14-7: Mavs cant crash the boards anymore - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

tgfan · 12-06-2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

Speaking of Marion, he looks horrid. He's played good defense but he's absolutely dreadful offensively, and he can't grab rebounds this year. I'm guessing lost athleticism and injuries have really hampered him in that area. From what we've seen this season, this version of the Matrix is a pretty average basketball player.

Yes, he just doesn't look the same at all. I hope it is because of the ankle and reduced conditioning, and that both will come around shortly.

tgfan · 12-06-2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

16-7 offensive/ 2nd chance points

Coaching problem. The Mavs don't seem to find opponent players and block out. You can see it coming a mile away vs these long, athletic teams. They come out of nowhere and put the ball back in while Dirk stands around. I'm not a Dirk basher, he is a superstar on offense, but that is his weak point.

We need to make these guys come over our backs to get all these offensive rebounds and put backs.

Bayliss · 12-06-2009, 11:08 AM

Some of that is because the Mavs were playing zone. And part of it were block shots. When you block 14 shots... several of those are going to go back to the offensive player.

jthig32 · 12-06-2009, 11:14 AM

I, personally, was pretty darn pleased with the effort last night. They made the Hawks for for everything they got offensively. They blocked a ton of shot. I really thought the Hawks were going to have their way offensively with our injuries.

Let's be honest: The Hawks are a good team and a tough match up. Wining this game with our current roster would have been an upset. I'm happy with how the team performed. Can't way for Howard and Ross to come back healthy.

StackAttack · 12-06-2009, 11:16 AM

I just want Howard back so we can sit Marion for a while and let him recover. Seriously, a healthy Marion is more valuable to us than a healthy Josh.

CadBane · 12-06-2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgfan

Coaching problem. The Mavs don't seem to find opponent players and block out. You can see it coming a mile away vs these long, athletic teams. They come out of nowhere and put the ball back in while Dirk stands around. I'm not a Dirk basher, he is a superstar on offense, but that is his weak point.

We need to make these guys come over our backs to get all these offensive rebounds and put backs.

Dirk is the absolute last guy you need to be bitching about as far as defensive rebounding is concerned.

Dirkgreatness · 12-06-2009, 01:02 PM

I didn't watch the game, but, was JJ Barea really guarding Joe Johnson at one point?????

CadBane · 12-06-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I, personally, was pretty darn pleased with the effort last night. They made the Hawks for for everything they got offensively. They blocked a ton of shot. I really thought the Hawks were going to have their way offensively with our injuries.

Let's be honest: The Hawks are a good team and a tough match up. Wining this game with our current roster would have been an upset. I'm happy with how the team performed. Can't way for Howard and Ross to come back healthy.

Oh please. Our "injuries"? You mean Ross? The 12th guy? Or Howard, when is he not injured? I'm tired of people using the "no Howard" as a crutch. The man is always injured and this team has learned to play without him.

tcat075 · 12-06-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Oh please. Our "injuries"? You mean Ross? The 12th guy? Or Howard, when is he not injured? I'm tired of people using the "no Howard" as a crutch. The man is always injured and this team has learned to play without him.

"Our injuries" means two of our best wing defenders and a third wing defender who is hobbled and playing through pain. When you allow 80 points under those circumstances, you have every right to be pleased with the defensive effort (season high 14 blocks, as well, 4 a piece from Dirk and Damp). Offense was unbelievably awful, but the defense was above my expectations.

badfish22 · 12-06-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkgreatness

I didn't watch the game, but, was JJ Barea really guarding Joe Johnson at one point?????

Just in the zone coverages he was. Can't really call it "gaurding" though. He just got pushed away.
Is JJ always trying to draw a charge or is he just getting pushed around that badly?
Its funny that we only play the zone when JJ is in the game. Does Carlisle really change our whole defense just so his buddy can play?

And lol at Carlisle being "forced" to start Terry because they were getting away with starting Roddy. I guess when he scores our first 9 points or shuts down the opposing guard we "got away" with starting him

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...T.4034316.html

CadBane · 12-06-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

"Our injuries" means two of our best wing defenders and a third wing defender who is hobbled and playing through pain. When you allow 80 points under those circumstances, you have every right to be pleased with the defensive effort (season high 14 blocks, as well, 4 a piece from Dirk and Damp). Offense was unbelievably awful, but the defense was above my expectations.

I didn't say anything about not being pleased with the defense. I was pleased with it. I'm not sure what your point is.

tcat075 · 12-06-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

I didn't say anything about not being pleased with the defense. I was pleased with it. I'm not sure what your point is.

My point is that our defense was good in spite of the injuries. You are acting like the injuries are just an excuse to justify our poor play. I think the injuries are a big part of the reason that we are playing poorly. Remember, despite our stout defense Joe Johnson still went off for 31 points on over 50% shooting. Part of the reason why is because the only player who can effectively guard him is Marion, who has only an ankle and a half right now, and both our wing defenders are injured. Those injuries are significant. That's all I'm saying.

tgfan · 12-06-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Dirk is the absolute last guy you need to be bitching about as far as defensive rebounding is concerned.

My issue is not the rebounding. I know Dirk gets a ton. It's getting out hustled for caroms off the rim, which allows so many easy buckets for opponents that is frustrating. If we were disciplined about putting a body on these guys, we could cut out some of those easy baskets. I am talking in general, not only about last night's game.

tgfan · 12-06-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Just in the zone coverages he was. Can't really call it "gaurding" though. He just got pushed away.
Is JJ always trying to draw a charge or is he just getting pushed around that badly?
Its funny that we only play the zone when JJ is in the game. Does Carlisle really change our whole defense just so his buddy can play?

And lol at Carlisle being "forced" to start Terry because they were getting away with starting Roddy. I guess when he scores our first 9 points or shuts down the opposing guard we "got away" with starting him

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...T.4034316.html

Yeah, it seems to me it was when we started starting Roddy that we started jumping out ahead of other teams, rather than falling behind right away and having to scramble back.

Bayliss · 12-06-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

My issue is not the rebounding. I know Dirk gets a ton. It's getting out hustled for caroms off the rim, which allows so many easy buckets for opponents that is frustrating. If we were disciplined about putting a body on these guys, we could cut out some of those easy baskets. I am talking in general, not only about last night's game.

Part of that problem is Dirk is not a great leaper. And he isn't quick off the floor. So jumping jack type guys like Smith give him trouble. Those jumping jack type of guys can literally tip the ball once or twice before Dirk can secure it.

(Some of it is effort, I agree.)

jthig32 · 12-06-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Oh please. Our "injuries"? You mean Ross? The 12th guy? Or Howard, when is he not injured? I'm tired of people using the "no Howard" as a crutch. The man is always injured and this team has learned to play without him.

This team is not an elite team without Josh Howard. This team, without Josh Howard, is not as good as the Atlanta Hawks.

So if you want to act like Josh isn't even on the roster, fine. But it doesn't change the fact that losing to the Hawks without Josh is hardly a bad loss.

kg_veteran · 12-06-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I, personally, was pretty darn pleased with the effort last night. They made the Hawks for for everything they got offensively. They blocked a ton of shot. I really thought the Hawks were going to have their way offensively with our injuries.

Let's be honest: The Hawks are a good team and a tough match up. Wining this game with our current roster would have been an upset. I'm happy with how the team performed. Can't way for Howard and Ross to come back healthy.

Weren't the Mavs favored?

Usually Lurkin · 12-06-2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

In theory, when everyone is healthy, Josh won't be in a position to disappoint. But screw theories. We've lost 2 straight on quite pitiful performances by the Mavs. I think J-Ho would help us. I want him back.

In theory, if JJ were 6 inches taller we'd have the Puerto Rican Dwyane Wade in our back court. In reality, we've lost 2 straight in part because we've been hoping J-Ho would be our starting 2 rather than trading him back when more people thought he was good. If he comes back all rosy and playing great, we should trade him before he does this again to us.

EricaLubarsky · 12-06-2009, 07:30 PM

We just flat out had a poor night on Friday against a bad team and had a frustrating loss. There are nights when shots arent falling but Friday night was evidence that good teams can lose when you combine a poor shooting night with a lack of effort/fundamentals. Saturday we faced a very good team who we match up with very poorly. We were disheartened, we were tired and our shots didnt fall. I still think we are at least on par with the Hawks if not favored significantly, but we had multiple strikes against us and I think we competed fairly well considering that no one could score other than Dirk (and even he had a subpar night). The Hawks have a lot of length, agility, speed and Smith provides a lot of athletic/power up front which is a nightmare with Marion hobbling. He's too quick/agile for Damp and too powerful for Dirk.

tcat075 · 12-06-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

In theory, if JJ were 6 inches taller we'd have the Puerto Rican Dwyane Wade in our back court. In reality, we've lost 2 straight in part because we've been hoping J-Ho would be our starting 2 rather than trading him back when more people thought he was good. If he comes back all rosy and playing great, we should trade him before he does this again to us.

Does what to us? Is he purposely staying out injured because he just wants money?

In reality, we've lost two straight because opposing wing players have lit us up and because we can't score. Josh is a wing defender and can score.

jthig32 · 12-06-2009, 07:46 PM

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Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Weren't the Mavs favored?

No idea. I certainly wouldn't have put money on them to win.

Dirkadirkastan · 12-06-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

In reality, we've lost two straight because opposing wing players have lit us up and because we can't score. Josh is a wing defender and can score.

So what you're saying is we shouldn't trade Josh because then he'd light us up?

EricaLubarsky · 12-06-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

In theory, if JJ were 6 inches taller we'd have the Puerto Rican Dwyane Wade in our back court. In reality, we've lost 2 straight in part because we've been hoping J-Ho would be our starting 2 rather than trading him back when more people thought he was good. If he comes back all rosy and playing great, we should trade him before he does this again to us.

If JJ were 6 inches taller he'd be 2 inches taller than Wade and would have none of the pictures Wade uses to blackmail refs.

Murphy3 · 12-06-2009, 08:23 PM

gotta have more scoring options.. if you don't, too much gets laid at the feet of one man entirely too often. That is the Mavs biggest issue right now.

kg_veteran · 12-06-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

No idea. I certainly wouldn't have put money on them to win.

The Mavs were 5.5 point favorites. I just pointed that out because you said that it would have been an upset had they won. Technically, that's not true.

Usually Lurkin · 12-06-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Does what to us?

Flakes

Quote:

Is he purposely staying out injured because he just wants money?

who knows. The result would be the same.

Quote:

In reality, we've lost two straight because opposing wing players have lit us up and because we can't score. Josh is a wing defender and can score.

Well, that's what he's getting paid for, anyway. It's not working out well for the Mavs.

Usually Lurkin · 12-06-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

If JJ were 6 inches taller he'd be 2 inches taller than Wade and would have none of the pictures Wade uses to blackmail refs.

I was assuming he would no longer wear the lifts.

tcat075 · 12-06-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Flakes

who knows. The result would be the same.

Well, that's what he's getting paid for, anyway. It's not working out well for the Mavs.

Would love to know what other options we have here. Trade Josh? And get what, another Matt Carroll. Make him come back, despite his injury, and have him just a ineffective as Marion is right now? Please, no. I'm going to repeat myself: The past two games, we're getting killed by opposing wings, and we can't score. Josh can defend those wings, and he can help us score. Why the effing hell wouldn't you want Josh back? He's a knucklehead, but so are hundred other professional athletes who are still producing in the role given to them by their team. Right now, we have no one who is filling that role that usually Josh. We have some people trying, and due to size and (some would argue) suckiness (Barea), or because of their injury (Marion), or because of our coach's PMS mood swings (Roddy), those options aren't working.

tcat075 · 12-06-2009, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

So what you're saying is we shouldn't trade Josh because then he'd light us up?

Not exactly...but good outside the box thinking.

EricaLubarsky · 12-06-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

gotta have more scoring options.. if you don't, too much gets laid at the feet of one man entirely too often. That is the Mavs biggest issue right now.

I was wondering why we didn't go to more two-man game with Dirk and Terry which always seems to get one if not both of them hot. I wonder if Carlisle is just determined to get a 5 man offense because of Kidd. I know even with Terry/Dirk being hot we'd still need at least 1 more consistent scorer. Kidd can score but is as inconsistent as he is smart when it comes to putting up points. Gooden and Thomas can occasionally put up some numbers but arent guys that will average 15ppg. Damp's and Marion have both been impressive so far with their post moces and ability to read the slash but Damp really cant be relied upon and Marion's game really depends on him being healthy and also having ball movement and scorers around him so there will be seams in the defense for him to find. We need more points and riding Dirk for 82 games just wont cut it with each player having a peak night and then shooting 20% the next 3-4 games.

CadBane · 12-06-2009, 09:45 PM

I'm really confused why people are talking about the Mavs having issues with Josh Smith. Smith didn't do sh** last night. It was Joe Johnson that lit us up. Athletic scoring SG, same sh**, different day.

tcat075 · 12-06-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

I'm really confused why people are talking about the Mavs having issues with Josh Smith. Smith didn't do sh** last night. It was Joe Johnson that lit us up. Athletic scoring SG, same sh**, different day.

Have people been talking about Smith? I know I've been talking about Joe Johnson and how he lit us up.

Murphy3 · 12-06-2009, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I was wondering why we didn't go to more two-man game with Dirk and Terry which always seems to get one if not both of them hot. I wonder if Carlisle is just determined to get a 5 man offense because of Kidd. I know even with Terry/Dirk being hot we'd still need at least 1 more consistent scorer. Kidd can score but is as inconsistent as he is smart when it comes to putting up points. Gooden and Thomas can occasionally put up some numbers but arent guys that will average 15ppg. Damp's and Marion have both been impressive so far with their post moces and ability to read the slash but Damp really cant be relied upon and Marion's game really depends on him being healthy and also having ball movement and scorers around him so there will be seams in the defense for him to find. We need more points and riding Dirk for 82 games just wont cut it with each player having a peak night and then shooting 20% the next 3-4 games.

Just need a legit #2 guy. I think we've been through the weaknesses of many of the options time and time again. As for why they didn't go with more of the JET and Dirk two man game. I don't know. I don't know if it was because of Jet's struggles or what. But yeah, you obviously cannot expect to ride Dirk this hard the entire season. I would say that someone needs to step up, but we pretty much know that the guys are what they are at this point of their career. I suppose JET could get on an extreme hot streak, but the remedy for this team offensively is a healthy Howard. I know that sounds overly simplistic..but that is the answer. This team will get absolutely nowhere until that guy gets healthy. If he cannot get healthy, there is a pretty good shot that this team is one and done..and very little chance of advancing out of round two.. unless Dirk is simply the best player on the planet night in and night out. That is a difficult task for anyone.

Bayliss · 12-06-2009, 10:12 PM

Well, if Dirk doesn't come up with a Herculean effort against Utah and Milwaukee, the Mavs are sitting at 12-9.... pretty much right where they were last year at that point.

Usually Lurkin · 12-06-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

. We have some people trying, and due to size and (some would argue) suckiness (Barea), or because of their injury (Marion), or because of our coach's PMS mood swings (Roddy), those options aren't working.

. . . and how's hat Josh Howard option working out?

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-06-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

gotta have more scoring options.. if you don't, too much gets laid at the feet of one man entirely too often. That is the Mavs biggest issue right now.

Which is why the Mavs need more minutes for Gooden then was given this game. Like it or not, the Mavs need his offense with Howard out.

tcat075 · 12-06-2009, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

. . . and how's hat Josh Howard option working out?

I asked you first. How is the 50% Marion/0 mpg Roddy/20mpg Barea working out?

Usually Lurkin · 12-06-2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

I asked you first. How is the 50% Marion/0 mpg Roddy/20mpg Barea working out?

better than Josh Howard's ankle.

tcat075 · 12-06-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

better than Josh Howard's ankle.

but if Josh Howard's ankle did finish healing, like is supposed to happen, then I don't think there's even a question that Josh is an upgrade.

Usually Lurkin · 12-06-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

but if Josh Howard's ankle did finish healing, like is supposed to happen, then I don't think there's even a question that Josh is an upgrade.

. . . until he's hurt again, or decides not to play hard in the 2nd halves, or calls a time-out at exactly the wrong time, or falls in love with his jumper. They need to use any impression of an upgrade to trade him.