$hillary vs. Drumpf

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by tap2390

You're right that America is divided, but Donald Trump plays on those fears and is escalating things further in my eyes.

I fully understand your argument, but my response is that it's not entirely Trump's fault. I view Trump as the product of our society. He is the result of the political comedians like John Oliver with his snappy one-liners, of the Facebook memes, or the tweets that give voice to the borderline-crazies, and everything else like that in our media.

Originally Posted by tap2390

Fearful of illegal immigrants? He has rhetoric for you. Fearful of muslims? He has more rhetoric for you.

Note: These are more rhetorical questions but they are the thoughts that run through my mind.

Are you not afraid? When you see what's happening in other countries, do you wish you lived there instead of the US? When a university student runs over people in his car, crashes, gets out and tries to kill more with a knife, you know what the media narrative is? "Well at least he didn't have a gun. See? Life is better without guns!" Seriously??? Why is the focus on a beat down topic like gun control and not on why did he do it in the first place? If he is a recent immigrant (which he is), how did he get here? And then most important, how do we prevent this from 1) happening again and 2) escalating to something even worse next time?

Originally Posted by tap2390

What's the solution for disadvantaged black communities? Stop and frisk.

Improving our education system should be THE NUMBER ONE priority. You want a better life for future generations? Then make it attainable. But and this is a huge BUT, it takes more than just a great school/teacher to make it happen. If students and parents don't buy in, then it's not going to happen. In addition to improving the schools, we need an all out media assault in getting kids to realize that their future is in the classroom and not on a basketball court, a football field, or a minimum wage job, or heaven help us selling drugs for fast money.

And since you mentioned "stop and frisk", safety has to be paramount in order to get kids into the schools and in an environment conducive to learning. I'll agree that trust has to be established and maintained between the people and the police agencies. I'm not sure on your line of thinking on this so I won't go any farther.

Originally Posted by tap2390

His protectionism isn't limited to trade deals, and it's given white supremacists not just a platform but is also legitimizing their very dangerous ideas.

I'll admit, I'm not clear on this whole white supremacist viewpoint of Trump. Can you elaborate on this? However, I don't believe he has connections to the KKK like the media wants to insinuate. And I don't think his comments are 100% genuine either. I think he's a bit of a blow-hard and says things without realizing that it is not politically correct. I don't agree with those things but I'm also completely beat down with "political correctness" being rammed down my throat and coming out my ass. But again, I'm middle-aged white guy so ... yeah, I guess I'm racist/mysognist.

Originally Posted by tap2390

If you think Obama caused a divide what exactly do you think Trump will do? (This isn't a sarcastic or rhetorical question, I genuinely wonder if you believe we will come together under Trump).

Honestly, I think Trump is in a lose-lose scenario. Outside of bringing about world peace, he will be labeled a horrible president at least for the next few generations. My hope is that something good actually comes out of his term and things at least improve. As for those improvements, see some of the above and below ...

Originally Posted by tap2390

Trump has certain ideas I agree with. This country does need an influx of money and work on infrastructure. This country does need term limits. This country does need to limit the power of lobbyists. But do the benefits outweigh the costs?

Infastructure is a starting point, but that is low income work for the most part and also limited on lifetime as once it's complete, those jobs go away. As I stated above, education should be this nation's top priority. Term limits and lobbyists? Oh geeze. I cannot stand career politicians and that could be a completely separate discussion.

Originally Posted by tap2390

Many white American said "yes." Many non-white Americans, including myself, are wondering where this leaves us. Whether America is the inclusive, diverse nation we were sold on.

I've had this inclusive and diverse conversation with a friend (another middle-age white guy for reference). We've wondered if the "melting-pot" is getting too deep. I honestly don't want to go down the racist road on this but it's a very fine line I'll agree. Is there a point where people cannot get along/mix/merge/assimilate? I don't think skin color, height, weight, speaking accents, etc. are anything that should be hung up on. But what about religion? What about political extremes like democracy vs communism? What about viewpoint 'xyz'?

I'm not hung up on the exact reason, but I'm just asking is there something that legitimately says people group A and people group B should not be living in the same country? And if so, what happens when A and B attempt to do so?

Originally Posted by tap2390

If you don't want to discuss this further I understand, but I honestly would greatly enjoy the chance to converse with you.

Honestly, I love these kinds of conversations but it takes specific people to be able to voice what is in their head without fear of lashback. And this is exactly how people changes their minds/viewpoints. They realize that maybe what they thought is not entirely correct ... or they get confirmation and are able to better articulate their stance. Hopefully, I haven't opened myself up to an internet shit storm from this community but you lured me into a good discussion.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Are you not afraid? When you see what's happening in other countries, do you wish you lived there instead of the US? When a university student runs over people in his car, crashes, gets out and tries to kill more with a knife, you know what the media narrative is? "Well at least he didn't have a gun. See? Life is better without guns!" Seriously??? Why is the focus on a beat down topic like gun control and not on why did he do it in the first place? If he is a recent immigrant (which he is), how did he get here? And then most important, how do we prevent this from 1) happening again and 2) escalating to something even worse next time?

I think you have to have some sort of disorder to actually see the world from this perspective. There literally wasn't a single person on the planet saying anything remotely similar to that.

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I think you have to have some sort of disorder to actually see the world from this perspective. There literally wasn't a single person on the planet saying anything remotely similar to that.

Actually, yes this was being said on 1310 the very next morning. Gordon in his fake redneck voice went on a "students should have been packing". And then the next 10 minutes was devoted to their opinions on whether university students should be allowed to carry guns.

So yeah, the disorder is called liberalism. Hate to break it to ya.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I fully understand your argument, but my response is that it's not entirely Trump's fault. I view Trump as the product of our society. He is the result of the political comedians like John Oliver with his snappy one-liners, of the Facebook memes, or the tweets that give voice to the borderline-crazies, and everything else like that in our media.

LOL, you can't blame John Oliver and social media for Trump being the way he is -- that guy has been pulling this shtick since the 1980s.

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by Underdog

LOL, you can't blame John Oliver and social media for Trump being the way he is -- that guy has been pulling this shtick since the 1980s.

My point was that Trump is president because of that kind of media crap. The state we are in is the result of our society. We live in a me-first, 30 second attention span society right now. Snappy one liners and tweets are what's in.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

My point was that Trump is president because of that kind of media crap. The state we are in is the result of our society. We live in a me-first, 30 second attention span society right now. Snappy one liners and tweets are what's in.

Trump is the king of snappy tweets and one liners. The guy gets offended by SNL.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

My point was that Trump is president because of that kind of media crap. The state we are in is the result of our society. We live in a me-first, 30 second attention span society right now. Snappy one liners and tweets are what's in.

I can agree to the extent that the voters have been shaped by social media and snappy one liners -- but Trump himself isn't a product of that... More like he contributed to the creation of that type of media consumer, then took advantage of it when this country plunged back into levels of ignorance and apathy that we haven't seen in several generations (that goes for both sides, hence the #1 and #2 most-despised presidential candidates in US history -- worse than Herbert Hoover, Richard Nixon, or the guy who Yoko'd America -- Abraham Lincoln!)

I also agree that we're a me-first society... Everyone is a special little snowflake -- from the safe-space, Bernie-voting millennial, to the upper-middle class boomer who feels entitled to cutting you off in traffic because their car is more expensive than yours, to the minority of all minorities, to Freddy Trump's specialest little snowflake; Donny... The problem with America is Americans. We've turned into a bunch of group-thinking bitches who need to be spoon-fed our beliefs because we no longer have any individual convictions. Our parents raised us wrong but we're too narcissistic to understand that.

We're a nation built on cognitive dissonance -- where a pro feminist, pro-homosexual voter can also be pro-Islam (a religion that opposes both in scripture), or where a pro-life voter can be all about "human rights" until that baby is born, then f*ck 'em -- no social safety net for you! (which is why their broke-ass mother probably sought an abortion in the first place)... Both parties are massively hypocritical, shaping the voters into whichever direction gets the politicians re-elected, instead of the voter shaping the political party based on their individual beliefs... That's why under Bush, the Republicans were pro-war while the Democrats were anti-war, but under Obama, the Republicans were anti-war while the Democrats were pro-war -- even though it's the SAME war!

The problem with this country can be found in the mirror -- and we're all guilty... Well, except for the nihilists (which must be exhausting....)

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I can agree to the extent that the voters have been shaped by social media and snappy one liners -- but Trump himself isn't a product of that... More like he contributed to the creation of that type of media consumer, then took advantage of it when this country plunged back into levels of ignorance and apathy that we haven't seen in several generations (that goes for both sides, hence the #1 and #2 most-despised presidential candidates in US history -- worse than Herbert Hoover, Richard Nixon, or the guy who Yoko'd America -- Abraham Lincoln!)

I also agree that we're a me-first society... Everyone is a special little snowflake -- from the safe-space, Bernie-voting millennial, to the upper-middle class boomer who feels entitled to cutting you off in traffic because their car is more expensive than yours, to the minority of all minorities, to Freddy Trump's specialest little snowflake; Donny... The problem with America is Americans. We've turned into a bunch of group-thinking bitches who need to be spoon-fed our beliefs because we no longer have any individual convictions. Our parents raised us wrong but we're too narcissistic to understand that.

We're a nation built on cognitive dissonance -- where a pro feminist, pro-homosexual voter can also be pro-Islam (a religion that opposes both in scripture), or where a pro-life voter can be all about "human rights" until that baby is born, then f*ck 'em -- no social safety net for you! (which is why their broke-ass mother probably sought an abortion in the first place)... Both parties are massively hypocritical, shaping the voters into whichever direction gets the politicians re-elected, instead of the voter shaping the political party based on their individual beliefs... That's why under Bush, the Republicans were pro-war while the Democrats were anti-war, but under Obama, the Republicans were anti-war while the Democrats were pro-war -- even though it's the SAME war!

The problem with this country can be found in the mirror -- and we're all guilty... Well, except for the nihilists (which must be exhausting....)

This is a bit of what drives me insane. I personally can't stand Trump or Clinton. As I've grown older, I've gone from leaning slightly to the left to leaning towards the right (just wanted to be honest)... But the hyperbole from both sides drives me insane. Trump isn't evil. If you're a transexual and committing suicide because he was elected..well, you're probably overreacting a bit. Hillary isn't necessarily evil either. They both have a long list of issues. It just bothers me that so many on either side refuses to look in the mirror to see their candidate's own issues. The people crying in disbelief because Hillary lost...? Blame your party. It took a special kind of idiot to lose to Donald Trump. Not any garbage candidate could have done it. Hillary was just about the only garbage candidate that could have accomplished such an impressive loss. So instead of protesting and hurling insults at your opponent.. Examine why your candidate lost. Otherwise, all you're doing is pushing more and more people in the middle to the right. The college students that had to have their exams re-scheduled because of the election...yeah, you're doing nothing to help your cause at all. Your pushing your party further off the deep end. That's just a little free advice. I'm not charging for it... And do not get me wrong. I don't like Trump. So few people do like the guy... Again, only Hillary was capable of losing to this moron which shows just how bad of a candidate she was.