attempt at getting Donyell Marshall - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

endtroducing · 09-17-2004, 10:26 PM

Dallas trades:
SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.7 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (3.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.7 minutes)
Dallas receives:
PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 36.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +2.8 ppg, +1.7 rpg, and -0.3 apg.

Toronto trades:
PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 36.5 minutes)

Toronto receives:
SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 67 games)
C Shawn Bradley (3.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 66 games)
Change in team outlook: -2.8 ppg, -1.7 rpg, and +0.3 apg.

Toronto gets some sorely needed help at center...Dallas cleans the glut out at that position (Dampier/Booth handling the duties), and the Raps get a great player in Howard, who can play either the 2 or 3 when one of those softies is hurt (which is most of the time). for what we get in return, I don't think this deal is unfair at all.

Terry/Harris
Daniels/Stackhouse
Finley/Marshall
Nowitzki/Marshall/Henderson
Dampier/Booth

Marshall can play both forwards, Henderson can actually prove to be kind of useful. the SG/SF rotation is pretty much set as it is...they're basically washes in this offense anyways.

StvNash13 · 09-18-2004, 02:28 PM

I have a hard time believing that after trying so hard to keep Howard out of all the deals this summer the Mavs would trade him now. Plus, I don't really see why Marshall would be very useful to us (def not more useful than Josh and Bradley, and i still expect Hendu to be the backup)

seal614 · 09-18-2004, 05:41 PM

um, have we not learned that taking a STARTING pf and giving him 8-10 minutes per game behind a rising star will cause said pf to be unhappy.

We all love the stats and the fact that he's a player everybody knows, but in order to fill the backup pf slot... you would typically trade for a BACKUP POWER FORWARD.

Hey guys, let's trade for KG to slot in behind Dirk. Shaq behind Damp? Carter behind Finley, Quis etc...

Doesn't work, look at Shareef in Portland... fuck 8-10 minutes he's threatening not to play at all.

- Brian

endtroducing · 09-18-2004, 08:59 PM

um, Marshall isn't a 'marquee' player, and doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Garnett. plus, his contract is expiring...we have more flexibility and more help at a position where it's needed. Marshall gives us roughly the same minutes and fills the same spot as Howard, except he's got more game and he's more experienced and has an expiring contract. I don't see the problem.

seal614 · 09-19-2004, 11:26 AM

ok enjoy.

dalmations202 · 09-19-2004, 03:41 PM

I have no problem with Donyell Marshall as the backup to Dirk, and playing some SF. Heck, he played backup to Karl Malone for a few years, and was pretty good at it.

I do have a problem with Howard, Bradley for him though.

If you want to move Henderson, TAW, Esch, Dickau, or Booth -- or any combination thereof for him, then I am all for it. But not Bradley and Howard (who will have big roles with the Mavs) for a player that will not get 20min and is in the latter half of his career.

EricaLubarsky · 09-19-2004, 03:43 PM

dalmations, one problem with your logic- Booth will have a bigger role than Bradley this year.

dalmations202 · 09-20-2004, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
dalmations, one problem with your logic- Booth will have a bigger role than Bradley this year.

I understand what you are saying because of Nellie. If though, Nellie actually starts playing a half-court offense with Damp, and emphasizing defense (who knows), then Bradley ends up being much more of a defensive backup to Damp, than Booth does. I am guessing that early in the year, Booth is the 5 backup, but by mid year, Bradley is getting about 14 min a game as Damps backup, and Booth is getting the bulk at backup PF (because Henderson is injured again). Who knows, maybe you will be right. You definately have the history of how Nellie handles Bradley on your opinions side.

endtroducing · 09-20-2004, 08:30 AM

you guys realize, right, without a guy like Marshall...if Dirk were to be injured...Henderson would start. does anyone want THAT? honestly here...if toronto would agree to this, it would be a STEAL.

a third-string center and a bench player for a starting caliber PF that fills our one huge need? he can play PF and SF, he's a better scorer than Bradley and Howard combined, and a good rebounder. he's a Nellie guy to the bone, too. a veteran with an expiring contract, or a center that won't play and a SF that has no way into the rotation? hmm, you decide...not to mention the fact that we lose a roster spot, since it's two for one.

just the fact that you guys seem willing to throw Henderson or Donnell Harvey out as a starter is frightening enough.

Terry, Harris, Daniels, Dickau (cut)
Daniels, Stackhouse, Finley
Finley, Stackhouse, Marshall
Nowitzki, Marshall, Henderson
Dampier, Booth, Eschmeyer (cut)

IR: TAW, Benga, Pavel

vinnieponte · 09-20-2004, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
dalmations, one problem with your logic- Booth will have a bigger role than Bradley this year.

Erica, that is by far the best thing you have said all off season, for once we now agree!

EricaLubarsky · 09-20-2004, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: vinnieponte

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
dalmations, one problem with your logic- Booth will have a bigger role than Bradley this year.

Erica, that is by far the best thing you have said all off season, for once we now agree!

we only agree on his role. I think he should have a bigger role, but I see him playing less and less.

mavsman221 · 09-19-2004, 08:42 PM

there are still some free agents that might be willing to play a backup role. sign and trade for stromile swift? keon clark(if hes not injured)? karl malone? probably won't happen but i'm just kinda throwing all that in. oh yeah, does anyone know what is going on between the mavs and avery johnson?

Poindexter Einstein · 09-19-2004, 10:13 PM

Swift is restricted and has said he will only sign with Memphis, Clark is a character risk (in a major way) that the Mavs want no part of, and Malone is injured for life.

Besides, in their eyes, Mavs dont have enough need to go sign anyone else.

Mavs will sign Avery sometime this week to a player contract.

fin4life · 09-19-2004, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
Swift is restricted and has said he will only sign with Memphis, Clark is a character risk (in a major way) that the Mavs want no part of, and Malone is injured for life.

Besides, in their eyes, Mavs dont have enough need to go sign anyone else.

Mavs will sign Avery sometime this week to a player contract.

yea, the only player besides AJ that i can see the mavs signing is donnell harvey. Even without harvey, booth/henderson is probaly a good enough tandem to play backup PF

EricaLubarsky · 09-20-2004, 01:23 AM

Quote:

yea, the only player besides AJ that i can see the mavs signing is donnell harvey. Even without harvey, booth/henderson is probaly a good enough tandem to play backup PF

exactly right and for good reason. Harvey is a role player that would fill in the iffy spot defensively in between the 3 and 4, but mostly the 3 because all of our threes are natural 2 guards except for Howard who is great but only 6'7", 210lbs. The 6'8" 225lb Harvey would be able to play that small, weak area between the 3 and 4 and wouldn't expect playing time.

and I'm not sure if it's time to discount Henderson yet. He was a solid player the last time he was healthy and if he is indeed healthy this season, like we've heard from the organization, he is a nice guy with plenty of muscle that could ease the +/- when Dirk goes out. It wouldnt be beyond him to do 10mpg, 2.5ppg, 3.8rpg which is all we really need from there.

sike · 09-20-2004, 02:51 PM

that said murph, who do you think will get the majority of PT behind Damp...Booth or Shawn?

Murphy3 · 09-21-2004, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
that said murph, who do you think will get the majority of PT behind Damp...Booth or Shawn?

Initially, Booth will get more PT until it becomes painfully obvious that Bradley is the better player. Perhaps even Nellie and vinniepointe will be able to see this at some point in time.

sike · 09-21-2004, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
that said murph, who do you think will get the majority of PT behind Damp...Booth or Shawn?

Initially, Booth will get more PT until it becomes painfully obvious that Bradley is the better player. Perhaps even Nellie and vinniepointe will be able to see this at some point in time.

other than mobility...there is no part of Booth's game is better than Shawn's...poor Shawn' awkwardardness blinds so many to his effectiveness...sadly, I bet its Calvin's job to lose.
remember, they are probably going to be fighting over about 10-12 min a game...no doubt Shawn can get more done in that time span.

dalmations202 · 09-21-2004, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
that said murph, who do you think will get the majority of PT behind Damp...Booth or Shawn?

Initially, Booth will get more PT until it becomes painfully obvious that Bradley is the better player. Perhaps even Nellie and vinniepointe will be able to see this at some point in time.

other than mobility...there is no part of Booth's game is better than Shawn's...poor Shawn' awkwardardness blinds so many to his effectiveness...sadly, I bet its Calvin's job to lose.
remember, they are probably going to be fighting over about 10-12 min a game...no doubt Shawn can get more done in that time span.

I think both of you are dead on. But, I think how Henderson plays will be the biggest determining factor. If he plays well, then Booth is at the 5. If he is injured or doesn't play well, I think Booth gets most of his minutes behind Dirk.

sike · 09-21-2004, 10:51 AM

Quote:

I think both of you are dead on. But, I think how Henderson plays will be the biggest determining factor. If he plays well, then Booth is at the 5. If he is injured or doesn't play well, I think Booth gets most of his minutes behind Dirk.

I've advocated this from the start....from a money standpoint, I'd sit Hendu and let the insurance pick up most of that 8mil and let Booth play those 10min of each game Drik sits...Dirk38min/Booth10 and Damp36/Bradley12 would be fine with me

alby · 09-21-2004, 12:24 PM

sounds to me from the press conference, hendu will be our backup pf.. so no sitting down and letting insurance pay for him

dalmations202 · 09-21-2004, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: alby
sounds to me from the press conference, hendu will be our backup pf.. so no sitting down and letting insurance pay for him

For how many games, with his injury history??

Poindexter Einstein · 09-21-2004, 08:48 PM

DALM ... if you look at Henderson's "injury history" it appears that he gets an injury, then rehabs really well. Following an injury season, he has played 70+ games in the following year. He has never had two consecutive seasons where he missed a bulk of the games due to injury.

He again has spent time rehabbing and getting healthy, so he should be reliable for this year.

VINNIE .... before you get in a rush to give away Bradley, take a look at what other teams are doing to try to get a backup center. There is real junk out there THAT IS BEING CHASED, and having Bradley as 3rd team is a great security blanket. In addition, his contract is quite reasonable for a big man. (Bradley as the starter isn't good enough. But in a 2nd or 3rd team role, he is about as good as it gets in this league.)

The Mavs have been center-deprived for way too long. Let's keep our excess, and then cash some of it in WHEN WE REALLY NEED SOMETHING. This roster is loaded at every position already - if we cash in Bradley for talent, we wouldn't know what to do with it.

Right now, if we use Bradley to trade for more talent, we are the kid in the candy story, with both pockets bulging with candy, a tummy ache from eating too much sweets, and our mouth crammed full. And we have a fistful of dollars, and are dying to spend it on more candy.

Now is not the time.