D-Fence! D-Fence! (thread for stats, trends, etc. for the rest of the season) - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

LonghornDub · 02-27-2011, 08:16 PM

This will be the thread for the remainder of the season to track our trends in team defense, which I believe will be one of the most, if not the most, important thing to watch going forward. Many of you (especially some of our int'l members) have been great resources for stats, and I hope you'll continue to post these here.

I'll get it started: fantastic second half against the Raptors (39 points) after a poor first-half in the paint and in transition.

I continue to be very concerned about our ability to impose our will defensively. We're down to 12th in the league in defensive efficiency, not including the Raptors game yet, and 8th in opponent PPG (which isn't awful, but we were in the top five for awhile).

As I stated in January sometime, I remain unconvinced that our defensive slippage from early in the year was solely the result of injuries to TC and Dirk. We've been healthy for awhile now and we're still not nearly at the level we saw early in the year. Does Caron make that much difference? Can we "turn it on" when it matters? Hypothesize away.

BGMaverick9 · 02-27-2011, 08:31 PM

Me likely the Roddy/Marion wing combination.

6th time Dallas has held an opponent under 40 in 2nd half.

LonghornDub · 02-27-2011, 08:32 PM

A few individual stats, none of which are necessarily particularly meaningful but all of which may be interesting:

-Individually, the player with the best defensive rating is Chandler (102). Beaubois is next at 103, but his sample size is obviously quite small

-The three players with the worst individual defensive ratings are Terry (108), Barea (108), and DSteve (109).

-If you like win-shares (I don't care for them much), Kidd has the highest defensive WS on the team at 2.8. Chandler is second at 2.6. Dirk and Matrix third at 2.2

dude1394 · 02-27-2011, 10:08 PM

Wow I didn't realize stevenson was such a crappy defender.

nowhereman · 02-27-2011, 10:28 PM

Gotta get the opponents FG% back in check. Since Dirk and Tyson both came back 19 games ago, we have allowed teams to shoot 46% over 19 games, and have only held opponents under 40% 3 times. By contrast, we have allowed teams to shoot over 50% 4 times.

dude1394 · 02-27-2011, 10:30 PM

I'm sure the mavs have been playing more man than before. I'm wondering if that is by design? In other words...we practiced the heck out of the zone, got it pretty much down and then went back to man because of 3pt shooting?

Just curious what the reasoning is behind less zone.

nowhereman · 02-27-2011, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I'm sure the mavs have been playing more man than before. I'm wondering if that is by design? In other words...we practiced the heck out of the zone, got it pretty much down and then went back to man because of 3pt shooting?

Just curious what the reasoning is behind less zone.

I had it correlating to Peja's arrival - maybe we're just worried about player familiarity with it? I would have imagined us using a little more to mask his deficiency

BGMaverick9 · 02-27-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I'm sure the mavs have been playing more man than before. I'm wondering if that is by design? In other words...we practiced the heck out of the zone, got it pretty much down and then went back to man because of 3pt shooting?

Just curious what the reasoning is behind less zone.

The usage of the zone D has been reduced over the past few weeks. I'm pretty sure it was before Peja arrived but I could be wrong. Match-ups can be a factor, but Carlisle knows that teams don't win using the zone as your primary form of defense. They've got to spend a majority of the time working on their man defense.

They can take the dust off of the zone with a few games left and I'm sure it'll be ok.

MavsFTR · 02-27-2011, 11:05 PM

I think the zone should be used as a surprise weapon in the playoffs. It'd be grea to throw teams off guard and get easy stops.

LonghornDub · 02-27-2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

I think the zone should be used as a surprise weapon in the playoffs. It'd be grea to throw teams off guard and get easy stops.

In my opinion, this is how it has to be used if we're to be successful.

CadBane · 02-27-2011, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

In my opinion, this is how it has to be used if we're to be successful.

Agree. The zone is a great curveball, change of pace gimmick to throw out there. Not something to rely upon, but when used properly it can be very effective.

deamon · 02-28-2011, 10:24 AM

Yup Caron makes that difference, and Chandler doesn't play like in November/December when he was one of contenders in Defensive player of the year category.
Just count where was our defense placed in January/February if we fell down from 2th to 12th place. We were one of the worst defense teams in last 2 months.

xrobx · 02-28-2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deamon

Yup Caron makes that difference, and Chandler doesn't play like in November/December when he was one of contenders in Defensive player of the year category.
Just count where was our defense placed in January/February if we fell down from 2th to 12th place. We were one of the worst defense teams in last 2 months.

as long as we keep winning 16 out of 17 games we can be the worst defensive team in the history on the nba for all i care

deamon · 02-28-2011, 10:34 AM

We can win like that in RS, but we should start preparing for PO, where defense in important.

Underdog · 02-28-2011, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deamon

We can win like that in RS, but we should start preparing for PO, where defense in important.

You sound like a broken record...

kg_veteran · 02-28-2011, 11:12 AM

Re: the zone, it has been a curveball all season long. Even at the height of its usage, the Mavs still played far more man-to-man than zone.

Re: the defensive slippage, the focus seems to have shifted to offensive production, and the rotations reflect that. I would like to see them be a top 5 defensive team, but I don't know if that's possible given the rotations they are throwing out there. That said, the Mavs have around a 10.0 efficiency differential in the last 17 games or so. I'll take that.

SMC0007 · 02-28-2011, 11:57 AM

-Caron

+ Peja

= Defensive slippage

bernardos70 · 02-28-2011, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deamon

We can win like that in RS, but we should start preparing for PO, where defense in important.

I thought you already determined we're doomed in the "PO," why are you still so worried?

LonghornDub · 02-28-2011, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Re: the zone, it has been a curveball all season long. Even at the height of its usage, the Mavs still played far more man-to-man than zone.

You think? It sure seems like, especially at the most meaningful points in the game, the Mavs were playing a lot more zone than man. I have nothing to back that up except my recollection though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deamon

We can win like that in RS, but we should start preparing for PO, where defense in important.

Defense is important all the time, broski.

Underdog · 02-28-2011, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

You think? It sure seems like, especially at the most meaningful points in the game, the Mavs were playing a lot more zone than man. I have nothing to back that up except my recollection though.

I remember hearing something a couple weeks ago about us leading the league in zone defense, but we only use it about 17% of the time...

That's a lot, but it definitely isn't being employed throughout a majority of the game (although we play a bit of a man-zone, so it's kinda hard to tell when we're using it...)

bernardos70 · 02-28-2011, 01:30 PM

I think LonghornDub was making the point we used to play zone at crucial times of the game. I would agree that that was at one point our go-to defense in the clutch (kinda like Dirk is our go-to guy on offense in clutch time).

jthig32 · 02-28-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I remember hearing something a couple weeks ago about us leading the league in zone defense, but we only use it about 17% of the time...

That's a lot, but it definitely isn't being employed throughout a majority of the game (although we play a bit of a man-zone, so it's kinda hard to tell when we're using it...)

12.8 percent, according to Synergy Sports, via this article, linked by yours truly in this thread.

Underdog · 02-28-2011, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

12.8 percent, according to Synergy Sports, via this article, linked by yours truly in this thread.

There we go - 12.8% is even less than I thought...

(great find, btw!)

DirkFTW · 02-28-2011, 03:23 PM

Is the game plan to increase the amount of zone D in the playoffs?

cowdog80 · 02-28-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Is the game plan to increase the amount of zone D in the playoffs?

I doubt it. Use it as a curveball (as previously mentioned) to stop runs or just change the look on occasion. But good playoff teams will tear apart a zone the more they see it.

LonghornDub · 02-28-2011, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowdog80

But good playoff teams will tear apart a zone the more they see it.

Like the '06 Mavs against the Heat.

...dammit.

deamon · 02-28-2011, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

You sound like a broken record...

Because it's problem still doesn't solved, and we have only 2 months to 2 round.

Underdog · 02-28-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deamon

Because it's problem still doesn't solved, and we have only 2 months to 2 round.

Good point - I'm sure bitching about it ad nauseum will fix the problem...

(assuming that's what the jumble of words you just typed translates into...)

deamon · 02-28-2011, 05:58 PM

Fix your brain.

bernardos70 · 02-28-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deamon

Fix your brain.

Uhhh, UD..... Sick burn!

rabbitproof · 02-28-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

A few individual stats, none of which are necessarily particularly meaningful but all of which may be interesting:

-Individually, the player with the best defensive rating is Chandler (102). Beaubois is next at 103, but his sample size is obviously quite small

-The three players with the worst individual defensive ratings are Terry (108), Barea (108), and DSteve (109).

-If you like win-shares (I don't care for them much), Kidd has the highest defensive WS on the team at 2.8. Chandler is second at 2.6. Dirk and Matrix third at 2.2

Where'd you get the defensive player rankings? Also surprised to see DSteve doing the worst.

j0Shi · 02-28-2011, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Where'd you get the defensive player rankings? Also surprised to see DSteve doing the worst.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2011.html

kg_veteran · 02-28-2011, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

12.8 percent, according to Synergy Sports, via this article, linked by yours truly in this thread.

This is the data to which I was referring. Secondly, when I watch them play (which is every game, pretty much), I anecdotally see them play a lot more man defense than zone. I think the fact that they switch a lot, particularly on the perimeter, makes it look like zone when in fact they are playing man-to-man defense.

wilmtalk · 03-01-2011, 08:17 AM

I think it might be possible that it is taking Dirk longer to get back into his Defensive shape. I seem to think that he is not moving as quickly on the rotations as he did before his injury. He does seem to be improving with more time.

vinylstar · 03-01-2011, 09:58 AM

This thread will head in a positive direction if we get two defensive liabilities out of the starting line up. Once we have a sufficient sample size I'd like to see the Butler + Stevenson SL compared to Peja+ Roddy SL.

DirkFTW · 03-01-2011, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

(assuming that's what the jumble of words you just typed translates into...)

I caught something about tight pants, a pocket, a space rocket, climbing higher, space invading a moon crater, and then splashing back down to Earth.

nowhereman · 03-01-2011, 08:45 PM

Remember when our team used to pride itself on not giving up 30 point quarters this season? Well yeah... not so much anymore.

mavs777 · 03-02-2011, 02:12 PM

12th in defensive effeciency

we finished 12th last year

1. Chicago
2. Boston
3. Orlando
4. Miami (they play worse offense in the east? well their are 4 teams in double digits in offensive effeciency all from the east, 7 of top 8 in offensive effeciency are from the west)

West Contender
7. SA
8. Lakers
12. Dallas
15. Portland
16. OKC

New Orleans is 6th but I don't really see them as a contender

nowhereman · 03-02-2011, 03:42 PM

We were 9th in defensive rating the year we went to finals, and 3d the year we went to the conference finals (under Don Nelson!?!), hovered near the top the 67 win season, then went down to 18th. Obviously better to be near the top but i think we just have to aim to be in the top 10.

Mavericks Rockets Fan · 03-02-2011, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

12th in defensive effeciency

we finished 12th last year

1. Chicago
2. Boston
3. Orlando
4. Miami (they play worse offense in the east? well their are 4 teams in double digits in offensive effeciency all from the east, 7 of top 8 in offensive effeciency are from the west)

West Contender
7. SA
8. Lakers
12. Dallas
15. Portland
16. OKC

New Orleans is 6th but I don't really see them as a contender

You didn't include New York as a contender?