GDT: game 1 - Mavs (0-0) at Hawks (0-0) 6:30pm TNT - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

tap2390 · 10-22-2021, 10:21 AM

Luka vs Trae is only a debate for Hawks fans and that retarded simpleton Rashad Philips. Everyone else knows Luka has a more complete game at a better size.

I keep reiterating this, but the biggest difference between our record setting offense and this one is that we no longer have an above average roll man. Powell’s game is a fraction of what it was.

Collins and Capela combined for 28 points on 17 shots and 22 rebounds.

Porzingis, Powell, and WCS combined for 17 points on 22 shots and 15 rebounds.

We need an actual f’in big man. That’s why I wanted Richaun Holmes who dropped 21 & 11 opening night. We are a soft ass squad with charmin ultra bigs.

Dallas41 · 10-22-2021, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Luka vs Trae is only a debate for Hawks fans and that retarded simpleton Rashad Philips. Everyone else knows Luka has a more complete game at a better size.

I keep reiterating this, but the biggest difference between our record setting offense and this one is that we no longer have an above average roll man. Powell’s game is a fraction of what it was.

Collins and Capela combined for 28 points on 17 shots and 22 rebounds.

Porzingis, Powell, and WCS combined for 17 points on 22 shots and 15 rebounds.

We need an actual f’in big man. That’s why I wanted Richaun Holmes who dropped 21 & 11 opening night. We are a soft ass squad with charmin ultra bigs.

The perfect offseason for Dallas which I stated way back at the start of FA was if they somehow came away with DeRozan and Holmes.

When you watch that game yesterday the things they are trying to do on offense now under Kidd seems tailored made for DeRozan's game.

Which is why I was really upset they didn't go all in on him as opposed to THJ.

Holmes would have been the icing on the cake

Holmes
KP
DFS
Derozan
Luka

That fits perfect with the way they are trying to now play

It doesn't matter now but you can't help but think these past few drafts and off season's by the Mavs have been a total letdown

tap2390 · 10-22-2021, 12:00 PM

I will give Kidd a chance, but our player management has been nothing short of abysmal since the 2018 draft. Hindsight is 20/20 with regards to Porzingis. Whiffing on Green, Terry, AND Bey is inexcusable. Doing the same old thing with soft bigs and one dimensional 3&D wings is inexcusable.

Let’s see how the team is playing at the end of the season, but we need a hard look in the mirror.

FreshJive · 10-22-2021, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

I didn't get to watch the game until this morning, but boy, what a bunch o negative Nancys on here after one game for a team with a new coach, a new offense and a new defense, against a team with more talent that made no siginificant changes after going to the conference finals.

I expected the debate here to be about how the Hawks got the best deal in the Luka trade, since they got 2 lottery players. I was going to defend the trade, since the Mavs would have never taken Trey, since they thought had their point guard of the future in Dennis Smith Jr...who is hanging on by a thread in Portland. We'd have ended up with Jared Jackson or Mo Bamba, and a very high lottery pick in 2020.

Hey. Its one game, and the Mavs are trying to do a lot of new things. I'd give them more than a minute before throwing in the towel. This season depends on what KP does, and this night he moved well and blocked some shots and altered several more...unicorn type moves, just not enough of them...yet.

Why would the debate be about something that has long been settled? Just to help you out, the Mavs won that trade. We just witnessed the ball being taken out of the best player’s hands, and it didn’t work. Luka’s usage rate was just halved, and the offense couldn’t break 90. That’s the debate.

NeedlesKane · 10-22-2021, 03:08 PM

Does Powell have some crazy condition in his contract, stating that he must start so many games? Almost seems that way to me.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-22-2021, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

Does Powell have some crazy condition in his contract, stating that he must start so many games? Almost seems that way to me.

Our three best players voted for him to start, so we're up against it I'm afraid.

I'm fine with some early growing pains, but we can't get blown out like that again.

EricaLubarsky · 10-22-2021, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Our three best players voted for him to start, so we're up against it I'm afraid.

I'm fine with some early growing pains, but we can't get blown out like that again.

We can't? Good teams get blown out all the time. Bucks lost by near 40 in their first game.

Kidd Karma · 10-22-2021, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Why would the debate be about something that has long been settled? Just to help you out, the Mavs won that trade. We just witnessed the ball being taken out of the best player’s hands, and it didn’t work. Luka’s usage rate was just halved, and the offense couldn’t break 90. That’s the debate.

Trash coaching, Luka needs the ball every minute he is in the game, he is the decision maker. Not sure why Kidd doesn't see it, given his HOF play in the game. The best strategy during his day was for the ball to be in his hand.

Zeus · 10-22-2021, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yea. I don't think Luka looks out of shape. It looked like he had a good defender really keyed in on him while he was faced with 2 7 footers waiting on him in the paint with long wingspan. He made some real bad decisions trying to force lobs. (Not) Shockingly guys couldn't hit open looks either.

Correct me if I'm wrong but we gave THJ a raise and extension, doesn't that mean he should be any closer to a usable defender and maybe improved handles where he could provide something extra? Or does throwing money at a guy well into his career NOT mean he is going to be what you actually need on the roster all the sudden?

Maxi, DP are borderline useless still? Neither can rebound or defend the PnR?

Bullock and Brown were brought in to help the garbage defense and somehow we get worse and those 2 were involved in about 4 absolutely terrible possessions.

Luka...he gets a free pass.

We went completely limp after they scored a few consecutive buckets. Every aspect fell apart. That is players being mentally weak. When you have the same guys who can't handle adversity well, you can't expect much different results.

It's game 1 and we were gonna lose this one against any team in the league with what we did tonight. Probably even lose against 3 WNBA teams and some college teams. I expect a better effort effort better result next game.

Spacing! They shouldn't be able to keep two 7 footers in the paint

SMC0007 · 10-22-2021, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Must spread rep.

I guess I was just overly hyped for this game after the fun they had in the preseason. They just looked scared and hesitant.

But, stepping back, it is 100% expected that we'd struggle in this game. We'll look really good against bad defenses, but a new offense will struggle against what was the 2nd best defense in the league that only got better in the offseason.

This experiment may fail in the end, but we won't know until ASB at the earliest.

Yup on all of it.

Definitely looked hesitant after they scored consecutively and tied us at 10-10. As it went along it just got worse. They have been burned in big moments and that takes a toll. Last night was also another big moment even though it was 1 of 81 games. They had the pressure of a smoking preseason preseason renewed vibes and better chemistry. They knew it was Kidd and the 37 coaches debut here too. It really a lot to live up to.

We aren't going to be able to have any credibility to claim it's a fail for a cpl months.

It's really on the players for laying that egg though IMO. There were plenty of missed open shots that would have kept it closer we just didn't play well. When Luka and KP both sht the bed the team is gonna get blasted.

Zeus · 10-22-2021, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

The perfect offseason for Dallas which I stated way back at the start of FA was if they somehow came away with DeRozan and Holmes.

When you watch that game yesterday the things they are trying to do on offense now under Kidd seems tailored made for DeRozan's game.

Which is why I was really upset they didn't go all in on him as opposed to THJ.

Holmes would have been the icing on the cake

Holmes
KP
DFS
Derozan
Luka

That fits perfect with the way they are trying to now play

It doesn't matter now but you can't help but think these past few drafts and off season's by the Mavs have been a total letdown

Your correct but that is a suboptimal way to play basketball. Mid range shots will always be less efficient than a layup or uncontested 3

Zeus · 10-22-2021, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Trash coaching, Luka needs the ball every minute he is in the game, he is the decision maker. Not sure why Kidd doesn't see it, given his HOF play in the game. The best strategy during his day was for the ball to be in his hand.

Best take of the day and spot on.. This desire to take the ball out of Luka's hands when no other player has discernible basketball skills is laughable

SMC0007 · 10-22-2021, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Spacing! They shouldn't be able to keep two 7 footers in the paint

Sure but you can't have spacing when our guys are throwing bricks. DP hit 3s in preseason, but teams are going to make him prove it. His screens are better than KPs but he fumbled the ball away twice on rolls and Luka botched a few pass attempts that shouldn't have even been thrown toward the basket.

It's not like they were just literally sitting in the paint. They defended the PnR really well and collapsed with great timing. On top of that Luka was ballsack.

SMC0007 · 10-22-2021, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Your correct but that is a suboptimal way to play basketball. Mid range shots will always be less efficient than a layup or uncontested 3

It was far from suboptimal in the recent years playoffs. That's where the gold is because spacing isn't easy when teams key in on 1 team for a playoff series.

Lay ups are definitely great but threes are fools gold in the POs unless you are GSW with good team defense, 3 guys who are 2 way players and 2 deadly perimeter shooters.

Zeus · 10-22-2021, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

The perfect offseason for Dallas which I stated way back at the start of FA was if they somehow came away with DeRozan and Holmes.

When you watch that game yesterday the things they are trying to do on offense now under Kidd seems tailored made for DeRozan's game.

Which is why I was really upset they didn't go all in on him as opposed to THJ.

Holmes would have been the icing on the cake

Holmes
KP
DFS
Derozan
Luka

That fits perfect with the way they are trying to now play

It doesn't matter now but you can't help but think these past few drafts and off season's by the Mavs have been a total letdown

I am afraid the Luka era Mavs might never recover from the Danny Green 2019 offseason and the 2020 botched Saddiq Bey, Desmond Bane, Tyrese Maxey draft. Josh Green doesn't appear to be able to play

rimrocker · 10-22-2021, 07:24 PM

Didn't see the game but am wondering if Kidd went overboard to get KP involved.

Dallas41 · 10-22-2021, 09:32 PM

Interesting that the Mavs never went after Spencer Diwiddie either

Zeus · 10-22-2021, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Interesting that the Mavs never went after Spencer Diwiddie either

Not sure Cuban ever completely got operation dry powder totally out of his mind. Mid level people never seemed to interest him since 2011.

Zeus · 10-22-2021, 09:51 PM

In case you haven't seen this, here is a link to the absolutely fantastic breakdown and analysis of Kidd's horrific offensive scheme by Josh Bowe of Mavs Moneyball. Great examples of the ridiculous spacing

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2021/1...-season-opener

EricaLubarsky · 10-22-2021, 11:03 PM

It’s easy to talk shit when you’re a couch coach.

Fact is that we looked like ass against a top 3 defense in the league. No science or dep dive needed. Their defense made us look stupid.

SMC0007 · 10-23-2021, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

It’s easy to talk shit when you’re a couch coach.

Fact is that we looked like ass against a top 3 defense in the league. No science or dep dive needed. Their defense made us look stupid.

Absolutely fantastic breakdown EL. We lost one game against a really good team where our best players played like ass. Our whole team played bad.

mac222b · 10-23-2021, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

It’s easy to talk shit when you’re a couch coach.

Fact is that we looked like ass against a top 3 defense in the league. No science or dep dive needed. Their defense made us look stupid.

You have to be at least a little concerned, no? That was a distressing offensive performance. Kidd was beyond slow to make any adjustments— he didn’t even make any.

Zeus · 10-23-2021, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Absolutely fantastic breakdown EL. We lost one game against a really good team where our best players played like ass. Our whole team played bad.

A scheme with no hand off screens and zero spacing might be highly correlated to our best players playing like ass.. but who knows. I guess if there is no solution to looking decent against good defenses we might as well just plan on about 41 and 41.

mac222b · 10-23-2021, 11:03 AM

I’m back on team “play KP as small ball Center, pump up his stats for the first two months of the season and SELL for 60 cents on the dollar.” Even if he goes off and looks like an All-Star over the next months- which I hope he does. He’s one injury away from being an untraceable albatross and now our all time great 22 year old is ceding touches to the stiff. He just doesn’t have “it”.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-23-2021, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

I’m back on team “play KP as small ball Center, pump up his stats for the first two months of the season and SELL for 60 cents on the dollar.” Even if he goes off and looks like an All-Star over the next months- which I hope he does. He’s one injury away from being an untraceable albatross and now our all time great 22 year old is ceding touches to the stiff. He just doesn’t have “it”.

Now THIS is overkill. But you might be right about him playing center.

Zeus · 10-23-2021, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

I’m back on team “play KP as small ball Center, pump up his stats for the first two months of the season and SELL for 60 cents on the dollar.” Even if he goes off and looks like an All-Star over the next months- which I hope he does. He’s one injury away from being an untraceable albatross and now our all time great 22 year old is ceding touches to the stiff. He just doesn’t have “it”.

You bring up a good point. It appears J-Kidd's strategy is to have Luka cede shots to a bevy of guys that shouldn't really be playing regularly in the NBA. But it is early. Given enough time, a strategy which takes the ball out of a generational talent's hands regularly for sub replacement level players to get more involved coupled with crowded spacing and a preference for contested mid range shots should pay dividends down the road as Luka could use a lottery pick this upcoming draft... Wait did we trade this year's 1st round pick for Porzingis? I don't recall.

MavsMandy · 10-23-2021, 05:08 PM

Who's gonna start today's GDT?

G-Man · 10-25-2021, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Why would the debate be about something that has long been settled? Just to help you out, the Mavs won that trade.

The Mavs got the best player, but the Hawks got 2. We gave them the draft pick that yielded Cam Reddish. Add Cam to Trey and you may have more value than Luka alone.

From ESPN: In four games in the last playoffs, Reddish shot 9-of-14 from 3-point range and averaged 12.5 points per game. To start this season, the third-year player is 6-for-9 from deep in two games and is averaging 19.5 points a night.

tap2390 · 10-25-2021, 10:18 AM

A dime and a nickel don’t add up to a quarter.

EricaLubarsky · 10-25-2021, 11:33 AM

Not to disparage anyone, but...

I would not trade LeBron James or Michael Jordan for Allen Iverson and Ron Artest

G-Man · 10-25-2021, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Not to disparage anyone, but...

I would not trade LeBron James or Michael Jordan for Allen Iverson and Ron Artest

Good point. Although I suspect Trey Young is a lot more Steph Curry than Allen Iverson. And Cam Reddish has yet to show any signs of insanity.

Zeus · 10-26-2021, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

The Mavs got the best player, but the Hawks got 2. We gave them the draft pick that yielded Cam Reddish. Add Cam to Trey and you may have more value than Luka alone.

From ESPN: In four games in the last playoffs, Reddish shot 9-of-14 from 3-point range and averaged 12.5 points per game. To start this season, the third-year player is 6-for-9 from deep in two games and is averaging 19.5 points a night.

No. Cam has not shown for any extended period that he is anything more than a replacement level player. You can't add the two together and say that is the comparison to Luka. It's not like the Mavs will leave a roster spot open in perpetuity. This is a false equivalency type argument.