Ron-To-Rox Reaction

[BGMaverick9]

...Through Dallas' Eyes

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=530

Maybe I’m being seduced by the Mavs’ aggressive track record. Maybe I’m being influenced by the TOT’s calm (before the storm?). Maybe I’m reading too much, or reading incorrectly, into the sights and sounds and vibes I get from team higher-ups.

Maybe you think I’m a homer, though I’m like Dirk (seen at right with Dubious Deutschlander Chris Kaman) in my passive-aggressive flip-off of your once-tired skepticism.

For the record: I do not believe the Mavs will “stand pat,’’ I do not believe they are “satisfied,’’ and I do not believe they “love our team’’ as it is presently constructed.

If you are keeping score at home, put me down for at least one major roster change before training camp. … and maybe one more before the February trade deadline.

Fish note: I’d planned on writing all those words BEFORE the breaking news that Ron Artest is headed to Houston in exchange for, according to sources, Bobby Jackson and some used Popsicle sticks. Frankly, I’m still trying to believe, still writing the words. … but I must be drunk or emotional or something, because I type while my fingers gently weep.

OK, Fish, gather yourself. …

The Triangle of Trust’s history strongly suggests that we stay in touch with Mavs HQ in the first couple of weeks of August. While this is a handy time for some organizations to send employees on well-deserved vacations, in Dallas this is the time to have signed Eddie Jones (Aug. 6, 2007), Devean George (Aug. 1, 2006), Doug Christie and DeSagana Diop (Aug. 19, 2005) and to have traded for Jason Terry (Aug. 4, 2004) and Erick Dampier (Aug. 24, 2004).

There will be a Dallas deal. Or two.

What will the deal (or deals) be?

Well, one of them apparently won’t be for Ron Artest. And your skepticism seems less tired.

The Rockets just elevated themselves in the West Arms Race with the planned addition of Artest to a lineup that already stars Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady. That Big Three dwarfs Boston’s. And yes, it dwarfs Dallas’, too. More frustrating, Houston is, it seems, acquiring the All-Star stopper for Bobby Jackson, a No. 1 pick, maybe this year’s first-rounder Donte Green and cash.

Used Popsicle sticks.

(The deal can’t be official until August 14, and as I write this, it could conceivably still break down. But Jackson, for one, is already acknowledging that it’s on.)

Still, something is brewing in Dallas – something besides us being pissed that Houston acquired a guy we wanted, that is. In fact (Fish Positive-Spin AlertJ) allowing Artest to go on down the highway in this manner might suggest there is a more desirable targeted player.

Again, we’re talking instincts and interpretations here. … sights and sounds and vibes. But my educated guesses right now focus mostly on eliminating rumors – in other words, deals that are UNLIKELY to happen.

That unlikelihood starts with giving up on Josh Howard.

Mavs people are saying the same things to me behind the scenes that they’re saying to you in front of the microphones and notepads: They are convinced that J-Ho is “a good kid’’ who experienced a difficult year emotionally (deaths of people close to him) and who at the end of the season spun out of control. And now they believe he’s rediscovered his axis.

“We’re willing to roll the dice on Josh,’’ says one insider. “We think he can be the player he was two seasons ago.’’

If Dallas is correct in that evaluation – if Howard, 28, follows the lead of new coach Rick Carlisle and strips his game back down to where it was, to where it belongs, when he was a fireball defender and an intense slasher who savored his sidekick role in an All-Star campaign – management here will deserve credit for its loyalty, its character analysis and its talent judgment. If Dallas is right, they will employ a “third-best-player-on-the-team’’ guy capable of averaging 19/7/2 without any of the roller-coastering that marked 2007-08.

And if Dallas is wrong? Josh, fearing shooting opportunities will dry up late, will continue to try to score early. Josh, continuing to ignore the direction of his superiors, will rely on his jumper (and then later explain, “You can’t control what the ball do. It’s craaazy, man.’’) If Dallas is wrong about him, Josh Howard will deserve to be lit up. (Pun intended.)

And so will his bosses.

If the Mavs are wrong here, they deserve to have the names Luol Deng, Josh Smith, J.R. Smith and, most notably, Ron Artest, thrown in their faces. They will have “rolled the dice’’ on J-Ho and thus passed on doing so with any of the above.

The published suggestions that Dallas is a serious bidder for Atlanta’s Smith smell bogus. Nor is there any legit J.R.-from-Denver-to-Dallas buzz. I got nothin’ on Jason Richardson or Boris Diaw. (Though again, Artest slipping away in such an unchallenged manner adds some possible intrigue to these notions.) As for Deng, I was told directly, “Luol Deng isn’t coming here.’’ The Mavs have investigated those names, and dozens more, and simply haven’t yet found a way to make such swaps. … without forfeiting Howard.

Now, Deng, Richardson, Diaw, Smith and Smith are talents comparable to Howard. The Mavs can easily justify dangling appetizers such as Brandon Bass, Jerry Stackhouse and Eddie Jones in those talks.

Artest, however, is – er, was -- a different story.

Let me make this clear: I find no one in the organization unwilling to concede that Artest is superior to Josh Howard as a basketball talent. He has similar offensive skills, he brings contagious intensity, and he, in the words of one NBA scouting friend of DB.com, “is the rare shutdown defender. Josh can be a good defender. But Artest. … there just aren’t many like him.’’

Hell, just consider how Houston lines up next season: In clutch time, they can play McGrady at the point, Artest and another ace defender, Shane Battier, on the wings, with Yao getting help from toughs like Luis Scola and Carl Landry. Rafer Alston starts at the point, they just signed Brent Barry, Dikembe Mutombo returns as the backup center. And then way down there at the end of the bench there’s Luther Head and Joey Dorsey and Steve Francis.

That’s a pretty “wow’’ collection of talent.

What if Dallas to had caved to Sacramento and given up Howard for Artest, and then it DIDN’T work – that is, Artest didn’t fit in, Artest didn’t play nice in future contract negotiations, Artest didn’t avoid causing this Carlisle team to implode in the way he did with Carlisle’s last team back in Indiana – the Dallas Mavericks would have blown themselves up.

They would have an expiring Artest at low value, an expiring Kidd with no promises, and no Josh Howard. They would be on course for the “40-win treadmill,’’ one of owner Mark Cuban’s worst nightmares.

They would be “Dirk and the Merry Minimums,’’ to paraphrase Cuban’s long-ago dig at a (temporarily) struggling Lakers franchise.

That was reason enough to never include J-Ho.

However. …

If the Mavs could’ve acquired Artest (or can still acquire something akin to him) WITHOUT sacrificing Josh Howard, they have an armored roster that can survive implosions. And more important than that – and by the way, I find no one in the organization unwilling to concede this, either – the Dallas Mavericks will have a team fully capable of winning an NBA title.

Dirk and Diop starting upfront, Artest and Howard on the wings, Kidd running the show. That would’ve been s a starting five, backed by Jason Terry as a microwave and Dampier as the backup center, that rivals anyone’s.

Instead, it is Houston and Artest who now, on paper, rival anyone.

Take my word on this: The Mavs’ TOT had mulled over that lineup. A lot.

But the Howard part of the equation is moot. It didn’t take a Josh Howard. It didn’t even take a Larry, a Moe or a Curly, but just a Shemp Howard?

Interestingly, when I talked recently to one Mavs higher-up, he talked of Jet as “the sixth man,’’ as if Terry was already locked in to a backup job. How could that be? Isn’t it too early to concede the 2-guard job to the likes of All-Rocky-Mountain-Review-Teamer Gerald Green?

It is. So maybe there is some cross-your-fingers good news: The Mavs aren’t conceding that fifth starting job to a person presently on the roster.

GM Donnie Nelson is saying the right things about filling the 15-man roster by talking up summer-leaguers Green and James Singleton (who are among the 13 with contracts) and by noting that three more S-league guys, JuJuan Smith, Charles Rhodes and Keith McLeod (with a make-good contract) will likely be invited to camp.

The season is a long way off, and filling the south end of the bench with guys with “hunger’’ is important. But if anybody thinks hopes for JuJuan or Rhodes or Shan Foster or Reyshawn Terry represents Mavs management’s plan to remain elite, they simply haven’t been paying attention to the way the Mavs really end up working.

I think.

Troubling Fact 1: The Mavs, wringing their hands over Josh-for-Artest, did so needlessly. … and yet somehow their reported Bass/Stackhouse offer was needless as well. (Is the B-Jax package better than the Bass/Stack package? Does that speak to the value of a No. 1 pick, or the lack of perceived value of Jerry Stackhouse?)

Troubling Fact 2: Some in the Mavs TOT were pretty sure Sacto wouldn’t pull the trigger on an Artest deal until the February deadline was nearer. Boy, were they off – by, like, seven months. You will not get slapped down by me if you wonder whether all the TOT’s other duties this summer, from Chicago to China, created an information/action vacuum. I don’t want to think that; technology makes most such worries obsolete. But I won’t slap you down for wondering.

Troubling Fact 3: While my colleague David Lord accurately points out that the Rockets shouldn’t be too feared just yet because somehow, someway, the T-Mac/Yao Rockets always manage to underachieve, that’s not enough for me to hang my hat of dismissal on. Unless you believe the Rox have been voodoo’ed or something, the reason they are better now than they were then is because. … well, with Ron-Ron, they are BETTER now.

We have to admit that, in fairness. Because we would’ve said it had Artest joined the Mavs.

And the Mavs would’ve chest-puffed their way to the same proclamation.

Really, check out the Southwest Division: While it’s possible that the Mavs might be the fourth-best team in the NBA, or might be the fourth-best team in the West, most unbiased observers could claim that in a grouping with New Orleans, San Antonio and Houston, the Mavs might be the fourth-best team in their division.

Nevetheless, I disagree with any suggestion that Dallas “doesn’t have the guts to take risks.’’ In the course of four months, at great expense in every sense, they traded for Jason Kidd and fired Avery Johnson. How is that not “gutsy’’ and “risky’’?

Either way they turn now – and that includes deciding to rely on Howard – represents “guts’’ and “risk.’’

I believe one Mavs voice when he says they “are not done’’ reloading. I believe another insider who replies to my trade-idea questions by saying, “Hang in there.’’ As August approaches, I believe in what this management team usually tries to get done at this time of year.

I believe that the Mavs’ wish list includes some names that have not leaked out to the public AND one that had. I believe that second name was “Ron Artest,’’ and that the dream was to play him alongside the safety net of Josh Howard.

I still believe in their mindset, and that their mindset assumes a coming move.

Or two.

But as I type that, my fingers gently weep. … and I think my knuckles are on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

[Flacolaco]

So are we conceivably the 4th best team in the Southwest division?

Conceivably?

[u2sarajevo]

Please Nelson don't do a panic move and get swindled.

[BGMaverick9]

This was the one that made me say, huh?

Let me make this clear: I find no one in the organization unwilling to concede that Artest is superior to Josh Howard as a basketball talent.

No one? Not one single person, at all? This just reeks of over-valuing your own players.

[And1]

interesting for sure.

[alby]

I think it's time for me to stop being such a homer. The truth of the matter is that I've lost a lot of faith in our Mavericks. Dirkidd is the only reason why I'm still going to watch.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by alby

I think it's time for me to stop being such a homer. The truth of the matter is that I've lost a lot of faith in our Front Office.

I tweaked...sorry

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

So are we conceivably the 4th best team in the Southwest division?

Conceivably?

Why underestimate Memphis like that, Mr. Mod?

[bobatundi]

I'm just hoping the Mavs pull something off to put this team into contention. I'm moving to DC next year, it'd be really nice to have a Finals run in my last year in Dallas. Next season I'll have to watch the Wizards...well, at least they have one of my all-time favorite players (and former Maverick) Antawn Jamison. Hey, I'm a Tarheel, what do you want?

[me770706]

IF they're healthy..this is absolutely scary

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Why underestimate Memphis like that, Mr. Mod?

Who?

[sike]

Ron-To-Rox Reaction: "Pissed" seems to sum up my general sentiment nicely.

[Mavs Rule]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

...Through Dallas' Eyes

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=530


The Triangle of Trust’s history strongly suggests that we stay in touch with Mavs HQ in the first couple of weeks of August. While this is a handy time for some organizations to send employees on well-deserved vacations, in Dallas this is the time to have signed Eddie Jones (Aug. 6, 2007), Devean George (Aug. 1, 2006), Doug Christie and DeSagana Diop (Aug. 19, 2005) and to have traded for Jason Terry (Aug. 4, 2004) and Erick Dampier (Aug. 24, 2004).

If the mavs do a trade, it will likely be after the olympics, probably in Sept, since Donnie will be in China during the majority of August.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Mavs Rule

If the mavs do a trade, it will likely be after the olympics, probably in Sept, since Donnie will be in China during the majority of August.

I could see something being working out before...but you have a solid point.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Mavs Rule

If the mavs do a trade, it will likely be after the olympics, probably in Sept, since Donnie will be in China during the majority of August.

I know he is going over there for the Chinese team but...
What EXACTLY is he doing there? And why can't a phone still be an asset in China?

[Bayliss]

The big move the Mavs will make is signing Wang Zhi Zhi. Donnie is burning up the league getting deals.

[BGMaverick9]

It's also bothering me that 2/3s of our TOT have most of their attention set on things OTHER than the Mavericks.

[sike]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

It's also bothering me that 2/3s of our TOT have most of their attention set on things OTHER than the Mavericks.

Fish seems to think something is brewing...but at this point, it would have to be something big to move us out of the 4th slot.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

No one? Not one single person, at all? This just reeks of over-valuing your own players.

I think you missed a negative. It's no one unwilling concede that Artest is better. If anything, they undervalue their own players.

My reaction: deep breath and see. That's the same reaction I'd have had if he'd come to the Mavs. Only I'm hoping for a different result on the release of that breath. You know he's going to put in one good year before blowing everything up. It's a matter of Yao and McGrady staying healthy otherwise.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by sike

Fish seems to think something is brewing...but at this point, it would have to be something big to move us out of the 4th slot.

I'd like that, but are we just using history as an reasoning? Cuban is dealing with the Cubs and Donnie isn't even in the country.

[sike]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I'd like that, but are we just using history as an reasoning? Cuban is dealing with the Cubs and Donnie isn't even in the country.

I think its mostly a gut feeling at this point...(unless fish has something he can't let us in on yet)

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by sike

I think its mostly a gut feeling at this point...(unless fish has something he can't let us in on yet)

That leaves me underwhelmed, lol.
-----------
I believe one Mavs voice when he says they “are not done’’ reloading. I believe another insider who replies to my trade-idea questions by saying, “Hang in there.’’ As August approaches, I believe in what this management team usually tries to get done at this time of year.

I believe that the Mavs’ wish list includes some names that have not leaked out to the public AND one that had. I believe that second name was “Ron Artest,’’ and that the dream was to play him alongside the safety net of Josh Howard.
----------------
If they haven't leaked, are they legitimate guys who could get us out of the spot we're in?

[Evilmav2]

Screw all of this negative doom and gloom stuff... I'm still waiting for a Josh for Bargnani + parts, or a Josh + parts for a Green + Sene + whatever else, Okie package. He who bets against Little Don Jr. usually loses, and that fact has proven historically true in the past for both his peer GM's, and for passionate, but critical Mavs' fans who don't think much of the young wheeler-dealer.

The dumb Rockets might well be formidable next year- if they can stay healthy- but I certainly won't blame our Mavericks' braintrust if that unfortunate eventuality comes to pass. Our Mav's really didn't have the right kind of ammunition sitting in the armory to facilitate an easy Artest trade, and that's ultimately why they weren't able to pony up the requisite stakes to get up to the table and roll the dice on the 50-50, high-stakes Ron-Ron roller coaster ride that is about to come crashing and careening into H-town...

[sike]

I like that loyalty, evil....I've always loved Donnie as well, but something needs be done at this point.

[dangirwin]

The more things go along, the more I believe that we are working on a salary dump year.

d

[mqywaaah]

NEWS FLASH!!!!

[MavsX]

Originally Posted by Evilmav2

Screw all of this negative doom and gloom stuff... I'm still waiting for a Josh for Bargnani + parts, or a Josh + parts for a Green + Sene + whatever else, Okie package. He who bets against Little Don Jr. usually loses, and that fact has proven historically true in the past for both his peer GM's, and for passionate, but critical Mavs' fans who don't think much of the young wheeler-dealer.

The dumb Rockets might well be formidable next year- if they can stay healthy- but I certainly won't blame our Mavericks' braintrust if that unfortunate eventuality comes to pass. Our Mav's really didn't have the right kind of ammunition sitting in the armory to facilitate an easy Artest trade, and that's ultimately why they weren't able to pony up the requisite stakes to get up to the table and roll the dice on the 50-50, high-stakes Ron-Ron roller coaster ride that is about to come crashing and careening into H-town...

evilmav2 rules

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Evilmav2

Screw all of this negative doom and gloom stuff... I'm still waiting for a Josh for Bargnani + parts, or a Josh + parts for a Green + Sene + whatever else, Okie package. He who bets against Little Don Jr. usually loses, and that fact has proven historically true in the past for both his peer GM's, and for passionate, but critical Mavs' fans who don't think much of the young wheeler-dealer.

The dumb Rockets might well be formidable next year- if they can stay healthy- but I certainly won't blame our Mavericks' braintrust if that unfortunate eventuality comes to pass. Our Mav's really didn't have the right kind of ammunition sitting in the armory to facilitate an easy Artest trade, and that's ultimately why they weren't able to pony up the requisite stakes to get up to the table and roll the dice on the 50-50, high-stakes Ron-Ron roller coaster ride that is about to come crashing and careening into H-town...

Yeah we didn't have the right ammunition because we gave up two f-in first round picks in the Kidd trade.

I'm tired of the org. giving up so much in deals.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by sike

Ron-To-Rox Reaction: "Pissed" seems to sum up my general sentiment nicely.

I 2nd that sentiment!!!

I know this is a long shot, but MAYBE the Mavs still think they have a chance to get Kobe?? Other than that, I dont see why we did not get Ron Artest.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

The Tragicomedy continues....

Here is what it is like watching the Mavs front office work their magic these days....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVOeBUraVI4

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The Tragicomedy continues....

Here is what it is like watching the Mavs front office work their magic these days....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVOeBUraVI4

Personally, I find it to be more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9GIICkPzJk

*edit* That link was pointing to the wrong place before for some reason. Fixed now.

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

Please Nelson don't do a panic move and get swindled.

After sleeping on it, I think this is my main concern right now as well. Don't just make a deal for the sake of making a deal. It has to be the right deal, and is anyone sure that's even out there?

[birdsanctuary]

Wasn't Josh Howard the guy who two years ago called a time out in game 5 when we didn't have any?

F-josh.... are we waiting for his value to rise and then to trade him...

This team is crap on paper and should tank it for a lottery pick, oh forget that we traded all of our 1st rounders to New Jersey...

What the hell is this franchise doing?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

After sleeping on it, I think this is my main concern right now as well. Don't just make a deal for the sake of making a deal. It has to be the right deal, and is anyone sure that's even out there?

So what would your biggest fear be in making a deal just to make a deal? What asset would you be terrified of losing for the wrong price?

I guess in reality you don't want to lose Josh Howard for the wrong price, but I'm willing to gamble him, that's for sure.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by birdsanctuary

Wasn't Josh Howard the guy who two years ago called a time out in game 5 when we didn't have any?

F-josh.... are we waiting for his value to rise and then to trade him...

This team is crap on paper and should tank it for a lottery pick, oh forget that we traded all of our 1st rounders to New Jersey...

What the hell is this franchise doing?

I hate to say it, but Josh actually also missed 2 FT's with a minute left to go in OT of that Game 5, which would have potentially iced the game (and likely, the title) for us.

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by jthig32

So what would your biggest fear be in making a deal just to make a deal? What asset would you be terrified of losing for the wrong price?

I guess in reality you don't want to lose Josh Howard for the wrong price, but I'm willing to gamble him, that's for sure.

I still support Josh a little more than the average poster it would seem. I'm a little more worried about long term cap health, and picks (which we have practically none to trade anyway)

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Does anyone else get the feeling that Josh Howard doesn't really fit anymore?

I don't care about the pot stuff, and I'm sure he'll regain a lot of his game....but does his game fit with Kidd's style? Howard seems to work better creating for himself, not having someone else create for him.

That is the question management needs to ponder.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

So what would your biggest fear be in making a deal just to make a deal? What asset would you be terrified of losing for the wrong price?

I guess in reality you don't want to lose Josh Howard for the wrong price, but I'm willing to gamble him, that's for sure.

Agreed - we're not so desperate that we can't afford to be at least a LITTLE conservative...


Bass & Stack for Artest? Sure, I'd take that risk...

Josh for Artest? Sure, I'd take that risk too...

But Josh AND Artest gets you a ring, whereas Josh FOR Artest only gets you to the second round (and we're in "win-now" mode with Dirk & Kidd...)


I'm more pissed that Houston got him than the fact that we didn't...

[MaVs 41 BaLler]

I am so pissed off right now. God. Bobby Jackson?? and they wanted howard from us.

Why am I still a mavs fan??

Just still cant leave em..........

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I still support Josh a little more than the average poster it would seem. I'm a little more worried about long term cap health, and picks (which we have practically none to trade anyway)

Well yeah, the picks are part of my point. The only pick we can even trade is the 2012 pick (I think).

I'm not worried about cap health until we are in full scale rebuilding mode, meaning Dirk is either gone or no longer making max money.

So for me, we have two assets that I would be even remotely worried about losing in a bad trade, and that's Josh and Bass.