Mavs should go on full tank mode

[Spurred1]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Garnett's a pussy. I doubt he could handle Hump.

Hump isn't that much, either. Anyone who gets chumped by Kardashian crap is missing a lot.

[adonis]

No. Continue the playoff streak please.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Spurred1

Hump isn't that much, either. Anyone who gets chumped by Kardashian crap is missing a lot.

He had his fun, sounds like he had the better of it.

[LSMF]

Just tank.

[sefant77]

Yeah because sitting Dirk most of the year and tanking really gonna attract those high profile FA. And late lottery picks are really tasty. But hey, there is the small chance for a higher pick or maybe even hit the jackpot. Wooow..

Its the same situation we were in our 2-7 streak. Mayo/Kaman suck if they have to carry a team as go-to-guys. Put them behind a healthy Dirk as 2nd/3rd option and they will be more than fine. Marion and Brand are great glue guys. If you use them as glue guys and not ask or force them to play outside their comfort range...

With Dirk this team has more than enough potential for nice playoffs. They just look like garbage because they are forced to do too much outside their skill- and comfort-range. Like it happened during the 2-7 run.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Yeah because sitting Dirk most of the year and tank really gonna attract those high profile FA. And late lottery picks are really tasty. But hey, there is the small chance for a higher pick or maybe even hit the jackpot. Wooow..

This team is a 7th or 8th seed with Dirk, sure they can and might get hot. But most likely they'll get thrashed in the 1st Round. And you say it like we attract "High Profile FA" here anyway. Idk, maybe you enjoy being mediocre, but I don't. The team needs to be really good or really bad. They need to choose one.

[sefant77]

I take my chances for really good and trust Dirk (and the rest of the roster getting their acts together and taking advantage of playing with Dirk).

[markus1234]

I agree with you sefant77. But Dirk can't fix our PG position and our defense. We still need to tweak the roster a little bit, this season.


PG: .... / Fisher
SG: Mayo / ....
SF: Marion / Carter
PF: Dirk / ....
C: .... / Kaman

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I take my chances for really good and trust Dirk (and the rest of the roster getting their acts together and taking advantage of playing with Dirk).

OK, that's fair enough if you actually think they're gunna be really good with Dirk. Yes, Dirk is a Hall of Famer but this set of guys look like they have no chemistry. They can't defend. They can't rebound. And I'm sure they don't like Carlislie much at this point. So you think a 34 year old Dirk who just came off of Knee surgery is going to magically to fix all of this? I think Dirk coming back will def give the team a lift both on the court and mentally. However, I still think they'll be a mediocre team that will get owned in the playoffs. I would love to eat crow on this but I just honestly can't see how Dirk can fix all the problems of this team.

[sefant77]

I would love to steal Jack from the Warriors...but no way they are trading him...

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by LSMF

OK, that's fair enough if you actually think they're gunna be really good with Dirk. Yes, Dirk is a Hall of Famer but this set of guys look like they have no chemistry. They can't defend. They can't rebound. And I'm sure they don't like Carlislie much at this point. So you think a 34 year old Dirk who just came off of Knee surgery is going to magically to fix all of this? I think Dirk coming back will def give the team a lift both on the court and mentally. However, I still think they'll be a mediocre team that will get owned in the playoffs. I would love to eat crow on this but I just honestly can't see how Dirk can fix all the problems of this team.

Well, the offense will fix almost from self. You have a true halfcourt option and its a huge different if Mayo/Kaman are the 2nd/3rd options or the go-to-guys.

Right now we are playing most of the time smallball at the four with Crowder or Marion. Dirk (even coasting on rebounding the past seasons in the RS) is still an excellent defensive rebounder, so this will improve too.

The potential is still there. way too much potential to go in tank mode if Dirk could be back healty in 2-3 weeks.

[EricaLubarsky]

Shoot for the playoffs and if we fail, so be it, but trying is going to be much better for our future than tanking the next 64 games so that we can use our one first-rounder when draft picks almost never pan out for the team that drafts them. San Antonio has a handful of exceptions but teams rarely score a star and when they do the player often does not blossom on the team that drafted them.

Plus, it may sound counter-intuitive, but it may benefit us to get a 21-30 pick this year to give to Houston so that we can bank on having first-rounders in the future-- particularly when we are rebuilding post-Dirk. Get our obligations out of the way, and then start collecting draft picks for trade or development to continue being good.

We may not make the playoffs even if we try-- and if we get through 72 games and we are on the outside looking in, then I'd consider tanking a couple of games. Until then, I'd say our chances of securing a 5-8 seed is really good once Dirk returns and that is far more beneficial to our future than tanking for one first rounder in this draft.

[Kante]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I would love to steal Jack from the Warriors...but no way they are trading him...

No, thanks!

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Shoot for the playoffs and if we fail, so be it, but trying is going to be much better for our future than tanking the next 64 games so that we can use our one first-rounder when draft picks almost never pan out for the team that drafts them. San Antonio has a handful of exceptions but teams rarely score a star and when they do the player often does not blossom on the team that drafted them.

Plus, it may sound counter-intuitive, but it may benefit us to get a 21-30 pick this year to give to Houston so that we can bank on having first-rounders in the future-- particularly when we are rebuilding post-Dirk. Get our obligations out of the way, and then start collecting draft picks for trade or development to continue being good.

We may not make the playoffs even if we try-- and if we get through 72 games and we are on the outside looking in, then I'd consider tanking a couple of games. Until then, I'd say our chances of securing a 5-8 seed is really good once Dirk returns and that is far more beneficial to our future than tanking for one first rounder in this draft.

Idk, Who are we better than when Dirk returns? Maybe Houston, maybe Golden State?

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Btw guys don't be shocked if Dirk's knee injury keeps him out much longer than suspected and Carlisle keeps throwing out wacky lineups and the mavs land themselves some ping pong balls. Wink wink..

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2012/12...-out-till-2012

Cuban and Donnie ain't dumb. This team isn't going anywhere. Why not add a top ten pick to the enormous amount of salary cap we have? Called it first.

[EricaLubarsky]

Kinda pissed I bought league pass now. This team could easily be 12-19 before Dirk returns.

Even more pissed that Carlisle refuses to play his winning lineups and plays as if he's trying to get fired or trying to force square pegs into round holes.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Even more pissed that Carlisle refuses to play his winning lineups and plays as if he's trying to get fired or trying to force square pegs into round holes.

Outside of Wright/Murphy, what are you referring to here?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Outside of Wright/Murphy, what are you referring to here?

He doesn't ride the hot man and doesn't keep effective lineups out there for long. It really seems like lineup preconceptions are more important than empirical data or real-time stats for Carlisle. When a group figures the opponent out there, you let them play until the opponent figures them out, instead of saying, "wow, the rookies went on a 12-2 run, so let's pull them immediately and replace them with the guys that dug us a 20pt hole".

I'm not saying James and Wright should play 48mpg, but when Carlisle finds a lineup that works, he rarely milks it or keeps it on the floor.

Dahntay Jones has been one of our best players and can't get time, even when he sparks a run or shuts down a guy that has been killing us. Guy plays with fire, passion and conviction and has changed games, but he can't find PT either.

And when we go down 20-30-40, Carlisle would rather the guys that built the deficit dig themselves out of it instead of trying to find a lineup that works.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

He doesn't ride the hot man and doesn't keep effective lineups out there for long. It really seems like lineup preconceptions are more important than empirical data or real-time stats for Carlisle. When a group figures the opponent out there, you let them play until the opponent figures them out, instead of saying, "wow, the rookies went on a 12-2 run, so let's pull them immediately and replace them with the guys that dug us a 20pt hole".

I'm not saying James and Wright should play 48mpg, but when Carlisle finds a lineup that works, he rarely milks it or keeps it on the floor.

Dahntay Jones has been one of our best players and can't get time, even when he sparks a run or shuts down a guy that has been killing us. Guy plays with fire, passion and conviction and has changed games, but he can't find PT either.

And when we go down 20-30-40, Carlisle would rather the guys that built the deficit dig themselves out of it instead of trying to find a lineup that works.

Only Kaman has played more center minutes than Sarge and Brandan. How much more do you want them to get? The Mavs still have Elton available at the position.

As for Dahntay, I like him, but he's playing behind OJ and competing with Vince for minutes at the SG spot, and he's behind Marion, VC and Jae at SF. Arguably he should be getting a bit more time at SF and Jae should be getting a bit less, but there still just aren't a lot of minutes to be had. He might find there's more room for him when Dirk's back and the team is a bit less reliant on wing scoring.

As for playing the guys who built the deficit, I haven't seen every crappy effort by the Mavs this season, but I've seen enough of Rick this season and in previous ones to know that he's not afraid to be creative when it comes to looking for a lineup combination that can make something happen, so I'm really not even sure what the basis for that critique is. And at any rate, usually when a team falls behind by 20+, it's just not their night, and nothing that the coach does is going to sustainably right things, a few isolated runs notwithstanding; if your best players play poorly, you're probably going to lose. That said, more often than not lately, Collison's been one of the primary culprits when things have gone poorly, and PG is the one position where the Mavs have been almost completely lacking proven depth, so I don't think it should be at all surprising that in that respect they've tended to go back to one of the guys who helped dig the hole in the first place.

[The Ghost of Championship]

Not a big fan of tank man but when you got a player like Dirk you don't have to worry about internalizing a losing culture.

But no way we are tanking worse than Washington or Toronto or a handful others & mid-lottery draft picks are such a gamble that you're just as good off at 10-14. Plus, at the high end of the lottery you can trade for veterans pretty easy where 7 or so has such a skewed value that it's hard to match up deals with.

[Kante]

This message is hidden because The Ghost of Championship is on your ignore list.

I'm sure i miss a lot of great posts...

[Simple_Like_That]

Originally Posted by markus1234

I agree with you sefant77. But Dirk can't fix our PG position and our defense. We still need to tweak the roster a little bit, this season.


PG: .... / Fisher
SG: Mayo / ....
SF: Marion / Carter
PF: Dirk / ....
C: .... / Kaman

I agree 100% with your post... this ^ for me is the main look of your team for next season... I still believe players like D Jones, Wright, Brand and the rookies can be part of the future... But is safe to say that you guys need a starting C (a healthy one ... a rim protector - maybe you can get one with your pick) and a starting pg (try to find a big pg ... 6'5'' or 6'6'' to pair with OJ).