When West and Haywood come back...

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Roddy versus terry is no contest, roddy fails.

Both fail this year, that's the sad truth.

[dude1394]

Roddy just has not shown the ability to be aggressive and run the team. Nor has he shown the ability to be consistently aggressive as the shooting guard. Nor has he shown the ability to run the point worth a durn.

Carlisle has forced him to defend however,,which he should be forever grateful.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

My question, why would you think he's gonna make a difference for us, when he's just as average as Roddy this year? They're not horrible, but they're pretty average.

West simply is not as average as Roddy. If you do not get it, your problem.

Without West our whole PG/SG/SF rotation does not work. And Marion is probably the biggest "victim" of West' absence.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Both fail this year, that's the sad truth.

I just disagree about jet. He's going through a bad stretch as is the entire team. His stats are not that far off from last year, I expect that's because he started so well this year. His effort defensively is always an issue. As far as the rest of it, I think the entire team isn't executing worth a crap. No one really.

As Ive mentioned before I also think jet is pretty negatively effected without having the Tyson lob threat. The opposing img team has nothing to get from really aggressively contesting shots in the lane this year versus last.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Roddy just has not shown the ability to be aggressive and run the team. Nor has he shown the ability to be consistently aggressive as the shooting guard. Nor has he shown the ability to run the point worth a durn.

Carlisle has forced him to defend however,,which he should be forever grateful.

I agree, he didn't. The problem, West didn't show it either, and Terry sucks donkey balls all year as well. Kidd is not much better himself, and Carter is plummeting after the good start, like a meteor. Does any team has a worse back court? I really don't even wanna think about, beacuse i really think i'd take any back court in the NBA right now.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by markus1234

West simply is not as average as Roddy. If you do not get it, your problem.

Without West our whole PG/SG/SF rotation does not work. And Marion is probably the biggest "victim" of West' absence.

You didn't even try to make a point, why do you think that. It's pretty useless to argue with you.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

I agree, he didn't. The problem, West didn't show it either, and Terry sucks donkey balls all year as well. Kidd is not much better himself, and Carter is plummeting after the good start, like a meteor. Does any team has a worse back court? I really don't even wanna think about, beacuse i really think i'd take any back court in the NBA right now.

See above wrt jet, I just disagree.... The difference is that with rest they will probably elevate their play, they've shown it for years... Roddy might..but his problems are much more mental than physical to me. Harder to fix.

[Underdog]

Reading this thread is almost as hard as watching a Mavs game these days - the parallels of fail are about equal.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

You didn't even try to make a point, why do you think that. It's pretty useless to argue with you.

What do you want to hear ?

Delonte West is

- consistent on both ends
- plays agressive
- is experienced
- opponents respect him
- attacks the basket
- guards elite PG's
- draws fouls
- takes charges

Roddy is

- inconsistent on both ends
- plays out of control
- in inexperienced
- opponents do not respect/fear him
- attacks the basket only in fast breaks ..because -->
- has bad ball handling skills and low BBIQ, no dribble penetration in half court
- can't guard elite PG's (Marion is forced to chase them)
- soft on D

- Roddy is a better shot blocker...usually after his own turnover (but we do not need it. What we need are PG skills)

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

No he didn't. Thing is, our offense sucks all year long, no matter who plays. That's the sad reality about our offense. We were able to win games thanks to our defense, which went to absolute s**t, once Haywood was out. Our offense won't improve, unless numerous players starts to play better, and Haywood can be a more effective screener.

If you guys really think West will be a difference maker, that tells me 2 things, you didn't watch our games carefully enough when he was playing, and/or we're in a really sad state.

The guy had a handful of good games this year, and has basically the same scoring numbers (on volume, and effectiveness as well) as Roddy, virtually giving out the same assist per game PER36, with slightly more turnovers. I would also argue that Roddy played better defense this year. Now don't get me wrong, i'm not saying Roddy was great, what i'm saying West is basically giving us the same painfully average production from the guard spot, even as a PG. If you really think we're gonna be a much better team because of Delonte freakin' West, well, as i said, we're really in a sad state at the moment.

Great point. If everyone in the locker room is waiting on Delonte West to bring them some wins, we are definitely in a sad state. Yeah he's an extra consistent body, but he wasnt doing anything off the charts.

We're riding this ship all the way til the end. 36-30 to end the season. Hopefully thats a seed in the playoffs.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Delonte West attempts at the rim in 2011/12 : 57 attempts 33 made field goals, 57% completion rate.

Roddy attempts at the rim in 2011/2012 : 53 attempts, 37 made field goals, 69% completion rate.

They're almost the same in minutes. The truth is, both shooting much more jumpers than they should. Can we finally put this myth to rest?



Well, he is a good defender, if i remember correctly though, Roddy's defensive stats are even better this year, including pick&roll defense, but yes, West can certainly help in that department.



West is shooting 32% from deep this year. That's really average, he's right there with Terry, and Roddy in that department this year, so why are they gonna suddenly pressure him? Why are we going to play better with him because of his 3-point shot, when he's putting up the same average numbers from deep, like every other guards on the roster?



Again, he's virtually putting up the same assist/to ratio than Roddy, very pedestrian numbers from both, they're not really PG's. Which isn't a problem imo, but you expect them to play pure point. They're both combo guards. They won't do it. You know Roddy won't, you should expect the same thing from West.



Doesn't really do anything with it, even if true, as proved above, doesn't really attack the rim much, doesn't really assist much from penetration plays, inconsistent pull-up shooter, again, what will he give us on the attack? In reality, not science-fiction, guys.



You consider that a good thing, because you overrate West's season, and clearly have no idea what you're talking about in this subject. In reality, West is just as average this year, as Roddy, and JET.



Why do we have to wait for him to come back to do that?



So no, you're wrong.

1. You can't just look at raw "attempts at the rim" without contextualizing it. Roddy has played a lot of garbage time minutes. Moreover, despite those numbers, watching the game, West is clearly the better of the two at attacking.

Actually, lets go even further. West takes it inside MORE than Roddy as well.

Per 82games.com, West is taking 24% of his shots from Close. Roddy only 19%.

More importantly, West actually ATTACKS off of the Dirk PnR whereas Roddy just does nothing or jacks up a jumper. Roddy is entirely too indecisive on the PnR, and if you can't see that West runs it better, than you're blinded by your French love.

2. West is a much better defender and it isn't even close. The Mavs give up .7 more PP100 with Roddy on the bench. They give up a whopping 4.4 more PP100 with West on the bench. So again, YOU'RE wrong. Not to mention Roddy's defense has gone to hell recently.

3. You know how I know you have a biased agenda? You gave it away right here. West is shooting 32.7% from three, yet you rounded it down to 32%. Opps. Maybe they do math differently in Budapest...

Moreover, West is a career 37% three-point shooter, so he's a constant threat and helps spacing. It helps because he is on the floor for other reasons where he's better than Roddy, but can also hit the three. Teams have been GIVING Roddy the jumper lately, btw.

4. West is a much, much better PG and it isn't even close. Again, you're just wrong. West has an ASST% of 26% vs. Roddy's 21%. Big difference. Not to mention the simple eye-test. Roddy CANNOT run the offense. Everyone knows it. He just can't. Doesn't have a clue. It's not just about stats. West can, and has experience, running an offense.

You don't seem to know much about what's going on on the basketball court. You rely on stats, which you cherry pick, as most of them don't back your "argument". There's a reason the Mavs have looked awful without West and Roddy getting significant PG minutes.

Thank you, come again.

[mavs777]

Think you mean west is the better pg

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Think you mean west is the better pg

Lol, yes.

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by markus1234

What do you want to hear ?

Delonte West is

- consistent on both ends
- plays agressive
- is experienced
- opponents respect him
- attacks the basket
- guards elite PG's
- draws fouls
- takes charges
- injury prone

Roddy is

- inconsistent on both ends
- plays out of control
- in inexperienced
- opponents do not respect/fear him
- attacks the basket only in fast breaks ..because -->
- has bad ball handling skills and low BBIQ, no dribble penetration in half court
- can't guard elite PG's (Marion is forced to chase them)
- soft on D

- Roddy is a better shot blocker...usually after his own turnover (but we do not need it. What we need are PG skills)

Fixed that for ya...

[clutch#41]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Roddy versus terry is no contest, roddy fails.

if roddy and terry played 1 on 1 my money is on Roddy. he would shut terry down with his D

[4DN1]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Mahinmi has a pretty long way to go before he's a starting center. Probably another three years and that is assuming he works hard and beefs up some more.

I'm saying when Mahinmi is ready, he'll be a better starter than Haywood. Haywood is just a big body to keep in the paint. His rebounding is inconsistent and i feel like he often lacks big man defense.

[Dale4Saul2Red0]

West is pretty key. He allows us to do different things. He will instantly improve the defense. Still though we seem to lack focus at times. Haywood is going to help too. We just need to try and stay afloat and finish solid enough to get in the playoffs. I really think that is the main thing this organization is trying to do right now. No need to rush anyone back either as long as we don't have to. Play it smart. Fresh for the push.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by 4DN1

I'm saying when Mahinmi is ready, he'll be a better starter than Haywood. Haywood is just a big body to keep in the paint. His rebounding is inconsistent and i feel like he often lacks big man defense.

Stupid post is stupid.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by 4DN1

I'm saying when Mahinmi is ready, he'll be a better starter than Haywood. Haywood is just a big body to keep in the paint. His rebounding is inconsistent and i feel like he often lacks big man defense.

I'm not sure what you see defensively that you don't see from Haywood, but either way you probably picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by CadBane

1. You can't just look at raw "attempts at the rim" without contextualizing it. Roddy has played a lot of garbage time minutes. Moreover, despite those numbers, watching the game, West is clearly the better of the two at attacking.

No, he didn't. You probably read this above, and thought you're gonna use it, because there are no player garbage time stats out there to search during the season. (or is there?) When are those garbage times happened? First of all, we played lots of close games this year, and when everybody was healthy, Roddy had even some dnp, i remember some poster asking why he's not playing when he could in the 4th, on those handful of games where blew out some team. Where are those magical garbage times? I looked up our wins and losses, and as i said, overall only handful of games can even come to play here. You're surely wrong on this one.

Originally Posted by CadBane

Actually, lets go even further. West takes it inside MORE than Roddy as well.

Per 82games.com, West is taking 24% of his shots from Close. Roddy only 19%.

More importantly, West actually ATTACKS off of the Dirk PnR whereas Roddy just does nothing or jacks up a jumper. Roddy is entirely too indecisive on the PnR, and if you can't see that West runs it better, than you're blinded by your French love.

You might be right about the pick&roll attacking, overall though, West doesn't really takes it much to the rim. Again, my point was not that Roddy is attacking the rim that much, my point neither does! Both are taking more jumpers. They have like 2 attempts at the rim, per game! How West is attacking the rim on the Dirk pick&roll when he has 2 attempts per game at the rim? Tell me.

Originally Posted by CadBane

2. West is a much better defender and it isn't even close. The Mavs give up .7 more PP100 with Roddy on the bench. They give up a whopping 4.4 more PP100 with West on the bench. So again, YOU'RE wrong. Not to mention Roddy's defense has gone to hell recently.

No s**t, we give up more points without Marion and Haywood on the floor? I'm shocked. West is a more versatile defender, better this year though? I don't think so. Both are very good on defense this year, that's not where our problem is anyway, it's pointless to argue about that.

Originally Posted by CadBane

3. You know how I know you have a biased agenda? You gave it away right here. West is shooting 32.7% from three, yet you rounded it down to 32%. Opps. Maybe they do math differently in Budapest...

You got it all wrong. I'm not campaigning for Roddy here. My point was they're both average this year. They're giving up the same average production! The rounding down thing was an honest mistake. What you implying didn't even cross my mind.

Moreover, West is a career 37% three-point shooter, so he's a constant threat and helps spacing. It helps because he is on the floor for other reasons where he's better than Roddy, but can also hit the three. Teams have been GIVING Roddy the jumper lately, btw.

Originally Posted by CadBane

4. West is a much, much better PG and it isn't even close. Again, you're just wrong. West has an ASST% of 26% vs. Roddy's 21%. Big difference. Not to mention the simple eye-test. Roddy CANNOT run the offense. Everyone knows it. He just can't. Doesn't have a clue. It's not just about stats. West can, and has experience, running an offense.

West is NOT a PG. He was never a true PG. His assist % maybe slightly better than Roddy's, but he was always a spot-up shooter on offense, and a lockdown defender on the other end, that's his thing. Again, it's not about the comparison, it's just a sideway, shouldn't even have mention Roddy. West never actually run an offense.

Which offense did he run? In Boston, they always ran it through Pierce when he was there, in Cleveland, it was obviously Lebron. Maybe his one year in Seattle? Don't remember that one.

You don't seem to know much about what's going on on the basketball court. You rely on stats, which you cherry pick, as most of them don't back your "argument". There's a reason the Mavs have looked awful without West and Roddy getting significant PG minutes.

The other thing, i know West is a better, more consistent 3-point shooter, but again, i was talking about the actual production he gave us, which was right there with Roddy's especially if you factor in Roddy's much bigger volume, and again, my point is, they're both painfully average this year, from 3. Waiting for a better production, because of that, is not a realistic goal imo. I do anticipate a raise in production level, but it will be a collective thing, if it will happen. Waiting for West like he's a savior, is just stupid imo.

Originally Posted by CadBane

Thank you, come again.

You're so cute, when you get all serious. Also, arguing with you... Man, it's pointless! You're never gonna admit if you're wrong about something. I hate arguing with posters like you. I have no problem admitting if i'm wrong about something, and you can actually show me, but since i post here, i've never seen you do it, in any case. You think you're never wrong.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

No, he didn't. You probably read this above, and thought you're gonna use it, because there are no player garbage time stats out there to search during the season. (or is there?) When are those garbage times happened?

some examples...about 25min garbage time.

11:12 63-85 Rodrigue Beaubois makes 1-foot two point shot (Jason Terry assists)
10:53 63-87 Rodrigue Beaubois makes driving layup
10:41 63-87 Rodrigue Beaubois defensive rebound

6:20 69-92 Rodrigue Beaubois enters the game for Lamar Odom
3:02 71-99 Rodrigue Beaubois defensive rebound
2:19 71-99 Rodrigue Beaubois defensive rebound

6:47 Rodrigue Beaubois enters the game for Jason Terry 103-81
6:20 Rodrigue Beaubois defensive rebound 105-81
1:27 Rodrigue Beaubois defensive rebound 119-96
0:29 Rodrigue Beaubois makes two point shot (Dominique Jones assists) 122-96

5:33 Rodrigue Beaubois enters the game for Jason Terry 77-97
2:59 Rodrigue Beaubois makes free throw 1 of 2 80-103
2:59 Rodrigue Beaubois makes free throw 2 of 2 81-103

Here you can find more of them....

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelo...rigue-beaubois

[Budapest Maverick]

Again, we barely played games that had any garbage time in them. On rare occasions where it had, somebody had to play, right? Show me any proof that Roddy has bad second quarter stats, and very good garbage time stats. Scratch that, first of all show me he played a significant amount in garbage time, compared to West.

When you showed that, and we agree that he played so much in garbage time that it could actually sway his overall stats, then compare those stats with his regular stats, and get back to me. Again, you're just throwing stuff at the wall, and hoping some of it will stick. Your examples doesn't even add up to 1 garbage time minute per game. What the f are we talking about?

[jthig32]

This is, admittedly, flimsy evidence, but as far as I can tell, the BReference.com play index only allows you to put the scoring margin of a game into the search criteria if you're looking for shots. The results are:

For this season, during the fourth quarter when the Mavs are up or down 15 points or less, Roddy has 15 FGA in 6 games and West has 16 in 8 games. Obviously they will only register as having played in the game if they took a shot.

For this season, during the fourth quarter when the Mavs are up or down 16 or more, Roddy has 15 FGA in 6 games and West has 4 FGA in 1 game.

Now, this is obviously very crude information, but unless you think that Delonte has played in a handful of blowouts and simply not taken a shot during that time (possible, I suppose), this does seem to back up what I consider to be a very obvious observation that Roddy has played significantly more garbage time than Delonte.

I'd be curious to know if Joshi has the appropriate data to query minutes played based on scoring margin.

Beyond the discussion of garbage time, I'd just like to say that I have little use for anyone that completely discounts advanced stats, and I have even less use for any analysis performed based solely on them. The on/off court numbers at 82games.com has Marion listed as a net negative player for this season and last season, and the numbers say that we allow 4 fewer points per 48 minutes with him on the bench. Would anyone on this board like to claim that the Mavs are better defensively when Marion sits? No.

Also, one thing I haven't seen mentioned in the debate (although I could have missed it) is that Delonte defense both guard positions well, while Roddy to my eyes, only excels defending PG's.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by jthig32

This is, admittedly, flimsy evidence, but as far as I can tell, the BReference.com play index only allows you to put the scoring margin of a game into the search criteria if you're looking for shots. The results are:

For this season, during the fourth quarter when the Mavs are up or down 15 points or less, Roddy has 15 FGA in 6 games and West has 16 in 8 games. Obviously they will only register as having played in the game if they took a shot.

I don't understand, first, you say this.

Originally Posted by jthig32

For this season, during the fourth quarter when the Mavs are up or down 16 or more, Roddy has 15 FGA in 6 games and West has 4 FGA in 1 game.

And after that, this. Am i reading this right, the only difference, is that you use 16 points deficit, or advantage here? I don't get it.

Originally Posted by jthig32

Now, this is obviously very crude information, but unless you think that Delonte has played in a handful of blowouts and simply not taken a shot during that time (possible, I suppose), this does seem to back up what I consider to be a very obvious observation that Roddy has played significantly more garbage time than Delonte.

So what are we saying in reference to Cad Bane, and markus' claim, that those 15 garbage time shot attempts, which would add a whooping 0,53333 attempt per game, are somehow padding his stat? I know you didn't say that, but they're saying exactly that.

What i read from those stats, is that we barely played any garbage time this year. 15 shot attempts in 30 games, from a high usage guy like Roddy? I think it's clear as day his stats aren't affected by that. I don't think i ever claimed Roddy didn't play more garbage time minutes than West. What i claimed, is that we barely played any garbage time, as most our games were either close, or in striking distance, we were either down, or up 4-6-8-10 in the fourth. We obviously barely blew any team out this year, because of our offense. So again, how is their original claim is right? It's not, especially if you factor in that Roddy comes in against starters in both the first, and third quarter.

[dude1394]

Stats this year are pretty dirty. I actually discount many of them this year. It is all about rest and health for me. The rest of it is pretty much garbage and little to be gleaned from it.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

I don't understand, first, you say this.



And after that, this. Am i reading this right, the only difference, is that you use 16 points deficit, or advantage here? I don't get it.

I'm not sure what's not to get. First query is scoring margin <= 15. Second query is scoring margin >= 16.

So what are we saying in reference to Cad Bane, and markus' claim, that those 15 garbage time shot attempts, which would add a whooping 0,53333 attempt per game, are somehow padding his stat? I know you didn't say that, but they're saying exactly that.

What i read from those stats, is that we barely played any garbage time this year. 15 shot attempts in 30 games, from a high usage guy like Roddy? I think it's clear as day his stats aren't affected by that. I don't think i ever claimed Roddy didn't play more garbage time minutes than West. What i claimed, is that we barely played any garbage time, as most our games were either close, or in striking distance, we were either down, or up 4-6-8-10 in the fourth. We obviously barely blew any team out this year, because of our offense. So again, how is their original claim is right? It's not, especially if you factor in that Roddy comes in against starters in both the first, and third quarter.

What it's essentially showing is that Roddy has taken at least one shot in five blowouts that Delonte didn't. As I mentioned, it's crude, but it does seem to show that Roddy is a lot more likely to play in a blowout situation than Delonte.

And that's just taking into account 4th quarters. There have certainly been games this season where the game was well out of hand one way or the other prior to the 4th.

This doesn't really "prove" anything, but it does at least seem to jive with the assertion that Roddy has benefited from garbage minutes. You may ultimately be correct that there's not enough minutes in the sample to matter, but maybe not. I'd be curious to know if Joshi has the data.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Stats this year are pretty dirty. I actually discount many of them this year. It is all about rest and health for me. The rest of it is pretty much garbage and little to be gleaned from it.

Yup. I also significantly discount the predictive value of this year's individual stats.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm not sure what's not to get. First query is scoring margin <= 15. Second query is scoring margin >= 16.

Yep, language barrier, sorry.

Originally Posted by jthig32

What it's essentially showing is that Roddy has taken at least one shot in five blowouts that Delonte didn't. As I mentioned, it's crude, but it does seem to show that Roddy is a lot more likely to play in a blowout situation than Delonte.

Well, we knew that already, didn't we? Obviously, i never said that's not the case. Carlisle's clearly prefers veteran players, unless there is a massive gap in production toward the young player. Unfortunately, that's not the case with Roddy.

Originally Posted by jthig32

And that's just taking into account 4th quarters. There have certainly been games this season where the game was well out of hand one way or the other prior to the 4th.

A handful of games... maybe. The first 2 (where Roddy barely played) and maybe a couple more after that, certainly not much. Our offense doesn't allow us to blow teams out, and our defense doesn't allow us to lose by much. (excluding the first 2 clusterf**k against Heat and Nuggets)

Originally Posted by jthig32

This doesn't really "prove" anything, but it does at least seem to jive with the assertion that Roddy has benefited from garbage minutes. You may ultimately be correct that there's not enough minutes in the sample to matter, but maybe not. I'd be curious to know if Joshi has the data.

I think it does prove something, that we barely played games where were any garbage time. The number of your sample size (assuming it's correct) shows exactly that, and makes it highly unlikely that we can talk about any possible benefit that Roddy could have had. 15 garbage time field goal attempt in 30 games? That's pretty self-explanatory, i don't know why we shouldn't accept the obvious assumption. There wasn't any significant garbage time this year.

[j0Shi]

The +/- 15 stats:

http://i43.tinypic.com/250m6te.png

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

The +/- 15 stats:

http://i43.tinypic.com/250m6te.png

I'll need your help with that, but man, our back court is terrible. Those are some sad numbers, and efficiency. I'll also have to spread some reputation before giving you again.

[j0Shi]

Terry's and Roddy's shooting stats are right around the league average for guards (42.6% and 35.6% on threes). West & Kidd are well behind, especially from long distance, but Kidd makes up for it in the Rebound & Assist categories. As expected, Roddy and West shoot the most free throws per field goal attempt (but not very high compared to the league), create most of their shots themselves and take their average shot closer to the basket than the Jasons.

The Dallas backcourt ranks 22nd in FG% (40.92), 20th in 3FG% (34.00) and dead last in free throws per field goal attempt (12.97).

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Terry's and Roddy's shooting stats are right around the league average for guards (42.6% and 35.6% on threes). West & Kidd are well behind, especially from long distance, but Kidd makes up for it in the Rebound & Assist categories. As expected, Roddy and West shoot the most free throws per field goal attempt (but not very high compared to the league), create most of their shots themselves and take their average shot closer to the basket than the Jasons.

The Dallas backcourt ranks 22nd in FG% (40.92), 20th in 3FG% (34.00) and dead last in free throws per field goal attempt (12.97).

Well, that doesn't surprise me one bit. Been saying it for awhile...our backcourt is a joke.

I can't think of a single playoff team that has a worse backcourt (especially offensively).

[j0Shi]

Yeah, but although we had JJB (Terry also played much better), our backcourt last year ranked 20+ as well. So it's not really a downgrade, especially because the defensive stats have improved as you would expect (-Barea +West). Mavs allow 38.7 Points from opposing guards on 38.7% shooting compared to 39.6 (41.6%) last year.

[j0Shi]

Originally Posted by dude1394

See above wrt jet, I just disagree.... The difference is that with rest they will probably elevate their play, they've shown it for years... Roddy might..but his problems are much more mental than physical to me. Harder to fix.

That said, I think Terry has "mental issues" as well this year. These whole comments throughout keep me thinking that he has a hard time dealing with his contract situation. He delivered a championship to the franchise and now they're basically telling him that he's not worth more than the minimum starting with the next year. That's tough and he already stated that he's affected by it.

[grndmstr_c]

Per ESPN, sounds like Delonte's still a ways away. Finger hasn't healed enough for them to take the pins out yet.

News is better on Wood and Wright, and it sounds like both of them will be good to go tomorrow.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

That said, I think Terry has "mental issues" as well this year. These whole comments throughout keep me thinking that he has a hard time dealing with his contract situation. He delivered a championship to the franchise and now they're basically telling him that he's not worth more than the minimum starting with the next year. That's tough and he already stated that he's affected by it.

From what the dirkster says they have to rein in jet a couple of times a year. I believe you are correct that he is affected by the contract but jet is a gamer and has enough intestinal fortitude and drive to get over it.

Roddy..I just don't know...the difference between players is so slim in the nba that unless you have that internal drive you just stay an ok player. If he doesn't get a lot tougher I just don't see him being a high contributing rotation player and wildly inconsistent. He won't fit on a team with championship aspirations.

[j0Shi]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

The +/- 15 stats:

http://i43.tinypic.com/250m6te.png

Outside this margin Roddy played 126.8 minutes, West 112.45.

Stats

It's a little shaky to define garbage time solely based on scoring margin. I'm currently working on a more accurate approach, defining garbage time as the point in the game when there are simply not enough possession left to make up for the deficit even if the leading team wouldn't score at all and the losing team would on every possession, but the results are not satisfying as of now. So in the meantime, this is all I can provide.

In example: With the game outside +/- 15 in the 4th, Roddy played 81.92 minutes (through 15 games), West only 43.32 (through 5 games)

Stats

But the overall assumption that Roddy "padded his stats" in garbage time seems inaccurate.

[j0Shi]

Okay, got it now. Mavs played a total of 78.77 minutes of garbage time this season. Roddy played the most of it followed by Jones.

Garbage Stats

Non-Garbage Stats

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Okay, got it now. Mavs played a total of 78.77 minutes of garbage time this season. Roddy played the most of it followed by Jones.

Garbage Stats

Non-Garbage Stats

Where's BudaPEST now?

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Okay, got it now. Mavs played a total of 78.77 minutes of garbage time this season. Roddy played the most of it followed by Jones.

Garbage Stats

Non-Garbage Stats

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure doesn't look to me from what you posted like Booby is padding his stats much with garbage-time production, even if he has played more in those situations than Delonte.