Rasheed Wallace

[kg_veteran]

Kiki - That's certainly a valid point. I guess I just figure that if you have a chance to get out from under two huge contracts and make the team better now and for the future, you have to take that risk.

Personally, I think Wallace will thrive in a place where the expectations are on other players to carry the team. If he doesn't, well, we just dump him.

[kg_veteran]

All I know is that you'd have a better chance to defend in the 4th quarter with a guy on the floor who can cover bigs without needing help every time. Rasheed can definitely do that.

[Cybertx]

something else if we ship tariq and AJ and things doesn't work we loose Wallace and walker opt out how are in salary are we going to still be over the cap. And if we don't then this trade would have been a big hit don't you think

[grndmstr_c]

We'd still be at the cap limit, so we wouldn't have any money to throw at FA's. We'd have to ship out Fin for an expiring contract to get below it, and AW probably won't opt out this year. He's due too much.

This has been said so many times. I'm puzzled why it hasn't stuck yet. Cap space = Pipe dream.

[MightyToine]

Originally posted by: Cybertx
something else if we ship tariq and AJ and things doesn't work we loose Wallace and walker opt out how are in salary are we going to still be over the cap. And if we don't then this trade would have been a big hit don't you think

Good point, cyber.


(of course it's a foregone conclusion, IMO, that AW will opt out this offseason.....whether it's to sign a new deal or find a new team remains to be seen)

[Blonde Bomber]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
we traded

Nick Van Exel
Raef LaFrentz
Avery Johnson
Evan Eschmeyer (IL)
Popeye Jones (IL)
Tony Rigadeau (IL)

for
Antawn Jamison
Antoine Walker
Danny fortson
Tony Delk

If we could trade Delk, TAW and Jamison for Wallace

we would trade

Nick Van Exel
Raef LaFrentz
Avery Johnson
Evan Eschmeyer (IL)
Popeye Jones (IL)
Tony Rigadeau (IL)
TAW (IL)

for
Antoine Walker
Rasheed Wallace
Danny fortson

.....hmmm...its a lot of players but its definitely a talent upgrade since Eschmeyer, Jones, Rigaeau and TAW were IL fodder

I guess you could break it down father and say we traded Juwan Howard for Walker, Wallace and Fortson
and that would be GREAT value in return.

[madape]

(of course it's a foregone conclusion, IMO, that AW will opt out this offseason.....whether it's to sign a new deal or find a new team remains to be seen)

What?!? I don't think there is any way in HELL he opts out. He couldn't come clost to fetching the same kind of money on the open market as he would if he waived his clause. Unless the Mavericks offer to extend his contract, he'll be earning exactly $14,625,000 next year.

[V]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Kiki - That's certainly a valid point. I guess I just figure that if you have a chance to get out from under two huge contracts and make the team better now and for the future, you have to take that risk.

Personally, I think Wallace will thrive in a place where the expectations are on other players to carry the team. If he doesn't, well, we just dump him.

KG - Glad to see you're coming back around... if I remember correctly you voted for 'Sheed, then changed your mind.

That said, it seems we have some spin doctoring on both sides of this potential deal!

"Wahad is a stud if he gets healthy...he was the ONLY Kings player defending before Doug Christie Showed up.....he has hops too...well built...If we get him, we should use him....Like Danny Fortson was in GS, Wahad is buried on the bench but can contribute....he will insure Woods NEVER sees another meaningful minute of action...and I'm fine with that." - posted by BendBlazer22 on Blazers Forum

[Cybertx]

how about loose fortson and najera for an expiring contract the 2 of them are almost 10 mill together

[MightyToine]

Originally posted by: madape

What?!? I don't think there is any way in HELL he opts out. He couldn't come clost to fetching the same kind of money on the open market as he would if he waived his clause. Unless the Mavericks offer to extend his contract, he'll be earning exactly $14,625,000 next year.

True but if Cuban offers him a new contract that pays him a bit LESS than the amount he's making now(10-12 Mill per yr, for example) with incentives, I think he might Bite. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[grndmstr_c]

Nobody in their right mind would give us an expiring contract for those two.

[grndmstr_c]

True but if Cuban offers him a new contract that pays him a bit LESS than the amount he's making now(10-12 Mill per yr, for example) with incentives, I think he might Bite. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Of course he would. And madape allowed as much. That still won't put us under the cap.

[Cybertx]

Originally posted by: madape

What?!? I don't think there is any way in HELL he opts out. He couldn't come clost to fetching the same kind of money on the open market as he would if he waived his clause. Unless the Mavericks offer to extend his contract, he'll be earning exactly $14,625,000 next year.

He could get that money he's probably one of the 15 top SF of the league and he's improving to the eyes of the league, he is changing his reputation of a ball hogger and has become the most consistent player in the mavs and he can be point forward and power forward.

Of course if mavs end bad he probably will not opt out bu if mavs end like last year or better and he keeps playing well his value will go up.

[kg_veteran]

FWIW, I emailed Eddie Sefko and it doesn't sound like he thinks Jamison/Wahad for Wallace is happening. He doesn't see any way Portland would be willing to take on Wahad's contract. He said after talking to Portland front office people the last two days he deemed the rumor unworthy to be printed and fed to DMN readers.

[kg_veteran]

MightyToine - I've seen you say about 20 times that Walker is going to opt out and sign a cheaper deal in the offseason. You're nuts if you think that's happening.

[grndmstr_c]

Thanks for the info KG.

[MightyToine]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
MightyToine - I've seen you say about 20 times that Walker is going to opt out and sign a cheaper deal in the offseason. You're nuts if you think that's happening.

Not Nuts, Kg. Just Hopeful.....Just Praying....Just dont't want to see him leave or get traded..... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img]

[Male30Dan]

Originally posted by: V

KG - Glad to see you're coming back around... if I remember correctly you voted for 'Sheed, then changed your mind.

That said, it seems we have some spin doctoring on both sides of this potential deal!

"Wahad is a stud if he gets healthy...he was the ONLY Kings player defending before Doug Christie Showed up.....he has hops too...well built...If we get him, we should use him....Like Danny Fortson was in GS, Wahad is buried on the bench but can contribute....he will insure Woods NEVER sees another meaningful minute of action...and I'm fine with that." - posted by BendBlazer22 on Blazers Forum

V,

Its funny you brought this up, because before I read your post, I was planning on calling KG out for the same thing... We are all walking the fence regarding our feelings on Wallace... He has SO MANY pros, AND SO MANY cons... I think without a doubt I want him here, I just hate the idea of Walker going for him due to how hard he is trying to help us without hurting us, OR Jamison going due to his personality and quality traits - not to mention basketball abilities... I guess sometimes you have to give to get though!

[Cybertx]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Nobody in their right mind would give us an expiring contract for those two.

i think some will think about LA or SA , i know for a good source than LA offered Najera a bigger salary than mavs 3 or 4 years ago but Najera didn't want to move to La.

Najera brings over 5 or 6 millions in ads and rights and all that from mexico so think how much he will generate in LA it's the second biggest mexican population in the world over 6 mill.

[kg_veteran]

V, Dan - I've changed my opinion about whether getting Wallace would be a good idea about 25 times. You guys have only seen me change my mind twice in this thread...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[grndmstr_c]

Tx, I just sent you a PM on Eddie and Fort. A Wallace thread isn't really the place to be having this discussion.

[kg_veteran]

More info from Eddie Sefko, answering a question many of us have had for a while now about Abdul-Wahad's contract and what role insurance plays...

The insurance kicks in after he misses 40 consecutive games. It would make Tariq more palatable in terms of what he costs Paul Allen, but it would still hit their salary cap the same (in the 5-7 million range over the next 4 years).

Sefko thinks Portland would have to be really desperate to do the deal; he thinks if Dallas throws in a 1st round pick down the line the deal is more likely to happen.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
More info from Eddie Sefko, answering a question many of us have had for a while now about Abdul-Wahad's contract and what role insurance plays...

The insurance kicks in after he misses 40 consecutive games. It would make Tariq more palatable in terms of what he costs Paul Allen, but it would still hit their salary cap the same (in the 5-7 million range over the next 4 years).

Sefko thinks Portland would have to be really desperate to do the deal; he thinks if Dallas throws in a 1st round pick down the line the deal is more likely to happen.

That might explain a few things. Our 40th game of the season is tomorrow (vs Portland) so the insurance would kick in after that. Since players have to be on the active roster to be traded (or at least on the active roster of the new team) it seems to be a financial move to wait.

[Cybertx]

so it's today the last day to trade tariq?

[MavKikiNYC]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

he thinks if Dallas throws in a 1st round pick down the line the deal is more likely to happen.

HELL no.

[kg_veteran]

Yeah, I don't think Sefko was too high on that idea either. I certainly am not. To me, Portland has to assume something negative (Wahad's contract) for us to take on the risks associated with Wallace (off-court problems, potential locker room cancer, ability to walk away in the offseason).

[Dirkenstien]

id throw in a future first rounder if they took wahad and gave us Davis

[kg_veteran]

The numbers don't work.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
The numbers don't work.

I might be wrong on this but isnt Portland one of the highest payed teams in the league? There is no way they are under the cap at least.

[Male30Dan]

Add more spares and it does!

Dallas trades: SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 13.7 minutes)
PF Danny Fortson (3.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.4 minutes)
PF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (3.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.4 minutes)
SF Antawn Jamison (15.8 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 30.1 minutes)
Dallas receives: C Dale Davis (6.4 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.5 apg in 29.3 minutes)
SF Rasheed Wallace (16.8 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 2.7 apg in 38.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +0.7 ppg, -0.8 rpg, and +2.6 apg.

Portland trades: C Dale Davis (6.4 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.5 apg in 29.3 minutes)
SF Rasheed Wallace (16.8 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 2.7 apg in 38.6 minutes)
Portland receives: SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 28 games)
PF Danny Fortson (3.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.2 apg in 30 games)
PF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (3.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.2 apg in 30 games)
SF Antawn Jamison (15.8 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 38 games)
Change in team outlook: -0.7 ppg, +0.8 rpg, and -2.6 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

[kg_veteran]

I might be wrong on this but isnt Portland one of the highest payed teams in the league? There is no way they are under the cap at least.

What does this have to do with whether the salaries match or not?

[kg_veteran]

Dan, I think you're getting greedy. It's going to be hard enough to convince Portland to swallow Tariq's contract; no way they also take on Najera and Fortson, too. That's an additional four years a piece on those guys.

[Dirkenstien]

Dallas trades: SF Antawn Jamison (15.8 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 30.1 minutes)
SF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (15.8 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 30.1 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 13.7 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Rasheed Wallace (16.8 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 2.7 apg in 38.6 minutes)
C Dale Davis (6.4 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.5 apg in 29.3 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -2.5 ppg, +2.0 rpg, and +2.0 apg.

Portland trades: SF Rasheed Wallace (16.8 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 2.7 apg in 38.6 minutes)
C Dale Davis (6.4 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.5 apg in 29.3 minutes)
Portland receives: SF Antawn Jamison (15.8 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 38 games)
SF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (15.8 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 38 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 28 games)
PG Tony Delk (6.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 29 games)
Change in team outlook: +2.5 ppg, -2.0 rpg, and -2.0 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED


this also works..and if we throw in a future first rounder i think they would atleast be tempted to bite.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: Cybertx
so it's today the last day to trade tariq?

No Sunday is the FIRST day his contract will be palatable.

I looked on Patricia's site and looked at the moves we had to do to make the trade for NVE.

2/21 TRADE: Dallas traded Juwan Howard, Tim Hardaway, Donnell
Harvey, a 2002 1st round draft pick, and $1 million to
Denver for Raef LaFrentz, Nick Van Exel, Avery Johnson, and
Tariq Abdul-Wahad.

2/21 Dallas released Charlie Bell.

2/21 Dallas placed Shawn Bradley (sore right knee) and Adrian
Griffin (back spasms) on IR.

And then we had to play short handed for the next game vs Boston. Players can't go straight to the injured list. TAW went to the injured list about 2 weeks later when Bradley was eligible to come off.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

What does this have to do with whether the salaries match or not?

cap issues

[Poindexter Einstein]

I think Najera is the type of guy you dont want to trade. Because he has more value here than his "perceived value" around the league. Nellie likes him, and he makes meaningful contributions. Whereas, another team that gets him sees him as a liability and demands you give them something they like just to take Najera off your hands.

So in a trade, if you give away Najera PLUS a #1, from Dallas side you gave up two good things. From the other side, they received one good thing (#1 pick) plus one bad thing (Najera/contract) and thus they dont owe you anything back of any value. Giving Najera-plus-#1 while getting Nothing isnt a deal you want to make.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

cap issues

That answer doesn't make any sense.

[grndmstr_c]

It's debatable how much Najera is worth to us given his struggles this year, but you're right that his inclusion in addition to TAW would almost certainly scare Portland off.

[Poindexter Einstein]

You can trade, no matter how far over or under the cap you are, as long as the current salaries that you get back are about the same (or less) as the ones you send away.

[EricaLubarsky]

I missed part of that original post so I thought he was proposing that they take TAW off out hands for a 1st round pick which would have been a cap issue.