Keep it up dems.

[dude1394]

Yuck, huck, huck. I'll be surprised if dubya can even find the right side of the lectern. Huck,huck,huck...

richards

Ann Richards: Bush debate style simple
By David Callender
September 25, 2004

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry will likely have one major obstacle to overcome as he prepares for his debate with President Bush next week, warns former Texas Gov. Ann Richards.

Kerry, like Richards and other Democrats who have faced Bush in past debates, probably knows too much.

"As a consequence, we see issues in less simplistic terms than the president. The president speaks in terms that are so simple on the most complex issues that it sort of leaves you with your mouth hanging open," says Richards, who was unseated by Bush 10 years ago this fall.

[Epitome22]

Look, you can argue about the character and the principles of George Bush all you want. You can dismiss the importance of 'verbal' intelligence and argue that Bush has alot of 'natural knowledge' or 'common sense' or whatever makes you secure. The point still remains that the man, for all his alleged virtues, is a simpleton. Even Christopher Hitchens, who has been supporting Bush and hoping for his re-election, described him as "remarkably unintelligent" Richard Perle, his own national defense advisor, described him as a "man who doesen't know much"

[dude1394]

I think you are right e22. I'm sure kerry is going to mop the floor up with him. In fact since Kerry has been a master debater, lawyer, in the senate, speaks french and all he should just waste dubya. If he doesn't blow him out of the debate waters then it's a complete failure for him.

[Epitome22]

Actually I doubt Kerry will have a very strong debate. I'm sure despite his ability to seemingly talk circles around himself, he's much stronger at a conventional debate than Bush would be. But he will fail due to no fault of his own, but the handicap in place. As has been uttered, Bush isn't exactly a Rhodes Scholar and all Americans, especially his supporters can sense this. As such, the expectations needed to be met on his part are so drastically low than as one pundit put it "as long as he doesen't swallow his tongue and forget his name" he'll be given the benefit of the doubt.

[dude1394]

Well I wouldn't say that the dems last candidate (gore) or kerry are exactly "rhodes" scholars either, in fact their academic career really doesn't eclipse dubya's by any stretch.

[Mavdog]

In 2001, President George W. Bush accepted an honorary doctorate from his alma mater Yale University. "To those of you who received honors, awards and distinctions, I say, well done," Bush declared. "And to the 'C' students, I say: you too can be president!"

[Murphy3]

What's your point? GPA is by no means a definitive indicator of intelligence. Many of the most intelligent people that I have ever met were bored so badly by school that they did only as much as they had to to get by.

That being said, I don't necessarily believe that Bush is by any means an extremely intelligent human being. However, Kerry has proven to be sorely lacking in common sense at the same time. Any person that constantly flip-flops back and forth believing that the American public is so stupid to not notice surely is lacking in intelligence on some level.

[Mavdog]

dude made a mistaken statement about their "academic career", in which I would say that Kerry's record outshines Dubya's. That he made better academic marks surely doesn't make him (or anybody) more qualified to be pres IMO.

That being said, I agree that GPA"s do not define intelligence, just success in the classroom. While I believe that it is almost impossible to not be intelligent and be successful in school, it's all too common for someone intelligent not showing success in the classroom.

I disagree with you, Dubya is an intelligent person. Kerry is an intelligent guy too, and frankly he's stumbling over that intelligence right now. Bush has a good grasp of what he should be saying and doing to win, and is staying on mark.

[dude1394]

I wouldn't necessarily call completing a lawyers degree at a relatively second tier university more qualified than an MBA at one of the most prestigious in the world. I don't really know about grades perse.

[Mavdog]

you have a unique view of what a "second tier university" is...US News ranks Boston College law school among the top 30 in the country.

using grades is really one of the only ways I can think of to compare academic acheivement. do you have another?

[seal614]

Originally posted by: Mavdog
While I believe that it is almost impossible to not be intelligent and be successful in school, it's all too common for someone intelligent not showing success in the classroom.

I agree with you for the most part about the relationship between intelligence and GPA. I will say, however, that GPA when used across schools or even disciplines in the same school becomes irrelevant. Grade inflation is so prevelant in liberal arts and many of the best institutions.

I attend the University of Pennsylvania, which most people probably haven't heard of, or think 'penn state'. It's a lesser known member of the Ivy League ranked #4 nationally as recently as this year (U.S. News). What I'm trying to show is that many of my friends majoring in history/etc... experience large amounts of grade inflation.... it is possible for every kid in those classes to get an A on their paper (which I believe is the best way but...). Combine this with the grade inflation and everybody has a very pretty 3.x or higher GPA.

Now let's move to my domain: the engineering school. Here certain number of C's, D's, and F's must find their way into the grade book (according to grading policies) and we are all graded against one another. Take the average -> set it to a C -> hand out grades according to your position above or below... if a classmate performs poorly, that's good news for me!

My point (after talking about nothing for 15 min) is that GPA MEANS NOTHING. Especially at an Ivy League where you're not majoring in Math/Science. The fact that Bush received low marks at Yale is alarming to me as a conservative, but let's not take that and compare to somebody else - it's irrelevant.

- Brian

[edit] B.C. is by no means a 2nd tier institution. Comparing academic achievement is certainly a difficult task. One would like to compare school acceptances and performance there, but so many factors (family connections etc...) can nullify all of that information.