14-7: Mavs cant crash the boards anymore - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

tcat075 · 12-06-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

. . . until he's hurt again, or decides not to play hard in the 2nd halves, or calls a time-out at exactly the wrong time, or falls in love with his jumper. They need to use any impression of an upgrade to trade him.

But they can't trade him because other teams think he'll just get hurt again, or decide not to play hard in the 2nd halves, or call a time-out at exactly the wrong time, or fall in love with his jumper. Even if that's not true, that's what people think. So you can't trade him unless you want another Matt Carroll. So why don't we wait for him to get back and just hope for the best?

Usually Lurkin · 12-07-2009, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

So why don't we wait for him to get back and just hope for the best?

we've been doing that. It hasn't worked.

Underdog · 12-07-2009, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

But they can't trade him because other teams think he'll just get hurt again, or decide not to play hard in the 2nd halves, or call a time-out at exactly the wrong time, or fall in love with his jumper. Even if that's not true, that's what people think. So you can't trade him unless you want another Matt Carroll. So why don't we wait for him to get back and just hope for the best?

Josh Howard still has value as an expiring contract...

tcat075 · 12-07-2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

we've been doing that. It hasn't worked.

Well, duh. Waiting for someone to return from in injury rarely works as well as actually playing with the guy when he's healthy. But as we've already discussed, all we can do is wait, hope he can get healthy, and play as hard as we possibly can while he's out because even without Josh this is still a good team (and we're doing a good job of that, we're on pace to win 4 more games than last year).

tcat075 · 12-07-2009, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Josh Howard still has value as an expiring contract...

If they can find a team that wants to trade a decent wing player for Josh Howard, then I'm all for it. I don't think its going to happen, but I've been wrong before. Many times before.

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, don't a majority of expiring contract/salary dump trades happen during the offseason?

nashtymavsfan13 · 12-07-2009, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

If they can find a team that wants to trade a decent wing player for Josh Howard, then I'm all for it. I don't think its going to happen, but I've been wrong before. Many times before.

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, don't a majority of expiring contract/salary dump trades happen during the offseason?

I doubt it's going to happen, I think Josh has more value to us than he does to any other team. If we trade him, it'll be a downgrade.

And that's not necessarily true, expiring contract/salary dump trades happen all the time at the midseason trade deadline.

jthig32 · 12-07-2009, 08:17 AM

Josh Howard has more trade value this season than he has in quite a while. Possibly ever. The Mavs are in a situation where they can wait and see if Josh comes back healthy soon. If he doesn't they can trade him before the deadline. If they don't trade him they can use their team option, keep him next year and he'll once again be playing for a contract and trade able as an expiring. This idea that the Mavs missed their chance to trade Josh while his value was highest is 100% incorrect.

And I still expect Josh to prove a lot of people wrong when he comes back (which should be very soon). It's pretty silly to call a guy injury prone when he has one injury that costs him time last season, and now his surgery this season has cost him some time. It's one injury.

Usually Lurkin · 12-07-2009, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Josh Howard has more trade value this season than he has in quite a while. Possibly ever. The Mavs are in a situation where they can wait and see if Josh comes back healthy soon. If he doesn't they can trade him before the deadline. If they don't trade him they can use their team option, keep him next year and he'll once again be playing for a contract and trade able as an expiring. This idea that the Mavs missed their chance to trade Josh while his value was highest is 100% incorrect.

And I still expect Josh to prove a lot of people wrong when he comes back (which should be very soon). It's pretty silly to call a guy injury prone when he has one injury that costs him time last season, and now his surgery this season has cost him some time. It's one injury.

Josh has more problems than injuries.

dude1394 · 12-07-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

He hit 3 of them. That's a nice 38% clip. If JET shot 38% from 3 at the end of the season, I would quite happy with him. Its better than he shot last year. Taking 8 threes wasn't the problem. If you want to blame JET, don't blame him for the quantity of his threes. Blame him for the quality, whether they were good shots. (you did mention that they were ill-advised; that's a legit complain. Taking 8 threes, that's not, because JET hit a decent percentage of them.

I disagree...the stats look right but the manner of play matters with jet. Jet has to be more aggressive to the paint to be an effective 2-guard when he's out there. I know he can hit spot up 3's but he can't hit them as well as jkiddo can for example!! so he's got to provide some drive and kick to a team that needs it badly.

dude1394 · 12-07-2009, 01:09 PM

Looking back at the popcornmachine site. Jet/Dirk look like they need a break. They really broke down in the fourth. I'm not sure what else RC is going to do but he has to give dirk more rest if he expects him to put the team on his back at the end of the game, he just has to.

And jet HAS to quit settling for 3pt shots in the fourth. Half of his six shots were 3s and he only got 2 ftas.

particleman · 12-07-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

. . . until he's hurt again, or decides not to play hard in the 2nd halves, or calls a time-out at exactly the wrong time, or falls in love with his jumper. They need to use any impression of an upgrade to trade him.

Who is being offered to the mavs that would be an upgrade and where do you get your inside info?!

Murphy3 · 12-07-2009, 02:55 PM

It's hard to rely too heavily on the vagina that is Josh Howard.

tcat075 · 12-07-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I disagree...the stats look right but the manner of play matters with jet. Jet has to be more aggressive to the paint to be an effective 2-guard when he's out there. I know he can hit spot up 3's but he can't hit them as well as jkiddo can for example!! so he's got to provide some drive and kick to a team that needs it badly.

JET can drive only when his jumper is falling. He was 1-6 on 2PT shots. In other words, his jumper wasn't falling. As a result, he got more separation from defenders, which makes it harder to drive. Statistically at least in that game, it was better for him to shoot a 3 ball than 2PT shot. Not saying that's always the case, but it this I think it was.

tcat075 · 12-07-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Josh has more problems than injuries.

Josh's problems are his injuries.

badfish22 · 12-07-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Josh's problems are his injuries.

What about when he falls in love with his jumper? What about when he disappears in the 4th?

tcat075 · 12-07-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

What about when he falls in love with his jumper? What about when he disappears in the 4th?

He has weaknesses. So does other players on our team. JET is a streaky shooter, and doesn't take it to the rack as much as he should. Kidd can't hit a layup to save his life and often passes out of the layups that he can make. Dampier has no offensive game unless he's wide open. Dirk is perfect, but Josh isn't even close to the player Dirk is, that's obvious.

The key here is that Josh is a 46% career shooter from the field and a 16 PPG scorer, and he can defend the wings well when healthy. If he could stay healthy, we could use that, no matter what he did in the 4th quarter. And when a guy is a 46% career shooter, the whole "falling in love with his jumper hting" is a little bit of an unfair criticism. There are some shots he should stop taking, yes, I agree, but all in all he shoots a high percentage when you total up all the shots he takes.

rebbit · 12-08-2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

He has weaknesses. So does other players on our team. JET is a streaky shooter, and doesn't take it to the rack as much as he should. Kidd can't hit a layup to save his life and often passes out of the layups that he can make. Dampier has no offensive game unless he's wide open. Dirk is perfect, but Josh isn't even close to the player Dirk is, that's obvious.

The key here is that Josh is a 46% career shooter from the field and a 16 PPG scorer, and he can defend the wings well when healthy. If he could stay healthy, we could use that, no matter what he did in the 4th quarter. And when a guy is a 46% career shooter, the whole "falling in love with his jumper hting" is a little bit of an unfair criticism. There are some shots he should stop taking, yes, I agree, but all in all he shoots a high percentage when you total up all the shots he takes.

Well said my friend. I couldn't agree more!

ReDirkulous Tyme · 12-08-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

What about when he falls in love with his jumper? What about when he disappears in the 4th?

one thing we have really been lacking, compared to last year, is 1st quarter scoring. Our 4th quarter scoring will go down without Josh solely because of the fact that Dirk has to carry the offensive load throughout the game, depending on the inconsistent contributions from the rest of the team. Josh is known to be a great 1st and 3rd quarter scoring. If nothing else, this should take some of the load off Dirk and allow him to carry the team, if need be, in the 4th quarter.

jamyoa · 12-10-2009, 07:57 PM

It's Rick's fault! Why in the hell does he keep putting Jason Terry in during crunchtime, when he knows all he's gonig to do is take jumpshots and miss most of the time. Terry has been here way to long to know that you have to drive it to the basket no matter what. Terry must be traded!

Underdog · 12-10-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamyoa

It's Rick's fault! Why in the hell does he keep putting Jason Terry in during crunchtime, when he knows all he's gonig to do is take jumpshots and miss most of the time. Terry has been here way to long to know that you have to drive it to the basket no matter what. Terry must be traded!

You should make a couple more threads about it...

tcat075 · 12-10-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamyoa

It's Rick's fault! Why in the hell does he keep putting Jason Terry in during crunchtime, when he knows all he's gonig to do is take jumpshots and miss most of the time. Terry has been here way to long to know that you have to drive it to the basket no matter what. Terry must be traded!

Can we trade you back to the Spurs forum?