers".

And if someone is going to try to argue that Dirk is somehow less of a scorer because he does it outside rather than inside, well they're going to make themselves look silly.

[dude1394]

Mavs offense seldom has been our problem, it's been the lack of a championship defense to go along with it.

[Murphy3]

And let's be honest... the whole concept of scoring in the paint is kinda stupid to begin with. So, if you're shooting at a bit of an angle from the bucket, an easy 8 footer isn't in the paint. But if you're shooting a 14 foot mid range jumper near the FT line, you are in the paint. Let's realize what the paint is and isn't. The paint was designed based upon the FT.. not based upon the easiest places on the court to hit shots. The NBA needs to come up with an imaginary semi circle to use on there telecasts similar to the NFL and the first down line.. Perhaps the semi-circle includes everything within 12 feet..or 10 feet. The Paint doesn't. Why? Because it was created for the Free Throw.

[Lor20]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

...their players are some of the worst jump shooters in the league because they are guys who are better at scoring close to the basket, which you just said was the key to "scoring consistently." But now you're saying, "The key to scoring consistently is points in the paint, but also making jump shots"? No offense, but that's not exactly very enlightening.

Thig is absolutely right. The key to scoring consistently isn't getting points in the paint, it's getting easy baskets. It doesn't matter how you get them. Oftentimes points in the paint are easy baskets, but the two aren't synonyms. For a team like this one, the two will never be synonyms. The Mavs have done a good job for years of getting easy baskets without high points in the paint. The key isn't to get more points in the paint, but to continue executing their efficient jumpshooting offense.

I was only replying to your mention of the four teams with the most points in the paint.

I never claimed that just scoring points in the paint was the be-all-end-all. The problem is that you need a healthy mix of penetration and jump shots and the mavs are lacking penetration and post scoring.

I can't think of any recent championship team that didn't have either good post scoring or good penetration but only good jump shooters.

You simply don't win a lot of playoff games if you have nothing to change up when your jump shooters are off and the ones that are on get double teamed.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Lor20

I was only replying to your mention of the four teams with the most points in the paint.

I never claimed that just scoring points in the paint was the be-all-end-all. The problem is that you need a healthy mix of penetration and jump shots and the mavs are lacking penetration and post scoring.

I can't think of any recent championship team that didn't have either good post scoring or good penetration but only good jump shooters.

You simply don't win a lot of playoff games if you have nothing to change up when your jump shooters are off and the ones that are on get double teamed.

I agree with the general sentiment that the Mavs have difficulty scoring, but I'm just not seeing why "more paint scorers" is the answer. What the Mavs really need is more good scorers, whether they're guys who score in the paint or elsewhere.

[dude1394]

The one thing the desperately need are players who can drive the ball. Watching Denver tonight they drove the ball from every position. It puts pressure on the defense.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by dude1394

The one thing the desperately need are players who can drive the ball. Watching Denver tonight they drove the ball from every position. It puts pressure on the defense.

indeed. Roddy has the speed but not the instincts and hasnt even really been trying. Kidd and Terry lost that ability years ago.

Brewer was actually extremely effective when he was aggressive toward the rim. He just cant be our only player driving and all we need is 1-2 guys that can confuse an offense before we get open shots for Peja/Terry or space for Dirk to move or a defensive rotation leaving Chandler open for the oop.

I think offensive movement is our single biggest concern going forward. As NBA defenses have clamped down, we've seen Kidd become completely useless offensively except for an uncommon three and at the same time our offense became slow, labored and inefficient (even with Dirk). Legitimate NBA teams MUST have either a creating PG or an SG capable of creating havoc.

The teams that can compete:

Parker/Ginobli +1 post threat
Bryant +2 post threats
Rose
Paul +1 post threat (West if he was healthy)
Wade/LeBron
Rondo
Nelson +post threat

The borderline teams:
A. Miller
Westbrook (the worst of those but with a Dirk-esque player he doesnt have to be as solid scoring)

Its pretty obvious that with enough scoring, no team really needs a post presence to compete, but NO team can compete without a guard that can cause a commotion.

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by xrobx

i don't know what all this "3 seed locked up" nonsense is all about, when OKC is just 2.5 games back and we're losing every game

make that 1 game back.

still locked up?

lol

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by Axilla

first off, good luck to the spurs as well.

2nd, i think the tangible is there to complain about.
dirk doesn't play his position the way he should. this affects the rest of the team and in basketball, it takes more than one or 2 players.

There is no doubt that dirk is superior to a vast amount of players as a specimen and collection of skills. But those skills do not and have not fostered the type of basketball that needs to be played in order to win a championship.
mavs play around the perimeter instead of inside-out--greatly because dirk doesn't like the paint.

i'm only trying to critique the philosophy and direction of the mavs. how could a valid assessment be made if the best player and focus of the offense is not mentioned?

[endrity]

epic bump!

[markus1234]

This thread is just

[irishock]

Dirk needs to man the fuck up and demand the ball in the post. He's playing like he doesn't even care with his ring. He's on pace for his worst statistical season since his sophomore year, christ. If he doesn't up his usage rate, the Mavs won't make the playoffs.

[markus1234]

He should take an example from Kobe and realize that it is a CONTRACT YEAR for him and for Kobe.

And why "contract year" ?

Dwight and Deron will not "marry" a "sinking ship". That's why. I am pretty sure they will take a close look at Dirk's and Kobe's stats at the end of the seaon....and then decide where to go.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by irishock

Dirk needs to man the fuck up and demand the ball in the post. He's playing like he doesn't even care with his ring. He's on pace for his worst statistical season since his sophomore year, christ. If he doesn't up his usage rate, the Mavs won't make the playoffs.

I must spread reputation before I give you more red boxes.

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by markus1234

He should take an example from Kobe and realize that it is a CONTRACT YEAR for him and for Kobe.

And why "contract year" ?

Dwight and Deron will not "marry" a "sinking ship". That's why. I am pretty sure they will take a close look at Dirk's and Kobe's stats at the end of the seaon....and then decide where to go.

But wait...in the other forum you keep saying that Dwight doesn't want to join Kobe's team or Dirk's team. You keep saying he wants to win a franchise's 1st championship.

Which is it, and how do you know so much about Dwight Howard's way of thinking?

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by markus1234

He should take an example from Kobe and realize that it is a CONTRACT YEAR for him and for Kobe.

And why "contract year" ?

Dwight and Deron will not "marry" a "sinking ship". That's why. I am pretty sure they will take a close look at Dirk's and Kobe's stats at the end of the seaon....and then decide where to go.

Can't tell if serious.

[Rick41]

Originally Posted by markus1234

He should take an example from Kobe and realize that it is a CONTRACT YEAR for him and for Kobe.

And why "contract year" ?

Dwight and Deron will not "marry" a "sinking ship". That's why. I am pretty sure they will take a close look at Dirk's and Kobe's stats at the end of the seaon....and then decide where to go.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by markus1234

He should take an example from Kobe and realize that it is a CONTRACT YEAR for him and for Kobe.

And why "contract year" ?

Dwight and Deron will not "marry" a "sinking ship". That's why. I am pretty sure they will take a close look at Dirk's and Kobe's stats at the end of the seaon....and then decide where to go.

So they are going to look at Kobe's stats, which have been inflated by taking a ton of shots, and then decide to go to a team where neither one could receive a Max contract?

[SeanL]

good thing we picked up yi jianlian.

[Budapest Maverick]

I had to double check the date, this thread really was created last season? The season where we started out, what, 21-5, and Dirk was an early top MVP candidate? The season where Dirk had the best scoring efficiency of his career? The season where he proved once and for all that a bad shot for every superstar in NBA history, is a great shot for him? http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/201...range-shooters

(He's really playing bad right now though, but he's clearly injured, and i think Carlisle should sit him a couple of games, what do you guys think? Obviousy, they know better than us, but still. I hope Dirk is not trying to play through a sprain.).

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

(He's really playing bad right now though, but he's clearly injured, and i think Carlisle should sit him a couple of games, what do you guys think? Obviousy, they know better than us, but still. I hope Dirk is not trying to play through a sprain.).

I think it is not a sprain.



January 2011

I think it is chronic and he just needs some rest. He is not jumping well right now and his slightly different/lower shot curve makes him miss...

[irishock]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I must spread reputation before I give you more red boxes.

Am I wrong though? Did we play very well when Dirk was clanking jumpers all day and not posting up?

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by irishock

Am I wrong though? Did we play very well when Dirk was clanking jumpers all day and not posting up?

Its hard to know what you said since most of what comes out of you is s***.

[twistaeffect2004]

Originally Posted by irishock

Am I wrong though? Did we play very well when Dirk was clanking jumpers all day and not posting up?

Sometimes the shots don't fall, it's really that simple. There are probably other variables which have led to Dirk shooting poorly (for his standards) other than it being "he's resting on his laurels, he has his ring, he doesn't try hard anymore" and all the other cynical mumbo jumbo that unfortunately gets plastered on our computer screens when you post. Compare the shots he received tonight to the shots he was getting while he was struggling. I guarantee they are very similar, most from the elbow. In fact, I can remember a couple of times he was wide open and just missed it (tired legs.. remember those *variables* I mentioned above?)

Not everything is black and white. These guys aren't robots.. it takes time, and with this condensed schedule guys (especially older ones) are going to have heavy legs so expect some crappy shooting lines from time-to-time, even from a guy who will go down as one of the greatest shooters to ever live.

It seems you like getting under peoples skins, hence your ridiculous signature, so I probably shouldn't have put any thought into this post considering who I'm rebutting, but I already put forth the typing so it's too late to go back.

In conclusion.. you're a moron.

[Budapest Maverick]

Dirk is still clearly not totally healthy, his jumpers were great last night, but his movement was very slow, without any kind of explosion. But it must be something he can play through, because otherwise he wouldn't play. The team was very cautious with those things in the last couple of years.

[endrity]

Don't feed the troll people.