GDT: Mavs vs Pacers (day games suck) 3-12-16 - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

EricaLubarsky · 03-12-2016, 04:13 PM

All about our D

So I'm not optimistic

EricaLubarsky · 03-12-2016, 04:16 PM

George Hill > us

EricaLubarsky · 03-12-2016, 04:16 PM

Well maybe we win Monday so the streak doesn't get to 6

EricaLubarsky · 03-12-2016, 04:17 PM

Game. 5-games in a row is a good way to give Boston a lottery pick

yahyes · 03-12-2016, 04:19 PM

Wow it's like almost there... to not even close.

EricaLubarsky · 03-12-2016, 04:19 PM

Rick, it's not even worth a TO down 9 with 1:50. Just wastes time.

EricaLubarsky · 03-12-2016, 04:21 PM

Well Dirk has some life. We just can't defend

EricaLubarsky · 03-12-2016, 04:23 PM

Force a miss, but can't secure the board. Story of the Mavs

DGM · 03-12-2016, 04:26 PM

Wes was moving.

DGM · 03-12-2016, 04:27 PM

Nah RC, no reason to change anything.

Underdog · 03-12-2016, 04:28 PM

This season is a kick in the nuts.

Melonhead · 03-12-2016, 04:29 PM

I'm fine with cleaning house once Dirk retires. Starting with Rick

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-12-2016, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Game. 5-games in a row is a good way to give Boston a lottery pick

The Mavs wouldn't know what to do with a lottery pick even if they had it.

I think not making the playoffs would hopefully convince the FO to re-think the direction of this franchise. And maybe Rick would re-think his coaching strategies as well.

Dtownsfinest · 03-12-2016, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I'm fine with cleaning house once Dirk retires. Starting with Rick

It sounds crazy but I can't deal with him. Rick's stubbornness. I just can't.

And 1 of 2 things need to happen next season. Either we give Dirk 30 million so we can officially tank or tell him to go find a contender to play for. This team should've been rebuilt 4 years ago. Lakers didn't commit to rebuilding until 2 years ago and in only TWO YEARS they have Randle and Russell to show for it.

Dtownsfinest · 03-12-2016, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

This season is a kick in the nuts.

There's nothing worse being a .500 team and then with no draft pick. This is like the ultimate kick in the nuts.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-12-2016, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

It sounds crazy but I can't deal with him. Rick's stubbornness. I just can't.

And 1 of 2 things need to happen next season. Either we give Dirk 30 million so we can officially tank or tell him to go find a contender to play for. This team should've been rebuilt 4 years ago. Lakers didn't commit to rebuilding until 2 years ago and in only TWO YEARS they have Randle and Russell to show for it.

Even stubborn Rick used to make adjustments when absolutely necessary, but now he is just going down with his sinking coaching plan. It's really bizarre and unfortunate.

Play Anderson and Powell 30 minutes a game. It's time.

DGM · 03-12-2016, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Even stubborn Rick used to make adjustments when absolutely necessary, but now he is just going down with his sinking coaching plan. It's really bizarre and unfortunate.

Play Anderson and Powell 30 minutes a game. It's time.

Can't do that it will ruin his"spacing".

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-12-2016, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

Can't do that it will ruin his"spacing".

Hey, speak of the devil...

Tim Cato
‏@tim_cato
Rick Carlisle on making potential changes: "everything points to staying the course, but I'm keeping an open mind"

DGM · 03-12-2016, 04:54 PM

He should be able to see that Zaza is worn down and isn't moving well. We roll him out there in the first quarter and fall behind. We do all see that...right?

Dtownsfinest · 03-12-2016, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Even stubborn Rick used to make adjustments when absolutely necessary, but now he is just going down with his sinking coaching plan. It's really bizarre and unfortunate.

Play Anderson and Powell 30 minutes a game. It's time.

His lack of playing youth is a problem. Fans of his don't want to acknowledge that and will bring up instances where he has but let's be honest. How have Powell and Anderson not been getting burn this year? Like how?

I don't know what's wrong with Carlisle. Its almost like he's coaching to get fired.

Bryan_Wilson · 03-12-2016, 05:58 PM

My frustration level is so high that I've typed and deleted my reaction to this game a dozen times or so trying to get the right words, only to find myself with my head on my desk by the time I'm finished.... groaning in agony/defeat.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-12-2016, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

His lack of playing youth is a problem. Fans of his don't want to acknowledge that and will bring up instances where he has but let's be honest. How have Powell and Anderson not been getting burn this year? Like how?

I don't know what's wrong with Carlisle. Its almost like he's coaching to get fired.

Which is why it doesn't matter if the Mavs have this year's pick or not. Rick wouldn't play them anyway.

Really wonder if he is upset with Cubes/Donnie over something that hasn't come out. Right now it seems as if he is begging to get fired or something.

Melonhead · 03-12-2016, 08:34 PM

“It’s not like even if we had our draft pick and we were really, really bad, now all of the sudden we were going to be good. There’s a long list of teams who have been four years away from being four years away for a long, long time. It’s not like, let’s just build through the draft and that’s a sure way to success. It actually hasn’t worked very well lately. Teams that have had the most [high] draft picks and have done that haven’t done so well.

“It takes a little bit of luck. I don’t care who it is. Then you look at the teams that said, ‘OK, let’s just blow it up.’ Who’s it worked for lately?”

Mark Cuban in TM article....Jesus help us. We'll continue to scrap free agents in the offseasons forever.

Skywalker · 03-12-2016, 08:57 PM

Even though all the odds might be against them, this team is determined and won't stop until they manage to be worse than the great '13 Mike James-led Mavs.

Melonhead · 03-12-2016, 09:00 PM

The Hornets are smoking the rockets, so expect the same monday

GermanDunk · 03-12-2016, 10:41 PM

That really sucks.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-12-2016, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

“It’s not like even if we had our draft pick and we were really, really bad, now all of the sudden we were going to be good. There’s a long list of teams who have been four years away from being four years away for a long, long time. It’s not like, let’s just build through the draft and that’s a sure way to success. It actually hasn’t worked very well lately. Teams that have had the most [high] draft picks and have done that haven’t done so well.

“It takes a little bit of luck. I don’t care who it is. Then you look at the teams that said, ‘OK, let’s just blow it up.’ Who’s it worked for lately?”

Mark Cuban in TM article....Jesus help us. We'll continue to scrap free agents in the offseasons forever.

Cuban, himself, stated on the radio that he considered blowing it up if DAJ didn't pick them (this is after DAJ agreed to come here and before he reneged). He also said in the past that the treadmill of mediocrity is the worst place to be. He sooooo misses the point of what it is to draft well and to actually rebuild. I feel like he and Rick are on Mars right now. Yeesh.

rimrocker · 03-12-2016, 11:12 PM

So why did we not trade Powell for one of those great offers?

Not sure why he'd resign with us unless we vastly overpay.

Underdog · 03-12-2016, 11:22 PM

Monta Ellis Called Out The Mavericks Last-Chance Out-Of-Bounds Play Before They Even Ran It

Jack.Kerr · 03-13-2016, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

“It’s not like even if we had our draft pick and we were really, really bad, now all of the sudden we were going to be good. There’s a long list of teams who have been four years away from being four years away for a long, long time. It’s not like, let’s just build through the draft and that’s a sure way to success. It actually hasn’t worked very well lately. Teams that have had the most [high] draft picks and have done that haven’t done so well.

“It takes a little bit of luck. I don’t care who it is. Then you look at the teams that said, ‘OK, let’s just blow it up.’ Who’s it worked for lately?”

Mark Cuban in TM article....Jesus help us. We'll continue to scrap free agents in the offseasons forever.

Cuban has taken the Mavericks into the death spiral of taping together free agents on the downside of their careers, mostly on the cheap, and trying to sell Dirk-tickets with it. He's just milking the final few years of fan goodwill toward Dirk. And people keep buying tickets to see it. Aside from Dirk, this team is damn nigh unwatchable.

The question I have is whether Cuban believes his own bullsh!t or not, whether he actually thinks he's putting together contenders, or whether he knows he's been trotting out inferior product since 2012.

Maybe Cuban will be able to sign Lebron in 2-3 years, get Dwyane out of retirement, pair them with DHo and Carmelo, and SPLASH! ...instant success. Because a real rebuild takes too long. Mark Cuban: The Lovechild of Al Davis and Jerry Jones.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-13-2016, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

So why did we not trade Powell for one of those great offers?

Not sure why he'd resign with us unless we vastly overpay.

I think a Dwight Powell S&T will be a big deal this summer. Remember he is restricted so we hold the cards.

Bryan_Wilson · 03-13-2016, 11:18 AM

If all Cuban cared about was milking Dirk's name to sell tickets why would he overpay Matthews to come here? There were plenty of cheaper options. Why would he overpay a restricted free agent in Parsons when he could have just resigned Marion? Why would we make any of the moves we made? If all he cared about was putting a mediocre product on the floor and selling tickets he could have done so and been much cheaper about it. Outside of end of the bench players or "hail-mary" type signings(McGee) I can't think of one move where Mavs went cheap by choice. The fact is from 01-11 we were the 5th lowest profiting NBA team. Having an average profit of negative 9mill approx. The CBA changed, we were no longer able to basically outspend most other teams. We made bad trades, we chased free agents that didn't want to come here. The few players we drafted and kept didn't turn out to be contributors. We picked up band-aid players and maybe overpaid players to try to compete, IMO because Dirk is loyal to the franchise so the franchise tried to be loyal right back. Call it a bad plan, call it Cuban intervening, call it bad coaching, call it whatever. In the end all that matters is MBT didn't execute, but not for lack of trying. Just my opinion anyway.

Idk what we are gonna do after Dirk retires, but I'm pretty sure we won't sign the same type of free agents, at least that is what would support the theory of the MBT doing this for Dirk. If we chase a player and don't land him, and Dirk is gone, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't try to then pick up those same band-aid players to make a 7-9 seed. I'm pretty sure when Dirk is gone, and actually starting this last off season the Mavs are more about keeping assets than trading them, things will change and any free agent we do sign would be more asset allocation than trying to compete. Also whether or not there were offers for Powell and Simba is irrelevant to me, just the fact we didn't move them for someone like Jeff Green to come off the bench shows that Cuban knows we are not one player/trade away from doing something. Hopefully meaning we are indeed trying to build the assets back up for what's ahead. IMO they are quietly and slowly preparing for the near future. I personally don't think roster construction will continue under the same philosophy after Dirk is gone.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-13-2016, 11:46 AM

Found the Cuban quote from mmb...

Quote:

I'll be brutally honest. Literally, we wanted to get Wes, he was a target for us all summer and we wanted to get DeAndre as well, but if we got shut out, we weren't going to try and fill the roster. We literally had the discussion that if we couldn't get a serious free agent, whether it was DeAndre or one of the others guys that are still out there or any of the earlier ones that went, that it was time to take a step back. The reason why we thought this year versus other years was simple math. Over the last few years, there was a race to the bottom with six or seven teams trying to have the worst record, but most of those teams have improved themselves significantly through the draft or free agency or both, or just getting better and playing better together like Orlando.

We felt like this year there aren't going to be six teams in the race together, especially in the Western Conference. Utah's significantly better, Sacramento is significantly better, Denver is even going to be significantly better with Gallinari being healthy and etc. ... who was going to be that team that was going to be really, really, really bad no matter what? Because I think there's only going to be two, maybe three teams in that race to the bottom, we said, "OK, this could be our David Robinson year" and we go out and get someone who we think we can develop and who is supposed to be an impact player and we take our lumps, we have lots of cap room and we do lots of trades to add lots of draft picks. Because draft picks, the way the cap is going, is only going to increase in value significantly. Fortunately that didn't happen!

Doing the David Robinson year would have been a sound plan. This is the smart Cuban talking here. Instead, he grossly overpays for a broken down Matthews and not worth it JJB...why? We could have picks and tons of cap space going into this summer just like he said. Seriously, would people have really been upset if we were a 15-20 win team versus what we are now? I just don't get it. I don't really care about having the same ole discussion about what the FO has done since the championship season. I DO care about Cuban going back on his own word like this just this past summer.

Bryan_Wilson · 03-13-2016, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Found the Cuban quote from mmb...

Doing the David Robinson year would have been a sound plan. This is the smart Cuban talking here. Instead, he grossly overpays for a broken down Matthews and not worth it JJB...why? We could have picks and tons of cap space going into this summer just like he said. Seriously, would people have really been upset if we were a 15-20 win team versus what we are now? I just don't get it. I don't really care about having the same ole discussion about what the FO has done since the championship season. I DO care about Cuban going back on his own word like this just this past summer.

I honestly don't care if we win 5 games or 40. I was in the pro tank group when DJ changed his mind. When we continued signing FA's even after Cuban said they were going to tank I assumed Dirk had a part, maybe even RC Idk. It could have been entirely Cuban though, and maybe he doesn't have it in him to tank despite his comments... Which would be extremely frustrating in the future if that is the case. He also could have been overly dramatic when he thought he had DJ in his back pocket and decided to milk and sensationalize the situation with the comments he made about tanking. I just think it's a bit disingenuous to lob the accusation that all he cares about is fielding a roster geared towards ticket sales when he has shown, over a decade long window, that he rly does not care about the profit side. The rest of it all is a matter of viewpoint really.

Underdog · 03-13-2016, 01:17 PM

Short answer: Dirk took a pay cut to keep this team competitive -- tanking would be a slap in the face.

rimrocker · 03-14-2016, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Short answer: Dirk took a pay cut to keep this team competitive -- tanking would be a slap in the face.

That's why I say give him 20+mil next season to make up for those sacrifices and fill the roster with guys 25 and under.
Then everyone should be happy.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-14-2016, 09:56 AM

For the record: I wasn't advocating a full rebuild. I was simply quoting what Cuban said which would be a year off rebuild and then IMO retool when the cap skyrockets this summer. I think the team could have won almost as many games without having given Wes the max. And honestly, with the way this season is finishing, I'm not sure tanking is much of an option anymore. Mavs can't win even when they want to.

I don't like seeing a new team every season, but I'd say this one needs to be tweaked more than ever. It starts with getting rid of some of these PGS and forcing Rick to play somewhat sane lineups.

And I think getting swept on national tv to GS or SA will do more harm than good. Ugh.

sefant77 · 03-14-2016, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

That's why I say give him 20+mil next season to make up for those sacrifices and fill the roster with guys 25 and under.
Then everyone should be happy.

Do you think Dirk is going to a summer of workouts and then 82 games (maybe playing just 60 with no b2bs) just to win 15 games?

He will give a fuck for this 20m and just straight retire and enjoy the entire year with his family

Bryan_Wilson · 03-14-2016, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Do you think Dirk is going to a summer of workouts and then 82 games (maybe playing just 60 with no b2bs) just to win 15 games?

Agreed. I just don't see Dirk at his age embracing all the work that goes into getting him basketball ready for a 15-20win tank roster. He's never been about the money and I don't think that would make him happy. If it did then by all means max him out and tank if we can't get plan A for once I just see it as highly unlikely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

For the record: I wasn't advocating a full rebuild. I was simply quoting what Cuban said which would be a year off rebuild and then IMO retool when the cap skyrockets this summer. I think the team could have won almost as many games without having given Wes the max. And honestly, with the way this season is finishing, I'm not sure tanking is much of an option anymore. Mavs can't win even when they want to.

I don't like seeing a new team every season, but I'd say this one needs to be tweaked more than ever. It starts with getting rid of some of these PGS and forcing Rick to play somewhat sane lineups.

And I think getting swept on national tv to GS or SA will do more harm than good. Ugh.

Yeah I agree with this. I would like to know where Dirk stands with the options we have available. Even if we can move some pgs off the roster and sign a guy like DH12 to a contract that likely would be an overpay as well how much better will this team be? If Dirk was ok with opting out and taking a big salary increase(I doubt it) it would be better for a draft pick, but then how attractive are we the following year even with all the cap? Likely then Dirk will be retiring and all we have is a CP(maybe) and an overpaid Wes(assuming he can't re-establish value to be moved or be a core piece) and presumably an aged DH12 in a small ball era. Honestly the options are not great no matter how we look at it. But if you like the David Rob 1 year tank idea then after next year wouldn't be a bad time do do it either with cap going up again that year and frankly this year's free agent class outside of KD35 is rly underwhelming. 2017 does look better even if I'm not sure they are realistic options if we are a 15-20 win team.

It pains me to see us be this bad and it would pain me to see it again next year but if Dirk wants to at least field a roster that competes for the playoffs then I'm all for it 100%. I really don't want to see Dirk miserable playing with 25yr olds and getting doubled every time he touches the ball. If we have a 20 win roster around Dirk I really doubt he will have fun playing in what could be his final year. As far as I'm concerned he's earned more than enough equity from fans from his loyalty and I think Cuban does whatever makes Dirk feel respected, was all I was saying as well to clarify.

Skywalker · 03-14-2016, 11:52 AM

Right now the only thing I'm looking forward to regarding the Mavs is Dirk's hall of fame speech in a few years