The Solution: Part Two - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

kg_veteran · 12-09-2003, 12:24 PM

I don't know if I'd be as willing to do that deal. I like Howard a lot.

Dirkenstien · 12-09-2003, 01:28 PM

There's no reason to tweak KG's deal, it works under the CBA and offers fairly equal players and talent to each team while in my opinion improves each teams current situation...its a great trade and even though I would like to see our current fab 5 work it out, I would enjoy seeing this trade happen even more

Stressboy · 12-09-2003, 02:55 PM

The reason to tweak the trade is that it makes sense from an Orlando standpoint. They don't want 3 max contracts 2 of which are for 3 more years after this one. No one believes that Jamison or Finley is really a max player on the open market, just the Cuban market. If we could do the deal of Fin/Walker/Najera/Danials for T-Mac/Hill/Cap Filler then I would not blink. I really like Danials and Najera, but neither have the upside of Howard. Again, if you get a third party involved, then you might be able to get some more young players in the mix, but I think Fin/Walker/Najera/Danials + a pick would make them consider it if t-mac wants out.

Nash, T-Mac, Howard, Jamison, Dirk as the best 5 would be down right nasty.

Stressboy

LRB · 12-09-2003, 04:35 PM

Stressboy I'd probably do your trade depending on what the filler from dallas was. It would be better if you could go to realGM and put what you see the filler being.

Still I don't see this as being more enticing to Orlando. With KG's scenario they get 3 all star level players for 1 super star. Under yours they only get 2 plus 1 player with some potential and a very decent spare. I think Orlando comes out better and would sooner bite on KG's trade. Cap space is nice, but they realistically aren't going to get more talent than Jamison IMO. So I do your trade if they insist, but I wouldn't expect it.

kg_veteran · 12-09-2003, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Stressboy
The reason to tweak the trade is that it makes sense from an Orlando standpoint. They don't want 3 max contracts 2 of which are for 3 more years after this one. No one believes that Jamison or Finley is really a max player on the open market, just the Cuban market. If we could do the deal of Fin/Walker/Najera/Danials for T-Mac/Hill/Cap Filler then I would not blink.

I'd do your modified deal in a heartbeat.

Here's a trade that works under the cap...

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 36.7 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.2 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 0.5 apg in 15.7 minutes)
SG Marquis Daniels (3.8 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 6.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: SG Grant Hill (3.8 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 6.3 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
PF Pat Garrity (1.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 11.0 minutes)
C Steven Hunter (4.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.2 apg in 18.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -10.1 ppg, -8.8 rpg, and -2.6 apg.

Orlando trades: SG Grant Hill (3.8 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 6.3 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
PF Pat Garrity (1.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 11.0 minutes)
C Steven Hunter (4.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.2 apg in 18.5 minutes)
Orlando receives: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 19 games)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 19 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19 games)
SG Marquis Daniels (3.8 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 12 games)
Change in team outlook: +10.1 ppg, +8.8 rpg, and +2.6 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

New roster:

Dallas:

Nowitzki - Bradley - Hunter
Jamison - Fortson
Howard - Garrity
McGrady - Delk
Nash - Best

Orlando:

DeClerq - Najera
Howard - Gooden - Harvey
Walker - Giricek
Finley - Daniels
Lue -

If they're strictly looking at talent, Orlando will want my proposed trade. However, if they're trying to maintain some financial flexibility, perhaps your deal might make a bit more sense.

I'm game for either one.

kg_veteran · 12-09-2003, 09:51 PM

Here's one more proposed scenario. For the record, I still don't think they give up McGrady without receiving three really good players in return, but nonetheless...

Dallas trades: SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.2 minutes)
SF Antawn Jamison (14.2 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 29.2 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 0.5 apg in 15.7 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Grant Hill (3.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 0.5 apg in 15.7 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
C Steven Hunter (4.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.2 apg in 18.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -4.7 ppg, -4.8 rpg, and +0.8 apg.

Orlando trades: SF Grant Hill (3.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 0.5 apg in 15.7 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
C Steven Hunter (4.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.2 apg in 18.5 minutes)
Orlando receives: SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 19 games)
SF Antawn Jamison (14.2 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 19 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19 games)
Change in team outlook: +4.7 ppg, +4.8 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

New roster:

Nowitzki - Bradley - Hunter
Walker - Fortson
Howard - Daniels
McGrady - Delk
Nash - Best

I like that one A LOT, even though it's the least likely of the three I've posted.

Jeremiah · 12-09-2003, 10:17 PM

Send 'em Best as well. they could use a point guard.

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 36.7 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.2 minutes)
PG Travis Best (3.5 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 2.4 apg in 15.9 minutes)
Dallas receives: PG Grant Hill (3.5 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 2.4 apg in 15.9 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
C Steven Hunter (4.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.2 apg in 18.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -7.0 ppg, -5.8 rpg, and -4.2 apg.

Orlando trades: PG Grant Hill (3.5 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 2.4 apg in 15.9 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
C Steven Hunter (4.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.2 apg in 18.5 minutes)
Orlando receives: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 19 games)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 19 games)
PG Travis Best (3.5 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 2.4 apg in 19 games)
Change in team outlook: +7.0 ppg, +5.8 rpg, and +4.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Dallas and Orlando being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Dallas and Orlando had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

kg_veteran · 12-09-2003, 10:28 PM

Clearly, I'd do that too.

Jamisonite · 12-09-2003, 10:35 PM

i dont understand why you guys would do this...Tmac is not worth that. GHills contract is on the book for 4 more years. So we pay a guy the maximum to sit on the freakin bench. And Steven Hunter...who the hell is he. I keep Fin and Walker...No Tmac for me.

Jamisonite · 12-09-2003, 10:59 PM

Ok i read a trade rumor on NBAWIRE.com between Clev and Memphis so i threw this together

Cleveland trades: C Zydrunas Illgauskas (16.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 1.6 apg in 32.8 minutes)
SF Ricky Davis (16.5 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 4.9 apg in 37.2 minutes)
SF Darius Miles (9.5 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 2.7 apg in 27.6 minutes)
PF Chris Mihm (7.9 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 18.2 minutes)
PG Kevin Ollie (4.5 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 3.0 apg in 17.8 minutes)
Cleveland receives: SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.2 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (8.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.8 apg in 20.3 minutes)
C Lorenzen Wright (10.9 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 0.9 apg in 25.3 minutes)
SF Shane Battier (10.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.3 apg in 25.6 minutes)
PF Stromile Swift (8.9 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 0.6 apg in 19.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +0.5 ppg, -2.4 rpg, and -6.1 apg.

Dallas trades: SG Marquis Daniels (3.8 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 6.3 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.2 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (8.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.8 apg in 20.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: PF Chris Mihm (7.9 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 18 games)
PG Kevin Ollie (4.5 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 3.0 apg in 19 games)
SF Mike Miller (12.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 17 games)
SF Bo Outlaw (4.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 17 games)
Change in team outlook: +0.5 ppg, +8.1 rpg, and +3.9 apg.

Memphis trades: C Lorenzen Wright (10.9 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 0.9 apg in 25.3 minutes)
SF Shane Battier (10.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.3 apg in 25.6 minutes)
SF Mike Miller (12.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 31.5 minutes)
PF Stromile Swift (8.9 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 0.6 apg in 19.9 minutes)
SF Bo Outlaw (4.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 18.1 minutes)
Memphis receives: C Zydrunas Illgauskas (16.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 1.6 apg in 19 games)
SF Ricky Davis (16.5 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 4.9 apg in 18 games)
SF Darius Miles (9.5 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 2.7 apg in 19 games)
SG Marquis Daniels (3.8 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 12 games)
Change in team outlook: -1.0 ppg, -5.7 rpg, and +2.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Jamisonite · 12-09-2003, 11:03 PM

c Dirk,Mihm,Bradley,Najera
pf Walker,Dirk,Jamison,Mihm,Najera,outlaw
Sf Howard,Jamison,Walker,Miller
SG Miller,Howard,ollie
PG Nash,ollie,Best

thats what wed look like

rakesh.s · 12-10-2003, 02:04 AM

memphis is stacked at 2,3,4 with a logjam for minutes..i don't think they're interested in acquiring davis or miles

Jamisonite · 12-10-2003, 10:37 AM

this trade rids them of some of that blockage. Getting rid of Miller Battier Wright and Swift

kg_veteran · 12-10-2003, 10:41 AM

Jamisonite, I don't see how your proposed trade helps anyone but Memphis.

Jamisonite · 12-10-2003, 11:52 AM

it helps us alot. Especially for this season. We loose Delk and Finley (Daniels doesnt play) and we get a good big body with potential in Mihm a true back up point guard in Ollie and a good shooter in Miller. Miller could thrive in our system and hes used to being on the bottom of the totem poll

kg_veteran · 12-10-2003, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jamisonite
it helps us alot. Especially for this season. We loose Delk and Finley (Daniels doesnt play) and we get a good big body with potential in Mihm a true back up point guard in Ollie and a good shooter in Miller. Miller could thrive in our system and hes used to being on the bottom of the totem poll

Ollie and Outlaw are crap. They would (or should) be released immediately if this trade were made.

So you're down to Finley for Mihm and Miller. I think we can do better for Finley if we're intent on getting rid of him, which I'm not.

Male30Dan · 12-10-2003, 12:05 PM

Yeah, like for Curry... Of course that is another thread!!!

Lets see... Center we have always needed, or big white stiff with slightly above average talent and a shooter???

I will NOT go with the latter in this case!

Jamisonite · 12-10-2003, 01:19 PM

Im rather high on Ollie...hes defiently better than Best or Delk

Male30Dan · 12-10-2003, 01:24 PM

I cant say that he is better than either... I think Best and Delk are both about as talented as Ollie regarding defense, which is what we need the most... The only way Ollie is better than either is if he will NOT shoot, as both of these two do too much of!!!

Either way, no trade!

LRB · 12-10-2003, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Quote:

Originally posted by: Stressboy
The reason to tweak the trade is that it makes sense from an Orlando standpoint. They don't want 3 max contracts 2 of which are for 3 more years after this one. No one believes that Jamison or Finley is really a max player on the open market, just the Cuban market. If we could do the deal of Fin/Walker/Najera/Danials for T-Mac/Hill/Cap Filler then I would not blink.

I'd do your modified deal in a heartbeat.

Here's a trade that works under the cap...

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 36.7 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.2 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 0.5 apg in 15.7 minutes)
SG Marquis Daniels (3.8 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 6.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: SG Grant Hill (3.8 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 6.3 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
PF Pat Garrity (1.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 11.0 minutes)
C Steven Hunter (4.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.2 apg in 18.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -10.1 ppg, -8.8 rpg, and -2.6 apg.

Orlando trades: SG Grant Hill (3.8 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 6.3 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
PF Pat Garrity (1.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 11.0 minutes)
C Steven Hunter (4.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.2 apg in 18.5 minutes)
Orlando receives: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 19 games)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 19 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19 games)
SG Marquis Daniels (3.8 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 12 games)
Change in team outlook: +10.1 ppg, +8.8 rpg, and +2.6 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

New roster:

Dallas:

Nowitzki - Bradley - Hunter
Jamison - Fortson
Howard - Garrity
McGrady - Delk
Nash - Best

Orlando:

DeClerq - Najera
Howard - Gooden - Harvey
Walker - Giricek
Finley - Daniels
Lue -

If they're strictly looking at talent, Orlando will want my proposed trade. However, if they're trying to maintain some financial flexibility, perhaps your deal might make a bit more sense.

I'm game for either one.

Yeah I'd do this one as well with no hesitation. But I still think your original trade would have a better chance KG.

LRB · 12-10-2003, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jamisonite
Ok i read a trade rumor on NBAWIRE.com between Clev and Memphis so i threw this together

Cleveland trades: C Zydrunas Illgauskas (16.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 1.6 apg in 32.8 minutes)
SF Ricky Davis (16.5 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 4.9 apg in 37.2 minutes)
SF Darius Miles (9.5 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 2.7 apg in 27.6 minutes)
PF Chris Mihm (7.9 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 18.2 minutes)
PG Kevin Ollie (4.5 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 3.0 apg in 17.8 minutes)
Cleveland receives: SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.2 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (8.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.8 apg in 20.3 minutes)
C Lorenzen Wright (10.9 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 0.9 apg in 25.3 minutes)
SF Shane Battier (10.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.3 apg in 25.6 minutes)
PF Stromile Swift (8.9 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 0.6 apg in 19.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +0.5 ppg, -2.4 rpg, and -6.1 apg.

Dallas trades: SG Marquis Daniels (3.8 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 6.3 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.2 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (8.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.8 apg in 20.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: PF Chris Mihm (7.9 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 18 games)
PG Kevin Ollie (4.5 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 3.0 apg in 19 games)
SF Mike Miller (12.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 17 games)
SF Bo Outlaw (4.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 17 games)
Change in team outlook: +0.5 ppg, +8.1 rpg, and +3.9 apg.

Memphis trades: C Lorenzen Wright (10.9 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 0.9 apg in 25.3 minutes)
SF Shane Battier (10.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.3 apg in 25.6 minutes)
SF Mike Miller (12.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 31.5 minutes)
PF Stromile Swift (8.9 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 0.6 apg in 19.9 minutes)
SF Bo Outlaw (4.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 18.1 minutes)
Memphis receives: C Zydrunas Illgauskas (16.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 1.6 apg in 19 games)
SF Ricky Davis (16.5 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 4.9 apg in 18 games)
SF Darius Miles (9.5 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 2.7 apg in 19 games)
SG Marquis Daniels (3.8 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 12 games)
Change in team outlook: -1.0 ppg, -5.7 rpg, and +2.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

I'd definitely pass on this trade. We pay too much for too little. Ollie and Outlaw are almost worthless. You can find better players in the CBA, so why not go there and get them instead of trading for them. Miller is decent, but he's nowhere near Fin's class. Mihm is a decent big man, but we could probably get him in FA next year or one almost as good w/o diluting our talent. Daniles is a steal for what we're paying him. I'll throw him in on a great for us trade, but not one that robs us blind on talent.

LRB · 12-10-2003, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jeremiah
Send 'em Best as well. they could use a point guard.

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 36.7 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.2 minutes)
PG Travis Best (3.5 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 2.4 apg in 15.9 minutes)
Dallas receives: PG Grant Hill (3.5 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 2.4 apg in 15.9 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
C Steven Hunter (4.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.2 apg in 18.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -7.0 ppg, -5.8 rpg, and -4.2 apg.

Orlando trades: PG Grant Hill (3.5 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 2.4 apg in 15.9 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
C Steven Hunter (4.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.2 apg in 18.5 minutes)
Orlando receives: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 19 games)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 19 games)
PG Travis Best (3.5 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 2.4 apg in 19 games)
Change in team outlook: +7.0 ppg, +5.8 rpg, and +4.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Dallas and Orlando being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Dallas and Orlando had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Jeremiah this works fine for me. I still think KG's original trade proposal has the best chance to succeed with Orlando. But if the Orlando GM suggested this, then I'd go with it.

Speedy · 12-10-2003, 08:54 PM

With all of this talk about McGrady, here is an article from ESPN. Pretty darn accurate imo.

Mavs Rule · 12-10-2003, 10:46 PM

You don't give up three stars for T-mac, maybe two, but not three. If you can't do it with two don't do it. Yes, there is a danger with T-mac's attitude. But the biggest reason why you would never do KG's original trade is succinctly put in the ESPN chat with Tom Tolbert:

Quote:

will (toronto): Is Juwan Howard really "the curse", everywhere hes been the team loses. Washington, Dallas, Denver, now Orlando. The team hasn't really changed from last year, its not like teams didnt play zone against Orlando last year either.

Tom Tolbert: I don't know if he's a curse! Good point though, actually. I don't know. Maybe he's like the tiki doll in the Brady Bunch. I'm not sure. You're right though, can't say it's all his fault, but you do make a point.

Muhahah!!! [img]i/expressions/devil.gif[/img]

Jamisonite · 12-10-2003, 11:56 PM

their team has changed in a big way...they lost darrel armstrong