Kidd to Dallas? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

jacktruth · 06-23-2003, 09:48 AM

By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

You are undoubtedly here, with other draftniks, looking for Thursday nuggets. You're probably here looking specifically for a pick-by-pick breakdown of what the heck happens after the Nuggets take Carmelo Anthony.

Sorry.

The NBA draft is mere hours away, but we can't help it. We're still swimming in Jason Kidd stuff. The Finals, also known as two weeks' worth of Kidd stories, just ended. The forthcoming Free Agent Frenzy, also known as the Kidd Sweepstakes, starts in a week.

Jason Kidd and Steve Nash would have to switch places in a Nets-Mavs sign-and-trade.
It's tough to think of anything else, especially now that there are at least two rivals for the Nets to sweat. Both originating from the same state, incidentally.

The chances of Kidd leaving New Jersey for Texas have doubled, according to the weekend buzz. The Dallas Mavericks -- the team that made Kidd the No. 2 overall pick behind Glenn Robinson in the 1994 draft -- have apparently piqued Kidd's interest as a sign-and-trade destination. Word is Kidd will give the New Millennium Mavs, bearing little resemblance to the Mavs he once played for, a serious inspection after July 1.

Based on his repeated declarations that winning a championship -- that his legacy matters, basically -- is the chief concern heading into free agency, Kidd has made it clear that he will only consider teams that can reasonably expect to go farther than the Nets in the short term. Which essentially rules out the rest of the East.

The list of possible alternatives to Sopranoville, then, is a short one: Sacramento and Los Angeles (Lakers, of course); San Antonio and Dallas.

The Spurs, as even single-minded draftniks know, have roughly $15 million in salary-cap room waiting and a two-time MVP who would love to play with Kidd. They are expected to come hard after Kidd, even after winning the championship, even with Tony Parker on the roster, even though Tim Duncan needs a new oversized sidekick to replace the retiring David Robinson. Remember this: There isn't an All-Star big man out there who is any easier to acquire than Kidd, and Kidd is the best free agent available. That's why San Antonio rates Kidd ahead of Indiana's hard-to-get Jermaine O'Neal and the L.A. Clippers' harder-to-get Elton Brand, a restricted free agent.

Of the two over-the-cap powerhouses from California, meanwhile, only Sacramento would figure to have a shot, because the Kings (unlike the paper-thin Lakers) have the surplus talent to make a sign-and-trade work. Yet Kings general manager Geoff Petrie vigorously denies the suggestion he would offer Mike Bibby and Hedo Turkoglu in a sign-and-trade for Kidd. Will the Kings change their stance and join the Kidd bidding? At least it's a legit question. The Lakers can't even consider a bid, unless Kidd was miraculously willing to play for next season's $5 million exception, since L.A. has Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant ... and nothing to offer in a Kidd sign-and-trade.

Which brings us to the Mavericks. The option that has to concern the Nets and the Spurs, even though capped-out Dallas can't sign Kidd outright like San Antonio.

Those who know Kidd insist that he never wanted to leave Dallas. Those who know Don Nelson insist that Nellie, had he joined the Mavericks two months before his actual arrival in February 1997, would have blocked the Kidd trade to Phoenix.

Going back to his NBA roots would give Kidd the opportunity to unwrite the most negative on-court chapter of his life. Going to Dallas, furthermore, would give Kidd the chance to be the catalyst for a team that hasn't won the championship yet.

Going back to his NBA roots would give Kidd the opportunity to unwrite the most negative on-court chapter of his life. Going to Dallas, furthermore, would give Kidd the chance to be the catalyst for a team that hasn't won the championship yet. He'd also have better odds of winning it all with the Mavs than the Nets, despite living in the West, because he'd be joining Dirk Nowitzki and Michael Finley and whichever frontcourt free agent Kidd's presence could help lure in the $5 million exception slot.

None of that happens, mind you, unless Kidd chooses the Mavericks over the Nets and Spurs and pushes to force a sign-and-trade to Dallas. If that's what Kidd wants, the most likely scenario would force the Mavericks to part with Steve Nash as the centerpiece of the swap for Kidd. The Mavs could then use their exception to chase Alonzo Mourning or P.J. Brown or Karl Malone. Much as the Mavericks are loathe to break up the Nash-Nowitzki partnership, they will certainly dive into the Kidd derby if they learn definitively that Kidd desires a return to Big D.

And if the Nets can't convince Kidd to stay, after two fantasy trips to the Finals following two decades of mostly misery, you can be fairly sure they'd be rooting for Dallas over San Antonio. The Spurs, again, have the cap space to all but match New Jersey's most lucrative offer and take Kidd away without compensation. If Kidd wanted to go to the bigger market, where owner Mark Cuban has his own TV network (HDNet) to entice Joumana Kidd, New Jersey could get a top-flight point guard in return, be it Nash or Nick Van Exel.

So ...

Seems as though the best point guard in the game has at least three choices on the forthcoming open-market fast break. Kidd's hometown Golden State Warriors are pessimistic about their chances of getting into the fray, even amid reports that Kidd is open to a homecoming, because a sign-and-trade would deplete their talent base, which isn't at Kidd's prescribed championship level as presently constituted. The Seattle Sonics, where owner Howard Schultz of Starbucks fame is a family friend of the Kidds, are likewise not even a consideration. But Texas, bigger than ever NBA-wise, presents two inviting, contending possibilities.

Possibilities big enough to interrupt Draft Week, even.

Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. To e-mail him, click here. Also, send Stein a question for possible use on ESPNEWS.

Ummmmm Ok · 06-23-2003, 10:00 AM

Interesting...

Mandyahl · 06-23-2003, 10:03 AM

hmmmm

jacktruth · 06-23-2003, 10:11 AM

I've been against any trades that involve Nash until now. This would be a serious upgrade in talent. Plus Nash's whiny, liberal war politics in the media unseated some my loyalty to him personally.

Nash13 · 06-23-2003, 10:15 AM

Steve Nash doesn't have to go for this to happen. What Dallas can do is to send NVE and TAW. Cause that would probably even out the trade, and shave a lot of money out of our salary cap.

Murphy3 · 06-23-2003, 10:21 AM

would definitely help perimeter defense

Rhylan · 06-23-2003, 10:26 AM

I dunno.. wanna deal your team's best pure shooter? I don't.

Sadly, I'd send Finley over Nash, as much as I like Finley... but Finley and Kidd have been traded for each other before, so it ain't gonna happen. I just don't know about sending Nash away.

Of course, if I could send away NVE and whatever else they wanted, I'd do it without thinking. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] I like NVE, but man.. Kidd, Nash, Finley and Dirk? It's still a small 1-2-3, but who cares?? Kidd is a good defender and rebounder.. and.. offense? It'd be insane.

Nash13 · 06-23-2003, 10:37 AM

Good point Rylan. B/c Kidd would be an excellent way of giving Nash some R&R for the playoffs, and every game will be 48 minutes of a fast-paced game.

OutletPass · 06-23-2003, 10:40 AM

This is VERY hard to believe...if it hadn't been written by Stein, I'd give it very low credibility....

I'm in shock reading this....nothing that I EVER expected to hear after his first tour here....but if the price is NVE, we'd be insane not to do it. If the price is Nash, I'm on the fence until I can digest all this. All in all, we might have to pull the trigger to keep him from the Spurs....sure seems like JKidd is ready to bolt to the West.

I NEVER expected to see THIS when I read ESPN online this morning. NEVER.

ocelot_ark · 06-23-2003, 10:50 AM

Put me down for against...maybe.

The way Kidd played in the Finals was embarrassing. I'm not so sure if I want a guy on my team who can't hit 40% of his shots. I'd find it incredibly hard to see Nellie trying to put up with those numbers.

Another thing, NJ is incredibly athletic. Kidd gets so much out of them, but it starts with what they are. They have a bunch of slashing athletes. We have a bunch of jump shooters. Kidd would not have near as much of an impact here as he has had in NJ. We just don't have the personnel, IMO, to complement him.

If we're going to trade one of the PG's, I'd rather trade small for big and pick up a big guy. You might could entise a Brand for Nash swap, and I'd be a lot more pleased with the outlook of the next season...

Of course, we could pull off the trade and go on to win 3 rings in a row, but I doubt it.

Murphy3 · 06-23-2003, 10:50 AM

i like nash's offensive game better than kidd's.. but, on the glass/defensively, obviously kidd gets a huge + over nash.

and, like we all know, nash appears to be a bit fragile.
so would I pull the trigger on it? get back with me later

signoftimes · 06-23-2003, 10:51 AM

Quote:

All in all, we might have to pull the trigger to keep him from the Spurs

True, but even if the Spurs we're out of the equation and not going after Kidd, I'd still trade Nash for Kidd. I'd still take everything you read with a grain of salt. Rumors and amazing trades fly around all of the time.

kg_veteran · 06-23-2003, 10:56 AM

Honestly, I hate to think about trading Nash. But if you could get Kidd in return? He's not 1/10th of the shooter that Steve is, but he can score well enough, and he's a superior rebounder, defender, and playmaker.

My jury is out, but leaning toward making the deal...

kg_veteran · 06-23-2003, 10:58 AM

Of course, I'd give Van Exel and any other player not in the Big 3 to get Kidd. And that's something I think they might do, if they're faced with the prospect of not getting compensation. Hmmm...

Ummmmm Ok · 06-23-2003, 11:13 AM

I dunno if I could trade Nash for Kidd. But I would trade NVE/Esch for a maxed out Kidd. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Can you imagine having Nash, Kidd, Finley, Dirk, and Mourning in the last 3-4 minutes of the game? WOW!!!

madape · 06-23-2003, 11:23 AM

As much as I love Nash, this is too insane of a deal to pass up. I can't begin to image Kidd back in Dallas. It's inconcievable. I'd give them Nash, Finley, Nick, Raef... anyone but Dirk. Kidd and Dirk together? Good lord. Nash would become a distant memory the night Kidd made his first tripple double at the AAC.

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-23-2003, 11:34 AM

good thing we didnt over do it with Kidd.
i mean,obviously the best PG in the game today,but i doubt it would be such an upgrade from Nash.
he's a better PG than Nash,but Nash is Dallas,his style of play is exactly how we Nelson wants them to play,and how they played for the last couple of years.

aexchange · 06-23-2003, 11:37 AM

i do the deal in a heartbeat.

kidd immediately fortifies your perimeter D, and his ability to make spares look good, can do nothing but get us better.

if they want nash in a trade, they'd have to take our junk in return so we can free up salary cap space. if they take NVE, i'm willing to take on some of their junk.

Hitman · 06-23-2003, 11:41 AM

Don't a few other players have to be involved if it involves Steve Nash?

If it involved Nick, then where do you play Nash? As the shooting guard?

If Kidd wants to come to Dallas, then we should offer them NVE. They would rather get NVE from us than nothing from SA, and we would be much better off keeping Nash.

Kidd
Nash
Raef
Dirk
Finley

That is still "small ball" but with Kidd's defensive excellence and great rebounding skills, that lineup is VERY scary.

aexchange · 06-23-2003, 11:43 AM

how about a nash and lafrentz trade for a resigned kidd and richard jefferson?

i might crap in my pants if that happened.

kidd
finley
jefferson
dirk
mourning

Ummmmm Ok · 06-23-2003, 11:50 AM

With Mutombo sucking like he did, they would probably do that trade. Nash, Harris, Kittle, Martin, and Raef is still a top team in the East, but with what AE said, I would probably join him in the "SHITTING OF THE PANTS" if that trade went down.

kg_veteran · 06-23-2003, 11:54 AM

Just walking the deal through, for talking purposes:

Nash and another player (probably TAW) for Kidd (to make salaries work)

Quick lineup update:

LaFrentz - Bradley
Nowitzki - Najera
Griffin - Bell
Finley
Kidd - Van Exel

Already, your perimeter defense and rebounding is improved.

Add to that these conservative roster moves:

Add Malone for the MLE.
Add a SF (Jumaine Jones?) for the 1.5.

Lineup update:

Malone - Bradley
Nowitzki - LaFrentz
Jones - Najera
Finley - Bell
Kidd - Van Exel

The deal looks pretty good...

Nash13 · 06-23-2003, 12:00 PM

Salary wise, Nash for Kidd would make absolutely no sense. NVE will make almost 13mil next season, you add that to Kidd's big payday, you will be in salary cap hell.

Also, NVE may not be able to play that well with Kidd. He would get a lot less minutes playing back up for Kidd than for Nash.

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-23-2003, 12:02 PM

this deal is more unreasonable that JO's.

Murphy3 · 06-23-2003, 12:10 PM

one thing to consider..
if you trade Nash and you end up with Kidd and NVE..that would be a decent chunk of your shots going in at a 40% clip.

Can you afford that? Can you afford to have two guys taking 13+ shots a game that can't shoot the ball consistently?

Plus, fin's FG% dropped significantly..what if it doesn't bounce back this year?
That would leave the Mavs with 2 pg's that can't shoot consistently to save their lives and a SG that is shooting at a clip well below his norm a few years back.

That would be some atrocious shooting from the guard spots

superheadcat · 06-23-2003, 12:11 PM

i am just not sure this is such a huge upgrade. didn't nash outperform kidd most of the time when they met last season?

if we send nve for kidd, will nash be a back up?

this article certainly whet the appitite, but is mark stein just teasing us?

Ummmmm Ok · 06-23-2003, 12:11 PM

Very good point Murph..

kg_veteran · 06-23-2003, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
one thing to consider..
if you trade Nash and you end up with Kidd and NVE..that would be a decent chunk of your shots going in at a 40% clip.

Can you afford that? Can you afford to have two guys taking 13+ shots a game that can't shoot the ball consistently?

Plus, fin's FG% dropped significantly..what if it doesn't bounce back this year?
That would leave the Mavs with 2 pg's that can't shoot consistently to save their lives and a SG that is shooting at a clip well below his norm a few years back.

That would be some atrocious shooting from the guard spots

Excellent point. My jury is now leaning against.

I would do NVE and LaFrentz in a heartbeat. And they might too.

Nash13 · 06-23-2003, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: superheadcat
if we send nve for kidd, will nash be a back up?

That a 50/50 chance. It would all depend on what Nellie wants. He could do it like Pop did with Parker his rookie season where he beat out Antonio Daniels in the Training Camp.

If Kidd were to come to Dallas at the expense of NVE, i would put money on it that Nash would ride the bench, simply b/c Kidd wouldn't be use to not starting.

Tony tha Mavs fan · 06-23-2003, 12:31 PM

I like the deal , although i LOVE what Nash brings to the Mavs, but in my opinion Kidd's defense and rebounding outweighs Nash's scoring. The Mavs have plenty of scorers already it would just mean more shots for Finley and Nowitzki. It was very surprising to read this from Marc Stein out of all people, but i highly regard his opinions. I think it would be great to have Kidd back in Dallas, we just need to keep Toni Braxton as far away from the AAC as possible. This deal would keep the Spurs away from Kidd also and i think that would help alot too.

foglemann · 06-23-2003, 12:31 PM

we should just add Stein's crap to a 'pipe dream' thread. I don't think I do this trade. I don't want any more thirty something's on my team locked up for another 100 years. That would put another one on a long list of oldies making way too much. Fin, NVE, Brad(even though cheap, until 2008, I think), Raef, TAW. Just too many big contacts at their ages or skill level. Kidd is good, but I don't want him back in Dallas shooting air balls with Nick while we still struggle at the 3 or 5 spots. I'd keep Nash and Nick together, I think they are becoming a powerful duo unless we can get a big for one of them. Thats the only time I trade either one.

Murphy3 · 06-23-2003, 12:32 PM

Nash wouldn't be a backup... the mavs would find some way to have fin, nash, and kidd in the lineup at the same time.

but, that's irrelevent. I'm sure NJ would want a PG the caliber of nash..not NVE.

OutletPass · 06-23-2003, 12:35 PM

What a jury we've assembled ! But AE and UMMMM, if you guys are going to crap your pants, remind me to stand on the other side of the court when we play the 1st annual members tournament !!!

I want to look at all this from a different angle for a minute....let's assume some things for a moment and I hope that you'll bear with me here.

Let's assume that both Jo and kidd are available in sign and trade....

AND let's assume that the Mavs are wiling to give up Nash or NVE in that trade.

AND let's assume that we can round out either one to make the trades work under the CBA rules AND that we get a fairly OK backup point guard somewhere if it's for JO.

Would you rather have JO or would you rather have jKidd ?

Stein does NOT publish a lot of BS (like Vecsey, Smith and many of the rest)...he also used to write for the DMN and has "connections' to the Mavs...but, like KG, my "jury" is still out....this is just so 'out of the blue"....

But, if I'm dealing under the assumptions that I've outlined above....I'm leaning heavily towards JO.

Your opinions will be highly appreciated.....

aexchange · 06-23-2003, 12:38 PM

the only way a NVE and lafrentz trade works is if you trade for kidd and mutumbo. otherwise it doesnt.

i think mutumbo would end up sitting on the end of the bench here, and i dont know if he could be effective in this kind of system.

dont really know i want to give up 2 cogs for 1 great player.

Nash13 · 06-23-2003, 12:41 PM

Foglemann, what do you consider old? Finley just turned 30, Bradley turned 30 last year, Wahad's 29, Raef's 27, and NVE turns 32 this year.

And that would be a good deal if Kidd plays like Payton is in his 30s.

Ummmmm Ok · 06-23-2003, 12:43 PM

Nash is getting paid: 5,750,000 and Raef is getting Paid: 7,270,000 that comes out to roughly: 13 million a year. Isn't that Max money now?

Murphy3 · 06-23-2003, 12:48 PM

if it was NVE for JO..then JO in a heartbeat OP.

OutletPass · 06-23-2003, 12:52 PM

In thinking about all this I'm wondering.....is the source of Stein's info coming from Kidd or NJ or the Mavs ? Stein doesn't write BS...so he's got to be getting it from somewhere. It would APPEAR as though it's coming from the Mavs and Kidd if I'm reading it correctly...

(Agree with you murph, I have to go JO...younger, bigger, and solves a problem)

Ummmmm Ok · 06-23-2003, 12:55 PM

what if Cuban paid Stein to write this rumor to force San Antonio to go hard and heavy after Kidd so he doens't go to Dallas, but instead Cuban is really trying to get Oneil?

foglemann · 06-23-2003, 12:59 PM

Nash13, your thinking about now. I understand that most of these guys are in their lower 30's, but in 2 or 3 years, we're going to be in ass deep in old, fat wallet players. Even if we keep Nash, we will have to give him a large chunk. Finley won't be tradable until maybe his Juwan years and then add the untradable TAW, with Nick, we will be in major cap hell. I understand, right now, its OK. But I tend to think that the Mavs should win it all in 2 or 3 years, not NOW. Maybe that's a stupid way to look at it, but I would rather throw a max at a younger player with potential growth.