living and dying with the big three - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 05-12-2002, 10:01 AM

A big part of the series has been with the play of the big three in the last couple of games down the stretch. There have been missed looks, poor passes, poor decisions, poor shots, and numerous turnovers.
The Mavs have lived and died by the big three in the clutch. Unfortunately, in the last two games, the mavs have died.

One thing we must look at is "should we expect the mavs to come up big offensively every game in the playoffs?" or is that simply too much to ask.

The mavs have a tremendous amount of pressure to score every time down the court because they know that on the other side, they don't stop anyone..and when they do force a missed shot, there's often a second and third look.
This is the real problem with the mavs.

The Mavs have one guy that consistently rebounds with the big boys. That's Dirk. Raef isn't a consistent rebounder. Fin isn't a good rebounder from the 3 spot (nor should can he realistically be expected to), nve and nash aren't particularly good rebounders from their positions on the court either.

On defense, the combination of NVE, Lafrentz, Dirk, Fin, and Nash.. well, you don't have a good man to man defender in the bunch. Lafrentz is a good helpside defender but doesn't have the lateral quickness to become a really good overall defender. He's burned man to man and doesn't board enough to reach that level.

The other four, well..none of them have played any defense this series. All four of them need to look in the mirrors and decide whether or not they are willing to do something about it. I have a feeling that dirk will work on his defense because he has made strides every year. Fin, i think it simply takes more want to on the defensive end. Nash and nve, i've never seen two guards shredded so much in a playoff series. I don't know if the mavs can afford to have that combination going into next year.
Raef, I think he'll be helped by better perimeter defense. If there's less driving by opposing guards, he can stay out of foul trouble and be more aggressive with his man.

However, there's another solution. Regardless of whether or not the mavs find a miracle in their pockets and pull out a round 2 win, i think the mavs need to take some serious consideration to making this team better.
The mavs need someone at the two or three spot that can play defense on a guard and can score 14-16 points a game. It would also be nice to have a big man that can body up inside and grab some boards.
Does this mean breaking up the big 5?
Yes, it does. The mavs should take a very close look at what they can do in the offseason to upgrade this defense without destroying their ability to run and put up alot of points on the board.

Why should they do this?
You simply cannot put your players in a position where they must come up big every night on the offensive end. At some point, the offense is going to need a stop or two from the defense. The mavs have reached that point.

MFFL · 05-12-2002, 10:08 AM

Well Nellie theory that you can outscore the opposition in the postseason has been proven wrong. Looks at the playoffs in other sports. In baseball great pitching beats great hittings. In football great defense beats great offense (most of the time). Hockey is the same as well. Why does Nellie think that offense can prevail in the NBA. Even the Lakers of Showtime fame could play good defense. They started Kurt Rambis just for defense and rebounding. The Celtics of old were a great defensive team for the era as well.

Until this team can play defense (rebounding I'm not as worried about) we will NOT advance any further in the playoffs.

irontoad · 05-12-2002, 10:34 AM

If the mavs can't win the next game (being a do or die situation) against a team they're better than or at least equal to with the big three talent, then things look pretty dismal... but look for the big three to step up on monday.

Bayliss · 05-12-2002, 10:35 AM

There's an adage:

"Offense scores points, defense wins championships."

But the real kicker is Nellie won't change. He has some defensive stoppers. They are called Griff and Buck. He has an inside banger who loves punishment. His name is Esch. Does Nellie play them? Sparingly. We are **capable** on defense if Nellie would sacrific a little offensive scoring punch with a little defensive presence.

But Nellie won't do that. And that is why he's regarded as a second rounder. My dad believes if Phil Jackson was coaching this team, we would win the NBA championship. As much as I hate Phil, I have to agree with my dad.

MFFL · 05-12-2002, 10:41 AM

Rebounding help for Dirk might already be in house. These are regular season stats.

Najera - in the games where he played over 20 minutes (35 of them)
26.9 min, 7.2 rebounds, 8.4 points

LaFrentz - since he's been a Maverick
29.1 min, 7.4 rebounds, 10.8 points

I can't imagine Nellie not playing Najera 20 minutes a game next season or LaFrentz not improving to a 10 point/8 board guy (basically what Dale Davis is).

Bayliss · 05-12-2002, 10:45 AM

<< I can't imagine Nellie not playing Najera 20 minutes a game next season or LaFrentz not improving to a 10 point/8 board guy (basically what Dale Davis is). >>

But whose minutes are we going to cut to get Najera on the floor?

Right now he plays his best at power forward, however Dirk gets the majority of minutes there. If you do play Najera at power forward you move Dirk to center? I hate that idea. Dirk is not a center and never will be. If you move Najera to small forward then you are cutting down Buck, and Griff's minutes.

MFFL · 05-12-2002, 10:49 AM

Dirk is as capable of a center as Bradley or Esch but he can also play SF.

My assumption about Najera is based on Buckner leaving and us trading Bradley and/or Esch.

Bayliss · 05-12-2002, 10:55 AM

<< Dirk is as capable of a center as Bradley or Esch but he can also play SF. >>

Dirk rebounds the ball better than both however Bradley's a better defender and Esch is a better banger.

<< My assumption about Najera is based on Buckner leaving and us trading Bradley and/or Esch. >>

And what about Wahad? Do you think he can be a 14-16 point scorer while being a good defender? Maybe he can....

dude1394 · 05-12-2002, 11:05 AM

Bayliss -- I heard that you have an analysis of the Sac Pick and Roll being used against us. I would love to hear it as I was at the game and didn't have a chance to really look at it.

I think most of the folks here are right on..

Nash - PG
Finley - SG (HAS TO WORK ON HIS HANDLES)
Small Forward - Najera
Dirk - PF
Raef - Center.

Van Excel off the bench for Nash.
Wahad (assuming he gets back) comes in for Finley and/or Najera. Wang for Dirk/Raef. Center I just don't know. Maybe Esch but Nelson just seems to have no confidence in him.
Some more rebounding and Najera-sized active players.

Mavs4Fin · 05-12-2002, 03:48 PM

finleys not the only who needs to work on something "dude"

dude1394 · 05-12-2002, 04:25 PM

<< finleys not the only who needs to work on something "dude" >>

Agreed but his handles would be the most significant thing that he could do with his game. With better handles Fin would become almost unstoppable.

Mavs4Fin · 05-12-2002, 04:47 PM

this is not just about fin, theres quite a few things that both the other big 3 needs to improve on too, but you failed to mention them. you mention only fin, when we all know theres quite a few things dirk and nash needs to work on too.

mavs_afroman · 05-12-2002, 05:23 PM

I think part of problem is the lineup Nellie loves to play at crunch time of Nash, NVE, Finley, Dirk,and Raef. 5 scorers can be deadly but in the end it comes down to the scoring of the Big 3. So why have NVE in there(LaFrentz's shot blocking does help some games so its a toss up.) I'm pretty sure the Big 3 could handle the scoring for the last minutes of the game so why not throw in two other defenders and rebounders for the other end. Griff, Buckner, and Najera have all shown the ability to come up with some big rebounds and stops as well as shots when needed. Nellie did use this more against Minny but I think he's been suckered in by Sacramento's style of play.

MFFL · 05-12-2002, 05:59 PM

Why is everyone picking on Finley all of a sudden? He has been very solid this series, the best of the big three.

Mavs4Fin · 05-12-2002, 07:08 PM

exactly MFFL, I agree.

Drbio · 05-12-2002, 07:25 PM

Why is everyone picking on Finley all of a sudden? He has been very solid this series, the best of the big three.

Without a doubt.

MavsFanFinley · 05-12-2002, 09:57 PM

I guess I have no clue what taking care of the ball means?? Or handles as we like to use.

I thought turnovers were the best stat to base that on?? Surely, doesn't tell the whole story, but...

I think Fin has done an excellent job of taking care of the ball in the playoffs, especially with all the driving he's been doing.

Isn't that where he's most vulnerable? He either has it stripped or dribbles it off his foot. I don't think we've seen a lot of that.

He only had 8 turnovers in the Minnesota series. (2.6) A little high, I guess.

Thus far, he only has 4 turnovers against the Kings. And he's been matched up with Christie quite a bit too. (1)

Of course, I could have my blinders on. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]

dude1394 · 05-12-2002, 10:04 PM

<< this is not just about fin, theres quite a few things that both the other big 3 needs to improve on too, but you failed to mention them. you mention only fin, when we all know theres quite a few things dirk and nash needs to work on too. >>

I'm not trying to attribute any "blame" on finley. He has played very well in the playoffs. But look at what Kobe has been able to do in the playoffs. Finley has this sort of talent as well IF he could handle better.

Finley just looks like a motherload of talent untapped, that really could be.

And sure there are lots of things that everyone (including myself and yourself) can do to improve. But it is rare when something can make such a quantum leap in performance like Fins handles could.

Bayliss · 05-12-2002, 10:06 PM

MFF, don't think you have blinders on BUT the turnovers don't tell the whole story. Just like assists don't tell the whole story on Dirk's passing.

Dirk has struggled with passing in this series yet looking at the numbers it appears he hasn't.

Finley struggles in two areas while dribbling:
1) he cannot go left **at all** I have yet to see him ever dribble with his left hand.
2) he doesn't dribble well in traffic.

Fin does need to work on that part just as Dirk needs to work on his passing....

dude1394 · 05-12-2002, 10:07 PM

Folks... I am NOT "picking" on Fin. But just like Dirk needs to work on his defense and passing and low-post game, finley needs to work on his ability to use the dribble to attack offensively.

I just put (work on his handles) when I listed him and everyone is so sensitive about finley bashing that you jumped all over it. Finley is an all-star, but I think he could be a mega-star if he could handle the ball better. Ok...

MavsFanFinley · 05-12-2002, 10:17 PM

Fin does need to work on that part....

Couldn't agree more.

Very frustrating to know that he can drive and dunk on anyone, but has the ball stripped at times. And don't get me started on the part where he dribbles it off his foot. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Murphy3 · 05-13-2002, 07:40 AM

the reason fin can't drive on anyone is because he doesn't go left that well... is it something he can work on? i hope so, because instead of topping off at this point, he can actually get better.

however, let's concentrate on the reason why the mavs are down

defense and rebounding

Drbio · 05-13-2002, 04:50 PM

defense and rebounding

This is what is killing us in this series.