17-11: Mavs wing a big one against the Blazers - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-26-2008, 03:30 AM

Dirk is the best offensive player in the NBA next to Kobe. Lebron has more versatility scoring but can get cold. Dirk is just a heart breaker and unstoppable this season.

This team does go as far as Dirk takes it, and I'm pretty content with that at the moment.

Dirk is the man, and any of you who talked about trading him should be embarrassed.

dirno2000 · 12-26-2008, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Dirk is the best offensive player in the NBA next to Kobe. Lebron has more versatility scoring but can get cold. Dirk is just a heart breaker and unstoppable this season.

This team does go as far as Dirk takes it, and I'm pretty content with that at the moment.

Dirk is the man, and any of you who talked about trading him should be embarrassed.

I'd say that Lebron and Wade are both better offensive players than Kobe and Dirk. They're all pretty good though.

Five-ofan · 12-26-2008, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I'd say that Lebron and Wade are both better offensive players than Kobe and Dirk. They're all pretty good though.

kinda what i was thinking. In terms of pure offensive players id rank them lebron wade dirk kobe in order.

btw why is it still ok to call kobe the best player in the nba???? Honestly at this point how do you even start an argument that hes better than lebron other than "well ..... hes kobe"

dude1394 · 12-26-2008, 12:26 PM

I find it difficult to think that josh would freeze out a player on purpose...I would expect that it's a deficiency in his game ( at least I hope so).

I played with a guy (unfortunately he playce the point) who really only saw one side of the court. He never saw his left side(if I recall). But a guy could be wide stinkin' open and he'd go to the right side.. I talked to him a bunch about it...but he just couldn't seem to change. He never did.

I did see one tonight where dirk was open...but only about 5 feet away and josh still had his dribble. No point in giving it up then really and he put it across court to spread the D. I guess I haven't seen him freeze dirk out so much.

grndmstr_c · 12-26-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I did see one tonight where dirk was open...but only about 5 feet away and josh still had his dribble. No point in giving it up then really and he put it across court to spread the D. I guess I haven't seen him freeze dirk out so much.

Dude, if we're thinking of the same play, then I'm much less inclined to defend the logic of Josh's failure to get Dirk the ball. If Dirk is open (which he was) and you have a clear passing lane (which Josh did), you have to pass the ball to him. That should be rule #1 on this team. I don't think there's a single other player on the roster who would miss that opportunity.

dude1394 · 12-26-2008, 02:22 PM

If it was on the right side of the court, josh was about ftline extened and dirk was about 5 feet from him closer to the ft-line then I think it was the same play.

It seems like bad spacing to me..You give it to dirk 5 feet away and your guy could double him immediately. Now if you then took off for the basket...........but that would take some innate bball iq.

I can agree with your contention also..But that would seem to a passive play versus a potentially more aggressive one. It seems defendable.

ghazi · 12-26-2008, 03:49 AM

DHWS our beloved Dirk is great, but needs some help.

I like this team, and I think I'd love it if J-Ho was traded. I am obviously obligated to root for him while he's a Mav, but god DAMN the lack of basketball IQ, the lack of effort, the lack of a consistent jumper (I could SWEAR he used to have that last year)! I can't even believe this guy had a 47 point game as early as 1 year ago... his regression is somewhat staggering.

He's just unspectacular in so many ways... we used to think he wasn't good enough to be a #2 option, I don't even think he's good enough to be a #3 option at this point... too inconsistent, too unreliable, too apathetic.

Robillion · 12-26-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

DHWS our beloved Dirk is great, but needs some help.

I like this team, and I think I'd love it if J-Ho was traded. I am obviously obligated to root for him while he's a Mav, but god DAMN the lack of basketball IQ, the lack of effort, the lack of a consistent jumper (I could SWEAR he used to have that last year)! I can't even believe this guy had a 47 point game as early as 1 year ago... his regression is somewhat staggering.

He's just unspectacular in so many ways... we used to think he wasn't good enough to be a #2 option, I don't even think he's good enough to be a #3 option at this point... too inconsistent, too unreliable, too apathetic.

Didn't he have that game against Utah last year? ... Let's just hope he tries to redeem himself tonight and match that score (without shooting 23 of 100)

MaVs 41 BaLler · 12-26-2008, 03:55 AM

If we trade Howard for Kaman....this would be the softest team ever!
I say we trade Howard for a same type of player that is just smarter.
Howard has talent but no brain.

His value is dropping quickly.

I would trade him for Monta Ellis if he is available?

But seriously im just willing to trade Howard for someone that is willing to play and PASS.

nashtymavsfan13 · 12-26-2008, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaVs 41 BaLler

If we trade Howard for Kaman....this would be the softest team ever!
I say we trade Howard for a same type of player that is just smarter.
Howard has talent but no brain.

His value is dropping quickly.

I would trade him for Monta Ellis if he is available?

But seriously im just willing to trade Howard for someone that is willing to play and PASS.

You're kidding right? Ellis is pretty much the only guy the Warriors have. He's the guy they're building their whole team around and banking on to take them back to respectability. There's a reason they signed him to that huge deal, there's no way he gets traded.

Sportstudi · 12-26-2008, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaVs 41 BaLler

If we trade Howard for Kaman....this would be the softest team ever!
I say we trade Howard for a same type of player that is just smarter.
Howard has talent but no brain.

His value is dropping quickly.

I would trade him for Monta Ellis if he is available?

But seriously im just willing to trade Howard for someone that is willing to play and PASS.

Especially the latter...

ghazi · 12-26-2008, 03:57 AM

I usually equate "softness" with no rebounding, overreliance on jumpshots, and no defense... Kaman is the "anti softness" in that regard.

As if Howard is tough, physically OR mentally?

MaVs 41 BaLler · 12-26-2008, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

I usually equate "softness" with no rebounding, overreliance on jumpshots, and no defense... Kaman is the "anti softness" in that regard.

As if Howard is tough, physically OR mentally?

No he's just that crazy guy that would come at you if anyone messes with your teammate. But I can't say that because he only did that once. I would say that was Stackhouse who would stick up for this team.

But when David West "taps" Dirk no one comes out there to back him up?

mac222b · 12-26-2008, 04:08 AM

Kaman is not soft dude.

MaVs 41 BaLler · 12-26-2008, 04:09 AM

Wait I guess your right.....

I guess I over exaggerated the "soft" thing

grndmstr_c · 12-26-2008, 04:21 AM

I almost feel compelled to say something negative about Josh. And truth to tell I'm extremely irritated with him right now. But screw that, I'm not wasting any more time on that moron. This was a strong, gutsy win, and I'm damn proud of how the Mavs pulled it out. A very nice Christmas present from the guys tonight. Now go kick Utah's ass tomorrow.

nowhereman · 12-26-2008, 04:42 AM

Josh was actually pretty huge for us in the first Q.

Isn't he supposed to be having a kid.. like.. this week?

left texas · 12-26-2008, 07:56 AM

I think I am catching the drift of this thread.

alby · 12-26-2008, 10:03 AM

Right now, we would only get about 50 cents to 60 cents to the dollar if we traded Howard. You guys need to set your sights lower=]

with that being said, ANYTHING would improve our team if we move Josh F'ing Howard.

Underdog · 12-26-2008, 11:16 AM

Oh, snap!

Has anyone noticed that we're 6th place in the Western Conference, only 6.5 games behind the Mighty Lakers (and 1.5 games behind the 2nd-place Spurs)???

Not bad after a 2-7 start (we're 16-4 since then!)

Flacolaco · 12-26-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

(we're 16-4 since then!)

Yeah, it's easy to see then why everyone thinks we should make a bunch of trades and stuff...

horse900703 · 12-26-2008, 11:43 AM

It was a big win for us. i think we got the thanks JJB and Bass for the last 2mins~

darkwitzki · 12-26-2008, 01:57 PM

Barrea to Bass is like Stockton to Malone !

Popeye · 12-26-2008, 03:06 PM

I remember being frustrated by that play as well. Dirk could/would have caught and shot for a wide open FT jumper which he makes about 75% of the time. Stupid play and indefensible by Howard to not make that pass, but it's nothing new and it didn't surprise me.

I think waiting for Howard's trade value to go back up is a mistake. It's just as likely to go down with an injury or another "incident". I think there's teams in the east that would value his scoring ability.

BGMaverick9 · 12-26-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeye

I remember being frustrated by that play as well. Dirk could/would have caught and shot for a wide open FT jumper which he makes about 75% of the time. Stupid play and indefensible by Howard to not make that pass, but it's nothing new and it didn't surprise me.

I think waiting for Howard's trade value to go back up is a mistake. It's just as likely to go down with an injury or another "incident". I think there's teams in the east that would value his scoring ability.

I didn't watch the game (couldn't) so I won't comment on part 1. Part 2 I agree with 100% that was my concern during the summer. It's a risk either way, to wait or to make the move. I just figured he wasn't going to fully make the turn and be what we wanted him to be, so we might as well do it ASAP.

Josh could easily get some great/nice numbers on a team that is floundering and needs him to be the first option. I'm sure he wouldn't mind that at all at this rate.

LonghornDub · 12-26-2008, 03:15 PM

I've got a question--

Am I mistaken, or have I been hearing announcers repeatedly say that the Mavs haven't given up 100 points this year? I thought I heard this a few times last night.

The reason I ask is, if that is what they've been saying, it's just not true. We gave up 133 to the Spurs, 107 of which were in regulation.

Dirkadirkastan · 12-26-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I've got a question--

Am I mistaken, or have I been hearing announcers repeatedly say that the Mavs haven't given up 100 points this year? I thought I heard this a few times last night.

The reason I ask is, if that is what they've been saying, it's just not true. We gave up 133 to the Spurs, 107 of which were in regulation.

121 to the Nets was pretty embarrassing as well.

alby · 12-26-2008, 03:44 PM

Waiting for Josh Howard's value to go up is like waiting for the economy to recover 2 years ago. You're only kidding yourselves and denying reality. Cut bait already before it gets even worse.

Janett_Reno · 12-26-2008, 04:03 PM

Things i noticed in Portland game. We beat a very talented team last night. Dirk is simply amazing on offense and shooting the ball. So fun to watch him and see people trying to guard him. On the other hand, Dirk can really stink it up on defense. I know Dirk was in foul trouble but he can't let Blake run down the floor on him and make lay ups over him without even challening him. I think Blake could dunk on him, if Blake could dunk the ball. When Dirk has Dampier in, he let's Damp do defense and the dirty work and Dirk can free lance and now Dirk looks good. He gets rebounds, blocks, steals, etc. Dampier is very good at what he does and is a load under the goal on defense and rebounding. He can't play offense that much.

Barea, this guy will challenge Ming, Shaq or anyone. It doesn't matter and the crazy thing is he can score on about anyone in the nba. Like Harris alot of times at the goal. Don't ask me how he does it but he does and he won't stop. I know his shooting last night does not show it in the stats but like Harris and Parker, he takes off down the lane and now 3 guys are chasing after him. Now we have two wide open players because 2 or 3 are chasing after Barea. This is huge and so important for this team. Barea does this in half court, where Kidd can't. It now opens up Terry standing on the 3 line. How does Barea rebound like he does? This guy, if he started and played a full game for a season could probably have a stat sheet you would not believe, like 15 points or more per game, 7 ast, 5 rebounds, 2 steals and so on. It is not unlikely he can score 30 and more some nights.

I also want to brag on Kidd, as for a pg, this guy can really rebound. Our coach, i liked the fact he pulled a Don Nelson and made the other coach match him as our coach played 3 pg's at the same time all the 4th q. The other coach never matched to us and our 3 pg's killed Port the last q. They were like water bugs and they could not stay up with them and Kidd and Barea was killing Port rebounding. Then Terry was killing them with shots. Barea and Bass looked great on that pick and roll, over and over again. Oden at 7 feet tall plays like he is 5'10". While people thing he is the next Wilt Chamberlin and Kareem Jabaar comming down the line, i would trade him for a guy like Ming or Dwight Howard or even the big guy from Toronto. Oden killed Port last night. I know he is a rookie and he has time and size to get better but he is soft and i believe while his stock is high i would deal him for several good to great players and move him. Port needs a great big man in the middle and they would be tough.

Fernandez impressed me on Port. Roy always does and they have a very good team and i also know Oden has talent, just if he can ever unleash it. I liked Singleton's play because he has length and will go inside and do dirty work and he shows he tries and hustles. Bass looked good with Barea and had Oden looking bad. Wright did good with the lil time he played.

Dirk always impresses me on offense and even at times i see him play some defense but last night is one where he looked bad on defense and so great on offense. Terry impresses me also on offense and pretty much always does. Barea has got a big time spot on this team and we need him and what he does and it will make this team fun to watch with the pg's we have. Kidd is darn good on ast and rebounding as where Barea and Terry score. Kidd had a big time 3 in the heat of the game.

Diop looks terrible and completely lost. I have hope after last night and even without Howard as i feel we are on the phone taking offers for Josh Howard. He is so talented on both offense and defense that Dallas has to get very good in return and let's hope Howard doesn't try to get kicked off the team before he gets traded and his stock go down more. I have no probs with hard physical play and him getting techs but last night, he was just trying to get attention like Rasheed and looked like trying to make us lose. I have wished he would change and turn this around because of all his talent and us needing so badly a player like Scottie Pippen and a do it all guy that plays good defense but i see Josh want's out.

I thought we would finish 9th this year but watching us, i feel maybe we could be 6th to 9th now. I do give us some hope. I am not sure how long we will have Howard and even Diop, if anyone would take Diop.

Five-ofan · 12-26-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

Things i noticed in Portland game. We beat a very talented team last night. Dirk is simply amazing on offense and shooting the ball. So fun to watch him and see people trying to guard him. On the other hand, Dirk can really stink it up on defense. I know Dirk was in foul trouble but he can't let Blake run down the floor on him and make lay ups over him without even challening him. I think Blake could dunk on him, if Blake could dunk the ball. When Dirk has Dampier in, he let's Damp do defense and the dirty work and Dirk can free lance and now Dirk looks good. He gets rebounds, blocks, steals, etc. Dampier is very good at what he does and is a load under the goal on defense and rebounding. He can't play offense that much.

Barea, this guy will challenge Ming, Shaq or anyone. It doesn't matter and the crazy thing is he can score on about anyone in the nba. Like Harris alot of times at the goal. Don't ask me how he does it but he does and he won't stop. I know his shooting last night does not show it in the stats but like Harris and Parker, he takes off down the lane and now 3 guys are chasing after him. Now we have two wide open players because 2 or 3 are chasing after Barea. This is huge and so important for this team. Barea does this in half court, where Kidd can't. It now opens up Terry standing on the 3 line. How does Barea rebound like he does? This guy, if he started and played a full game for a season could probably have a stat sheet you would not believe, like 15 points or more per game, 7 ast, 5 rebounds, 2 steals and so on. It is not unlikely he can score 30 and more some nights.

I also want to brag on Kidd, as for a pg, this guy can really rebound. Our coach, i liked the fact he pulled a Don Nelson and made the other coach match him as our coach played 3 pg's at the same time all the 4th q. The other coach never matched to us and our 3 pg's killed Port the last q. They were like water bugs and they could not stay up with them and Kidd and Barea was killing Port rebounding. Then Terry was killing them with shots. Barea and Bass looked great on that pick and roll, over and over again. Oden at 7 feet tall plays like he is 5'10". While people thing he is the next Wilt Chamberlin and Kareem Jabaar comming down the line, i would trade him for a guy like Ming or Dwight Howard or even the big guy from Toronto. Oden killed Port last night. I know he is a rookie and he has time and size to get better but he is soft and i believe while his stock is high i would deal him for several good to great players and move him. Port needs a great big man in the middle and they would be tough.

Fernandez impressed me on Port. Roy always does and they have a very good team and i also know Oden has talent, just if he can ever unleash it. I liked Singleton's play because he has length and will go inside and do dirty work and he shows he tries and hustles. Bass looked good with Barea and had Oden looking bad. Wright did good with the lil time he played.

Dirk always impresses me on offense and even at times i see him play some defense but last night is one where he looked bad on defense and so great on offense. Terry impresses me also on offense and pretty much always does. Barea has got a big time spot on this team and we need him and what he does and it will make this team fun to watch with the pg's we have. Kidd is darn good on ast and rebounding as where Barea and Terry score. Kidd had a big time 3 in the heat of the game.

Diop looks terrible and completely lost. I have hope after last night and even without Howard as i feel we are on the phone taking offers for Josh Howard. He is so talented on both offense and defense that Dallas has to get very good in return and let's hope Howard doesn't try to get kicked off the team before he gets traded and his stock go down more. I have no probs with hard physical play and him getting techs but last night, he was just trying to get attention like Rasheed and looked like trying to make us lose. I have wished he would change and turn this around because of all his talent and us needing so badly a player like Scottie Pippen and a do it all guy that plays good defense but i see Josh want's out.

I thought we would finish 9th this year but watching us, i feel maybe we could be 6th to 9th now. I do give us some hope. I am not sure how long we will have Howard and even Diop, if anyone would take Diop.

actually dirk was by far the best defensive player in the game in the first half. he was so scared to get a foul in the second half he played like crap(he couldnt risk getting a fifth with josh ejected) but he COMPLETELY shut down aldridge in the first half. His off the ball D on aldridge and on the ball d the few times they actually got it to aldridge in the first half were as good as it gets which is why the he didnt really impact the game crap from chuck and kenny at the half was embarrasingly bad. Dominating on offense and holding a 17 point a game player without a shot in a half is about as impactful a game as youre gonna have. Speaking of which, the problem with chucks analysis is he seems to think defense and rebounding are one and the same because he was a great rebounder. They arent. You can have an amazing defensive game(or half) without really rebounding like dirk did last night.

fluid.forty.one · 12-26-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

actually dirk was by far the best defensive player in the game in the first half. he was so scared to get a foul in the second half he played like crap(he couldnt risk getting a fifth with josh ejected) but he COMPLETELY shut down aldridge in the first half. His off the ball D on aldridge and on the ball d the few times they actually got it to aldridge in the first half were as good as it gets which is why the he didnt really impact the game crap from chuck and kenny at the half was embarrasingly bad. Dominating on offense and holding a 17 point a game player without a shot in a half is about as impactful a game as youre gonna have. Speaking of which, the problem with chucks analysis is he seems to think defense and rebounding are one and the same because he was a great rebounder. They arent. You can have an amazing defensive game(or half) without really rebounding like dirk did last night.

I was a little more than pissed at chuck for finding away to bash Dirk after a 24 point half.

BGMaverick9 · 12-26-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I was a little more than pissed at chuck for finding away to bash Dirk after a 24 point half.

That's his shtick with Dirk...always.
He'll always see he doesn't leave his mark or imprint on the game...no matter what he does in the game. Get used to it.

alby · 12-26-2008, 04:18 PM

our 16-4 record is more reason to trade Howard. lol

Bayliss · 12-26-2008, 07:19 PM

The Mav players need to have a sit down with Josh, and literally say: you are either with us or against us. And if he doesn't choose the former then the players need to shun him from the team.

And I think Dirk/Terry/Kidd weild enough power to convey that message to Josh. He is a selfish SOB and it kills the team.

basketballgirl25 · 12-26-2008, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

The Mav players need to have a sit down with Josh, and literally say: you are either with us or against us. And if he doesn't choose the former then the players need to shun him from the team.

And I think Dirk/Terry/Kidd weild enough power to convey that message to Josh. He is a selfish SOB and it kills the team.

I don't care if I get flamed for this but if the players are going to shun, him I think those said players are messed up, and don't get much respect from me. Now Dirk right now reminds me of Reggie Miller who I respect a lot because he was a great player and never recieved a ring. Now I don't think Dirk will shun Josh, but Kidd he would and would prob throw Dirk under the bus as well

Robillion · 12-26-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basketballgirl25

I don't care if I get flamed for this but if the players are going to shun, him I think those said players are messed up, and don't get much respect from me. Now Dirk right now reminds me of Reggie Miller who I respect a lot because he was a great player and never recieved a ring. Now I don't think Dirk will shun Josh, but Kidd he would and would prob throw Dirk under the bus as well

You make very little sense. I do not mean to flame.... I just am glad that I was away from the board for the majority of your time here. So far.

The team definitely needs to have some type of intervention with Howard. It is within his head... he has the talent. Something or someone needs to just slap him and wake him up. If that could be done socially then so be it.

Dirkadirkastan · 12-26-2008, 08:11 PM

Josh did try to pass to Damp in the paint once last night, but it ended in a pitiful turnover.

I still maintain that part of his selfishness is derived from his complete inability to pass, even when he wants to.

alby · 12-27-2008, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Josh did try to pass to Damp in the paint once last night, but it ended in a pitiful turnover.

I still maintain that part of his selfishness is derived from his complete inability to pass, even when he wants to.

I think it is his inability to process mentally.

ty · 12-27-2008, 02:08 AM

Yesterday...

...all my troubles seemed so far away.