Thanks a lot Cuban!!

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

This just means that whoever is back there needs to be talking, needs to have that presence. This isn't omg Chandler isn't there, we can't function until he comes back.

This.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

This just means that whoever is back there needs to be talking, needs to have that presence. This isn't omg Chandler isn't there, we can't function until he comes back.

But it also means there isn't anyone on the team who does this naturally. It doesnt have to be chandler but obviously it ain't big wood.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Wang Zhi Zhi

100% dead-on balls accurate.

How can you expect this team to be hungry, when the owner has made clear that the number 1 goal for this year is to create cap flexibility for future years, especially, as noted abover, when none of those guys will be here next year. It's hard enough for the Dirk/Kidd/Terry/Marion core to stay truly hungry and passionate after finally getting their title towards the end of their long career, but almost impossible when you're chasing nothing but future-year cap space. That may make business since with a 5-7 year plan, but creates a disastrous environment for THIS year, that I think MC misjudged.

Plus:

Lamar - looks like he could not care less anymore, which has to make you wonder if LA know what they were doing in axing him. I mean, LA is one of the smartest and best-run orgz in all of sports, and yet they gave away the reigning 6th-man to a top rival for virtually nothing.

Haywood - will have ZERO motivation this year, b/c he knows he's getting cut next year, but while still getting paid big $$. Imagine if your employer told you would be fired in a year, but that you'd still get paid top $ for several more years to come. How motivated would you be?

Vince - Once it becomes clear this team is not a contender, what in the world does he have to play for. He's a good guy who will dutifully do his job, but don't expect elite level-intensity from him now.

So the Core-4 will play hard like the professionals they are, but not with that title-seeking edge/itensity like before, with the rest of the crew having no real reason to put forth any sincere effort at all.

Sad to see the defending champs look this way.

Couldnt have said it any better. How everything played out obviously is affecting the team, whether anyone in the organization wants to admit it or not. They banned together, went all the way and became champions, only to be torn apart. I understand why they couldnt commit to TC for 4 years, and the other FA that signed elsewhere, but it still stings. And I think it still stings for the players too.

It'll take half a season to acclimate to everything thats going on and really start to put pieces together and win games.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

They'd actually be better off since Cuban gutted the team anyways. Right now the mavs will fight for a 7/8 seed and get swept in the first round and then end up with a mid first pick which basically will amount to nothing. At least if they tanked they could seriously improve through the draft.

Mavs will finish with a top 4 record in the west

[Flacolaco]

Wow. Is this thread part of real life?

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Nor any guarantee that they would not have been as lethargic. I would expect they would not as both of those guys typically ( and currently) are showing a lot more energy than the bunch out there now.

In fact even using the word guarantee about anything we are talking about is kinda bull. There is no guarantee for anything in sport.

That's precisely the point. Many of these comments carry an underlying assumption that these last two performances would have been drastically different had we brought back Chandler and Barea. Yet, seeing nothing is guaranteed, it could just as easily be argued that the level of play could have been similar had we brought those two back. These losses have looked more like collective apathy than anything else. To attribute the blowouts to losing two non-superstar players in Chandler and Barea, while overlooking the addition of a tremendous talent in Odom, seems more emotionally driven than logical.

[Dale4Saul2Red0]

Originally Posted by mav4ever

if i was dirk i'd ask to be traded.

how can you not at least sign jj or tyson? and give dirk at least a chance at another one.

you found the formula and you throw it away?

We win a title and you try to throw the owner under the bus? I guess you don't realize he didn't sign Chandler and Barea (which would be overpaying) because he's saving his money to either go after Deron Williams or Dwight Howard. Cuban's going to go after a big Free Agent.

He's a good businessman, he understood tying up money in Chandler and Barea was stupid, especially if he is planning down the road (like good businessman do). Dirk won't be here for forever and he understands that so he's slowly moving the pieces to prepare for life after Dirk.

Like I said before Cuban is playing chess and some of you are playing checkers. The team we had last year red lined! If you bring the same pieces back while everyone around you is getting better it doesn't mean shit! People are so clueless to the business side of the game it's baffling.

[BGMaverick9]

I'm pretty sure the formula was to be opportunistic when an opportunity came up. The formula took into account the old CBA. Now, the CBA has changed and you have to adapt or fall to the waste side.

The formula is still the same, but you've got to readjust for the long haul.

[ibivibiv]

Originally Posted by clutch#41

so when we have a big 3 of howard, williams, and dirk next year will cuban still suck?

He is rolling big dice though, betting this entire season on landing those guys. It's going to hurt watching this year and I hope he can pull it off. Otherwise:

Good thing we have all that cap space, it really helps out on defense.....

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by ibivibiv

He is rolling big dice though, betting this entire season on landing those guys. It's going to hurt watching this year and I hope he can pull it off. Otherwise:

Good thing we have all that cap space, it really helps out on defense.....

I don't really see it as betting this entire season. To me, that assumes the team is tanking. I don't see that when it comes to looking at the landscape. The west is still relatively wide open. OKC is the team that looks ready to step up, but there's nothing behind them that really stands out and says we're coming to get you. When you take conditioning, getting players used to the system, trust and having the target placed squarely on your chest - why is hard to believe that this is what we're seeing so far?

[mavsjunkie]

I think last nights game showed that the Heat aren't as special as they thought they were.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I am sorry. That's my fault. That's not really what I meant or was interested in. I'm sure no one is interested in the mapping out of your future postings.

My apologies for not being forthright. What I meant was: Are all future moves or non-moves going to be viewed by you through the prism of the championship?

It would be a nice default, of course. But I'm not sure it would be all that productive. In fact, I think it would be trivial.

I knew what you meant, thanks. My answer stands. I'll be sure to let you know personally as soon as I decide whether "all" future moves will be viewed one way or another.

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Sounded a lot like Jerry Jones to me...

"You liked that championship, didn't you!"

Fallacious reasoning, then and now.

Bad comparison, KG. The situations are quite distinguishable.

And if you're suggesting that the reasoning being offered is, "The front office should never be criticized because they won a championship"--which of course would be fallacious--then you're missing the point.

Originally Posted by SMC0007

This just means that whoever is back there needs to be talking, needs to have that presence. This isn't omg Chandler isn't there, we can't function until he comes back.

Best post in this thread.

[Kidd Karma]

Our guys aren't ready to go, championship hangover + short camp and new players, slow start. I won't read too much into the season until mid January.

[Kidd Karma]

Hindsight, Kwame Brown might have been of better use than Lamar. Brown's on a 1 year 8 million dollar deal with GSW.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Hindsight, Kwame Brown

If I may, I'd like to stop you right there.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

If I may, I'd like to stop you right there.

hahah

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

If I may, I'd like to stop you right there.

good one.....

[ibivibiv]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I don't really see it as betting this entire season. To me, that assumes the team is tanking. I don't see that when it comes to looking at the landscape. The west is still relatively wide open. OKC is the team that looks ready to step up, but there's nothing behind them that really stands out and says we're coming to get you. When you take conditioning, getting players used to the system, trust and having the target placed squarely on your chest - why is hard to believe that this is what we're seeing so far?

Being honest, we'll do well with what we have, but barring injuries we are just a possibility this year along with the rest. We let a full rotation of solid guys go and replaced them with projects players and "used to coulds". We'll have to make up for that AND show up in the playoffs with fresh legs on an old team. So, yeah I think he's betting the success of this season on nabbing some big names later. I don't disagree with that strategy, but it is just going to hurt watching some wonky basketball here for awhile. Anything else said is just blind fandom. We'll probably get in somewhere in the middle for the playoffs and have to really tighten things up to make it to the conf finals, but thinking we'll go all the way with this much rotation in players and coaching is a bit of a pipe dream. Crazier things have happened, but the Mavs have a long road ahead of them.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by ibivibiv

Being honest, we'll do well with what we have, but barring injuries we are just a possibility this year along with the rest. We let a full rotation of solid guys go and replaced them with projects players and "used to coulds". We'll have to make up for that AND show up in the playoffs with fresh legs on an old team. So, yeah I think he's betting the success of this season on nabbing some big names later. I don't disagree with that strategy, but it is just going to hurt watching some wonky basketball here for awhile. Anything else said is just blind fandom. We'll probably get in somewhere in the middle for the playoffs and have to really tighten things up to make it to the conf finals, but thinking we'll go all the way with this much rotation in players and coaching is a bit of a pipe dream. Crazier things have happened, but the Mavs have a long road ahead of them.

I don't think it necessarily have to be big names. I can see Cuban trying to maintain as much flexibility as he can while building a group around Dirk. I mean you add Williams or Howard, you're still handcuffing yourself. Cuban is a business man, when he sees a great deal, he'll want to bite...case in point Lamar Odom. Who knows you bring in a guy like OJ Mayo for a half dollar on the dollar, you never know, the dynamic duo...with Dirk. I do see us going balls to the wall for the Big 2 left, but there will always be good players on the market, Cuban's going to try his darndest to keep flexibility going forward. Stack, Damp Chips.....were pulled out of the hat by Cuban, no other owner were able to get that done. It's a pain in the ass to watch our guys blown out night after night, but I trust what the heads are doing.

[ibivibiv]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

I don't think it necessarily have to be big names. I can see Cuban trying to maintain as much flexibility as he can while building a group around Dirk. I mean you add Williams or Howard, you're still handcuffing yourself. Cuban is a business man, when he sees a great deal, he'll want to bite...case in point Lamar Odom. Who knows you bring in a guy like OJ Mayo for a half dollar on the dollar, you never know, the dynamic duo...with Dirk. I do see us going balls to the wall for the Big 2 left, but there will always be good players on the market, Cuban's going to try his darndest to keep flexibility going forward. Stack, Damp Chips.....were pulled out of the hat by Cuban, no other owner were able to get that done. It's a pain in the ass to watch our guys blown out night after night, but I trust what the heads are doing.

Totally, I can see a crazy move with a Haywood amnesty or something to make that big acquisition happen. Deron has mentioned in passing that coming here is something he would be open to. Howard has used Cuban as an example of ownership treating star players the way he wants to be treated. Nabbing both of them would be a dream, but I'd be thrilled with just Deron.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by ibivibiv

He is rolling big dice though, betting this entire season on landing those guys. It's going to hurt watching this year and I hope he can pull it off. Otherwise:

Good thing we have all that cap space, it really helps out on defense.....

Hes betting more than this season IMO. He will be looking for what tyson was bringing for a long time if he misses on those guys. He risks the dreaded ...being just good enough to not suck.

[JeffViggiano]

no way guys,i TRUST in mark.

we have only lose 2games,go mavssssssssssss

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Hes betting more than this season IMO. He will be looking for what tyson was bringing for a long time if he misses on those guys. He risks the dreaded ...being just good enough to not suck.

You mean what Tyson brought for one season? The injury prone center who was terrible for Charlotte? The one that has really only had a significant impact in 3 years out of 10 in his career? The one that is approaching thirty and relies almost soley on his athletic ability? And yet we should give this guy a 4-5 year contract for 13+ million per year?

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by mavs777

You mean what Tyson brought for one season? The injury prone center who was terrible for Charlotte? The one that has really only had a significant impact in 3 years out of 10 in his career? The one that is approaching thirty and relies almost soley on his athletic ability? And yet we should give this guy a 4-5 year contract for 13+ million per year?

Yes

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by mavs777

You mean what Tyson brought for one season? The injury prone center who was terrible for Charlotte? The one that has really only had a significant impact in 3 years out of 10 in his career? The one that is approaching thirty and relies almost soley on his athletic ability? And yet we should give this guy a 4-5 year contract for 13+ million per year?

And lock ourselves into just bidding on the Mike Bibbys, for 2-3 seasons to replace Kidd's minutes.

[Budapest Maverick]

But Cuban is not rolling the dice for one season. Let's be real here, many of you guys are huge Dirk fans... Scratch that, we're all huge Dirk fans, but many of you are bigger Dirk fans than Mavs fans. Dude1934 for example, you're not making it a secret, you're a Dirk fan, not really a Mavs fan, you even said numerous times you may won't even watch the team after Dirk retires, if i'm not mistaken.

Dirk is a legend, Dirk is an idol, but he's not the Dallas Mavericks. Not in the big scheme of things anyway. So some of you guys wanted Mark to cripple the organization for 5 years, so we may have a chance to win another...for Dirk? I mean come on. We'll have to field a team even after Dirk retires. Also, even if you think that way, chances are, Cuban still made the best choice. And it's not like Cubes didn't tried. He offered 20 freakin' million dollars to Chandler.

Let's be real again. We clicked at the right time. It was a perfect storm, a lot of desire that came from losing, if it were a movie, you know the plot would have been about one last chance. And there is a really, really good chance that it was the last chance... For this team anyway. Cuban knows what he is doing, he's trying to get 2 superstars to play with Dirk, and frankly i'm not sure he has less chance to succeed, then our championship team would have had for a repeat.

[mav4ever]

Originally Posted by mavs777
You mean what Tyson brought for one season? The injury prone center who was terrible for Charlotte? The one that has really only had a significant impact in 3 years out of 10 in his career? The one that is approaching thirty and relies almost soley on his athletic ability? And yet we should give this guy a 4-5 year contract for 13+ million per year?

Originally Posted by dude1394

Yes

yes.

and the whole "you still gonna be complaining when we have dirk, d howard, and d williams?",,,,,,,, is a fun fantasy, but thats as far as it goes. you have too many posts to actually believe that,,,,,right?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mavs777

You mean what Tyson brought for one season? The injury prone center who was terrible for Charlotte? The one that has really only had a significant impact in 3 years out of 10 in his career? The one that is approaching thirty and relies almost soley on his athletic ability? And yet we should give this guy a 4-5 year contract for 13+ million per year?

Originally Posted by dude1394

Yes

When did Dude1394 adopt the fiscal mindset of a tax & spend D*mocrat?

Did hell actually freeze over when we won the championship???

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Underdog

When did Dude1394 adopt the fiscal mindset of a tax & spend D*mocrat?

Did hell actually freeze over when we won the championship???

Lol Hmmm..

Democrat. -- invests in the tooth fairy and green energy.. ( 2012 free agents )
Republican -- invests money on proven technology ( 2011 championship team ).


One looks like a hope and a prayer, the other a solid investment in a known commodity to me.

At least if the goal is to win a championship.

And yes, although I do want to win it again for the dirkster, I also honestly ..

1. Do not believe that deron/Dwight will be coming here. Nor any superstr free agent, they are destined for the coasts.
2. Resigning chandler was the most conservative way to try and win another championship.
3. I also believe that cuban has damaged a lot of the ownership-cred he had builtup. The league ( and free agents ) know he is going to completely change the team again next season. So at least another two years before we will contend again, if then.
4. Selfishly as a season ticket holder I now have a team that is in turmoil and whom I don't believe will really turn it around to actually compete for a championship team has been dismantled.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by ibivibiv

Being honest, we'll do well with what we have, but barring injuries we are just a possibility this year along with the rest. We let a full rotation of solid guys go and replaced them with projects players and "used to coulds". We'll have to make up for that AND show up in the playoffs with fresh legs on an old team. So, yeah I think he's betting the success of this season on nabbing some big names later. I don't disagree with that strategy, but it is just going to hurt watching some wonky basketball here for awhile. Anything else said is just blind fandom. We'll probably get in somewhere in the middle for the playoffs and have to really tighten things up to make it to the conf finals, but thinking we'll go all the way with this much rotation in players and coaching is a bit of a pipe dream. Crazier things have happened, but the Mavs have a long road ahead of them.

I'm dying to know which category Odom fits in. I'm not even sure what the second one is, to be honest with you.

My point still remains that the Mavs had a long road ahead of them last season and they still did ok. They looked TERRIBLE at the end and couldn't beat anyone who actually mattered until the very end. It's not about what's happening now.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by mav4ever

yes.

and the whole "you still gonna be complaining when we have dirk, d howard, and d williams?",,,,,,,, is a fun fantasy, but thats as far as it goes. you have too many posts to actually believe that,,,,,right?

First of all I did not say that, second of all it is possible unlikely yes but possible we do have a good chance of deron however that much is clear. And even if we don't land Dwight or Deron its better than giving a bench player 5 mill a year, or a non star 14 mill a year for 4 years. There are quite a few good shooting guards available next offseason.

[mav4ever]

1. Do not believe that deron/Dwight will be coming here. Nor any superstr free agent, they are destined for the coasts.

i dont think either will ever be a maverick, and even if they were right now it would be a longer shot to defend the title than if we just had done everything possible to stand as pat as we could (i.e. chandler and jjb)

dirk is in his 14th season and the time to mount a charge on his behalf was this year, not next year or beyond.

i appreciate greatly that we did it last year. i am a huge cowboy fan, but watching the chemistry, and trust that had formed among our core, and seeing dirk finally get what he has deserved for so long brings tears to my eyes.

the dallas mavericks should have done everything in their power to get him 1 more. his window is closing but it wasnt too late. he was super human in the playoffs but to expect him to hold tight for new help, a year or more from now, at this stage in his career is rediculous.

it's not that much of a stretch to consider the possibility that we would have been even stronger this year than last. just that much more time together.

just my opinion. feel free to continue calling me stupid or questioning my loyalty.

[ibivibiv]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I'm dying to know which category Odom fits in. I'm not even sure what the second one is, to be honest with you.

My point still remains that the Mavs had a long road ahead of them last season and they still did ok. They looked TERRIBLE at the end and couldn't beat anyone who actually mattered until the very end. It's not about what's happening now.

Vince Carter = Used to Could

Agreed Odom was a god send.

So don't die or anything, now you know.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I'm dying to know which category Odom fits in. I'm not even sure what the second one is, to be honest with you.

My point still remains that the Mavs had a long road ahead of them last season and they still did ok. They looked TERRIBLE at the end and couldn't beat anyone who actually mattered until the very end. It's not about what's happening now.

The category that odom fits into is backing up our best player. IMO an ill-fitting "star". If he's on the floor either he or dirk are playing center...and that IMO is not nearly an honestly contending team.

I also would not be surprised in the least when he is moved at the trading deadline.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by mavs777

You mean what Tyson brought for one season? The injury prone center who was terrible for Charlotte? The one that has really only had a significant impact in 3 years out of 10 in his career? The one that is approaching thirty and relies almost soley on his athletic ability? And yet we should give this guy a 4-5 year contract for 13+ million per year?

With all due respect to you sir, Chandler is a bamf! Ty relying almost solely on his athletic ability is false. He knows how to play the game and displayed it in championship form last year. The intangibles he brought are under rated too often around here. More and more people will start to realize this as the season goes on, sometimes whats on paper doesn't pan out.

[ibivibiv]

Originally Posted by dude1394

The category that odom fits into is backing up our best player. IMO an ill-fitting "star". If he's on the floor either he or dirk are playing center...and that IMO is not nearly an honestly contending team.

I also would not be surprised in the least when he is moved at the trading deadline.

I honestly have just assumed that they jumped on Odom as a trade asset. It seemed like he just sort of fell in our lap rather than we planned it. It's not like the Mavs were dying to pick up another awesome FWD, the Mavs have bigger needs elsewhere. He's an awesome pickup though, just seems like an odd fit. Maybe once things settle in, he'll click into place better. Right now the team just looks like an awesome collection of talented pieces that don't really fit together yet. Short preseason... go figure huh? LOL

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I also would not be surprised in the least when he is moved at the trading deadline.

Unless the wheels totally come off or they're hit with a no-brainer deal, I'd be shocked if he was dealt. They like him a lot.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Unless the wheels totally come off or they're hit with a no-brainer deal, I'd be shocked if he was dealt. They like him a lot.

Why BG? They are obviously making moves for next season, I can't believe they will resign him. Unless they just want nothing for him but the cap space.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by dude1394

The category that odom fits into is backing up our best player. IMO an ill-fitting "star". If he's on the floor either he or dirk are playing center...and that IMO is not nearly an honestly contending team.

Yep.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Why BG? They are obviously making moves for next season, I can't believe they will resign him. Unless they just want nothing for him but the cap space.

It's not just about next season, it's also looking at extending the length of your assets. They don't have to look at extending his contract a long period of time because they have an option on him for next season. It leaves the door open for another year if you feel it is necessary.