Now what?

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Lu Dort now a UFA

I love his game?not sure about the fit with DFS and Bullock?..but Bullock for sure wouldn?t stop me from looking at him.

[tap2390]

Dort is an RFA.


Edit: and I would bet my last pair of underwear he stays with the Thunder on a long-term deal in the $15-20m range.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Holy crap, forget Brunson. Get Lu Dort.

With all these FAs being available, I'm not sure I care as much about getting assets back from the Knicks anymore. Just get one of these guys.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Holy crap, forget Brunson. Get Lu Dort.

With all these FAs being available, I'm not sure I care as much about getting assets back from the Knicks anymore. Just get one of these guys.

That may be why the Mavs aren't willing to break the bank for Brunson- because they see a lot of cost effective, bargain bin options available.

I can understand that thinking, but losing Brunson's ball-handling will really hurt. I just really hope that Dragic still has something left in the tank.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

That may be why the Mavs aren't willing to break the bank for Brunson- because they see a lot of cost effective, bargain bin options available.

I can understand that thinking, but losing Brunson's ball-handling will really hurt. I just really hope that Dragic still has something left in the tank.

Then again, Cuban, Kidd, Finley, Nico and some Mavs players don't show up to a Brunson meeting for shits and giggles. They intend to persuade him to join.

[JustJay]

Harden declined his 47 million dollar deal, expecting a long term deal from the Sixers.

Hard to believe with how he played lately but i guess the Sixers have no choice but to pay him.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I think the Dejounte Murray trade falling through for the Knicks might have given us at little more of a chance, but it does make the Knicks more desperate.

You know, I think I'm changing my mind on the money thing though. For ten years the Mavs were used as leverage to up other teams' offers. I say we stick to a lower number. Prove to us young Jalen that you actually care about winning because it's not like you still won't be making a boat load of money either way. And we don't know for sure that a big offer changes his mind anyway. Let the Knicks overpay. We can still win without you.

My wife helped bring me to this perspective because you'd be nuts to want to go join that loser franchise. (Her words).

We shouldn't have to outbid the lowly Knicks...and likely won't.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I think the Dejounte Murray trade falling through for the Knicks might have given us at little more of a chance, but it does make the Knicks more desperate.

You know, I think I'm changing my mind on the money thing though. For ten years the Mavs were used as leverage to up other teams' offers. I say we stick to a lower number. Prove to us young Jalen that you actually care about winning because it's not like you still won't be making a boat load of money either way. And we don't know for sure that a big offer changes his mind anyway. Let the Knicks overpay. We can still win without you.

My wife helped bring me to this perspective because you'd be nuts to want to go join that loser franchise. (Her words).

We shouldn't have to outbid the lowly Knicks...and likely won't.

I dunno, I mean, I hear you, but at the same time I think it's naive to ever expect these young men to care more about winning than making money. If you want to keep your guys, you have to pay them more than the competition is offering, it's as simple as that.
The Mavs could have had him for the next several years at a fraction of the price, and they passed. It's easy to understand why he would have a chip on his shoulder about that. So he bets on himself, performs incredibly during the playoffs, elevates his game to a new level, and doubles his value. He earned his money.

Even if it's an outrageous overpay- and frankly even if he's making 27 million a year, there are far more overpaid players scattered throughout the league- I also worry about how letting him walk might hurt the perception of the Mavs franchise among players. We know that its a pretty tight knit community the players have. We know they all talk, and they have certain ideas about how franchises treat their players. For example, the Cetlics really paid a price with players for years of Danny Ainge's cutthroat and callous tactics. AD outright said he refused to go to Boston because of the way they treated Isaiah Thomas. He definitely wasn't the only player who felt that way. I think it could be a bad look for the Mavs if someone like Brunson plays his ass off, really overperforms, helps them get to the conference finals, and only to then turn around and not pony up as much money as the competition to keep him. Players might get the idea that the Mavs just don't care about their guys outside of Luka. I know Nico supposedly has really good relationships with players around the league, but actions speak louder than words.

Again though, I'm really fine letting him walk IF the Mavs can replace his production. But I feel like that's a tall order given the cap situation and lack of trade pieces.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I dunno, I mean, I hear you, but at the same time I think it's naive to ever expect these young men to care more about winning than making money. If you want to keep your guys, you have to pay them more than the competition is offering, it's as simple as that.
The Mavs could have had him for the next several years at a fraction of the price, and they passed. It's easy to understand why he would have a chip on his shoulder about that. So he bets on himself, performs incredibly during the playoffs, elevates his game to a new level, and doubles his value. He earned his money.

Even if it's an outrageous overpay- and frankly even if he's making 27 million a year, there are far more overpaid players scattered throughout the league- I also worry about how letting him walk might hurt the perception of the Mavs franchise among players. We know that its a pretty tight knit community the players have. We know they all talk, and they have certain ideas about how franchises treat their players. For example, the Cetlics really paid a price with players for years of Danny Ainge's cutthroat and callous tactics. AD outright said he refused to go to Boston because of the way they treated Isaiah Thomas. He definitely wasn't the only player who felt that way. I think it could be a bad look for the Mavs if someone like Brunson plays his ass off, really overperforms, helps them get to the conference finals, and only to then turn around and not pony up as much money as the competition to keep him. Players might get the idea that the Mavs just don't care about their guys outside of Luka. I know Nico supposedly has really good relationships with players around the league, but actions speak louder than words.

Again though, I'm really fine letting him walk IF the Mavs can replace his production. But I feel like that's a tall order given the cap situation and lack of trade pieces.

I think you nailed my second biggest concern. We know the Mavs have had an issue with perception around the league and guys talk. Carlisle being an overall dick to players really impacted past rosters and ability to acquire in addition to front office woes. I feel like they?re moving in the right direction to get past it in the last year. But this says they?re taking a step back.

[JustJay]

If our offer is within about 2 million, it's about the same money due to state taxes. But players don't seem to think about that.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by JustJay

If our offer is within about 2 million, it's about the same money due to state taxes. But players don't seem to think about that.

The offer is 22m vs 27.5m.

Edit: missed the ?if?

[JustJay]

So if the Heat get Brunson who could we poach in a sign and trade from them?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Rumor: Mavs interested in Javale.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I feel the numbers are all rumors at this point anyway. And if Miami gets in on a bidding war, then it likely won't be worth it. Knicks will give him 30 mil a year if they have to. They don't have much of a choice at this point.

[Amarelooms]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I feel the numbers are all rumors at this point anyway. And if Miami gets in on a bidding war, then it likely won't be worth it. Knicks will give him 30 mil a year if they have to. They don't have much of a choice at this point.

Good. Drive up the $$. Screw the Knicks lol

[Zeus]

How are you guys going to be tracking the FA developments? Starting this afternoon I will be on twitter non stop refreshing all the big names e.g. Woj, Shams et al.. Always a fun 12 hours or so.. Stay tuned for 5 pm Central.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by Zeus

How are you guys going to be tracking the FA developments? Starting this afternoon I will be on twitter non stop refreshing all the big names e.g. Woj, Shams et al.. Always a fun 12 hours or so.. Stay tuned for 5 pm Central.

I?m not on twitter, so I?ll probably check Hoopshype a few times before bed. I can get caught up in the morning. Hopefully people post up here too as news breaks.

[BPo001]

Reggie Bullock: JB deserves everything coming his way, true hard worker and def LIKE DAT 💼 💰 AND BETTER PERSON OFF THE COURT 💯 ? via Twitter ReggieBullock35

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Reggie Bullock: JB deserves everything coming his way, true hard worker and def LIKE DAT 💼 💰 AND BETTER PERSON OFF THE COURT 💯 ? via Twitter ReggieBullock35

Yeah, stuff like this deepens my concern that the Mavs letting themselves be outbid after the way Brunson elevated his game will negatively effect perception of the franchise by players. It might even hurt morale within the Mavs' own lockerroom.

Brunson earned his money. Just f**king pay the man. I really don't care if it's 30 million a year. Bad contracts are really not a big deal. Every team has them. But don't let your second best player walk out the door by being cheap.

[Melonhead]

You?re sending the message in the locker room unless you?re Luka, you?re not getting the bag from Cuban after outplaying your contract if it?s an overpay.

[tap2390]

Perception is the WORST reason to overpay a player who is redundant and a poor fit next to your actual best player. The Patriots and Spurs are both great examples of teams that know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em when it comes to players. Paying JB $25-30m a year will absolutely handicap our franchise.

Edit: want to add I have a lot of respect for the posters arguing very valid points as to why we should keep JB. I respectfully dissent.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Perception is the WORST reason to overpay a player who is redundant and a poor fit next to your actual best player. The Patriots and Spurs are both great examples of teams that know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em when it comes to players. Paying JB $25-30m a year will absolutely handicap our franchise.

Edit: want to add I have a lot of respect for the posters arguing very valid points as to why we should keep JB. I respectfully dissent.

Can't compare the NFL to the NBA. In the NFL, everyone other than a QB is completely replaceable. As for the Spurs, I'll admit that I haven't followed them that closely in recent years, but I can't ever recall them letting go of someone so important. Certainly not when they were in the title picture anyway. Minor role players, sure, but not their second best player.

As for handicapping the franchise, can you be more specific? Because I honestly don't see how it would change anything since we're going to be over the cap either way. I mean, the Mavs were willing to offer him 22 million a year. How much would and extra 5-8 million really hinder the Mavs?

And letting guys walk for the sake of future "flexibility" is classic Plan Powder. Have we still not learned our lesson about this? Has letting a good, important part of the starting lineup walk in free agency EVER worked in our favor? Even once? I feel like it has always been disastrous for the Mavs.

You can always clear salary if you need to. Hell, look how quick the Knicks did just to steal Brunson. Clearing salary is easy. But replacing your second best player when you have no cap room and almost no trade assets? That's extremely difficult, if not impossible.

I'm not saying I like paying Brunson that much. But having a bad contract seems the far lesser evil than going back to square one with having only one ball handler outside of Luka.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Can't compare the NFL to the NBA. In the NFL, everyone other than a QB is completely replaceable. As for the Spurs, I'll admit that I haven't followed them that closely in recent years, but I can't ever recall them letting go of someone so important. Certainly not when they were in the title picture anyway. Minor role players, sure, but not their second best player.

As for handicapping the franchise, can you be more specific? Because I honestly don't see how it would change anything since we're going to be over the cap either way. I mean, the Mavs were willing to offer him 22 million a year. How much would and extra 5-8 million really hinder the Mavs?

And letting guys walk for the sake of future "flexibility" is classic Plan Powder. Have we still not learned our lesson about this? Has letting a good, important part of the starting lineup walk in free agency EVER worked in our favor? Even once? I feel like it has always been disastrous for the Mavs.

You can always clear salary if you need to. Hell, look how quick the Knicks did just to steal Brunson. Clearing salary is easy. But replacing your second best player when you have no cap room and almost no trade assets? That's extremely difficult, if not impossible.

I'm not saying I like paying Brunson that much. But having a bad contract seems the far lesser evil than going back to square one with having only one ball handler outside of Luka.

100% agree.

[purplefrog]

All Things Mavs
@All_Things_Mavs
Fischer & Stein on Jalen Brunson:

- A Duncan Robinson centered S&T could make sense if he goes to Miami

- Skepticism that he?ll go anywhere BUT New York

- Meetings seem to leave the door open

- $110 million is the max New York is expected to offer


If this is accurate, the Mavs would be foolish to not offer JB 5yrs and $125M and leave the door open to go 5 yrs and $130M (that is, if the Knicks up their offer).

This type of negotiation sends the right message to current and future Mavs players, "If you are the second best player on the team and helped get us to the WCF, we will take care of you."

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Can't compare the NFL to the NBA. In the NFL, everyone other than a QB is completely replaceable. As for the Spurs, I'll admit that I haven't followed them that closely in recent years, but I can't ever recall them letting go of someone so important. Certainly not when they were in the title picture anyway. Minor role players, sure, but not their second best player.

As for handicapping the franchise, can you be more specific? Because I honestly don't see how it would change anything since we're going to be over the cap either way. I mean, the Mavs were willing to offer him 22 million a year. How much would and extra 5-8 million really hinder the Mavs?

And letting guys walk for the sake of future "flexibility" is classic Plan Powder. Have we still not learned our lesson about this? Has letting a good, important part of the starting lineup walk in free agency EVER worked in our favor? Even once? I feel like it has always been disastrous for the Mavs.

You can always clear salary if you need to. Hell, look how quick the Knicks did just to steal Brunson. Clearing salary is easy. But replacing your second best player when you have no cap room and almost no trade assets? That's extremely difficult, if not impossible.

I'm not saying I like paying Brunson that much. But having a bad contract seems the far lesser evil than going back to square one with having only one ball handler outside of Luka.

I don?t know if you?re local, but Bob Sturm was discussing this yesterday and the impact it would have on the team.. overpaying Brunson. You could tell that he was thinking like a football guy and not a basketball guy.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Perception is the WORST reason to overpay a player who is redundant and a poor fit next to your actual best player. The Patriots and Spurs are both great examples of teams that know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em when it comes to players. Paying JB $25-30m a year will absolutely handicap our franchise.

Edit: want to add I have a lot of respect for the posters arguing very valid points as to why we should keep JB. I respectfully dissent.

Tap I would respectfully challenge the assertion that 25 to 30 a year would handicap us. This is not a hard cap league when signing your own player and there is plenty of room to flip players/trade players when playing in the luxury tax zone. Very truly yours...

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

You?re sending the message in the locker room unless you?re Luka, you?re not getting the bag from Cuban after outplaying your contract if it?s an overpay.

He is getting a bag either way. Again, how do we know dad and agent aren't just using us and Miami for leverage? It's a really bad look if we up our offer just for him to pick the Knicks anyway. Then who is the chump?

And DFS got his bag. THJ got his bag. I hardly feel sorry for these guys.

Every single indication we've had in the last week is that Brunson wants to play for NY. I really don't think it's gonna be Brunson telling Cuban he really wants to play for the Mavs and will sign the dotted line if the price is 125/5.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

He is getting a bag either way. Again, how do we know dad and agent aren't just using us and Miami for leverage? It's a really bad look if we up our offer just for him to pick the Knicks anyway. Then who is the chump?

I could not possibly disagree more. If the Mavs offer him more money and he chooses to go to NY anyway, then that's his decision. Then it wasn't about money, or even about a lack of loyalty from the Mavs. Brunson just really wanted to play in NY then. But if the Mavs don't make the offer? I'm telling you, shit like that really bothers players. These guys have very fragile egos, and they all talk. That will (correctly) be seen as Cuban A: being cheap, and B: having no loyalty to a guy who absolutely elevated his game on the big stage, and helped us win our first playoff series in over a decade. Without him, no way we get past Utah.

And DFS got his bag. THJ got his bag. I hardly feel sorry for these guys.

Every single indication we've had in the last week is that Brunson wants to play for NY. I really don't think it's gonna be Brunson telling Cuban he really wants to play for the Mavs and will sign the dotted line if the price is 125/5.

True, but every single indication before that was that him staying with the Mavs was a done deal. Something happened in the interim. I'm thinking that he was caught off guard by just how hard the Knicks are pursuing him.

[tap2390]

One last point on this: no amount the Mavs can offer will remotely cover the amount JB can earn as the face of the Knicks if he balls out.

If he wants his own team and he wants to maximize his earning potential, the answer is clear.

If he wants to win, the answer is clear.

[saclare]

I'm confused...the Mavs should dole out a bad contract because other teams have bad contracts?

Max for me is $25mm a year, take it or leave it and have fun in NY I guess.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by saclare

I'm confused...the Mavs should dole out a bad contract because other teams have bad contracts?

What exactly are you confused about? Bad contracts aren't a big deal. They're not nearly the franchise crippling albatrosses everyone acts like they are. If they were, then there wouldn't be so many bad contracts.

Max for me is $25mm a year, take it or leave it and have fun in NY I guess.

Okay, but why? Seriously, what difference does an extra 5 million make?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Seriously, what difference does an extra 5 million make?

Why not ask that to Brunson? He doesn't want to play here.

It seems the negotiating is in total amount anyway. 110 Knicks over four years seems to be their offer. OK, so offer 115 over five which comes to 23 mil a year. There is your extra 5 million and a good compromise. But it's not about the money, and it's certainly not about the winning.

Find me a source that says Brunson really wants to stay as long as the offer is to his liking, and I'll change my tune. Daddy and agent orchestrated this whole thing. There is no way he doesn't go to the Knicks after the moves they made.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Why not ask that to Brunson? He doesn't want to play here.

Huh? That makes no sense. $5 million means a hell of a lot to the player. My question is, what difference does it make to the franchise? More to the point, what difference does it make to a FAN saying the most they would offer if they were in charge is $25M a year. (And in case it wasn't clear, I meant $5 million a year, not $5 million total)

Is $30 million a year really so much more egregious an overpay and so much more crippling to the franchise than $25 million? Spoiler alert- it's not. It IS however a bigger strain on Mark Cuban's pocketbook, which is increasingly what this seems to be about.

And if it really isn't about money, as you suggest, and he's going to the Knicks no matter what the Mavs offer, then fuck it, offer him the full max and make the Knicks pay even more. No sense in letting them off easy.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by saclare

I'm confused...the Mavs should dole out a bad contract because other teams have bad contracts?

Max for me is $25mm a year, take it or leave it and have fun in NY I guess.

The Mavs should match or outbid NY because, at this point, it makes no difference if they are more over the cap to anyone but Cuban?s wallet.

[EricaLubarsky]

Whole thing reeks

Brunson can talk to us now. He?s still our guy until he signs otherwise. Why talk to us now?

He 100% wants to leave and try to be a star with the Knicks and his dad and that?s fine. He?s just totally bullshitting us now.

[EricaLubarsky]

Whole thing wreaks

Brunson can talk to us now. He?s still our guy until he signs otherwise. Why talk to us now?

He 100% wants to leave and try to be a star with the Knicks and his dad and that?s fine. He?s just totally bullshitting us now.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Here's basically where I'm at.

If the Mavs offer him more money than the Knicks, and he still leaves, then there was nothing they could have done. He just plain doesn't want to be here, and I can't be mad that at the FO.

BUT if the Mavs offer only equal money, or worse, even less, then that's a huge mistake. The Mavs need to be able to say they did everything they could to keep Brunson. If they didn't do everything they could, then it's silly to blame Brunson or his dad or Leon Rose or anyone else.

The NBA gives each team one and only one tool to protect their rosters from being poached by other teams- the ability to pay their guys more the other team. If the Mavs don't use that one tool at their disposal, then that's on them. And it's a bad decision. It's a huge step backwards.

I want to share the optimism that Brunson's production can be so easily replaced. If that's so, then I've got no problem at all letting him walk. But I just don't see it. And I also don't see how letting him walk preserves any roster flexibility either. In fact, I think it actually makes us LESS flexible, because we lose him as possible trade asset as well as losing his production on the court. Yes, trading a guy making 30 million a year is hard. But it is NOT impossible. We just did it earlier this year. It IS impossible however to trade someone who is not on your roster.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

So the Knicks offering 30 mil a year would equal to 120. I guess that's where the 5/125 number comes from because I don't think the Knicks can get to 125. Not positive on that though.

Again, if it comes out that 5/125 seals the deal, then sure, it's irritating if the Mavs don't step up. But a week's worth of Knicks, Knicks, Knicks just doesn't reek of a guy willing to commit to us.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So the Knicks offering 30 mil a year would equal to 120. I guess that's where the 5/125 number comes from because I don't think the Knicks can get to 125. Not positive on that though.

Again, if it comes out that 5/125 seals the deal, then sure, it's irritating if the Mavs don't step up. But a week's worth of Knicks, Knicks, Knicks just doesn't reek of a guy willing to commit to us.

Again, the impression I get is- and I could be completely wrong about this, I'm just trying to read between the lines- Brunson initially did intend on re-signing with the Mavs. Because we heard repeatedly that him staying was all but a done deal. But then a lot of talk started happening behind the scenes *cough*(tampering) *cough*, and Brunson was surprised at how much the Knicks actually wanted him. He knew they wanted him and probably intended to just use them to get some extra money from the Mavs. But then it became clear that the Knicks were actually willing to pay MORE money than the Mavs and not the other way around. He was already feeling a bit salty over not getting the extension he wanted back in February, and this just made it worse. Now he wants to really squeeze the Mavs for every penny.

And you know what? I don't blame him one bit. The Mavs low-balled him, and he's making them regret it. I would do the exact same thing in his position. All the shit with his dad and his agent is shady and underhanded as hell, sure. But I will never blame a player for going where they make the most money.

If however the Mavs offer him more money and he STILL leaves. Then fine, that's on him. Then he just wants to be near his daddy, and is delusional enough to actually think he'll be "the man" in NY, even though they are very clearly using him as bait to lure an even bigger fish down the road.

[tap2390]

Multiple reports now saying there is no meeting with the Heat and never was. It was always a bullshit ploy by JB?s camp to squeeze more money out of the Knicks and make this look legit versus the obvious farce it is. Don?t let the door hit you JB.