All you socialists should get behind this one!!

[dude1394]

Since we all want more guvment...how about...cool...that should help their economy.
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...rnia-acti.html

August 27, 2008
California Ballot Initiative to Impose 45% Income Tax, 55% Wealth Tax & 36%-54% Exit Tax

A California activist is trying to gather the 694,354 signatures needed to place a tax initiative on the ballot that would:

* Impose a new 35% income surtax (in addition to federal taxes and the existing 10.3% top state rate) -- 17.5% (on all of the taxpayer's income) when income exceeds $150,000 (single)/$250,000 (joint), and an additional 17.5% (again, on all of the taxpayer's income) when income exceeds $350,000 (single)/$500,000 (joint).
* Impose a one-time 55% wealth tax on assets exceeding $20 million held by a California resident or held in California by nonresident.
* Impose an exit tax of between 36.5% to 54.3% on both income and unrealized appreciation in asset values over $5 million when a resident dies or leaves California.

[Usually Lurkin]

sweet. it looks like my career path won't take me over 150000(single) 250000(joint), but I could benefit like it does anyway. Surely that money will all be properly redistributed and won't end up inthe pockets of politicians and beauracrats.

[chumdawg]

What odds do you give this initiative of passing?

[Usually Lurkin]

I think a better question is which fringe kooks do you consider prototypical of a party?

[chumdawg]

That's an excellent question, and I'm glad you asked it. This fringe kook is miles from "prototypical" of either party. From your question, I gather that you are willing to assign ridiculous, "fringe kook" prototypes to one party or the other.

That's why the rhetoric so often fails to accomplish anything valuable.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

That's an excellent question, and I'm glad you asked it. This fringe kook is miles from "prototypical" of either party. From your question, I gather that you are willing to assign ridiculous, "fringe kook" prototypes to one party or the other.

yeah, but I'd bet the fringe kook in this thread has ideas that are dreamed of by more democrats than say, the racists have ideas that are dreamed of by republicans. There are, of course, fringe kooks on the right (I'm talking about a couple people on this board) that spout out all kinds of ridiculousness that is only dreamed about by most republicans.

But as for this thread, even though this probably won't pass, it marks a pretty ugly asymptote that "the left" want to work toward.

[Flacolaco]

Only a kook supports redistribution of wealth.

The problem is that so many Americans are lazy and actually think they're owed something from the government .....some day this will actually work. Imagine, a whole generation of people who think it's the governments job to provide them with a "fair shake" on things...that they deserve, without trying, the same lifestyle that a successful business man enjoys...

I worked at a Taco Bell for 6.5 years to get to where I am now. College degree, programming job, house, wife, fat-ass savings account, and a kid on the way sometime in the near future I hope... no help from the government. The American dream built on the back of 79 cent tacos...

The government owes you jack effing S. You make your own way.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Only a kook supports redistribution of wealth.

The problem is that so many Americans are lazy and actually think they're owed something from the government .....some day this will actually work. Imagine, a whole generation of people who think it's the governments job to provide them with a "fair shake" on things...that they deserve, without trying, the same lifestyle that a successful business man enjoys...

I worked at a Taco Bell for 6.5 years to get to where I am now. College degree, programming job, house, wife, fat-ass savings account, and a kid on the way sometime in the near future I hope... no help from the government. The American dream built on the back of 79 cent tacos...

The government owes you jack effing S. You make your own way.

big dummy. You coulda had a government loan to pay your education onthe cheap (or grants if you weren't slinging taco meat). You coulda had lotsa kids already, and instead of putting in time with the tacos, you coulda just gotten individual checks for each kid. Instead of saving your own money, you could be pumping voice and votes into government retirement and health care accounts, so that you would, in a sense, be saving other people's money. In a nutshell, you work to hard, and you've got no one to blame but yourself! American dream my butt. I dream of big tvs, cool games, and lotsa time to play em.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I worked at a Taco Bell for 6.5 years to get to where I am now. College degree, programming job, house, wife, fat-ass savings account, and a kid on the way sometime in the near future I hope... no help from the government. The American dream built on the back of 79 cent tacos...

The government owes you jack effing S. You make your own way.

That's a good story (though I'm not sure what your wife and kids have to do with it). I'm curious what you paid for your college degree. Tuition is running around 10K a year and up these days. Did your Taco Bell job cover tuition and books and living expenses?

[Arne]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Only a kook supports redistribution of wealth.

The problem is that so many Americans are lazy and actually think they're owed something from the government .....some day this will actually work. Imagine, a whole generation of people who think it's the governments job to provide them with a "fair shake" on things...that they deserve, without trying, the same lifestyle that a successful business man enjoys...

I worked at a Taco Bell for 6.5 years to get to where I am now. College degree, programming job, house, wife, fat-ass savings account, and a kid on the way sometime in the near future I hope... no help from the government. The American dream built on the back of 79 cent tacos...

The government owes you jack effing S. You make your own way.

Well, now if the government could stop waisting money. Could stop giving money to special interest. Could stop fighting no-win wars. Could stop printing the money to come up with all the money that they can't squeeze out of you through taxation. Well, then, you could complain about "the left". For now, "the right", "the conservatives" are nothing more than the big government rightists.

[mary]

What? Wait..my STUDENT LOAN makes me a socialist?


Dear Lord,

Please let training camp get here a soon as possible so I will stop clicking on the Political Forum.

Amen

[jthig32]

Yeah, UL went just as kooky as the original article with that one.

I'm no dummy. If the government wants to take care of the interest on most of my school loans while I'm still in school, more power to them. Not going to say no to that.

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by mary

What? Wait..my STUDENT LOAN makes me a socialist?


Dear Lord,

Please let training camp get here a soon as possible so I will stop clicking on the Political Forum.

Amen

No, I do not believe a Student Loan makes you a socialist. You have to pay those back. Socialistic redistribution of wealth is more in the form of just giving you money with no obligations attached. I owe about $50K in student loans, and I guarantee the lenders and the government aren't going to just let me walk without paying.

[Underdog]

College loans don't make you socialist - college professors do...

[Usually Lurkin]

did you get that loan at below market interest rates?
If the government offered all other kinds of services at below market rates (like, I don't know, higher education, health care, etc.), and used tax-payer money to do it, what would you call it?

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

did you get that loan at below market interest rates?
If the government offered all other kinds of services at below market rates (like, I don't know, higher education, health care, etc.), and used tax-payer money to do it, what would you call it?

I would call it a Social Program. We have lots of those. Just because someone receives a benefit from a Social Program, doesn't mean that person is a socialist. Otherwise, every citizen of this country would be a Socialist, by your logic.

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by Underdog

College loans don't make you socialist - college professors do...

completely agree.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Underdog again.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by jefelump

I would call it a Social Program. We have lots of those. Just because someone receives a benefit from a Social Program, doesn't mean that person is a socialist. Otherwise, every citizen of this country would be a Socialist, by your logic.

lessee, I'm reading back through what I've posted, and I don't see anywhere where I make that outlandish connection.

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

lessee, I'm reading back through what I've posted, and I don't see anywhere where I make that outlandish connection.

Originally Posted by jefelump

No, I do not believe a Student Loan makes you a socialist.

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

did you get that loan at below market interest rates?
If the government offered all other kinds of services at below market rates (like, I don't know, higher education, health care, etc.), and used tax-payer money to do it, what would you call it?

Were you not disagreeing with me?

[Usually Lurkin]

no, but socialists use euphemisms like 'social program' too, don't they? there's a big fat blurry line between accepting government services and being a socialist.
But all through that fat, blurry line are people saying - "hey, if the government is willing to pay for it, more power to 'em, and I'm not going to turn it down" (to paraphrase jthig)

call it whatever you want, but directing ugly names like 'socialist' at people who want the government to take more money from you and your neighbors, then building a fat life with that money after the government took it from your neighbor is inconsistent.

[mary]

You don't even have to take out a loan or grant to have your education subsidized.

If you go to a state funded college and pay in-state tuition prices, then the cost of your tuition is being subsidized by taxpayer money.

Do you think that should be done away with?

Would you prefer I sling taco meat for the rest of my life?

Maybe we could be a nation of taco meat slingers. I'm sure that would benefit my neighbor greatly, especially if he really likes tacos.

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by mary

You don't even have to take out a loan or grant to have your education subsidized.

If you go to a state funded college and pay in-state tuition prices, then the cost of your tuition is being subsidized by taxpayer money.

Do you think that should be done away with?

Would you prefer I sling taco meat for the rest of my life?

Maybe we could be a nation of taco meat slingers. I'm sure that would benefit my neighbor greatly, especially if he really likes tacos.

For that matter, how much do we all pay for our kids to go to public school?

There are some social programs that are necessary. UL, call it a blurry line if you want, but I do not believe everyone who sends their kids to public schools is a socialist either.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by jefelump

For that matter, how much do we all pay for our kids to go to public school?

There are some social programs that are necessary. UL, call it a blurry line if you want, but I do not believe everyone who sends their kids to public schools is a socialist either.

great, neither do I, and I don't think anyone in this thread has, either. Are you saying that all redistribution of wealth is not socialist?

Anyway, don't you think that everyone collecting anything from the government will say the same thing about their entitlement that you say about yours? Personally, I think the government does an entirely crappy job with education, and I think we'd be better off spending our money privately.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Personally, I think the government does an entirely crappy job with education, and I think we'd be better off spending our money privately.

Hear hear.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by mary

You don't even have to take out a loan or grant to have your education subsidized.

If you go to a state funded college and pay in-state tuition prices, then the cost of your tuition is being subsidized by taxpayer money.

yeah. that's what I'm saying.

Do you think that should be done away with?

no

Would you prefer I sling taco meat for the rest of my life?

I don't care what you do with your taco meat.

Maybe we could be a nation of taco meat slingers. I'm sure that would benefit my neighbor greatly, especially if he really likes tacos.

do you think the government should pay for everything that will benefit your neighbor?

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

great, neither do I, and I don't think anyone in this thread has, either. Are you saying that all redistribution of wealth is not socialist?

Anyway, don't you think that everyone collecting anything from the government will say the same thing about their entitlement that you say about yours? Personally, I think the government does an entirely crappy job with education, and I think we'd be better off spending our money privately.

No, I didn't say that all redistribution of wealth is not socialist. I said there are some social programs that are necessary. Public schools was an example. My claim is that just because someone accepts benefits from a social program, that doesn't make them a socialist.

How much does it cost the USPS to deliver a letter? The going rate for postage is $0.42. I guarantee it costs more than that to deliver it. So why isn't the USPS losing money and going bankrupt? Because the government subsidizes them with taxpayer dollars. So by mailing a letter, am I a socialist? If I want to prove I'm not a socialist, should I boycot the USPS and use only Fed-Ex or UPS?

[mary]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

no

If you have such disdain for social policies, then why do you support them?

I don't care what you do with your taco meat.

That wasn't the question. But I'm guessing you already knew that.

do you think the government should pay for everything that will benefit your neighbor?

Everything? Are we having a discussion about everything? The only thing I've mentioned in this thread is subsidized education.

And why the sudden disconnect between my "neighbor" and the "government"? A few posts ago they were one and the same.

Are you asking me if I think people should share in the costs of goods and services that they ultimately benefit from?

[Murphy3]

I managed to pay for my first two years of college making anywhere between $5.00 and $7.50 a year in the mid to late 90's..

So paying for your school on the back of 79 cent tacos is doable.

[mary]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I managed to pay for my first two years of college making anywhere between $5.00 and $7.50 a year in the mid to late 90's..

So paying for your school on the back of 79 cent tacos is doable.

That's what I call stretching a buck.

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I managed to pay for my first two years of college making anywhere between $5.00 and $7.50 a year in the mid to late 90's..

So paying for your school on the back of 79 cent tacos is doable.

It was in 2000 when I started.

I doubt if it is now.

There's nothing wrong with student loans, and there's nothing wrong with grants and scholarships and subsidized in-state tuition.

What is wrong is when you (crazy CA kooks) want to tax someones income an additional 20% just because they're doing well and you're not, so that you don't have to pay as much on your income. What's wrong is when I pay my mortgage every month, and my tax money could be used by Obamanomics one day to bail some idiot out of his mortage who didn't pay it.

That's the kind of help that gets me riled up, not education...but if you want to go down that road, why do "rich" people have to pay more taxes, and yet their children are ineligible to receive any financial aid from the state when it's time for them to go to college?

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by jefelump

No, I didn't say that all redistribution of wealth is not socialist.

?? so it is?

I said there are some social programs that are necessary. Public schools was an example. My claim is that just because someone accepts benefits from a social program, that doesn't make them a socialist.

awesome. we're in complete agreement, because nobody said it does. What kind of argument are you presenting for why public schools are on the "good" side, and "socialist" is on the other? I think more importantly, if you think that your public entitlements are not socialist, but someone else's are, what kind of definition of "socialist" are you working off of?

How much does it cost the USPS to deliver a letter?

I'm pretty sure that historically the USPS is self sufficient. If they are losing money now, it's because of competition with email.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by mary

If you have such disdain for social policies, then why do you support them?

who says I have disdain for them? I'm just perfectly willing to say that I was living off the public dole, and off a redistribution of wealth as a student, and that I am benefitting from that now, as I enjoy the benefits of my public education. I'm trying to work out whether there would be a better way, though.

That wasn't the question. But I'm guessing you already knew that.

but that is the answer. Why should I pay for you not to sling taco meat?

Everything? Are we having a discussion about everything? The only thing I've mentioned in this thread is subsidized education.

yah, and it sounded like your rationale was that it helps your neighbor.

And why the sudden disconnect between my "neighbor" and the "government"? A few posts ago they were one and the same.

Are you asking me if I think people should share in the costs of goods and services that they ultimately benefit from?

I never said your neighbor and the government were the same. If I were to try to line it up, I'd say your neighbors fund the government, but that the government is more than your neighbors, and takes a huge chunk off the top of everything they do. And I'm asking you (well, a set of people in this thread) to come up with a better argument than, "nyah, nyah, public redistribution of wealth is evil, unless some of it comes my way for things I want."

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I'm pretty sure that historically the USPS is self sufficient. If they are losing money now, it's because of competition with email.

And a sharp rise in the dog population.

[mcsluggo]

Yay! I love straw men!

I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'

[mcsluggo]

and the post office has traditionally been self sufficient... but it has traditionally subsidized expensive first class mail (your pick up at my door and deliver it to Northern Alaska for 42 cents) by charging higher than cost for bulk mailings.


Also.. am I the only one that thinks the public school that educates my children is damn awesome?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

Also.. am I the only one that thinks the public school that educates my children is damn awesome?

I guess it depends on where you live...



US Chamber of Commerce Education Report Card:


Virginia - #12

Texas - #28

[DirkFTW]

My future kid's school may have some of the world's finest metal detectors.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

and the post office has traditionally been self sufficient... but it has traditionally subsidized expensive first class mail (your pick up at my door and deliver it to Northern Alaska for 42 cents) by charging higher than cost for bulk mailings.

I don't understand what you are saying - that they use profits from one service to reduce the price of another? Isn't that how a lot of businesses stay profitable?

Also.. am I the only one that thinks the public school that educates my children is damn awesome?

I think you would be in the minority, nationwide

[mcsluggo]

Yes, it is true.

Fairfax county has some of the best best public schools in the country, and McLean has the best schools in Fairfax county...

it is nice to be reminded of your good fortune sometimes

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I don't understand what you are saying - that they use profits from one service to reduce the price of another? Isn't that how a lot of businesses stay profitable?

I wasn't saying that to contradict anyone... juist pointing out that it probably DOES cost the PO more than 45 cents to mail a letter... but they make up the differnce elsewhere (internally).

I was agreeing with you (shocking! I know!)