GDT: Game 53 - Mavs (29-24) at Grizz (27-25) 8:30pm

[Bryan_Wilson]

I get it, I don't really disagree to giving him a consistent 12 mins a game but at the same time he really needs to show something on offense and we don't know how he looks in practice either. For all we know he's looking just as bad there and it's hard to get him in these tight games if he isn't showing what he can contribute. The only thing he brings us right now is athleticism and some hustle plays.

Right now he's been a net negative. He needs to lock himself in the gym in the off season and just develop a respectable corner 3. Hell I'd take 32% on 2 attempts a game at this point and I bet he would have 12 mins a game if he did do that. He won't last beyond his rookie contract if he can't at the very least do that.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Yeah that is incredible for a rookie

I wonder if the Mavs secretly say they blew it not just with Bane but also with Bey.

Either one of those guys would've made J.Rich not needed on this roster.

Can't believe the scouting dept or Cuban/Donnie screwed that up

But Banes aRmS aRe ShOrt.

Hell forget green, I'd swap him with JRich right now.

[Melonhead]

One of the best parts of having a star like Luka is that media and espn like to do segments around them.

Off work today and sports center just went through all of Lukas tying or game winning shots and then brought on Vince Carter for his top 3 current closers segment. Then they asked him his personal favorite game winner and he said the corner 3 over Ginobli.

Ahh memories.

[turin]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

No one is more disappointed in JRich offensively this year than me but.... What has Green done to deserve minutes let alone starting? I'm not advocating for JRich to come back but I'm certainly not even remotely considering Green a starter. He seriously looks like the worst offensive player on the floor whenever he is on the floor. He has had chances to make an impact too, this isn't a case to me at all where RC just doesn't play a guy because he is young.

And in the past when we have been upset about RC's lack of playtime for young players like Anderson or Motley? I remember GDT's where people roasted RC for not playing them(I know I did for Anderson). They aren't even in the NBA anymore. And I don't buy the lack of development angle either. Neither played with us more than 2 years and they couldn't develop at the age of 22 elsewhere? I really can't recall a single player we didn't play who left and even became a NBA quality player let alone hidden gem of some kind.

Dodo shot 30% from 3 for 3 years till he put it together so he could put in the work and turn it around next year... At the same time though, he airballs wide open corner 3's. The ones he was supposed to be adequate from in college, he looks like he's never shot them before. He's at like 2 of 20 on the year and you can tell by his body language when he passes up shots that he has zero confidence in his shot so I don't think it's just a lack of opportunities. He has had plenty of chances IMO with all the covid stuff and banged up guys we have had.

I'd argue that Crowder left due to less playing time than he deserved. He moved on, received more money, more playing time, and demonstrated that he deserved them.

I find it interesting when Mav fans bring up Crowder's name from time to time as a possible addition. Why he would come back and play under Carlisle is beyond me. I still think that a main reason so many players choose other destinations over the Mavs is due to RC. He's well known for his prickly demeanor, and if I made millions, I wouldn't be inclined to looking forward to having to deal with that at work on a regular basis if I had other options.

[turin]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

One of the best parts of having a star like Luka is that media and espn like to do segments around them.

One of the worst parts is the cover that Luka provides the MBT. He is so talented and impactful that him going off in a game can overcome the multitude of Mav roster deficiencies. He really is amazing. I just wish the MBT were half as competent matching the roster around him to offensive/defensive systems that takes advantage of the roster talent at hand, not some hypothetical model to be achieved in the future... maybe. I'm sick to death of watching them constantly try and fit square pegs in round holes. :-/

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by turin

I'd argue that Crowder left due to less playing time than he deserved. He moved on, received more money, more playing time, and demonstrated that he deserved them.

I find it interesting when Mav fans bring up Crowder's name from time to time as a possible addition. Why he would come back and play under Carlisle is beyond me. I still think that a main reason so many players choose other destinations over the Mavs is due to RC. He's well known for his prickly demeanor, and if I made millions, I wouldn't be inclined to looking forward to having to deal with that at work on a regular basis if I had other options.

I guess you can make a case for Crowder but RC did play him in basically every game as a rookie and then a 2nd yr player. It wasn't until his 3rd year that his playing time dipped but by then we had added Parsons, Jefferson, and Aminu. But aside from his stint in Boston he's been used the same way we used him so I would disagree. Even if you count Crowder though how many years has Rick been here? And if the only example is Crowder going from an 18min role player(and rookie) to a 25min player in Boston I'm not seeing a reason for the constant narrative that Rick gets here about not playing guys who should obviously be played.

[turin]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I guess you can make a case for Crowder but RC did play him in basically every game as a rookie and then a 2nd yr player. It wasn't until his 3rd year that his playing time dipped but by then we had added Parsons, Jefferson, and Aminu. But aside from his stint in Boston he's been used the same way we used him so I would disagree. Even if you count Crowder though how many years has Rick been here? And if the only example is Crowder going from an 18min role player(and rookie) to a 25min player in Boston I'm not seeing a reason for the constant narrative that Rick gets here about not playing guys who should obviously be played.

I didn't intend to start listing people. The NBA has a limited roster and only 5 people can play at a time. Having said that, if the coach is correct 80% of the time, that sounds great numbers-wise, but the 20% "mistakes" can be extremely costly because of the additional expense addressing those mistakes. The Mavs have a limited pool of resources. Mistakes are setbacks. Also, it's hard to list several more examples off the top of my head because the Mavs for far too long undervalued their draft choices. As a result, over the years, there have been a lot less "young" guys on their roster. The effective result is the same - less playing time and development for younger players. Does this mitigate some of the blame on RC? Of course, he can't be responsible for playing or not playing what's not on the roster. How much is RC responsible for the composition of the roster? I have no idea. Does anybody outside the organization know?

As far as underutilization and coaching mistakes, I'll go ahead and be a troll and throw out a name - Roddy B. San Antonio anyone? ;-)

Yes, that was a long, long time ago, but then again so was 2011. ;-)

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by turin

I didn't intend to start listing people. The NBA has a limited roster and only 5 people can play at a time. Having said that, if the coach is correct 80% of the time, that sounds great numbers-wise, but the 20% "mistakes" can be extremely costly because of the additional expense addressing those mistakes. The Mavs have a limited pool of resources. Mistakes are setbacks. Also, it's hard to list several more examples off the top of my head because the Mavs for far too long undervalued their draft choices. As a result, over the years, there have been a lot less "young" guys on their roster. The effective result is the same - less playing time and development for younger players. Does this mitigate some of the blame on RC? Of course, he can't be responsible for playing or not playing what's not on the roster. How much is RC responsible for the composition of the roster? I have no idea. Does anybody outside the organization know?

As far as underutilization and coaching mistakes, I'll go ahead and be a troll and throw out a name - Roddy B. San Antonio anyone? ;-)

Yes, that was a long, long time ago, but then again so was 2011. ;-)

I went ahead and took a look to see if there was one I was forgetting

-JJB RC played and he had a pretty great career.
-Roddy B RC played him but he was mired by injuries.
-Dominique Jones RC didn't play and he was out of the league after 3 years.
-Ricky Ledo RC didn't play and was out of the league after 2 years.
-Dwight Powell RC did play and he still plays.
-Crowder RC played and he still plays.
-Jared Cunningham RC did not play and he played(barely) for 5 other teams in 2 years and was gone from the league.
-Bernard James RC didn't play him and he was out of the league in 3 yrs.
-Shane Larkin RC didn't play him much and he was out of the league after 4yrs.
-Justin Anderson RC didn't play him much and he's out of the league after 5yrs.
-Yogi Ferrell RC played him and he is still in the league.
-Dodo RC played him and he's still in the league.
-Hammons RC didn't play him and he was out of the league after 1 year
-Spalding RC didn't play and he was out of the league until Rockets signed him to a 2 way and played him 19 mins this season.
-Isiah Roby RC didn't play and he's currently with the OKC - TBD
-Brunson RC played and he's still in the league

I didn't list all the young players just the more notable ones. We had a plethora of guys who were roster fodder I won't count but we also had guys who had roles here and were undrafted and older players from Europe like Salah and Kleber who RC obviously played. But this list is more of an indictment of the MBT drafting and scouting personnel more than RC and his rotations imo. Now as you said I have no idea how much input RC has with the draft or scouting process but whoever it is this is a pretty trash list even if we are drafting late. The only one I can even get on board with is not Crowder but Roddy and only in his rookie season. Roddy in all honesty was never the guy he was in his rookie season. His rookie season he was an analytics star in limited minutes but after that he wasn't remotely the same player.

So for me in terms of young players and playing time for RC, with the exception of 1 season of Roddy B, I can't honestly see an issue with the lack of playing time for the list above.

[FreshJive]

Did the Mavs win last night?

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by turin

I'd argue that Crowder left due to less playing time than he deserved. He moved on, received more money, more playing time, and demonstrated that he deserved them.

I find it interesting when Mav fans bring up Crowder's name from time to time as a possible addition. Why he would come back and play under Carlisle is beyond me. I still think that a main reason so many players choose other destinations over the Mavs is due to RC. He's well known for his prickly demeanor, and if I made millions, I wouldn't be inclined to looking forward to having to deal with that at work on a regular basis if I had other options.

Crowder didn’t leave due to lack of playing time. He left because he got traded. He had no say in the matter.

[turin]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I went ahead and took a look to see if there was one I was forgetting

-JJB RC played and he had a pretty great career.
-Roddy B RC played him but he was mired by injuries.
-Dominique Jones RC didn't play and he was out of the league after 3 years.
-Ricky Ledo RC didn't play and was out of the league after 2 years.
-Dwight Powell RC did play and he still plays.
-Crowder RC played and he still plays.
-Jared Cunningham RC did not play and he played(barely) for 5 other teams in 2 years and was gone from the league.
-Bernard James RC didn't play him and he was out of the league in 3 yrs.
-Shane Larkin RC didn't play him much and he was out of the league after 4yrs.
-Justin Anderson RC didn't play him much and he's out of the league after 5yrs.
-Yogi Ferrell RC played him and he is still in the league.
-Dodo RC played him and he's still in the league.
-Hammons RC didn't play him and he was out of the league after 1 year
-Spalding RC didn't play and he was out of the league until Rockets signed him to a 2 way and played him 19 mins this season.
-Isiah Roby RC didn't play and he's currently with the OKC - TBD
-Brunson RC played and he's still in the league

I didn't list all the young players just the more notable ones. We had a plethora of guys who were roster fodder I won't count but we also had guys who had roles here and were undrafted and older players from Europe like Salah and Kleber who RC obviously played. But this list is more of an indictment of the MBT drafting and scouting personnel more than RC and his rotations imo. Now as you said I have no idea how much input RC has with the draft or scouting process but whoever it is this is a pretty trash list even if we are drafting late. The only one I can even get on board with is not Crowder but Roddy and only in his rookie season. Roddy in all honesty was never the guy he was in his rookie season. His rookie season he was an analytics star in limited minutes but after that he wasn't remotely the same player.

So for me in terms of young players and playing time for RC, with the exception of 1 season of Roddy B, I can't honestly see an issue with the lack of playing time for the list above.

Nice summary. Thanks for the time and reply, and I agree with you. Under closer scrutiny, it is more of an idictment of the MBT than it is RC, and depending upon how much input he actually has in this area, he may really be blameless. When I look at the roster, I scratch my head at times wondering why imo the roster talent appears to be such a poor match for how RC wants the team to play.

As far as changes to the MBT that may be beneficial, since Cuban isn't going anywhere that leaves Donnie and RC. I am beyond tired of RC, his system, not adapting to the talent on the roster, etc... We have been stuck in Cowboy mode for far too long, so I wouldn't lose any sleep if either Donnie or RC or both were replaced. If both were replaced, we'd find out soon enough how much of the problem may be Cuban, but Mark's no dummy so that just may add to their job security. :-O Yes, I'm a cynical one. heh

Bottom line, a team has to win 4 games to advance in the playoffs, and the Mavs play a 5 out system that puts a premium on analytics and 3's. They just don't have the players with the skillsets to consistently play that way. They are not consistent enough, and when the 3's aren't falling the answer is not to go smaller. I will continue to cheer for the Mavs, but I am realistic and will be sure to berate myself for being too emotionally invested once the Mavs have been eliminated. The Cowboys taught me years ago not to emotionally invest in a fundamentally flawed organization, and with each passing year, the Mavs look no different to me. I just wish I weren't such a slow learner at times. :-/

[mavsjunkie]

So, we traded for KP so that put us in sort of a bubble. Once we move past those early restrictions of draft picks/etc, or trade KP, either or, then we can build a formidable roster.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by turin

I'd argue that Crowder left due to less playing time than he deserved. He moved on, received more money, more playing time, and demonstrated that he deserved them.

I find it interesting when Mav fans bring up Crowder's name from time to time as a possible addition. Why he would come back and play under Carlisle is beyond me. I still think that a main reason so many players choose other destinations over the Mavs is due to RC. He's well known for his prickly demeanor, and if I made millions, I wouldn't be inclined to looking forward to having to deal with that at work on a regular basis if I had other options.

Crowder actually made comments regarding his time Dallas while in Boston basically stating he felt like he was in a much better situation.

Not sure if that was directed at RC or not but he felt like the Celtics gave him more a chance

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by mavsjunkie

So, we traded for KP so that put us in sort of a bubble. Once we move past those early restrictions of draft picks/etc, or trade KP, either or, then we can build a formidable roster.

What's wrong with building formidable roster around KP?

[tgfan]

Originally Posted by turin

I'd argue that Crowder left due to less playing time than he deserved. He moved on, received more money, more playing time, and demonstrated that he deserved them.

I find it interesting when Mav fans bring up Crowder's name from time to time as a possible addition. Why he would come back and play under Carlisle is beyond me. I still think that a main reason so many players choose other destinations over the Mavs is due to RC. He's well known for his prickly demeanor, and if I made millions, I wouldn't be inclined to looking forward to having to deal with that at work on a regular basis if I had other options.

It's good to know I'm not the only one with that belief.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by turin

I'd argue that Crowder left due to less playing time than he deserved. He moved on, received more money, more playing time, and demonstrated that he deserved them.

I find it interesting when Mav fans bring up Crowder's name from time to time as a possible addition. Why he would come back and play under Carlisle is beyond me. I still think that a main reason so many players choose other destinations over the Mavs is due to RC. He's well known for his prickly demeanor, and if I made millions, I wouldn't be inclined to looking forward to having to deal with that at work on a regular basis if I had other options.

This is how I always saw the situation too.

[Stylistic]

wrong game.