Mavs should go on full tank mode

[oilfieldtrash]

We've got nothing. Point guard play is atrocious, we get pushed around at will by other teams, there are no blue chip guys to build around currently. Mayo is a nice piece but let's be honest he's not a franchise guy and he's looking for a payday I wouldn't be willing to pay him. Dirk is an all time great but even he can't save this sinking ship. We can't build around a 34 year old Dirk with a bum knee. We need a top 5 pick and a true young superstar to build around.
Regardless of whatever they do Dirk has the choice to retire a mav if he chooses to or if he accepts we trade him to a contender.

[markus1234]

I do not care about the MAVS. But Dirk should not tank. There is a job to be done


1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 38387
2. Karl Malone* 36928
3. Michael Jordan* 32292
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 31419
5. Kobe Bryant 29900
6. Shaquille O'Neal 28596
7. Moses Malone* 27409
8. Elvin Hayes* 27313
9. Hakeem Olajuwon* 26946
10. Oscar Robertson* 26710
11. Dominique Wilkins* 26668
12. John Havlicek* 26395
13. Alex English* 25613
14. Reggie Miller* 25279
15. Jerry West* 25192
16. Patrick Ewing* 24815
17. Kevin Garnett 24508
18. Allen Iverson 24368
19. Dirk Nowitzki 24134

[oilfieldtrash]

Btw guys don't be shocked if Dirk's knee injury keeps him out much longer than suspected and Carlisle keeps throwing out wacky lineups and the mavs land themselves some ping pong balls. Wink wink..

[spreedom]

Wow. We're 1 game under .500 without a top 10 player in the league, getting minimal contributions from Brand and terrible point guard play.

Freaking chill out.

[Kante]

5-star thread, will recommend to friends and family!

[Budapest Maverick]

You know what, we probably should. But Cuban wouldn't do it. Carlisle wouldn't do it. So yeah, we're not gonna tank, regardless of what some of us think.

[ChileanMavsFan]

Originally Posted by markus1234

I do not care about the MAVS. But Dirk should not tank. There is a job to be done


1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 38387
2. Karl Malone* 36928
3. Michael Jordan* 32292
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 31419
5. Kobe Bryant 29900
6. Shaquille O'Neal 28596
7. Moses Malone* 27409
8. Elvin Hayes* 27313
9. Hakeem Olajuwon* 26946
10. Oscar Robertson* 26710
11. Dominique Wilkins* 26668
12. John Havlicek* 26395
13. Alex English* 25613
14. Reggie Miller* 25279
15. Jerry West* 25192
16. Patrick Ewing* 24815
17. Kevin Garnett 24508
18. Allen Iverson 24368
19. Dirk Nowitzki 24134

Given his recent statement that he wishes to play atleast a couple more years after ending his current contract, were do you see Dirk finishing his career? top-10? I think catching Wilt is out of the question, but i wonder if he is gonna be able to be higher than Shaq on that list, that would be a huge accomplishment.

[markus1234]

~Top 10...behind LBJ and Durnat. So he needs to be top 8 on that list.

Of course 30.000 is still possible. Depends on his health...and how long he wants to play.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Every season we have someone suggest the team tank. Cuban and Carlisle are in the winning basketball games business. Unless Dirk is out for the season, then there really is no reason to try and tank.

[CanadianMavsFan]

In case people are forgetting, the Mavericks lost 7 straight games and I believe were 2-7 overall without Dirk in 2011. You know, the season they won the championship and rolled through the playoffs? If Jason Kidd, Chandler, Terry, and the rest of that veteran cast couldn't manage to play winning basketball without him (and if I remember it was against some pretty bad teams) I don't expect this young team to do it.

Be patient, wait until Dirk returns. When he's in shape and playing, and this team is still flawed as all hell, feel free to suggest tanking. But for now, we all have to just hold on, and believe me I understand the frustration.

In Dirk I trust.

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by CanadianMavsFan

In case people are forgetting, the Mavericks lost 7 straight games and I believe were 2-7 overall without Dirk in 2011. You know, the season they won the championship and rolled through the playoffs? If Jason Kidd, Chandler, Terry, and the rest of that veteran cast couldn't manage to play winning basketball without him (and if I remember it was against some pretty bad teams) I don't expect this young team to do it.

Be patient, wait until Dirk returns. When he's in shape and playing, and this team is still flawed as all hell, feel free to suggest tanking. But for now, we all have to just hold on, and believe me I understand the frustration.

In Dirk I trust.

Not sure if serious. You're comparing a team featuring a younger Kidd, Terry, Marion, Barea coming off the bench, Chandler playing at dpoy level to the garbage that the mavs are throwing out there this year? Wow!

[EricaLubarsky]

Why on Earth would we want to tank?

If we tank this year, we may as well give up on the Cuban-era Mavericks. When you begin tanking, it's often years-- if not decades before a team emerges again. Before Dirk, it was 11-years of craptastic basketball.

Wasting Dirk would be a crime. Blowing up the team when we have 3-4 more good years with Dirk would be a travesty.

If we end up a lottery team at the end of the year, so be it. We don't have a bunch of 1st round picks. We have Dirk, Marion, maybe Carter, Cunningham and Crowder and a top-20 protected first rounder. That's it. Do you think we could liquidate Kaman, Mayo and Collison for something? Would that really help us long term?

Would it be more appealing for a FA to come to a lottery team or a playoff team?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Not sure if serious. You're comparing a team featuring a younger Kidd, Terry, Marion, Barea coming off the bench, Chandler playing at dpoy level to the garbage that the mavs are throwing out there this year? Wow!

I don't think he would say that we are a championship team just waiting for Dirk, but I agree with the sentiment. This team was VERY bad without Dirk the year they won the championship. Let's see what Dirk can do before jumping on the bandwagon that we need to liquidate all our assets and try to use our one-first rounder to try to get a guy like Cody Zeller who may be a flop or may take more years to develop than Dirk has time in the league.

Let Dirk play 20 games, and then we'll talk. Until then, this team just needs to win 5-6 games and get back to .500 before Dirk gets back.

[markus1234]

We should try to get Gortat and a PG. Gortat is a solid Chandler imitation.

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by markus1234

We should try to get Gortat and a PG. Gortat is a solid Chandler imitation.

Is Gortat available?

[oilfieldtrash]

Btw I'm friggin pissed at Cuban and Co. Look at the Boston/Nets game. Tempers flaring, fists flying. True emotion. Look at this mavs team. We get punked on a nightly basis and not even so much as a wimper heard from us.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Btw I'm friggin pissed at Cuban and Co. Look at the Boston/Nets game. Tempers flaring, fists flying. True emotion. Look at this mavs team. We get punked on a nightly basis and not even so much as a wimper heard from us.

Yeah, that's clearly what this team needs. They need guys fighting and getting ejected, leaving the roster even more depleted.

Absolutely.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Btw I'm friggin pissed at Cuban and Co. Look at the Boston/Nets game. Tempers flaring, fists flying. True emotion. Look at this mavs team. We get punked on a nightly basis and not even so much as a wimper heard from us.

Has beens going nowhere. You get rental players, that's what you get.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Btw I'm friggin pissed at Cuban and Co. Look at the Boston/Nets game. Tempers flaring, fists flying. True emotion. Look at this mavs team. We get punked on a nightly basis and not even so much as a wimper heard from us.

Can I agree with you AND LHD?

We don't need a bunch of ejections and fights. That is silly. We DO need guys that play like they care. James busts buns without being too emotional. Wright usually plays hard. Dahntay played with some serious emotion last night-- like he actually cared that we were losing and getting bullied on defense and the boards.

I don't want a bunch of Artests, but the team, has been playing soft and without passion, other than those three. Murphy and Kaman looked like they were just going through slow-motion drills in practice. Roddy looked like he wanted to be on the beach instead of handling the ball.

This team needs a chip on it's shoulder, a personality and some passion and I'm not sure how it will come about. I remember a few years ago when we got bumped from the playoffs and no one seemed to care that year either. It was good to see Terry build chemistry and care. I loved it when Diop went chest-to-chest to defend Dirk after a hard foul. It showed that the team was a team. I know it's hard with new players but it's even more reason to play guys like Dahntay, James, Carter-- even DoJo who is playing hard. We need to play the guys that hustle and play with passion because passion>>>skill particularly when a team is getting punked night after night after night. Pride is what makes teams gel and it's what motivates teams to be better. This team has none right now.

You fake it till you make it and Carlisle would be well advised to play energy guys until the rest of the guys start playing with that same intensity.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Can I agree with you AND LHD?

We don't need a bunch of ejections and fights. That is silly. We DO need guys that play like they care. James busts buns without being too emotional. Wright usually plays hard. Dahntay played with some serious emotion last night-- like he actually cared that we were losing and getting bullied on defense and the boards.

I don't want a bunch of Artests, but the tea, has been playing soft and without passion, other than those three. Murphy and Kaman looked like they were just going through slow-motion drills in practice. Roddy looked like he wanted to be on the beach instead of handling the ball.

It's one thing to say that a team needs to play with more fire. Nothing wrong with that. But that comment loses all merit when it's juxtaposed with another comment approving of an on-court brawl.

His equating "fists flying" with "true emotion" (both his words) was absolutely asinine.

[dirt_dobber]

Draft pick status -
(this data from realgm http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/dra...rafts/detailed )
CREDITS
2013 second round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
Dallas has the right to swap their own 2013 2nd round pick with the L.A. Lakers' own 2013 2nd round pick. [Dallas-L.A. Lakers, 12/11/2011]

2016 second round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' own 2016 2nd round pick to Dallas via Denver (top 55 protected in the 2016 Draft). If Memphis' own 2016 2nd round pick is in the top 55 picks, then Memphis' obligations to Dallas via Denver shall be extinguished. [Denver - Memphis, 8/7/2009 and then Dallas - Denver, 12/13/2011]

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
************DEBITS *****************************
2013 first round draft pick to Oklahoma City
Dallas' own 2013 first round draft pick to Oklahoma City via the L.A. Lakers and Houston ( top 20 protected in 2013, top 20 protected in 2014, top 20 protected in 2015, top 20 protected in 2016, top 20 protected in 2017 and unprotected in the 2018 Draft). [Dallas - L.A. Lakers, 12/11/2011 and then Houston-L.A. Lakers, 3/15/2012 and then Houston-Oklahoma City, 10/27/2012]

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

Draft pick status -
(this data from realgm http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/dra...rafts/detailed )
CREDITS
2013 second round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
Dallas has the right to swap their own 2013 2nd round pick with the L.A. Lakers' own 2013 2nd round pick. [Dallas-L.A. Lakers, 12/11/2011]

2016 second round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' own 2016 2nd round pick to Dallas via Denver (top 55 protected in the 2016 Draft). If Memphis' own 2016 2nd round pick is in the top 55 picks, then Memphis' obligations to Dallas via Denver shall be extinguished. [Denver - Memphis, 8/7/2009 and then Dallas - Denver, 12/13/2011]

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
************DEBITS *****************************
2013 first round draft pick to Oklahoma City
Dallas' own 2013 first round draft pick to Oklahoma City via the L.A. Lakers and Houston ( top 20 protected in 2013, top 20 protected in 2014, top 20 protected in 2015, top 20 protected in 2016, top 20 protected in 2017 and unprotected in the 2018 Draft). [Dallas - L.A. Lakers, 12/11/2011 and then Houston-L.A. Lakers, 3/15/2012 and then Houston-Oklahoma City, 10/27/2012]

In plain language, this year we have:
1st round pick if 1-20
2nd round pick Lakers/Mavs-- which ever one is higher

[samoan-maverickII]

Pisses me off when I see crap like this.

Dirk hasn't played a game yet. He makes the game SOOOOOOOO much easier for people. OJ got figured out. You think teams were gonna let him go off like he was? I'm positive those numbers will be back when Dirk is in the mix. Kaman won't get doubled, Matrix can stick to playing defense again and EB can benefit from playing aside a true superstar. Why panic when we have NO CLUE what our team really looks like? Keep it in your pants guys.

Edit: had to add more O's.

[sefant77]

We are not the Spurs and the next draft class isnt so good

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

We are not the Spurs and the next draft class isnt so good

Indeed. We are more likely to secure a Devin Harris than a Tim Duncan. And then what?

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by sefant77

We are not the Spurs and the next draft class isnt so good

This. The Robinson-Duncan thing was once in a multi-generation thing. I'd love for it to happen..

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by markus1234

We should try to get Gortat and a PG. Gortat is a solid Chandler imitation.

With what? We have no trade assets.

[saclare]

[saclare]

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Why on Earth would we want to tank?

If we tank this year, we may as well give up on the Cuban-era Mavericks. When you begin tanking, it's often years-- if not decades before a team emerges again. Before Dirk, it was 11-years of craptastic basketball.

Wasting Dirk would be a crime. Blowing up the team when we have 3-4 more good years with Dirk would be a travesty.

If we end up a lottery team at the end of the year, so be it. We don't have a bunch of 1st round picks. We have Dirk, Marion, maybe Carter, Cunningham and Crowder and a top-20 protected first rounder. That's it. Do you think we could liquidate Kaman, Mayo and Collison for something? Would that really help us long term?

Would it be more appealing for a FA to come to a lottery team or a playoff team?

A couple things: We were able to draft Dirk because we were bad enough to get a high draft pick. We finished the 97/98 season with a record of 20-62. You're saying Dirk has 3-4 good years left in him. I hope you are right. I think you are right. But are you really saying we should build a team around him as the first option, when he is 35, 36, and 37 years old, in hope to win another championship? Because he himself implied that may won't work. I would say that most certainly won't work, and i'm a huge fan, i really am.

The way i see it, we either need 3-4 proven all-star caliber players in their prime playing next to Dirk (like the Grizzlies roster), we obviously won't be able to achieve that, since we have 0 of those players outside of Dirk, or, we need some talent, and we need it fast. There is 2 ways for that, FA, and draft. I'm just asking, why not tank this year, when we clearly aren't going anywhere?

And don't start with the 2010/2011 team's tale. I saw a couple of guys brought that up (not you i think). That team started the season like what, 20-4? They were absolutely dominant until Dirk went down. After that, they sucked of course, for a good portion of the season, they even struggled with Dirk, but once march (i think) rolled around, we did have i believe 23 consecutive games, where we won 20 of them, and lost 3 games, with a combined 4 points maybe? Again, they were dominant for stretches. The writing was on the wall, as they say. Now of course, Dirk coming back will help, but it just feels totally different. This cast, i just not very well put together fit-wise.

I'm an optimist, but i think our backcourt is the worst in the NBA, by far, and that's not our biggest problem. The biggest problem is, i think this team has zero chemistry. The championship Mavs team? I would argue they may had GOAT chemistry. This team has no chemistry, and they're one of the worst fits i've ever seen. They don't mash with each other at all. The talent-level is all right imo, but they just... Oh well, i guess i should have cut this post a lot shorter. I'm sorry, i just don't believe in those guys at all. I believe in Dirk, but not this team. Not this year. Of course i hope they're gonna prove me wrong, because every knows we ain't tanking. So we might as well win some games. Or a lot.

[sefant77]

So we tank, throw this year and one of the few left with Dirk and hope we dont get screwed in the lottery and pray for the luck that we draft a guy that is able to contribute big style in his rookie season (Irving/Wall level).

[markus1234]

tank mode

2008
2009
2010
2012
2013

(if you take Dirk out)

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by sefant77

So we tank, throw this year and one of the few left with Dirk and hope we dont get screwed in the lottery and pray for the luck that we draft a guy that is able to contribute big style in his rookie season (Irving/Wall level).

See, your post just implies that it is all about Dirk, and the team, and the team's future comes after him, and even if we would have a guy like Irving, it doesn't worth anything, if he can't immediately help Dirk win another championship. I mean, wouldn't be a good thing to have a guy like Irving to build around once Dirk retires? (let's just forget for a moment that we won't tank, and even if we would, chances are we wouldn't get a player like that, for the arguments' sake).

[CanadianMavsFan]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Not sure if serious. You're comparing a team featuring a younger Kidd, Terry, Marion, Barea coming off the bench, Chandler playing at dpoy level to the garbage that the mavs are throwing out there this year? Wow!

I'm of course not suggesting that this team is of the same quality. In fact you just reinforced my point with your little rant. Understanding how much better the 2011 team was than this team, you can appreciate even more the value of Dirk, because without him, even that team looked below average. If anything it should allow you to give this team some slack without him, because they are 7-9 without the best Maverick of all time.

Get it?

2011 Championship team: 2-7 without Dirk

2013 "Scrub" team: 7-9 without Dirk so far

This is my point. This team cannot be judged until the MVP returns.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

See, your post just implies that it is all about Dirk, and the team, and the team's future comes after him, and even if we would have a guy like Irving, it doesn't worth anything, if he can't immediately help Dirk win another championship. I mean, wouldn't be a good thing to have a guy like Irving to build around once Dirk retires? (let's just forget for a moment that we won't tank, and even if we would, chances are we wouldn't get a player like that, for the arguments' sake).

Its all about Dirk and the Dirk window....i give a f right now what happens post Dirk. probably we gonna suck anyway. Or we are stuck in mediocre with this Irving type player.

Win now until Dirk retires and then tear all down and tank a few seasons Thunder style...

[rabbitproof]

Irving is dope. Irving could fill in for Russ Westbrook in OKC just fine. But you need 2-3 Irvings to win.

Plus, if we hold Dirk out to tank, I will fantasy rage.

[Budapest Maverick]

There is no window with this roster. If you want a window, you need better talent. Again, there is two way for that, well three, but we have no significant trade assets whatsoever. Dirk is 34. There is no guarantee he can play even close to that level he played during the 2011 playoffs.

Let's be realistic, that was a Jordanesque run. During the last season, he himself suggested from this season, the ideal situation would be where he can play as a 2nd option. You know he's always realistic about his abilities. Last season, he wasn't nearly at that previous level.

And now he's almost 2 years older, and after a knee surgery. Who knows if he can even play at the level he played last season, never mind the championship run. He'll still be awesome, and better than 98% of the players in the league (he's still gonna be top 10), but chances are, he won't be able to win us games single handedly as often as he did in the past. Again, i don't think there is a window, and i'd argue if you see one, that's not necessarily real.

[Spurred1]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Btw I'm friggin pissed at Cuban and Co. Look at the Boston/Nets game. Tempers flaring, fists flying. True emotion. Look at this mavs team. We get punked on a nightly basis and not even so much as a wimper heard from us.

Sort of a dumb thought. Passion and emotion is fine...until it causes people to overreact-Rondo did absolutely nothing positive for his team by starting that scuffle-Hump fouled Garnett-Garnett's a big boy, he can handle Hump.
Rondo got himself suspended for two games, which hurt the Celtics.
The Boston/Nets game scuffle was an example of guys losing control of their emotions; when people lose control, bad things tend to happen.

[Murphy3]

Garnett's a pussy. I doubt he could handle Hump.

[sefant77]

Im 6-6 and i would fight KG if i could

Seriously, most of the SGs in the league could fight him easily, he is a pussy. Same goes with sucker puncher Carmella Anthony