GDT: Detroit vs Dallas, Dec. 1, 7:30 p.m. central - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

turin · 12-01-2012, 11:18 PM

Jekyll Hyde halves today. Much needed win. One more game closer to Dirk's return. :-)

nowhereman · 12-01-2012, 11:18 PM

Man. The Pistons suck.

sefant77 · 12-01-2012, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Man. The Pistons suck.

this.

But with another lucky lottery they gonna look good. Give Knight/Monroe/Drummond another year...thats a nice core

markus1234 · 12-01-2012, 11:23 PM

What did Rick say ?

tron#1 · 12-01-2012, 11:29 PM

OJMAYO!!!!!!

MrScottMcKenzie · 12-01-2012, 11:30 PM

Elton Brand was on point tonight. An impressive showing from the big man. Easily his best game for us. Was also awesome to see OJ Mayo get back to the form he was in earlier in the season. Hopefully we can build on that good second half.

MrScottMcKenzie · 12-01-2012, 11:31 PM

Also it was quite pleasing not to have to worry about Troy Murphy's soft defense.

spreedom · 12-02-2012, 12:31 AM

Watching OJ play when he has it going is tremendously exciting.

grndmstr_c · 12-02-2012, 01:29 AM

No GDT, eh? Well, overall, that was a pretty crappy Pistons team that showed up tonight, but I'll still take the win. Great efforts by Brand (both sides of the ball) and Mayo (stroking the three and attacking on the break) in the second half to bring it home. Nice to see Sarge get some good minutes, too, considering the occasion.

Can't not comment on Fish, this being his first game. Shot was definitely off. That may or may not get fixed, but it'd be great if it did. Watching these young guys running the point so much this year, his experience and IQ stood out even through the rust. One thing that I noticed on one play in particular was his screen setting. Can't remember the whole breakdown of the play, but the crux of it was that he set an elbow screen that freed up Marion for a catch in space and an easy finish at the basket. It was probably the single best pick I've seen a Maverick player set this year.

BGMaverick9 · 12-02-2012, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

What did Rick say ?

No comments in regard to the issue, but here's everything he said

What led to the win: “We got stops and we got in transition. Detroit was a tired team because they played a hard, physical game last night in Memphis. We struggled in the first half with shot making but we had a lot of good looks. We felt we just had to stay the course and do a better job rebounding. We started out well, hit a lull in the second quarter, and then picked it way up in the second half. That’s what got us the win; the ability to get stops and then get out in transition because they were doing a good job of locking up O.J. (Mayo) in the half-court stuff.”

Derek Fisher’s debut: “He ended up a significant plus in the game. It’s going to take some time for him to get his legs. I’ve been saying that all along. I liked when he and (Darren) Collison were together. I thought that was pretty productive lineup. He enhances our situation a lot of different ways. He gives us more options, and his experience, you just substitute what that means.”

Elton Brand’s performance: “This was a vintage game for him. For whatever reason, his shot-making has been up and down. He got into the flow of the game. He got into it and he affected it greatly on both ends. He had blocks and he had rebounds in traffic. He was hitting shots and making passes. It was really a big-time effort when we really needed it most. His effort was enormous.”

Bernard James’ performance on Seats for Soldiers night: “I thought (James) played really well off the bench. He gave us a lot of energy and ran the floor. It was fitting, given it was Seats For Soldiers night that he would have an impact like that. It was great.”

quoteboard up in the am

dude1394 · 12-02-2012, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

No GDT, eh? Well, overall, that was a pretty crappy Pistons team that showed up tonight, but I'll still take the win. Great efforts by Brand (both sides of the ball) and Mayo (stroking the three and attacking on the break) in the second half to bring it home. Nice to see Sarge get some good minutes, too, considering the occasion.

Can't not comment on Fish, this being his first game. Shot was definitely off. That may or may not get fixed, but it'd be great if it did. Watching these young guys running the point so much this year, his experience and IQ stood out even through the rust. One thing that I noticed on one play in particular was his screen setting. Can't remember the whole breakdown of the play, but the crux of it was that he set an elbow screen that freed up Marion for a catch in space and an easy finish at the basket. It was probably the single best pick I've seen a Maverick player set this year.

The other thing he did out there was battle. He was switched multiple times on bigger dudes and he battled em. He didn't just let them walk all over him.

lilojmayo · 12-02-2012, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Watching OJ play when he has it going is tremendously exciting.

He is extremely talented. but talent only gets you so far. He lacks something inside of him. i personally think it is a motor and the will to win against all odds.
Which prevents him from ever reaching his potential from a skillset aspect

NorwegianMavsFan · 12-02-2012, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

The other thing he did out there was battle. He was switched multiple times on bigger dudes and he battled em. He didn't just let them walk all over him.

One more thing is his ability to stay with his man on defense, and fight around/over/under screens. It is strange how much better Fish is at this than the much quicker Collison. I really liked Fisher out there. Everything felt calmer and more organized. When his shots start falling, he will fill some of the void left by Kidd.

LonghornDub · 12-02-2012, 12:48 PM

So RC's just gonna roll with this undersized PF thing instead of trying to further develop Wright?

Hey, I'm just glad Murphy's gone. Maybe I shouldn't get greedy.

BGMaverick9 · 12-02-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

So RC's just gonna roll with this undersized PF thing instead of trying to further develop Wright?

Hey, I'm just glad Murphy's gone. Maybe I shouldn't get greedy.

If Sarge and Brand can actually play well together like they did in spurts last night, hard to argue with it.

To me, if he's been hesitant to play Roddy over the years and we see what we see out of Roddy when he does play, I'm figuring there is a possibility we'll keep seeing the same things with Wright in regards to his issues.

Bayliss · 12-02-2012, 03:07 PM

Quote:

To me, if he's been hesitant to play Roddy over the years and we see what we see out of Roddy when he does play, I'm figuring there is a possibility we'll keep seeing the same things with Wright in regards to his issues.

If Wright could shoot 3s, he'd be getting more playing time. It really is as simple as that. Might as well trade him then instead of letting him walk next summer.

FINtastic · 12-02-2012, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

To me, if he's been hesitant to play Roddy over the years and we see what we see out of Roddy when he does play, I'm figuring there is a possibility we'll keep seeing the same things with Wright in regards to his issues.

Huh?

b_o_r · 12-02-2012, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Huh?

I think BG was taking a shot at the players inability to develop and/or the coaches inability to develop young players.

Bayliss · 12-02-2012, 04:03 PM

Well Nellie used to always say: players don't "become" good rebounders. Dirk was an exception to that rule but generally speaking he is right. Rebounding (or the ability to rebound) is one huge skill that translates from college to the pros. And most rebounders are already good rebounders when they come into the league. Passing/Shooting/Defense/Leadership/Pois (Crunchtime ability) all improve when you get into the league.

So if Carlisle wants Wright to be a better rebounder and will not trade him until he becomes one... the Mavs might as well get rid of Wright. Ironically though, Wright is just as good of a rebounder as the guys that Carlisle plays ahead of him.

b_o_r · 12-02-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Well Nellie used to always say: players don't "become" good rebounders. Dirk was an exception to that rule but generally speaking he is right. Rebounding (or the ability to rebound) is one huge skill that translates from college to the pros. And most rebounders are already good rebounders when they come into the league. Passing/Shooting/Defense/Leadership/Pois (Crunchtime ability) all improve when you get into the league.

So if Carlisle wants Wright to be a better rebounder and will not trade him until he becomes one... the Mavs might as well get rid of Wright. Ironically though, Wright is just as good of a rebounder as the guys that Carlisle plays ahead of him.

You, I, and everyone else knows that the reason he is not seeing action has little to do with rebounding. Yi Jianlian got into the games before Wright last year.

grndmstr_c · 12-02-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Ironically though, Wright is just as good of a rebounder as the guys that Carlisle plays ahead of him.

You mean Crowder and Murphy? Because everyone else who's played ahead of him at the 4 or 5 is a better rebounder than he is, and even Murphy was better on the defensive glass. That said, I think Sarge is probably the only guy who's earned minutes ahead of Brandan because of rebounding/physicality. With everyone else there are other factors figuring into the playing time.

markus1234 · 12-02-2012, 04:28 PM

The Wright love is hilarious. A couple of easy dunks and some people become blinded...

Kante · 12-02-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

The Wright love is hilarious. A couple of easy dunks and some people become blinded...

I can't remember many dunks Wright had this year so far. It seemed like he really worked on his offensive game and that worked out. 8.5 PPG on 65% shooting, and most of them weren't dunks.

Still don't get why he can't see minutes...

Bayliss · 12-02-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Still don't get why he can't see minutes...

Because he cannot hit the 3 ball. It isn't because of his (lack of ) rebounding.

Quote:

You mean Crowder and Murphy? Because everyone else who's played ahead of him at the 4 or 5 is a better rebounder than he is, and even Murphy was better on the defensive glass.

Include Carter in that group as well:

LonghornDub · 12-02-2012, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

The Wright love is hilarious. A couple of easy dunks and some people become blinded...

The fact that you think there's any "Wright love" in here is hilarious. There are people searching for a compelling justification as to why he doesn't play at all. I've yet to hear one. All I've heard are reasons why he's not a particularly good or well-rounded player. But let's not act like we have 10-12 good, well-rounded players on this roster.

markus1234 · 12-02-2012, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

There are people searching for a compelling justification as to why he doesn't play at all. I've yet to hear one.

- defense
- rebounding
- passing
- setting screens
- blocking out
- taking charges
- playing solid "under control" BB (right tempo, little things, executing Rick's plays)
- creating his own shot

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

All I've heard are reasons why he's not a particularly good or well-rounded player. But let's not act like we have 10-12 good, well-rounded players on this roster.

- Carter
- Marion
- Kaman
- Brand
- James
- Crowder

That's more than enough alternatives at PF and C

Wright is a good (wide open-) shooter and a good dunker. Do we need/miss that ? No.

Gotta trust Rick. We are not in the gym during practices and fim sessions.

LonghornDub · 12-02-2012, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

- defense
- rebounding
- passing
- setting screens
- blocking out
- taking charges
- playing solid "under control" BB (right tempo, little things, executing Rick's plays)
- creating his own shot

Rebounding and blocking out (I love how you list these separately) are obvious issues. Defense too. The others are unquantifiable nonsense. And the shot-creation one is completely wrong. Wright's a more-than-adequate shot-creator for a 5-10 mpg backup PF.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

- Carter
- Marion
- Kaman
- Brand
- James
- Crowder

That's more than enough alternatives at PF and C

That you list 6'6" Carter as a viable alternative at PF pretty much tells me all I need to know. Rick may play him there, but I consider him nothing near "viable" at the 4.

Nor was Murphy a viable alternative, yet he consistently played over Wright.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

Gotta trust Rick. We are not in the gym during practices and fim sessions.

I do trust Rick. I trust him plenty. He's a terrific coach. But terrific coaches make mistakes, just like terrific doctors, terrific lawyers, terrific accountants, or terrific engineers. Not playing Wright at all is a mistake.

And the even bigger mistake is not trading him if Rick's not going to play him at all.

LonghornDub · 12-02-2012, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Because he cannot hit the 3 ball. It isn't because of his (lack of ) rebounding.

His rebounding absolutely plays into it, but I'm inclined to agree that Rick generally feels out of his comfort zone playing 4s that can't stretch the defense.

grndmstr_c · 12-02-2012, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Include Carter in that group as well:

Carter's played maybe 5 minutes of PF all year. I don't really include him in the list of players taking rotation minutes from Brandan.

Bayliss · 12-02-2012, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Carter's played maybe 5 minutes of PF all year. I don't really include him in the list of players taking rotation minutes from Brandan.

Well, 82games.com says he has played 1% of his minutes at PF. Since he has played nearly 400 minutes already this season, it is a lot more than 5 minutes. It is somewhere along the lines of 40 minutes at PF. And with the loss of Murphy that number will be bumped up more as well.

grndmstr_c · 12-02-2012, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Well, 82games.com says he has played 1% of his minutes at PF. Since he has played nearly 400 minutes already this season, it is a lot more than 5 minutes. It is somewhere along the lines of 40 minutes at PF. And with the loss of Murphy that number will be bumped up more as well.

The last part is just speculation, which received zero support from last night's game, and completely ignores the fact that Dirk could be back in a couple weeks. As for the 1% bit, that's a percentage of total team minutes, not Vince's minutes. Compare the "Net Pts" and "Net48" columns and you'll see that the 5 minute figure is roughly accurate (as of Nov. 25th; and with the possible exception of a few seconds here or there in a situation sub that I'm not accounting for, it doesn't look to me like he's played any PF since then.)

Bayliss · 12-02-2012, 06:52 PM

If crowder and vince arw on the court together... who is playing what position? I know ive seen both out there several times the last few games wirh dantay or mayo as the sg.

grndmstr_c · 12-02-2012, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

If crowder and vince arw on the court together... who is playing what position? I know ive seen both out there several times the last few games wirh dantay or mayo as the sg.

I'd say Crowder, and that's how 82games tracks it.

Kante · 12-02-2012, 07:03 PM

Isn't 1 percentage from 400, 4? Just curious...

But Carter at the PF is just not right, i just saw him twice this year playing there and that very little!

markus1234 · 12-02-2012, 07:18 PM

The F combination of

Crowder-VC
VC-Marioin
Marion-Crowder

can stretch the floor and let Kaman/Brand/James operate at C. Wright simply can't do that.

Bayliss · 12-02-2012, 07:34 PM

Yet when crowder and carter are together carter takes the pf on defense nearly everytime. Seems strange to say he aint playing pf.

grndmstr_c · 12-02-2012, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Yet when crowder and carter are together carter takes the pf on defense nearly everytime. Seems strange to say he aint playing pf.

Not really. Defensive cross-matches aren't unheard of even when Dirk's out there, Vince has been a 2/3 in the league for years, and Jae was projected as a tweener forward coming into the league. The stability of Vince's place in the rotation, the role he plays on offense, and the fact that Jae's rebounding numbers vary in concert with his listed position are also all consistent with Jae having been called on to play PF in those lineups.

sike · 12-02-2012, 11:56 PM

Nice to see Brand getting his game back. He has looked solid recently.

BGMaverick9 · 12-02-2012, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Nice to see Brand getting his game back. He has looked solid recently.

He's still peeved about minutes. If he plays like this, it won't be an issue.

sike · 12-03-2012, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

He's still peeved about minutes. If he plays like this, it won't be an issue.

Yeah, that came across in his postgame interview with Skin. He mentioned getting minutes multiple times.