Trade talk: Cuban not looking for 'big deal'...OR??? - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dirkenstien · 02-02-2010, 10:44 AM

I think we probably have a deal on the table for Iggy/Dalembert but Philly is probably waiting it out to see who offers the most closer to the trade deadline. Dally really isn't a big deal since he's a huge expiring next year.

Cleveland, Phoenix, Portland, and Dallas are going to be in the bidding war down the wire. Not sure if Philly wants to see Iggy stay in the East, but the Cavs appear to be very motivated and rightfully so. Portland definitely has the most assets to bid with.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-02-2010, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I don't understand lots when it comes to BBall people. Of course, it isn't my money, and I don't really know what is and isn't being offered either.

With that said, all these cool trades, still run you into a problem in the end.
What trade makes you as good as the frontline of the Lakers? Bynum, Gasol, Odom are all 6'10" and above, long armed, and skilled. Any of them can go off for 20+ on any given night. They can even run the floor.

Add to that Kobe -- who is one of two players (him and Lebron) that I think are definitely ahead of Dirk in the league. All the rest I think I can argue Dirk and at least break even on the argument, but Lebron and Kobe are in a class by themselves, IMO.

The weakest link of the Lakers is an ultra quick PG (if you can spread the floor), and RC refuses to develop Frenchy since he is a rook. So I don't think Dallas has much of a chance to win it all this year anyway.

I think Mark and Donnie realize this, and are trying to hold a few more eggs in the basket to see how the landscape unfolds next year.

I just don't see how this team as presently constructed can beat the Lakers in 7 without a better frontline, and without a better SG to help spread the floor.

I would say that in a perfect world, Kevin Martin and Boozer would be enough to go against the lakers if you only had to give up Howard/Gooden/Barea/garbage to get them. I haven't done salaries, just saying it would probably take two players like that.

I don't see Howard still here past the deadline. His 11 minutes against Portland suggests as much.

jthig32 · 02-02-2010, 11:10 AM

The question is what do you give Philly to match Iggy/Dalembert? Are you including Damp in a proposed deal? I think that's a pointless debate because I don't think there's a chance in hell Damp gets moved before the off season.

So if you're trying to get Iggy/Dalembert without including Damp, you're talking about trading Josh/Gooden and enough contracts to make it work. You could possibly get their with JJB/Roddy/TimTom..maybe. But that would rip your roster apart. Seems unlikely (if even possible, I haven't looked at the exact numbers).

So you'd probably have to move Carroll into the deal, which instantly makes it less enticing for Philly. Obviously they still save a ton of money, but Carroll's contract stretches for another three years I think.

I dunno, it just doesn't seem like a great fit.

jthig32 · 02-02-2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I don't see Howard still here past the deadline. His 11 minutes against Portland suggests as much.

This, to me, is the bottom line. A few short weeks ago I was preaching patient with Josh, assuming he would round into form. But he's done here. I don't see anyway this gets turned around at this point.

They're obviously not picking up that option for this version of Josh Howard. So no matter what the deal is, he better be playing in another uniform after the trade deadline. If he's not this fan base is going to revolt.

jthig32 · 02-02-2010, 11:21 AM

BTW, here's a quote from Cuban via Gina Miller's blog:

Quote:

And on that subject of a trade, Cuban offered this: "If there's an opportunity there to get better, if a team wants to get off money and we can add a player that makes us better, we're gonna do it. We're not gonna sit pat just to sit pat. A week ago I probably would have told you nothing (was going to happen) but I think now things are picking up some."

The rest of the article is typical Cuban excuse-making, saying the team is "bored".

dude1394 · 02-02-2010, 11:28 AM

Well they are playing like they are bored for sure. It's all over their body language.

Underdog · 02-02-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

The question is what do you give Philly to match Iggy/Dalembert? Are you including Damp in a proposed deal? I think that's a pointless debate because I don't think there's a chance in hell Damp gets moved before the off season.

So if you're trying to get Iggy/Dalembert without including Damp, you're talking about trading Josh/Gooden and enough contracts to make it work. You could possibly get their with JJB/Roddy/TimTom..maybe. But that would rip your roster apart. Seems unlikely (if even possible, I haven't looked at the exact numbers).

So you'd probably have to move Carroll into the deal, which instantly makes it less enticing for Philly. Obviously they still save a ton of money, but Carroll's contract stretches for another three years I think.

I dunno, it just doesn't seem like a great fit.

Salary-wise, Josh/Gooden/Carroll for Iggy/Dalembert works, then add JJB or Roddy to sweeten the deal talent-wise.

The Sixers would save about $17mil in expiring contracts - if you include their current expirings, they should be under the cap next season (even if the cap shrinks by several million dollars - they're currently $7mil over with a 16-31 record to show for it.)

EDIT: Cleveland could simply trade Shaq for Iggy/Dalembert and the Sixers would save $21mil, so obviously we don't have the best offer out there (assuming Cleveland would even make that trade.)

AO41 · 02-02-2010, 12:04 PM

I think Cleveland would make that trade in a heart beat lol. Dalambert is a better fit than Shaq at this point and IGGY is IGGY...sooo. BUt I dont think Philly takes that deal because all they are getting is cap relief and no talent what so ever.

Underdog · 02-02-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AO41

I think Cleveland would make that trade in a heart beat lol. Dalambert is a better fit than Shaq at this point and IGGY is IGGY...sooo. BUt I dont think Philly takes that deal because all they are getting is cap relief and no talent what so ever.

Shaq for Iggy/Dalembert was just the general idea - Cleveland can add up to $6mil in talent and the trade still works (of course, Cleveland doesn't really have any reasonably-priced talent they can give up, so maybe Dallas has an edge?)

dude1394 · 02-02-2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Salary-wise, Josh/Gooden/Carroll for Iggy/Dalembert works, then add JJB or Roddy to sweeten the deal talent-wise.

The Sixers would save about $17mil in expiring contracts - if you include their current expirings, they should be under the cap next season (even if the cap shrinks by several million dollars - they're currently $7mil over with a 16-31 record to show for it.)

EDIT: Cleveland could simply trade Shaq for Iggy/Dalembert and the Sixers would save $21mil, so obviously we don't have the best offer out there (assuming Cleveland would even make that trade.)

Wouldn't philly be able to re-sign josh at a higher value than others? so they would get rid of salary plus have a serviceable player at 5 mill or so?

Underdog · 02-02-2010, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Wouldn't philly be able to re-sign josh at a higher value than others? so they would get rid of salary plus have a serviceable player at 5 mill or so?

That depends on whether they think Josh is serviceable enough.

If they're looking for talent, Portland could be a better suitor.

kg_veteran · 02-02-2010, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Salary-wise, Josh/Gooden/Carroll for Iggy/Dalembert works, then add JJB or Roddy to sweeten the deal talent-wise.

Let's assume Josh/Gooden/Carroll/JJB.

Dampier - Dalembert
Nowitzki -
Marion - Thomas
Iguodala - Terry
Kidd - Beaubois

I like the looks of that better than what we currently throw out there, for sure.

Kidd Karma · 02-02-2010, 12:41 PM

Celtics trying to move ray Allen:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archiv...to_deal_allen/

Are the Kings shopping Kevin Martin, Martin's gone off with Evans out.

bobatundi · 02-02-2010, 12:48 PM

Howard/Gooden/Carroll is what I had in mind. Obviously that involves Philly taking back Carroll's bad deal--but they're saving a ton of money with Howard & Gooden expiring. Oh, and if they want JJB for "talent" in the trade, I'll buy his plane ticket personally.

Here's a kick in the nuts--Howard/Gooden/Barea/Humphries would have worked, and not required Philly to eat Matt Carroll's salary. Maybe something can still get done that way--while we can't combine an exception in a trade, we could, I think, use the exception to acquire a player from another team and immediately include that player in a deal to Philly. Any player with a salary between $2,254,000 and $3,000,000 would work.

bobatundi · 02-02-2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Celtics trying to move ray Allen:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archiv...to_deal_allen/

Are the Kings shopping Kevin Martin, Martin's gone off with Evans out.

Ray Allen a couple years ago, absolutely. Ray Allen now...no way. Doesn't put us over the top, and has less S&T value than Josh at season's end.

Dirkenstien · 02-02-2010, 02:10 PM

If the Celtics are serious about trading Ray Allen then that could mean more competition for us in landing a quality player with Howard. They could do a lot with that massive expiring contract.

Dtownsfinest · 02-02-2010, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

I believe in acquiring talent firsty. However they need to make the pieces fit, a great coach will work that out. No one thought gooden and Dirk would work. granted its not consistent, but it works

I like the Gooden signing I just don't like when he and Dirk are on the court together. Especially defensively.

Kidd Karma · 02-02-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

BTW, here's a quote from Cuban via Gina Miller's blog:

The rest of the article is typical Cuban excuse-making, saying the team is "bored".

Isn't it funny how one week, Cuban has nothing brewing, then an article about doom and gloom about the new CBA with a hard cap and max salaries at 8 million. Possibly snailing lots of teams that had wanted to buy, thus eliminating some buyers/competitors from the list. Now this blip about Cuban saying things are heating up. I would not be surprised if Cuban tossed that hard cap garbage out to "sources."

Dtownsfinest · 02-02-2010, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobatundi

Ray Allen a couple years ago, absolutely. Ray Allen now...no way. Doesn't put us over the top, and has less S&T value than Josh at season's end.

I actually believe Ray is exactly what this team needs. A real 2 guard. Someone who can be a reliable scoring option night in and out. But if you would go after Allen you would still need to try to obtain a slasher. You need a shooter who Rick will be forced to play. No way in hell even Carlisle will play Barea over Ray Allen.

Dirkenstien · 02-02-2010, 02:49 PM

Trade Howard for Allen and knock out two birds with one stone. Allen makes us better this season and Howard playing for Boston effectively ruins any chance they may have had at a championship.

bobatundi · 02-02-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I actually believe Ray is exactly what this team needs. A real 2 guard. Someone who can be a reliable scoring option night in and out. But if you would go after Allen you would still need to try to obtain a slasher. You need a shooter who Rick will be forced to play. No way in hell even Carlisle will play Barea over Ray Allen.

Don't get me wrong--I'd prefer Ray Allen to Barea--but I think he's a has-been. His 3P% is way off this year, he plays no defense, he doesn't attack the basket and thus doesn't get to the free throw line. He's essentially the same player as Terry--maybe a better shooter, definitely older--and I absolutely cringe at the thought of having two such players on the floor.

Nowitzki4President · 02-02-2010, 03:35 PM

If Gooden were to be in a trade, he can still be waived and return right?

If so, I have no idea why no one has mentioned the Warriors, because from what I've heard, they're still looking to cut costs, why not go for Maggette and Ellis?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=yfcqpfj

LSMF · 02-02-2010, 03:36 PM

Now we want Ray Allen? Seriously?

SMC0007 · 02-02-2010, 03:51 PM

wait.. Idk, can you tell me who I want to come here and play?

bobatundi · 02-02-2010, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

If Gooden were to be in a trade, he can still be waived and return right?

If so, I have no idea why no one has mentioned the Warriors, because from what I've heard, they're still looking to cut costs, why not go for Maggette and Ellis?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=yfcqpfj

Works with Carroll instead of Gooden. If we're going to take on that kind of salary from them, they gotta eat something.

Maggette certainly gets to the line and scores at a high percentage, and Ellis is clearly a scorer as well...not sure what kind of defense either of them plays, and both shoot lousy % from 3, but I like the idea of adding two legitimate rotation guys for junk. Boy, that is a LOT of long-term salary to eat, though.

Nowitzki4President · 02-02-2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobatundi

Works with Carroll instead of Gooden. If we're going to take on that kind of salary from them, they gotta eat something.

Maggette certainly gets to the line and scores at a high percentage, and Ellis is clearly a scorer as well...not sure what kind of defense either of them plays, and both shoot lousy % from 3, but I like the idea of adding two legitimate rotation guys for junk. Boy, that is a LOT of long-term salary to eat, though.

It is a lot of long term salary, but I don't see Ellis's game declining any time soon, he's only like 24. Maggette on the other hand is older, 30, to be exact, but if we were willing to throw a similar contract to Marion, I'm sure Maggette wouldn't be that much of a difference, even better. Our line up would look a bit strange.

Damp/Gooden (when he comes back or if he never leaves)
Dirk/TT/Marion
Maggette/Marion
Ellis/JET/RoddyB
Kidd/Ellis/RoddyB

That's pretty freaking scary.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-02-2010, 05:33 PM

MacMahon reiterating what Jthig and I have said...

Quote:

Other than being trade bait due to his expiring contract, Josh Howard has basically become irrelevant to the Dallas Mavericks.

The best thing the Mavs can say about Howard is that he is being professional about his drastically reduced playing time. Just how few minutes Howard has earned is stunning, considering his recent status as a franchise cornerstone.

Howard played a season-low 11 minutes in Monday's loss to the Utah Jazz. Eleven. He had two points, three rebounds, two turnovers and three fouls in that span.

The Mavericks call Howard their sixth man, but it's clear that the coaches have more trust in reserves Drew Gooden and JJ Barea at this point.

quietsavant · 02-02-2010, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

MacMahon reiterating what Jthig and I have said...

Something I found interesting about Art Garcia's interview yesterday before the Jazz game :

He mentioned that Josh may finally be at peace with the fact that his time in Dallas is over. He knows that the team won't pick him up next summer, he knows he probably will be traded, he knows the FO doesn't have faith in him anymore, what more is there in him playing his heart out? Is it the ethical thing to do? Sure. But c'mon. We're talking josh here.

Also, he mentioned that everytime josh came up and didnt look for the pass and instead just put up another jumpshots, you can see the other players roll their eyes. I think the chemistry is the issue here

ShaggyDirk · 02-02-2010, 06:02 PM

preKiddJosh never returned...

iella · 02-02-2010, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaggyDirk

preKiddJosh never returned...

I think it's more appropriate to call him postHarrisJosh.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 02-02-2010, 08:36 PM

I bet you his sex life is dwindling too, confidence is everything.

dude1394 · 02-02-2010, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I actually believe Ray is exactly what this team needs. A real 2 guard. Someone who can be a reliable scoring option night in and out. But if you would go after Allen you would still need to try to obtain a slasher. You need a shooter who Rick will be forced to play. No way in hell even Carlisle will play Barea over Ray Allen.

Exactly how many positions do you think are one a basketball team? Jkiddo, R.Allen, ??, Dirk, Damp...Is there another slasher we are going to get to replace marion?

I mean we really need someone who can play at the end of the game and make a difference that isn't hitting a 3 or a jumpshot but getting to the paint and either finishing or dishing. Right now RC is forced to play JJB because he's the only person on the team who does it.

That's why I still want iggy over r.allen. I want someone who will take jets spot because we need them at the end of games.

jthig32 · 02-02-2010, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

Something I found interesting about Art Garcia's interview yesterday before the Jazz game :

He mentioned that Josh may finally be at peace with the fact that his time in Dallas is over. He knows that the team won't pick him up next summer, he knows he probably will be traded, he knows the FO doesn't have faith in him anymore, what more is there in him playing his heart out? Is it the ethical thing to do? Sure. But c'mon. We're talking josh here.

Also, he mentioned that everytime josh came up and didnt look for the pass and instead just put up another jumpshots, you can see the other players roll their eyes. I think the chemistry is the issue here

Wow. Who was this interview with?

quietsavant · 02-02-2010, 09:49 PM

All this team needs is Joe Johnson. The more I see this guy play, first of all, I can't believe this guy came off the bench in Phoenix. We don't need a superstar in Lebron, wade, or bosh. though some will argue Joejohnson is a superstar, he is our missing piece, but how do we court him?

quietsavant · 02-02-2010, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Wow. Who was this interview with?

The guys on gamenight. 103.3 KESN

AO41 · 02-02-2010, 09:52 PM

WHAT ABOUT THIS IDEA???

I am hoping that Josh is not here after the trade deadline, but its obvious we are having trouble finding anyone to take him. If we cant pull off a trade for IGGY or Martin I would go to the Bulls ans ask a strait up trade for Hinrich...I know to some it wouldnt make sense, but it makes a lot more sense than having Josh.

This is assuming that we cant get a good SG....

Kidd/ Hinrich
Hinrich/ Jet/ Ross
Marion/TT/ Singleton
Dirk/ Gooden/ TT
Damp/ Gooden/ ??

...Kidd can guard the SG and Hinrich the PG when they are out there. I think Hinrich will give us another good shooter and passer out there. Again I know its not a perfect option, but IMO its better than Josh

Thespiralgoeson · 02-02-2010, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

All this team needs is Joe Johnson. The more I see this guy play, first of all, I can't believe this guy came off the bench in Phoenix. We don't need a superstar in Lebron, wade, or bosh. though some will argue Joejohnson is a superstar, he is our missing piece, but how do we court him?

Joe Johnson is about as available as Kobe or Duncan. He's not leaving Atlanta anytime soon.

quietsavant · 02-02-2010, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Joe Johnson is about as available as Kobe or Duncan. He's not leaving Atlanta anytime soon.

Well everyone is available. At the right price, is the caveat .
Actually read about chicago wanting to make a push for him, in the summer.

EDIT: kobe himself was on the tray not too long ago

Thespiralgoeson · 02-02-2010, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

Well everyone is available.

No, they're not. Joe Johnson is simply not available. Not for the right price. Not for any price. Atlanta is not letting him go for anything, let alone for anything we can give them.

Quote:

EDIT: kobe himself was on the tray not too long ago

That was because Kobe himself WANTED to be on the tray. He put himself there. You think the Lakers actually wanted to trade him?

quietsavant · 02-02-2010, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

No, they're not. Joe Johnson is simply not available. Not for the right price. Not for any price. Atlanta is not letting him go for anything, let alone for anything we can give them.

That was because Kobe himself WANTED to be on the tray. He put himself there. You think the Lakers actually wanted to trade him?

ok buddy.