David Lee

[minkbarn]

Originally Posted by yahyes

I wouldn't see him be inserted big minutes right away. He would have a good situation here. We play Dwight Powell off and on. Depending how well he plays. I can see David Lee try to clean it up if Powell isn't doing much. On spreading the court, I would like to see what Carlisle can do to bring David Lee back to form.

Ok. I warned you. I tried. How I tried to do a good honest thing.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by minkbarn

Ok. I warned you. I tried. How I tried to do a good honest thing.

He just didn't fit in boston. He can have good situation here. Mavs flow better through offense once awaken.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Good. Not better than Parsons or Dirk, but better than Charlie and may play better than Powell. Now let's see him play 30 min of center a night while McGee and Mejri see DNPs

This is exactly my worry with Lee. Would like us to have a true Center on the floor most of the time- matchup dependent of course.

i think I too would rather see Powell get steady minutes at the 4 with the occasional Parsons small ball lineup.

Lee did play some important and high quality minutes for GSW in the finals last season so maybe in the right system, right lineups and usage he can recapture some of that? Hate to see this team become even less athletic upfront with a decrease in Powell's and possibly McGee and Meirji minutes.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I seem him used like Dejuan Blair was...which means he'll likely get a good amount of minutes.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Good. Not better than Parsons or Dirk, but better than Charlie and may play better than Powell. Now let's see him play 30 min of center a night while McGee and Mejri see DNPs

That's exactly what RC will do. It seems that he does not value rim protection. He would play Zaza the whole game if he could and Zaza provides no rim protection.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by DGM

That's exactly what RC will do. It seems that he does not value rim protection. He would play Zaza the whole game if he could and Zaza provides no rim protection.

Rick likes smart players on the floor. That's why people shouldn't be puzzled when McGee gets DNPs.

[Skywalker]

Yuck. He's done.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Rick likes smart players on the floor. That's why people shouldn't be puzzled when McGee gets DNPs.

Rick's "smart" team provided no defense at the rim in the 4th quarter and overtime. Oladipo went by Zaza like he was nailed to the floor.

[rimrocker]

Erica is right, if we bring Lee in it will be strictly to play center. Rick will never play less than four 3pt threats at the same time....that should be obvious to everyone by now.

There's a serious system flaw when your starting center has 19 rebounds and the team as a whole gets out rebounded by 18. This has become a trend and probably why our starting centers (Tyson/Zaza) in the recent past have had near career numbers here. I get the whole stretch 4 concept but it's time to rethink this thing and maybe try some conventional lineups. One offensive rebound might have made the difference in each of the past 2 games.

[Melonhead]

I think Lee will get a mix of 4 and 5. Dirk needs the rest. Hes averaging 1.5 min more per game than last season at the moment.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I think Lee will get a mix of 4 and 5. Dirk needs the rest. Hes averaging 1.5 min more per game than last season at the moment.

Agree Dirk needs rest but Rick will move Parsons to the 4 or play Charlie before he'd play Lee along with any of our centers. He's basically done that with Powell and I see Lee as a more seasoned version of Powell.

[Underdog]

@ShamsCharania: David Lee is expected to sign with Dallas for the room exception of $2.1 million once he clears waivers, league sources tell The Vertical.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

He did this to the Rockets 2 seasons ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsiUHulqIjA

[Thebo]

I really hope he will get more time at 4 but I honestly think Rick is going to use him like Zaza. Mavs just should try to change things up and create a system where they can also play without stretch-4 guy. It would make preparations against Mavs harder but for that to happen, Matthews has to start hitting his shots.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I'm not really sure why so many people are under the impression that we have some grand options at the backup 5 position. I had hopes that Mejri and McGee could hold down the fort as backups, but they just aren't that good. McGee is dumb, and Mejri is inexperienced at an NBA level. Yes, they provide some rim protection, but it sometimes doesn't matter how big and athletic you are if you don't have talent and/or smarts.

Playing Lee at the 5 is pretty much a given, and the way things are going, hey, it couldn't hurt to try it. Mavs have so many issues with defense, offense, and rebounding that him not being a rim protector doesn't mean as much since the team is nowhere near contention. He can help with the offense and rebounding though if he isn't too washed up.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'm not really sure why so many people are under the impression that we have some grand options at the backup 5 position. I had hopes that Mejri and McGee could hold down the fort as backups, but they just aren't that good. McGee is dumb, and Mejri is inexperienced at an NBA level. Yes, they provide some rim protection, but it sometimes doesn't matter how big and athletic you are if you don't have talent and/or smarts.

Playing Lee at the 5 is pretty much a given, and the way things are going, hey, it couldn't hurt to try it. Mavs have so many issues with defense, offense, and rebounding that him not being a rim protector doesn't mean as much since the team is nowhere near contention. He can help with the offense and rebounding though if he isn't too washed up.

If Lee and Zaza are your 5 men get used to losing like RC's "smart" team lost last night. Teams will go to the hoop with impunity and rain threes from inside out. I hope that you enjoy those games. I won't.

[minkbarn]

Please do not get your hopes up with David Lee.

He killed the Celtics chemistry no matter who he played with. The team was immediately and dramatically better as soon as he was benched. He was THE cause of many losses. They were SO much better when he stopped playing. That's when they won.

He just can't get his shot off any more inside. Opposing teams score easily when he is in the game.

The team was instantly improved by a wide margin by playing Jerebko and Zeller over Lee. No D. Empty stats. His shot will be blocked many times leading to opponent fast breaks.

This is not going to end well for the Mavs.

He's done.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by minkbarn

Please do not get your hopes up with David Lee.

He killed the Celtics chemistry no matter who he played with. The team was immediately and dramatically better as soon as he was benched. He was THE cause of many losses. They were SO much better when he stopped playing. That's when they won.

He just can't get his shot off any more inside. Opposing teams score easily when he is in the game.

The team was instantly improved by a wide margin by playing Jerebko and Zeller over Lee. No D. Empty stats. His shot will be blocked many times leading to opponent fast breaks.

This is not going to end well for the Mavs.

He's done.

We're Mavs fans. What else are we going to do? This season has been getting worse by the month.

[minkbarn]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

We're Mavs fans. What else are we going to do?

The Mavs will be fine. It's a great organization with uniquely competitive ownership.

The franchise is probably entering a transitional period, but they'll find their way. They've carved themselves a good place in the league and in the minds of players.

That's a good place to be for the long haul.

[DGM]

It might be ugly but I'll still be rooting for the Mavs.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by DGM

It might be ugly but I'll still be rooting for the Mavs.

Same here but it is brutal to watch Rick keep throwing more offense at our problems while compromising other aspects of our game.
Not necessary blaming Rick but he just doesn't have the personnel for his system.

The problem is the more I watch this go on, the more I want Dwight Howard on this team next season (did I just say that?). The dude would probably average 25 RPG in Rick's system.

As it stands right now with a rotation of Zaza/Dirk/Lee/Parsons in our frontcourt we will get punished beyond belief in the paint.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by minkbarn

The Mavs will be fine. It's a great organization with uniquely competitive ownership.

The problem is that Cuban is running out of options for staying competitive.
I think Donnie and Mark are doing well at piecing together a team year after year but that strategy is causing this team to trend downward and will continue until Dirk retires.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by DGM

If Lee and Zaza are your 5 men get used to losing like RC's "smart" team lost last night. Teams will go to the hoop with impunity and rain threes from inside out. I hope that you enjoy those games. I won't.

Even a good rim protector can't fix the defense. We had Tyson last season, and he couldn't cover up for everyone else. The talent simply isn't there.

I think Matthews and Harris are the team's best defenders followed by Pachulia's decent man defense aaaaand? Not one elite defender on the team and not even sure we have very good ones either. Mediocre-good at best.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by minkbarn

This is not going to end well for the Mavs.

It wasn't going to end well for the Mavs anyway -- I don't see any harm in trading out someone who doesn't play for David Lee... Plus, a little new blood might do wonders for this team (and if it doesn't, well, it's not like we were contending for a ring anyway...)

I see this as a low-risk, low-reward move.

[dirt_dobber]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I see this as a low-risk, low-reward move.

+1
Lee has good bbiq could spell both ZaZa and Dirk.
Was Donovan the coach at Florida when Lee played there?

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I see this as a low-risk, low-reward move.

I see this as Amare all over again but this time with no option for rim protection in the frontcourt rotation.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I see this as Amare all over again but this time with no option for rim protection in the frontcourt rotation.

So?

[DGM]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Even a good rim protector can't fix the defense. We had Tyson last season, and he couldn't cover up for everyone else. The talent simply isn't there.

I think Matthews and Harris are the team's best defenders followed by Pachulia's decent man defense aaaaand? Not one elite defender on the team and not even sure we have very good ones either. Mediocre-good at best.

Zeebo would probably refer to McGee as an elite defender.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by Underdog

It wasn't going to end well for the Mavs anyway -- I don't see any harm in trading out someone who doesn't play for David Lee... Plus, a little new blood might do wonders for this team (and if it doesn't, well, it's not like we were contending for a ring anyway...)

I see this as a low-risk, low-reward move.

I see it as high risk/low reward. That $2.1 million could have been used for Joe Johnson (if he is bought out). Mavs need a 2/3 more than a 4/5. If we had a player like Johnson Wes could play his natural position and we could have one smurf on the court at a time.

By the way, I hate that f'ing substitution of Felton for Dirk. This team has been badly managed in 16.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DGM

I see it as high risk/low reward. That $2.1 million could have been used for Joe Johnson (if he is bought out). Mavs need a 2/3 more than a 4/5. If we had a player like Johnson Wes could play his natural position and we could have one smurf on the court at a time.

By the way, I hate that f'ing substitution of Felton for Dirk. This team has been badly managed in 16.

So what's the risk?

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Same here but it is brutal to watch Rick keep throwing more offense at our problems while compromising other aspects of our game.
Not necessary blaming Rick but he just doesn't have the personnel for his system.

The problem is the more I watch this go on, the more I want Dwight Howard on this team next season (did I just say that?). The dude would probably average 25 RPG in Rick's system.

As it stands right now with a rotation of Zaza/Dirk/Lee/Parsons in our frontcourt we will get punished beyond belief in the paint.

Totally. I've been a little hot and cold on the prospect of signing Dwight this summer. While I don't think he's going to have 10-12 teams knocking on his door at midnight when free agency starts, I do think the Mavs are one of the handful of teams that makes a lot of sense as a suitor. Not only is this a veteran locker room, but we have the best training staff in the league, one of the top two or three coaches, and possibly the most glaring need at center among all of the hopeful title contenders over the next few years. Yes, signing Dwight most likely means paying him his max (I believe it would be somewhere around $30M/year and about $140M total over four), but what's the alternative? Let's compare/contrast:
Al Horford - He's going to have his pick among potential suitors. He's the same age as Dwight, though with considerably lower mileage (18k total career minutes vs. about 30k for Dwight). He seems like more of a 2016 prototypical center since he is a much better shooter and passer. I don't see him as being as dynamic or dominant as a healthy Dwight, but he's so consistent. I'd love to sign him but there are a bunch of teams in front of us in my view.
Hassan Whiteside - I like him a lot on the stat sheet but Miami is demonstrably better defensively without him and he has some huge character red flags that make me really uncomfortable. He's only 26 so he might be the best long-term bet, but I don't have a ton of faith in his ability to carry a defense. I don't think he has as many suitors as Horford but he's still somebody we'd have a lot of competition for. I could talk myself into him.
Joakim Noah - He's my second choice among players I think we have a realistic chance at signing. I do have some big concerns with his recent string of injuries, but I think the market is going to be pretty soft for him and I have a lot of faith in our training staff. He would be one of those guys that we'd have to sign with a very solid plan B in mind though.
The rest of the guys - This includes RFAs like Drummond and Gobert, as well as the more borderline starting-caliber guys: Ezeli, Biyombo, Hibbert, Mahinmi, Mozgov... all good players, but with limitations that prevent them from being franchise centers.

If it was me, I'd overpay for the guy that's the best fit next to Dirk and that we have a good chance at signing. To be honest, you have to overpay for most worthwhile free agents. And after the top tier of UFAs, there's a huge drop off.

EDIT: Updated likely contract figures for Dwight, what he's eligible for as a 10-year veteran and the cap expected to rise to about $92M this summer:

If Howard decides to leave his current team and join a new one, he loses out on the fifth year and can only receive a 4.5 percent raise, but still puts himself in line for a really big bump:

2016-17 Year 1 max for 10+ years of service time $30,328,744
4.5% raise $1,364,793
Year 2 (Year 1 + raise) $31,693,537
Year 3 (Year 2 + raise) $34,423,124
Year 4 (Year 3 + raise) $34,423,124
Total new contract value $129,503,737

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...193429628.html

So over the four years, it's actually less than I thought. I think it's likely that Dwight will have enough suitors that whoever lands him is going to have to pay the max, but depending how this season ends there's a chance he might be available for less than that.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by Underdog

So what's the risk?

The money has been spent on Lee. It's gone

[Bryan_Wilson]

My only issue with DH12(outside the obvious mental midget aspect) is his refusal to be PnR heavy. I've been reading for years how he doesn't want to be "just a PnR guy". It depends on how heavily he wants to be featured in an offense. If he could accept a role where he is primarily PnR with just some post ups he's my number one choice. I also don't think he's getting the max. With the NBA trending to small ball and DH12 not being as mobile of a defender as well as not having the same kind of bounce to his game(and his injuries taking their toll). It's just my opinion that he wouldn't get a max offer from a place he would want to be. It only takes one team giving him the max but that one team would also have to be a place DH12 would be happy. He seems more like a guy who wants to be happy and paid rather than just paid. I haven't watched him enough this season to see what his lateral quickness is like but our defense currently is hurt by our perimeter defenders sagging off to help protect the paint, leaving wide open 3's all game long. If DH12 has the mobility to just adequately police the paint with minimal assistance for the remainder of Dirks window then I'll take him, if not then I guess I'd explore the options of someone like Noah as a reclamation project. I think I'd even be "ok" with looking at someone like Mozgov or kicking the tires of Mahinmi. But given our luck of going from Plan A and ending up at plan C-D I'm also prepared to be disappointed and see someone like Al Jefferson(terrible fit with Dirk) or Hibbert and continue to see wide open 3's by helping out in the paint.

At least there seems to be enough big men out there that even in a worst case scenario type situation we could get a serviceable platoon and maintain the usual 6-8th seed and try to make Dirk's last few years as competitive as we can.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by DGM

I see it as high risk/low reward. That $2.1 million could have been used for Joe Johnson (if he is bought out). Mavs need a 2/3 more than a 4/5. If we had a player like Johnson Wes could play his natural position and we could have one smurf on the court at a time.

By the way, I hate that f'ing substitution of Felton for Dirk. This team has been badly managed in 16.

Rumors are that Johnson won't be bought out. You can't hope for something that hasn't happened. You gotta get while the getting is good, and Lee is a reasonably good buyout player. If he was an amazing rim protecting center, then he wouldn't be available. Buyout players usually aren't the cream of the crop.

He might be a bit washed up now, but the guy was the starting PF for the Warriors averaging 18/9 just two seasons ago.

[Murphy3]

I really don't think he's washed up. The last two years, I don't think GS would make any center/pf's numbers look all that good unless they were sitting out beyond the arc

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DGM

The money has been spent on Lee. It's gone

Sorry, but there's nothing "high risk" about a $2.1m deal for a half-season rental that doesn't affect next year's cap whatsoever... Like, if you don't have some theory about how he's going to be a locker room cancer that drives Parsons out of Dallas and forces Dirk to retire, then you don't have much of an argument to make here. This is as low-risk a move as you're going to find in the NBA.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Sorry, but there's nothing "high risk" about a $2.1m deal for a half-season rental that doesn't affect next year's cap whatsoever... Like, if you don't have some theory about how he's going to be a locker room cancer that drives Parsons out of Dallas and forces Dirk to retire, then you don't have much of an argument to make here. This is as low-risk a move as you're going to find in the NBA.

It's high risk if it cost a shot at Johnson.

Also I'd prefer to see RC play Powell at power forward as Dirk's backup. Powell should be coming in the game when Dirk sits.

I also think that RC has not given McGee a fair shot to help the team. I did not see any reason for him to be sent to the end of the bench. With Lee here we have probably seen the last of McGee. Based on the way RC deals with him I expect to see him released when Lee is added. I happen to like having a big shot blocker to shore uo the defense. RC wants to try to win with offense because that's all Lee brings.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by DGM

It's high risk if it cost a shot at Johnson.

Also I'd prefer to see RC play Powell at power forward as Dirk's backup. Powell should be coming in the game when Dirk sits.

I also think that RC has not given McGee a fair shot to help the team. I did not see any reason for him to be sent to the end of the bench. With Lee here we have probably seen the last of McGee. Based on the way RC deals with him I expect to see him released when Lee is added. I happen to like having a big shot blocker to shore uo the defense. RC wants to try to win with offense because that's all Lee brings.

I agree with you and UD. It's a pretty low risk move as per UD.
But I too would rather see Powell as primary backup PF and McGee at backup Center. I like the p'n'r thing they had developing with Parsons, Harris or JJ with McGee. What happened to that?

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

If he was an amazing rim protecting center, then he wouldn't be available. Buyout players usually aren't the cream of the crop.

But he will keep a rim protector off the court which will compound a problem we already have. I was pissed when RC was replacing Zaza with Powell and now McGee and Mejri will be 4 and 5 on our center depth chart.

[BPo001]

We all knew this was coming, but:

Dwain Price: David Lee clears waivers at 4 today and will sign with the #Mavs shortly thereafter.
– via Twitter DwainPrice