GDT: Detroit vs Dallas, Dec. 1, 7:30 p.m. central

[dude1394]

Play better. Roddy, Elton, collison, wright...play better.

I wanted to kill Elton in the first half before he got some confidence going. He was passing up shots left and right. Finally began to pass, drive or shoot it. Just go..

[j0Shi]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Not playing Wright at all is a mistake.

This. The rebounding issue is somewhat overrated. Wright surely should be able to rebound a lot better with his size, but Murphy never rebounded better than him and neither do Carter or Crowder.

I absolutely think that when a player A (Wright) is so much better than player B (Murphy) you have to be able to adjust your system in a way that allows player A to get playing time. Everything else is just laughable. I'd rather lose games but stretch the floor accordingly instead of winning? C'mon now...

[EricaLubarsky]

With Dirk out, it shoudl only come down to only one criterion: are we winning and Wright was a net benefit for us. I don't care about rebound differential, defensive FG% or any other stat. I just care that we were a better team with Wright playing. '

We scored more points and we scored 9% more efficiently with him on the floor.

He has an extremely underrated toolbox of offensive tools. He probes offenses, moves well without the ball to keep defenses jumbled, slashes, shoots, and spreads the floor. Murphy kept one defender from helping defensively. Wright causes defensive panic and mismatches. Without Wright we see defenses get comfortable and clamp down so guys like Collison have a hard time shaking anyone. Confusing defenses is a valuable and underrated skill when you don't have a superstar out there. Hopefully Dirk will be back in a week or two, but until then, it's a travesty that Wright doesnt get any burn.

[grndmstr_c]

Travesty? That's somewhat excessive.

Everyone still seems to be overlooking the fact that Rick is almost certainly thinking beyond the next game in this and considering how the work that Dallas does now will translate once Dirk is back. He's on record as saying that playing Brandan at PF would require them to adjust their offensive approach, and I assume there's no disagreement on that point. It's seems to me pretty obvious that there are going to be costs for the longer term development of this squad that would result from making, and devoting practice time and in-game experience to those kinds of adjustments. That's not to say that the calculus of all this isn't debatable, but even that is largely true because this is a considerably more complicated issue than what most of the critics are making it out to be.

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Travesty? That's somewhat excessive.

Everyone still seems to be overlooking the fact that Rick is almost certainly thinking beyond the next game in this and considering how the work that Dallas does now will translate once Dirk is back. He's on record as saying that playing Brandan at PF would require them to adjust their offensive approach, and I assume there's no disagreement on that point. It's seems to me pretty obvious that there are going to be costs for the longer term development of this squad that would result from making, and devoting practice time and in-game experience to those kinds of adjustments. That's not to say that the calculus of all this isn't debatable, but even that is largely true because this is a considerably more complicated issue than what most of the critics are making it out to be.

Good post. I didnt know that RC said that but that certainly explains why he isnt getting any PF minutes. As far as C minutes, it means he is, at best, competing with Sarge for the 3rd C behind Brand and Kaman.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Rick hasn't really played Wright at pf since we got him. I'm quite positive that won't change on the eve of getting Uber back. Fans can complain until they are blue in the face, but it ain't happening.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

With Dirk out, it shoudl only come down to only one criterion: are we winning and Wright was a net benefit for us. I don't care about rebound differential, defensive FG% or any other stat. I just care that we were a better team with Wright playing. '

We scored more points and we scored 9% more efficiently with him on the floor.

He has an extremely underrated toolbox of offensive tools. He probes offenses, moves well without the ball to keep defenses jumbled, slashes, shoots, and spreads the floor. Murphy kept one defender from helping defensively. Wright causes defensive panic and mismatches. Without Wright we see defenses get comfortable and clamp down so guys like Collison have a hard time shaking anyone. Confusing defenses is a valuable and underrated skill when you don't have a superstar out there. Hopefully Dirk will be back in a week or two, but until then, it's a travesty that Wright doesnt get any burn.

I thought our hot shooting had a lot more to do with it than wright by a long shot.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Travesty? That's somewhat excessive.

Everyone still seems to be overlooking the fact that Rick is almost certainly thinking beyond the next game in this and considering how the work that Dallas does now will translate once Dirk is back. He's on record as saying that playing Brandan at PF would require them to adjust their offensive approach, and I assume there's no disagreement on that point. It's seems to me pretty obvious that there are going to be costs for the longer term development of this squad that would result from making, and devoting practice time and in-game experience to those kinds of adjustments. That's not to say that the calculus of all this isn't debatable, but even that is largely true because this is a considerably more complicated issue than what most of the critics are making it out to be.

Would it really though? The vast majority of dorks offense comes from 17 feet and in. Wright has been pretty darn good at hitting those this year. Dirk hasnt really been a 3 point bomber in a long time.

And honestly he's competing with Marion as a 4 vs a 3 for a lot of those minutes and Marion isn't exactly a sharpshooter

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

This. The rebounding issue is somewhat overrated. Wright surely should be able to rebound a lot better with his size, but Murphy never rebounded better than him and neither do Carter or Crowder.

I absolutely think that when a player A (Wright) is so much better than player B (Murphy) you have to be able to adjust your system in a way that allows player A to get playing time. Everything else is just laughable. I'd rather lose games but stretch the floor accordingly instead of winning? C'mon now...

Well, we see what happened to Murphy. Wright has to be able to rebound. If he can't, he doesn't need to be on the floor.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Travesty? That's somewhat excessive.

Everyone still seems to be overlooking the fact that Rick is almost certainly thinking beyond the next game in this and considering how the work that Dallas does now will translate once Dirk is back. He's on record as saying that playing Brandan at PF would require them to adjust their offensive approach, and I assume there's no disagreement on that point. It's seems to me pretty obvious that there are going to be costs for the longer term development of this squad that would result from making, and devoting practice time and in-game experience to those kinds of adjustments. That's not to say that the calculus of all this isn't debatable, but even that is largely true because this is a considerably more complicated issue than what most of the critics are making it out to be.

I think that's all correct, but even still, Wright playing a little bit wouldn't throw anything out of whack. Dirk isn't going to play 48 a game once he gets back, so there will have to be a "Dirk-less" philosophy to the offensive approach even then.

And I can't speak for anyone else, but what I'm hoping for is pretty minimal. I'd like to see just a few minutes a game for Wright. I don't need him to start and play 25-30. I don't think leaving him on the bench versus playing him for 5-10 minutes is "preserving" the offense.

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Well, we see what happened to Murphy. Wright has to be able to rebound. If he can't, he doesn't need to be on the floor.

The difference is that Murphy doesn't do anything else well. Wright does.

Also, Murphy was playing more than I even expect Wright to. I'd like to see 5-10 per game out of Wright, mostly at PF. That's it. I haven't averaged out the numbers, but I know Murphy played 14 minutes in one of his last games, and 17 minutes in another. That's too much for a guy like that.

[Rick Carlisle]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Would it really though? The vast majority of dorks offense comes from 17 feet and in.

Uncalled for.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Rick Carlisle

Uncalled for.

Your rep-to-post count ratio is inhuman.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

With Dirk out, it shoudl only come down to only one criterion: are we winning and Wright was a net benefit for us. I don't care about rebound differential, defensive FG% or any other stat. I just care that we were a better team with Wright playing. '

We scored more points and we scored 9% more efficiently with him on the floor.

Just think about what you are saying, for a moment. A 9% improvement in FG% is probably Lebron, MJ category. The other day during our game they put up our stats with Dirk, and without him in the last i don't know, 8 years maybe, and if i remember correctly, without him our offensive FG% dipped like 5%. Somebody correct me if i'm wrong, please.

Obviously, you are not implying Wright is that kind of impact player. But then why bring this number up? It's a tiny sample size, and Wright is not that good. He may be a net positive overall, but the jury is out even on that one.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Just think about what you are saying, for a moment. A 9% improvement in FG% is probably Lebron, MJ category. The other day during our game they put up our stats with Dirk, and without him in the last i don't know, 8 years maybe, and if i remember correctly, without him our offensive FG% dipped like 5%. Somebody correct me if i'm wrong, please.

Obviously, you are not implying Wright is that kind of impact player. But then why bring this number up? It's a tiny sample size, and Wright is not that good. He may be a net positive overall, but the jury is out even on that one.

It's 9% better on PP100 with an admittedly minuscule sample size, but last year-- with Dirk healthy-- he helped the offense be 3% more efficient and was a net positive last year as well. I'd say that the inflated PP100 impact is overstated, but because it's backed by a previous season in which we saw the same kind of impact (albeit a more muted one), I'd say that it's an important stat to talk about. +/-, Net PER, and team PP100 all point to the fact that he should at least be given a chance.

Between 12 games this year that paint him as an amazing player and 49 games last year that paint him as a very good player, I'd say that the jury would be stupid to be out. He's been a net positive in every year in Dallas and now he can't even see the floor. 61 games is hardly a tiny sample size, and with Dirk out and other guys playing erratically, I'd say that there is room for Wright to come in. Otherwise, why not just release him and let him prove his skills with another team? We're down Dirk and our only backup C is a rook and our only backup PFs are playing out of position. If there was a time to play him, it would be right now.

I'm not saying he should be our starter or that he should even average 15-20mpg, but it's ridiculous that he can't see action when A) he proved that he can play 2) he proved that he helps the team and c) we are getting blown out by 20-30 pts. 5-10mpg for a guy that has been in the top 3 in +/- two straight years with us? I don't think that is too much to ask.

[SMC0007]

Consistently failing at practice somehow.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I think that's all correct, but even still, Wright playing a little bit wouldn't throw anything out of whack. Dirk isn't going to play 48 a game once he gets back, so there will have to be a "Dirk-less" philosophy to the offensive approach even then.

To some extent that's true, but with Shawn and Elton (and possibly Jae), it won't need to be a Wright-friendly philosophy.

And I can't speak for anyone else, but what I'm hoping for is pretty minimal. I'd like to see just a few minutes a game for Wright. I don't need him to start and play 25-30. I don't think leaving him on the bench versus playing him for 5-10 minutes is "preserving" the offense.

It's worth pointing out that he would be getting 5-10 minutes if Sarge hadn't been beating him out for backup center minutes recently. I know you talked about PF later in your post, but that just appears to be a lost cause; and the fact remains, it's not just the PF position where Brandan is getting clipped. I guess maybe look on the bright side: a non-trivial portion of the minutes that Brandan isn't getting are at least going to a couple young guys (Jae and Sarge). It's not all going to vets.

The difference is that Murphy doesn't do anything else well. Wright does.

I'm not sure the coaching staff would agree here. For example, I remember seeing a quote praising Troy's pick and roll defense (I watched him some myself and definitely thought I saw what they were referring to). Troy was also making a bigger impact on the defensive boards than Brandan, even if the overall rebounding numbers were the same. Given how bad this team has looked in those two areas for most of this season, I expect those were major factors in determining his claim on a rotation spot.

Also, Murphy was playing more than I even expect Wright to. I'd like to see 5-10 per game out of Wright, mostly at PF. That's it. I haven't averaged out the numbers, but I know Murphy played 14 minutes in one of his last games, and 17 minutes in another. That's too much for a guy like that.

Minutes always get out of whack when you've got injuries. And Troy played 16 mpg last year, so the 18 mpg he got in Dallas doesn't look all that out of whack to me.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

To some extent that's true, but with Shawn and Elton (and possibly Jae), it won't need to be a Wright-friendly philosophy.


It's worth pointing out that he would be getting 5-10 minutes if Sarge hadn't been beating him out for backup center minutes recently. I know you talked about PF later in your post, but that just appears to be a lost cause; and the fact remains, it's not just the PF position where Brandan is getting clipped. I guess maybe look on the bright side: a non-trivial portion of the minutes that Brandan isn't getting are at least going to a couple young guys (Jae and Sarge). It's not all going to vets.

Yeah, I'm really only talking about PF, and that it's a "lost cause" is exactly what troubles me.

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I'm not sure the coaching staff would agree here. For example, I remember seeing a quote praising Troy's pick and roll defense (I watched him some myself and definitely thought I saw what they were referring to). Troy was also making a bigger impact on the defensive boards than Brandan, even if the overall rebounding numbers were the same. Given how bad this team has looked in those two areas for most of this season, I expect those were major factors in determining his claim on a rotation spot.

There were a couple times I thought Murphy did fine in PNR defense. I even used the word "savvy" to describe him in that area once with regard to a particular game. But on the whole, I wasn't very impressed. And the numbers really don't bear out that he does anything much better (if at all) than Wright.

There's also a strategic element to this. What kind of team are the Mavs right now? They're not a contender. Even if we believe that Murphy (for instance) was actually better than Wright, he clearly has less upside. There is significantly more to be gained from giving Wright a bit more PT, whether that's his own development or just boosting his trade value.

In other words, even if I give Murphy the benefit of the doubt in every area, I still seriously question whether he should have played over Wright at this point in a Mavs' season that clearly isn't "championship or bust."

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

There's also a strategic element to this. What kind of team are the Mavs right now? They're not a contender. Even if we believe that Murphy (for instance) was actually better than Wright, he clearly has less upside. There is significantly more to be gained from giving Wright a bit more PT, whether that's his own development or just boosting his trade value.

In other words, even if I give Murphy the benefit of the doubt in every area, I still seriously question whether he should have played over Wright at this point in a Mavs' season that clearly isn't "championship or bust."

But again, don't the Mavs have a number of players, not just Wright, who they need to get reads on, develop, and build up their value? Jae and Sarge playing ahead of Brandan in the rotation clearly fits that bill. And if having Murphy out there provided an opportunity for DC and OJ to get game experience - and for their coaching staff to evaluate their performance - running plays and working out of sets that the team will rely on heavily when Dirk gets back, isn't that also serving developmental purposes (of an arguably higher priority)?

[Five-ofan]

The dorks instead of dirks thing was simply my phone autocorrecting

[SMC0007]

GDT?!