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Old 06-26-2005, 12:30 PM   #1
riDIRKulous41
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Default Legitimate Trade with Utah


Utah is sitting there with 2 first round picks, but their real need (pg) might not be addressed at 6. The 2 players they like (Chris Paul and Deron Williams) will be gone in the top 5 according to most mock drafts.

A couple of years ago Utah signed Jason Terry to a RFA contract which Atlanta matched, but obviously Sloane thinks Terry can be a PG on his team, or they would not have attempted to get him.

My proposed trade is Jason Terry and Keith Van Horn for #6 and Raul Lopez.

Utah gets a proven PG that they have already shown interest in and a good scorer, local guy in the last year of his deal. If things work out, they can always resign him to a cheaper deal. KVH would be comfortable being back in Utah.

Dallas gets Raul Lopez to provide some depth at PG (Harris would start and Daniels can play there as well) and with #6, we draft Channing Frye. He is in the mold of many of the young Centers in today's game like Amare. He is extremely athletic and a very good shot blocker.

If you think about it, the deal isn't terribly different than the one last year with Washington when we got the #5 pick used on Harris. It is doable for both teams and makes sense. Plus, for us it removes 1 very large salary and 1 big salary. Combine that with Bradley retiring and Finley's money coming off the luxury tax calculations if he is waived, our financial situation just gets better and better. The only question is if Utah is far enough below the cap to absorb Terry and KVH. It is close, we might have to take Harpring instead because his contract is bigger than Lopez's. If so, you can always move him in a seperate deal because he is in the last year of his deal and is a decent player.

The ESPN mock draft has them taking Frye, but their cap is already loaded in the front court positions with Boozer, Okur, and Kirlilenko.



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Old 06-26-2005, 12:34 PM   #2
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Default RE: Legitimate Trade with Utah

I believe I've read that Lopez is probably going to leave the NBA.
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Old 06-26-2005, 12:45 PM   #3
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Default RE: Legitimate Trade with Utah

Ah, I had not read that. Guess maybe that pushes Harpring into the deal. That is fine by me. He is tough, good rebounder, good shooter and in the last year of his deal. As I mentioned, he could be traded, but if he stayed with the team it would be good too. We would just have to find a backup PG in free agency with the MLE or something.

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Old 06-26-2005, 01:05 PM   #4
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Default RE: Legitimate Trade with Utah

grndmstr_c you are right. He wants a buyout. He has had 4 knee surgery. He wants to play in a league with an easier schedule.

Also, they already have kirlenko and harping as 3/4 guys, they don't need van horn. Also, the numbers don't work. KVH make 14 mil and JT makes 7 MIL.

2 possible trades: JT for the #6 pick and harping (4.5 MILL)
Or JT (7.5) and stack(7.5) for #6, harping(4.5) and Okur(8).
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Old 06-26-2005, 01:20 PM   #5
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Default RE:Legitimate Trade with Utah


No way I would take back Okur...he is horrible. Plus I want to keep Stack. He is a slasher who draws fouls. We need that on this team.

On the other hand, the proposed deal I said after grndmstr_c told me that Lopez wants a buyout was to put Harpring IN the trade. That makes the numbers work and removes the issue of having Kirlilenko and Harping (3-4 guys) and adding VanHorn.

Dallas sends
JT (7 mil) and VanHorn (15 mil) = 22 million

Utah sends
Harpring (5 mil) and #6 pick

Utah is under the cap by about 12 million I think. Utah can replace Harpring with Van Horn who has a better all around game and is an icon in Utah from his college days there. In turn, they can resign him after the season if they want, or use him as trade bait for a team looking to dump cap space. If additional filler is needed to make it work, Evan Eschmeyer or Tariq Abdul Wahad's contracts could be dealt. Esch is retired because of injury so his money comes off the books this year and TAW's deal is only partially guaranteed over the next 2 years and is paid by insurance because he can't play.




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Old 06-26-2005, 01:25 PM   #6
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Default RE: Legitimate Trade with Utah

hoopshype has Utah committed to about 46 million in salaries next year. If that's correct they don't have any room to accomodate the extra salary.

And really, I'm not that big on the trade anyway.
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Old 06-26-2005, 01:38 PM   #7
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Default RE: Legitimate Trade with Utah

I hear that grndmstr_c.
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Old 06-26-2005, 02:06 PM   #8
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Default RE:Legitimate Trade with Utah


They do if you include TAW and the MLE.
What is it you don't like about the trade? I mean, I like Terry as a backup PG and I really like KVH off the bench, but nobody on our team can deal with Amare, a guy that we are going to have to look at for another 10 years or so. It would be nice to go after a guy like Frye who at least physically appears to have the tools to contend with him, and being that Frye's strong point is post defense, shot blocking and athleticism I think he is a perfect fit.

Since that deal doesn't work for you, how do you propose we deal with Amare? I think Nash will be less effective if we can better deal with his weapons. We can then do to him what everyone did to us in years past when he was here. Put a quick PG on him (Devin) and hound him to death for 48 minutes. If we are constantly rotating to Amare that leaves the lane wide open for him and others. We have to find a way to deal with Amare.
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Old 06-26-2005, 02:40 PM   #9
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Default RE: Legitimate Trade with Utah

Man, the numbers just don't work. You need to exchange salaries with a difference less the 25%. You are giving 22 Mill and taking 5 back. You need to take at least 17 Mill from Utah. I said this before, and it needs repetition, the DON'T need a guy like Van Horn.

I heard that they want to get rid of one of the big contract they have (okur or boozer).
Boozer is not that attractive for us at all.

JT is a perfect fit for them. They NEED him. I am still thinking of a possible trade that they would do in which the numbers work.
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Old 06-26-2005, 03:05 PM   #10
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Default RE: Legitimate Trade with Utah

Maybe I'm undervaluing Frye, riDIRK. I don't pay incredibly close attention to college bball. Then again, his profile on nbadraft.net lists the comparison player as Jarron Collins, and questions whether he has the lateral mobility to guard quicker PF's in the NBA. That doesn't sound like the profile of an Amare stopper. But regardless, I'm not inclined to think the Mavs need to go out of their way to get an Amare stopper. Just build a good team. The rest will take care of itself.
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Old 06-26-2005, 04:27 PM   #11
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Default RE:Legitimate Trade with Utah

I see Utah taking Van Horn with open arms. He would put a lot of butts in the Delta Center, not that they really have a major problem with that. I'd do a #6 and Harpring for JT and KVH. I think Utah would consider it very strongly.
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Old 06-26-2005, 07:05 PM   #12
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Default RE:Legitimate Trade with Utah

Quote:
No way I would take back Okur...he is horrible
Huh? What? 13 and 8 in 28 mpg is horrible? What?
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Old 06-26-2005, 08:47 PM   #13
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Default RE:Legitimate Trade with Utah


He is soft like Charmin....this team doesn't need that. Even Antoine Walker put up numbers...surely you wouldn't want him back?



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Old 06-26-2005, 08:56 PM   #14
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Default RE:Legitimate Trade with Utah


I guess to be technical about it, we have to take back about 12 million. 22 - 5 = 17 x 25%.
Given that, maybe we work a 3 way deal with the Lakers to help the move of Boozer.

If not, maybe the previously mentioned JT for #6. That deal just seems simple to me and one-sided in our favor and I don't think Utah would make it.



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Old 06-26-2005, 09:00 PM   #15
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Default RE:Legitimate Trade with Utah

Intriguing trade... certainly better than most that are suggested here, however, I'd say no. If the purpose of the trade is to draft an "Amare stopper" then that's not enough. Utah definately needs JT, but at this point I don't think we can lose him either. Harris will probably be a very good PG eventually, but he's got a ways to go, and I simply don't think a PG rotation of Harris/Daniels is anywhere near good enough for us to continue being contenders. Besides, I really don't think finding a guy to match up with Amare is that much of a priority. Amare torched the Spurs worse than he did us, and the Spurs stomped Phoenix 4-1. Continuity and chemistry is our top priority IMO. Keep thinking though; I certainly wouldn't mind adding more youth to the team and more D to the frontcourt.
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Old 06-26-2005, 11:52 PM   #16
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Default RE:Legitimate Trade with Utah

Quote:
Originally posted by: riDIRKulous41
I guess to be technical about it, we have to take back about 12 million. 22 - 5 = 17 x 25%.
That is wrong. A team should not take more than 25% of what it is giving and vise versa.

So the correct calculations are: If we send Utah 22 million, 25% of 22 is 5.5. So they should at least send back 16.5, not 12. That is ridiculous. And the maximum they can send back is 27.5, not more.

So if we send 22, we should receive between 16.5-27.5 according to the 25% rule.
The question is, how much is the pick worth in a trade, 2 Million, 5, or 1. I don't know.

Correct my cac. if I am wrong, but I don’t think I am.
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Old 06-27-2005, 07:36 AM   #17
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Default RE: Legitimate Trade with Utah

i believe its still 15% + 100K until July 1st, then the new deal kicks in and it jumps to 25 %
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Old 06-27-2005, 09:24 AM   #18
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Default RE:Legitimate Trade with Utah


Your calculations are correct, you just forgot to subtract the incoming salary from Utah before calculating the difference.

22 million to Utah
-5 million from Utah
= 17 million dollar gap
25% float means we can be as much as 5 million "off"
we have to make up another 12 million
that is where I was saying TAW's contract and the MLE come in. Those two are close to 12 million, depending on what the MLE calculates to exactly, which isn't known until just before free agency because it changes every year based on revenue.



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Old 06-27-2005, 09:28 AM   #19
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Default RE:Legitimate Trade with Utah


Good point, so a deal like that could be after the draft, once the new CBA kicks in. If a deal was worked out ahead of time, they would just draft whoever we want, like when we got Dirk and last year when we got Devin. The deal just wouldn't be finalized for another week or so.









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Old 06-27-2005, 09:31 AM   #20
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Default RE: Legitimate Trade with Utah

Why are you subtracting 5 from 22? The gap should be within 25%. Weird.

Also, previously, if you sign a free agent, you have to wait 3 months until u can trade him. U can't trade the MLE now.

Also, Utah are moving up and getting the #3 pick. They love Deron Williams and he will be a perfect fit.
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Old 06-27-2005, 10:10 AM   #21
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Default RE:Legitimate Trade with Utah


Because we are taking salary back, why are you not including it in the calculation?

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Old 06-27-2005, 10:20 AM   #22
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Default RE:Legitimate Trade with Utah


I don't disagree with you, I'm not looking for an "Amare stopper" because as you stated, he lit up SA and they still won the series 4-1. But SA played him honest for the most part. he did his damage one on one. We don't have anyone that can play him straight up and not foul out in 15 minutes. We need to add a big athlete that can play defense. Even if Amare goes off for 40 against us, we will be playing him straight up, meaning we aren't leaving their shooters (Jim Jackson anyone?) all alone for wide open jumpers.
I don't expect anyone to "stop" him. It is how we approach them that concerns me and on this team the only alternative I see is MAYBE Mbenga. He is the only guy on the team with the size and athleticism to even try and guard Amare one on one. His development could be key.

I'm just looking at a scenario where we move into the draft and take someone. Cuban made mention on the radio recently that they have some young guys they are watching. With no draft pick this year, they will have to be looking at some kind of move to get someone, unless he is talking an undrafted free agent, which isn't really reaching very high, not his style. Either they are looking at moving into the draft (via trade of course) to draft someone, or there is a young guy out there on the trade block that he and Donnie have an interest in. When I heard that, I started looking at potential trade partners. Utah is someone we have dealt with in the past (of course, so is Boston, Atlanta, Golden State, New York, Washington, Milwaukee, and New Jersey...lol). The Utah connection to Terry is what intrigued me. They made a run at him in the past. If they can't move up to get one of the 2 PGs they really like, getting Terry may be their alternative.

Jeez...I mean, we are talking about speculation of what CUBAN might do...lol. Nobody really knows anyway. Its all just fun and games, but we will know alot more in about 36 hours.


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Old 06-27-2005, 10:58 AM   #23
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Default RE: Legitimate Trade with Utah

If Utah is 12M under the cap. Why wouldn't Dallas just trade them Terry for the draft pick? Wouldn't Dallas just get a trade exception for him?

Have I missed something in the current CBA that wouldn't allow this?
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Old 06-27-2005, 11:06 AM   #24
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Default RE: Legitimate Trade with Utah

I agree with you. You make valid points.

Especially this point: “We don't have anyone that can play him straight up and not foul out in 15 minutes. We need to add a big athlete that can play defense. Even if Amare goes off for 40 against us, we will be playing him straight up, meaning we aren't leaving their shooters (Jim Jackson anyone?) all alone for wide open jumpers. "

Getting Taft is the easiest thing we can do for a guy to play Amare and all the other forward 1 on 1. What intrigued me in the draft report about him is that he doesn’t commit silly fouls. I really see him as a sleeper.

As for guessing what Cuban will do, it is absolutely impossible.
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Old 06-27-2005, 11:17 AM   #25
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Default RE:Legitimate Trade with Utah


I'm just concerned they would not deal #6 for Terry straight up. If they will, that would be great.



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