Are the Mavs a better team without NASH (103.3PM)

[sike]

they are about to tackle this topic here

[Dirkenstien]

Thanks for the heads up Sike

[dude1394]

It would appear so...

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: sike
they are about to tackle this topic here

What have they had to say about it so far?

[sike]

the morons have really only teased it so far....they'll hit it in a while

[sike]

here they go...

[sike]

I lied....they started talking about mooning people instead!! "These guys are the devil!"

[TripleDipping]

They spent approx. 15 minutes talking about Mavs and resumed the "moon" talk.

Such thrash.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally posted by: sike
I lied....they started talking about mooning people instead!! "These guys are the devil!"

agreed. They're a joke

[FilthyFinMavs]

When I tuned in they were tlaking about how the team is better without Finley. I then turned the station.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
When I tuned in they were tlaking about how the team is better without Finley. I then turned the station.

understandably so.

[Bookit]

Newey makes me crazy. I can't stand to listen to him for more than a few minutes.

[MikeB]

Newey is OK....but Brian doesn't know his ( l ) from a hole in the ground. Redneck a-hole was talking out of his ( l ) as usual saying the team is better without Fin. They played well last night but you can't really expect Quis and Josh to consistantly hit those open 3s like they did last night...Finley will on most occassions hit a decent % of them.

[PepperTheMavsFan41]

Agreed ^^^

The just quick hitted on what Kenny Smith said last night on TNT. Although they did put words in his mouth thou.

Kenny saying now that Nash is gone the ball flows more. Instead of Nash dribbling and finding someone.

Also due to we dont have a point guard out there half the time.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: MikeB
Newey is OK....but Brian doesn't know his ( l ) from a hole in the ground. Redneck a-hole was talking out of his ( l ) as usual saying the team is better without Fin. They played well last night but you can't really expect Quis and Josh to consistantly hit those open 3s like they did last night...Finley will on most occassions hit a decent % of them.

Agreed. I have no problem with the argument but the timing just isn't right for me. All it takes is one game to figure whether or not this team is better without Finley?

[Murphy3]

I don't like Newey, but Brian goes above and beyond the call of duty when it comes to totally sucking.

[FilthyFinMavs]

What do you guys listen to? I turn into the Ticket and they are totally off subject it seems when I tune in. I tune into Espn 1033 and they are talking about milky asses. Seems like Fox Sports Radio is my best option but I don't get it very clear where I live

[MavKikiNYC]

Re: The Nash Question--

Tough to say that they're better without Nash, but it's becoming pretty clear that they have more potential.

[dude1394]

It's now become the dirk nowitzki point-forward... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

And thank goodness he's a LOT better at everything than the clanker.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
Re: The Nash Question--

Tough to say that they're better without Nash, but it's becoming pretty clear that they have more potential.

Yes, it is. Our current PG play and general team passing has to improve for the team to be successful in the playoffs, but the early returns are really positive, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

[Murphy3]

The Mavs are better without Nash, but they are not better because Nash is not on the court. If you 'could' substitute Nash in for what they have at point and keep every other position the same as it currently is, the Mavs would be a better team than they currently are at this point in the season.

[dude1394]

Agreed el murphbo'.

[EricaLubarsky]

The point guards this year are shooting an
effective FG% of 52.7%
and allowing an
effective FG% of 38.0%

Last year Nash shot an
effective FG% of 49.5%
and allowed
effective FG% of 49.0%

That isnt just because Nash had a poor year with the Antwins.

In the previous year Nash did a little better: scoring at an
effective FG% of 49.7%
and allowed opponents to score at an
effective FG% of 46.5%

Last year we got 10.6 assists from the PG position. This year we are only getting 5.3 assists from there. We are getting more assists from the SG and SF position, but only about 0.8 apg more, which means our overall assists are way down this year. That's going to be something that we ave to work on. We either need more assists from everyone, or the PGs have to improve or both.

[grndmstr_c]

The Mavs are better without Nash, but they are not better because Nash is not on the court. If you 'could' substitute Nash in for what they have at point and keep every other position the same as it currently is, the Mavs would be a better team than they currently are at this point in the season.

Agreed. Nash is playing better than either JT or Devin, despite the success the Mavs have been having with the latter two. Not until Devin really steps forward to lay claim to being the team's finisher at point and not just it's starter will the question of whether we're better because we don't have Nash even be worth considering.

[ocelot_ark]

Why mess with what's working. I'd rather watch this mavs team than any of the last 2 seasons. Who cares if our PG's aren't producing offensively like Nash would? At least the Mike Bibby's of the world aren't getting career highs against us anymore. Good riddance, I say...

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: ocelot_ark
Why mess with what's working. I'd rather watch this mavs team than any of the last 2 seasons. Who cares if our PG's aren't producing offensively like Nash would? At least the Mike Bibby's of the world aren't getting career highs against us anymore. Good riddance, I say...

I didn't have problems with the Mike Bibby's getting career highs against us. I just couldn't stomach the Mark Blounts and Dalemembert's going Wilt Chamberlain-like on us.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[EricaLubarsky]

Who cares if our PG's aren't producing offensively like Nash would?

On scoring: Our PGs are scoring 0.6ppg more than last year.

On Assists: Our PGs are dishing half as many assists as last year. It doesnt matter as long as we win, but in my opinion, we should work on getting up closer to 7.5-8 apg from them.

[PepperTheMavsFan41]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
The Mavs are better without Nash, but they are not better because Nash is not on the court. If you 'could' substitute Nash in for what they have at point and keep every other position the same as it currently is, the Mavs would be a better team than they currently are at this point in the season.

This is true, however its not as bad as people will think. The Defense Harris is throwing out is so much better.

1) Totally take Bibby outta the game.

2) Caused J Williams to get "into it" with Hubie.

3) Forced Wade into 2 first quarter Offensive fouls, sitting him down.

[bernardos70]

I'm pretty much with Erica on this one. And yes FFM, those scrubs having career highs against us happens no more, and I'm glad it stopped because that was mighty annoying. PG's are struggling against us. Full court press sometimes doesn't look like it's doing much but it takes its tow on the other PG's. That and getting hounded, trapped all the time, and getting passed deflected.

At the end, I can't complain about our PG play this season. And overall, I would say we are better off now and most definitely in the future

[Drbio]

To answer the question....this team is better off without Nash. Nash was a swinging foor-drive-it-down-our-throats-no-toll-needed-just-come-on-in liability. On the offensive end, there is little doubt that Nash is a great player, but good Lord he sucked on defense. I much prefer our current situation.

I too would like to see a conscientous effort for more assists, but winning allows me to tolerate that little blip thus far in the young season.

[fifteenth man]

The replacement of Nash and no back up with Devin and The Jet has thus far meant:

1) Better defence

2) More Dirk reliance

I like both of these things.

I have wondered what the down swing in assists will mean for the team but I haven't come to any conclusions. My guess is that it is helping Dirk to get more assists, and that our assist totals will improve as we play together and as Devin improves.

[grndmstr_c]

I have wondered what the down swing in assists will mean for the team but I haven't come to any conclusions. My guess is that it is helping Dirk to get more assists, and that our assist totals will improve as we play together and as Devin improves.

I expect we'll see assists go up as Devin finds a groove, also. As long as Dirk gets his touches in the half-court and as long as we move the ball like we did last night, though, I'm not too worried. We've got a lot of players who can create their own offense, and the tendency of some of them to prefer creating off the dribble (as opposed to being catch and shoot guys like we've had a surprlus of in the past) will reduce the opportunities for assists to be recorded. But if the ball stays in motion the net result will be to get the defense scrambling, which will only aid the guys with one-on-one skills in taking their man, which will pay dividends on the scoreboard even if it the boosted productivity doesn't necessarily show up in the assist column

[Max Power]

I think the assists will come once the players get more used to each other. Remember we didn't get a training camp for these guys because of all the injuries.

[Dirkenstien]

We are definitely better off without Nash because of the improved defense. Aslong as the opposition's points are not penetrating then we can keep everyone else infront of us.

[rakesh.s]

i don't think you can necessarily say better because you never know what nash would've done this year after they cleared out jamison and walker

he's certainly playing well in phoenix and is the mvp for them....he's also on that jason kidd level now where he makes everyone around him better..there's no arguing that

with nash gone, the team basically has a dimension that you haven't seen before..you get younger guys playing PG who can defend but whether that is better or not still remains to be seen..let's get to the playoffs and see what happens

of course the way they are playing now, you'd have to say they are the best team in the west..especially considering how much trouble San antonio had on their home floor tonight against miami without wade and shaq with a bad hammy

i don't know if any of that makes sense..but whatever [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: rakesh.s
i don't think you can necessarily say better because you never know what nash would've done this year after they cleared out jamison and walker

he's certainly playing well in phoenix and is the mvp for them....he's also on that jason kidd level now where he makes everyone around him better..there's no arguing that

with nash gone, the team basically has a dimension that you haven't seen before..you get younger guys playing PG who can defend but whether that is better or not still remains to be seen..let's get to the playoffs and see what happens

of course the way they are playing now, you'd have to say they are the best team in the west..especially considering how much trouble San antonio had on their home floor tonight against miami without wade and shaq with a bad hammy

i don't know if any of that makes sense..but whatever [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

Great point. We are definately in a better situation for the future but no one here knows how good this team would've been with Nash here and with Damp here.

[V]

Personally, I think the difference in assists is based on how Nelly is having the team play. Against Golden State, Orlando, and today NJ the Mavs were running a lot of half-court sets. When Nelly opens it up you get fewer set plays, a higher tempo game, more pick & rolls, and more assists. Perhaps Nelly is being purposeful ... looking to establish some things that work in the half-court; things to compliment what works when the Mavs push the ball...

[LRB]

IMO there is no question that this team is far superior w/o Nash than it would be w Nash. Nash with Harris backing him up would almost assuredly given us a great deal more stats offensively than Harris with JET backing him up. However we would have suffered on the defensive end with Nash in the game. One of our trademarks that is developing defensively is the fullcourt press, which I can't see Nash being able to do on a regular basis. We've also benefited by the great hands of Terry and Devin coming up with huge steals. Nash on offense would have taken the ball out of Dirk's hands more, which I think in the long run will hurt much more than help.

The biggest loss of Nash so far is more TO's and fewer assists. The TO's will go down as the team gets to know each other, but it's unlikely we'll get as low as if we had Nash. However, we are getting much more forced TO's when we play D which I think will eventually make up for the additional TO's that we have on offense. As for the assists, I'm not that worried. I think this number will pickup some as this team gets to know each other better. However, we are driving the ball much more and getting to the line much more than with Nash monopolizing the ball. I'll take the fewer assists we're getting if it means getting to the line more as we are. I certainly don't remember us as consistently in the past getting key opposing players in foul trouble as we have so far this year.

Nash is a great player offensively, but he is a very poor player defensively. Nash also needs to dominate the ball on offense to be effective. Personally, I'm much more comfortable running the offense more through Dirk.

[V2M]

Nash's run & gun style is great to watch and certainly wins many games in the regular season. But come playoff time, he's almost always too fatigued to be effective.

[cheesestar]

nash is great to have in fantasy basketball


[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

but on topic i think our defensive gains outweigh the offensive losses from losing steve nash