Hate Crimes as defined by the left...

[92bDad]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...w&pageId=86633

They fight for freedom of speech, but now they squelch the freedom of thought.

The left is very clever...they fight for rights, but only through manipulating freedoms.

Yet another item that President Obama supports and yet another FAILURE being pushed!!!

Our freedoms are being squelched one by one, until we are all slaves of the left!!!

[Robillion]

Obama wants the freedoms for every American, that includes LGBT Americans. A religious ideology should not hold back any American from having the same opportunities as you and I. That is what Obama is trying to do. You can try to skew it all you want and make some negative out of it all you want. That is what I cannot respect about the right...they always try to find that best way to spin a good thing into a bad thing.

[Mavdog]

so are you against women getting equal pay for equal work?

are you against every citizen having the same right not be subjected to discriminatory actions by employers?

there is no mentioning in any of this about "freedom of speech" or "freedom of thought", both of which you mention in the first post. that is a bunch of bs on your part.

equal rights for every citizen. how any american can be against this concept is beyond me....

[Robillion]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

...I could learn something from Mavdog...

I would suggest starting here.

[Robillion]

I should have the right to discriminate all I want! It is the American way!! Those darn lefties are muddying up the water hole.
/sarcasm

[u2sarajevo]

From that link you provided I was curious about this tidbit:

Second on the list of priorities is Obama's demand for federal "hate crimes" laws, which opponents fear could be used to make basic Christian beliefs subject to federal penalties and prohibitions as already has happened in other nations.

Huh? That's a leap isn't it? Are they implying that because of Christian belief that homosexuality is a sin the government will outlaw Christian faith? Obama is a Christian. Why would that be a part of his agenda?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Is this a joke?

[DirkFTW]

This "equal opportunities for all irrespective of religious beliefs" talk seems surprisingly absent when it is:

County clerks who refuse to provide marriage certificates to homosexuals
Pharmacists who refuse to provide morning-after pills
Doctors/Hospitals who refuse to conduct or recommend abortions

Just saying that what's good for the goose should be good for the gander.

[Robillion]

I think the keyword of that quote you took there u1 was "opponents". There is no possible way it could go that far in this country. It is not like the left is all atheists. Most are Christians as well and do not believe in homosexuality, but what I believe Obama is wanting to do is put more laws in effect to prevent discrimination. As a christian myself, it is not in my belief structure to discriminate against anyone.

[92bDad]

The concept is clear.

Make a statement that Homosexuality is wrong is considered a "Hate Crime"

Thus teaching and preaching as it is written in the Bible would constant "Hate Crime"

No sense in debating the Gay issue, but for the record, I believe the Gay lifestyle is a "CHOICE" one that everyone is free to participate or not...they are NOT born into being gay, like we are all born with are respective "Race" or "Gender"

Thus I am for equal rights for all races and for the Male and Female gender.

But special rights for a selective lifestyle is beyond equal rights. It is a manipulation of what so many minorities have fought for so long and so hard to achieve and it is a slap in the face of those who have been persecuted for generations on end.

It's amazing how the rights of a selective lifestyle are more important than the rights of Child who is simply developing in a mothers womb. The child has no choice, they have been created...yet mothers and medical personnel have the right to kill that child at the request of the mother. What about that child's right to life?

Say what you will, but the left continues to manipulate the freedoms and rights of people and this is what is an insult to our nation.

[Robillion]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

This "equal opportunities for all irrespective of religious beliefs" talk seems surprisingly absent when it is:

County clerks who refuse to provide marriage certificates to homosexuals
Pharmacists who refuse to provide morning-after pills
Doctors/Hospitals who refuse to conduct or recommend abortions

Just saying that what's good for the goose should be good for the gander.

Not necessarily...

That may fall in line with your first example, as if county clerks provide marriage certificates to straight couples, then yes it would be discrimination to homosexuals for them to not also provide one to them. But, the other two examples are of businesses that have decided not to provide a particular service to anyone. Not just homosexuals. Businesses should have the right to withhold their own services, but not be inclusive and exclusive to who they offer them to based off of race, color, gender, creed, or sex.

[Robillion]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

The concept is clear.
No sense in debating the Gay issue, but for the record, I believe the Gay lifestyle is a "CHOICE" one that everyone is free to participate or not...they are NOT born into being gay, like we are all born with are respective "Race" or "Gender"

Thus I am for equal rights for all races and for the Male and Female gender.

But special rights for a selective lifestyle is beyond equal rights. It is a manipulation of what so many minorities have fought for so long and so hard to achieve and it is a slap in the face of those who have been persecuted for generations on end.

What you really mean is that you are for equal rights for all races and for males and females that choose to be straight. The thing is, whether you believe that it is a choice or not to be gay, that doesn't take away from the truth that all AMERICANS should have equal rights and opportunities whether they are straight or not. If it is a choice, they should have the right to practice that choice without discrimination. As a Christian, Obama probably does not believe that gays are born that way, but as a true patriot and someone that knows the constitution better than 90% of Washington most likely he believes that all AMERICANS, straight or homosexual, should have equal opportunity without being discriminated against.

The debate should never be about rights for black people, rights for women, rights for gays... it should just be rights for Americans. They have citizenship. They should have equal opportunity as the rest of us.

[92bDad]

Gay rights is not what this is about.

Gay lifestyle is a choice...if you choose to go there you know what you are getting into.

How is that any different than a Pedophile...they choose to do what they do and they no the consequences...should they be afforded the same rights...the American-Pedophile Rights?

Granting rights for what people choose to do as a lifestyle is a bad presedence (SP?) What about people who enjoy having sex in public...that's their choice, should they have equal rights to display their affection for one another they way they choose, regardless of how indecent it is to the rest of society?

Rights granted based on choice is a very slippery sloap and it is NOT one that we as a nation should go down.

Giving rights to someone based on choice at the expense of one's freedom to think and voice the teachings of the Bible and how it is wrong to live in that lifestyle is breaking the Laws of faith.

Forgive me as I am not one to quote verbatum much of anything, but I believe there is something in the Bible that states to Obey man's Law provided it does not conflict with God's law. If they government goes down this road, are they not risking the very lives and livelihoods of MILLIONS and MILLIONS of Americans? What happens if the half ot he 90% of American Christians stand up and obey God's law...are you going to place some 100,000,000 Americans in Jail? I'm sure that would help our economy!!!

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Robillion

Not necessarily...

That may fall in line with your first example, as if county clerks provide marriage certificates to straight couples, then yes it would be discrimination to homosexuals for them to not also provide one to them. But, the other two examples are of businesses that have decided not to provide a particular service to anyone. Not just homosexuals. Businesses should have the right to withhold their own services, but not be inclusive and exclusive to who they offer them to based off of race, color, gender, creed, or sex.

Oh but they're skewered for it and dragged to court for proper compensation. And if the business disagrees with the employee's decisions, pink slip city.

And as for marriage certificates, it's not "discrimination" until the law first makes it legal to marry homosexuals. Then, the conscience question arises for existing employees who have to choose between their livelihood and their religious beliefs. The order makes a difference.

"If that is their job and they are going to be able to pick and choose based on their morality, then all of a sudden they are not doing their jobs," continued Newsom.

"If you don't want to provide a marriage certificate and you've got a job that does that, then you should think twice about why you got the job in the first place and maybe you should get a new job," he added. "Talk about a slippery slope, Mr. County Clerk down in San Diego."

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/may/08052608.html

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Gay rights is not what this is about.

Gay lifestyle is a choice...if you choose to go there you know what you are getting into.

How is that any different than a Pedophile...they choose to do what they do and they no the consequences...should they be afforded the same rights...the American-Pedophile Rights?

Granting rights for what people choose to do as a lifestyle is a bad presedence (SP?) What about people who enjoy having sex in public...that's their choice, should they have equal rights to display their affection for one another they way they choose, regardless of how indecent it is to the rest of society?

Rights granted based on choice is a very slippery sloap and it is NOT one that we as a nation should go down.

Giving rights to someone based on choice at the expense of one's freedom to think and voice the teachings of the Bible and how it is wrong to live in that lifestyle is breaking the Laws of faith.

No offense man, but you are way off your rocker here. Let's set aside the idea of homosexuality being a "choice" which I couldn't disagree with more. I don't see anywhere Obama trying to impose a law that prohibits someone from having an opinion, or voicing it. What "freedom" is being denied here? The freedom to discriminate?

Refusing someone service or employment because they're homosexual- that IS discrimination, and yes, I DO consider that a hate crime, regardless of whether or not sexual orientation is "choice." If you can refuse someone service on the grounds of their sexuality, then could you not also do the same to someone because of their religion? Or political views, etc? Those things are also "choices."

And how far does the supposed "freedom" to oppose homosexuality go? Should doctors have the right to refuse someone care on the grounds of sexuality?

Now THAT is a very slippery slope and one I pray we as a nation never go down.

Forgive me as I am not one to quote verbatum much of anything, but I believe there is something in the Bible that states to Obey man's Law provided it does not conflict with God's law.

Then let God enforce god's law. Our goverment's job is to enforce man's law, and in the United States, homosexuality is not a crime.

If they government goes down this road, are they not risking the very lives and livelihoods of MILLIONS and MILLIONS of Americans? What happens if the half ot he 90% of American Christians stand up and obey God's law...are you going to place some 100,000,000 Americans in Jail? I'm sure that would help our economy!!!

Dude, are you kidding?

[92bDad]

Why should a person of faith be forced to something against their faith?

Give the right to gay person to live their life, but give the same right to a person of faith to not participate in that life.

If a clerk is not willing to provide a marriage certificate on the grounds of personal faith, then that should be their right. Then it is up to the gay person to find a clerk who supports their view.

Thus everyone has their Rights.

That is the problem with giving rights to lifestyle choices...it's a circle that becomes never ending and then you will have fringe groups manipulating and taking advantage of it...such as the Gay Lifestyle community.

We have a major fundamental difference, I believe that by granting special rights to Gays, you are taking the freedom rights away from those who live by faith.

My stance is for the freedom of everyone's rights based on how they were created. I am opposed to granting special rights based on a persons lifestyle choice.

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

... I believe that by granting special rights to Gays, you are taking the freedom rights away from those who live by faith.

....

and therein lies the fundamental question... What "special" rights are being conferred to gays here?

do they get "cut-in-line" privleges? Extra drumsticks?

[Mavdog]

the county clerk cannot interject their personal beliefs in the conduct of their office. when they took the oath of their office they agreed to do just that. the county clerk should follow the law of the land no matter if they agree with that law or if they disagree with that law.

gay people do not want any "special rights", gay people just want to have the SAME RIGHTS that straight people enjoy.

it is a case of equal rights. how any american can be opposed to equal rights for all citizens is beyond me.

[92bDad]

By taking away the right to refuse service you are effectively granting special rights.

Again the fundamental difference is choice versus birth.

When it comes to race or gender then I believe in equal rights.

When it comes to choices, we all know that there are different choices to be made based on the consequences of those choices. In some cases, the choice to partake in Gay activities will alter how others provide services to you.

I would equally NOT want to serve someone who supports Abortion.

The fundamental difference is Choice versus Geneticly Born.

[Robillion]

What you have not gotten into your skull yet is that the fundamental flaw in your argument, and the only thing that you keep pointing back to.. is that this is not about a "lifestyle". Lifestyle does not matter. If I CHOOSE to be a vegetarian... a lifestyle choice... then I should still be able to get married. I should still be able to be fairly treated when trying to get a job. The lifestyle should not matter whatsoever. It is the fact that EVERY MAN and EVERY WOMAN should be able to have the SAME rights.

[dalmations202]

Why do people keep calling it EQUAL RIGHTS?

Rights are given by who(m)?

If it is Legal, does that make it Right?

What makes anyone think that the world owes them Equality? Especially when we aren't born equal.

I read this board way too much, and I understand that this country is trying to push opinion and self to NEW Heights (actually very old ones). It is just proof that when you think you are smarter than everyone else -- you never learn from the mistakes of the past -- and you are doomed to repeat them.

[Robillion]

As a Christian, I also happen to believe that it is a choice of lifestyle, rather than something you are born with.. but we do not live in Christiandom. We live in the United States of America, where everyone should be treated equally regardless of their religion or their lifestyle.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

the county clerk cannot interject their personal beliefs in the conduct of their office. when they took the oath of their office they agreed to do just that. the county clerk should follow the law of the land no matter if they agree with that law or if they disagree with that law.

gay people do not want any "special rights", gay people just want to have the SAME RIGHTS that straight people enjoy.

it is a case of equal rights. how any american can be opposed to equal rights for all citizens is beyond me.

All people have the same rights.

Yes, gay people can marry a straight person...heck for that matter, straight people can't marry a gay person...so both ways, it's equal rights.

How someone can support the removals of freedom to grant special rights to a person of a lifestyle choice is beyond me.

Equal rights is something I support. We all have the right to refuse someone service/products. So which rights and freedoms do you support?

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Robillion

As a Christian, I also happen to believe that it is a choice of lifestyle, rather than something you are born with.. but we do not live in Christiandom. We live in the United States of America, where everyone should be treated equally regardless of their religion or their lifestyle.

Define Equally.

I mean, should I be paid exactly the same as Bill Gates?
That is Equality. We both live and work 24hrs a day, so we both should be paid the same amount right? Equality.

I should be able to play basketball and be paid like Lebron James (insert name) as well, since although I have several problems with it.......Equality. I choose to play basketball, and I should be equally paid as the best right........

Equality ............ so I choose XXXXXXXXXXX and I think I should be treated fairly in how I am hired, how I am paid, how much I should work.

Then in the end I finally figure out that life isn't fair, and equality is not available.... just someones own deception.

You can have that life.......

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Define Equally.

I mean, should I be paid exactly the same as Bill Gates?
That is Equality. We both live and work 24hrs a day, so we both should be paid the same amount right? Equality.

I should be able to play basketball and be paid like Lebron James (insert name) as well, since although I have several problems with it.......Equality. I choose to play basketball, and I should be equally paid as the best right........

Equality ............ so I choose XXXXXXXXXXX and I think I should be treated fairly in how I am hired, how I am paid, how much I should work.

Then in the end I finally figure out that life isn't fair, and equality is not available.... just someones own deception.

You can have that life.......

equality as it is defined in the constitution of our land.

there is right to quit if you don't get paid what you think you are worth. there is no right to make an employer hire anyone they don't believe can do the work.

you examples of rights to equal pay are a bit on the absurd side don't ya think?

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

equality as it is defined in the constitution of our land.

there is right to quit if you don't get paid what you think you are worth. there is no right to make an employer hire anyone they don't believe can do the work.

you examples of rights to equal pay are a bit on the absurd side don't ya think?

Of course the examples are a bit absurd. They are way exaggerated, but still not the point.

We are not made equally. We do not get paid equally. We do not all have the same ability to learn. We do not all have the same ability at sports. We do not all have the same charisma. We are not all alike.

Equality is a false pretense.

With that said, Gays want equality -- yet that isn't really true. They want to redefine what marriage is. Why? Are they denied in this country the ability to love one another. Nope. Are they denied the ability to live with one another. Nope.

They are denied monetary gain, and the privileges of adding "family" at a reduced cost to insurance.

The entire issue becomes "Right or Wrong" versus Money.

You can decide that self gratification and money are what is right... or you can decide that God made the rules, and his ways are right. Everyone will choose in his lifetime.

[Mavdog]

the concept is not equal pay for every kind of work, the concept being defended is equal pay for equal work.

that equality is not a false pretense. that equality should be practiced.

is the desire by homosexuals to be able to marry about money? yes, mostly. it is about more than that however, it is also the right to enjoy all the benefits, monetary and non-monetary, that are bestowed upon heteroseual couples by society.

g_d did not make the rules in our society governing couples, people made those rules. those rules are unequal in how they bestow rights. and people can change those rules to provide equality to all american citizens.

let's treat all citizens with equality. let's not provide benefits to one group and deny it to another group simply because of their sex or sexual preference.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

let's treat all citizens with equality. let's not provide benefits to one group and deny it to another group simply because of their sex or sexual preference.

This notion in concept is great...it's similar to "Tolerance" However there is a major fault when this concept is put into practice.

To give one the right to something, or to Tolerate something, then you effectively remove the right or the tolerance for the opposite.

Therefore, one must choose which rights and tolerance will they support and thus it is no longer about equal rights...but selective rights.

Think of it this way, what about one right to Pray. Do you believe that anyone has a right to Pray in their faith? If so, then explain how that right is removed when that person is a teacher...

At the end of the day, equal rights is a myth...now we can do our best to treat one another with respect, but why should one group be denied it's beliefs at the expense of a minority lifestyle choice to have special rights?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

This notion in concept is great...it's similar to "Tolerance" However there is a major fault when this concept is put into practice.

To give one the right to something, or to Tolerate something, then you effectively remove the right or the tolerance for the opposite.

Therefore, one must choose which rights and tolerance will they support and thus it is no longer about equal rights...but selective rights.

Think of it this way, what about one right to Pray. Do you believe that anyone has a right to Pray in their faith? If so, then explain how that right is removed when that person is a teacher...

At the end of the day, equal rights is a myth...now we can do our best to treat one another with respect, but why should one group be denied it's beliefs at the expense of a minority lifestyle choice to have special rights?

pure bs.

the teacher has the right to pray. they can pray all they wish. just not out loud with the students as the teacher is working.

the teacher amy enjoy politics, but they shouldn't push their politics on the students either.

the teacher may enjoy sexually flirting with others, but they shouldn't flirt with students either.

see, the students have the right to not be forced to participate with a teacher's varied personal actions.

when they are leading the class, they are a teacher. they are not working to teach the students how to pray, that is done in the church, or the home with their family.

I can't do a lot of personal acts here at work. there are rules of personal conduct.

the above has NOTHING to do with the discussion of equal rights...

[dalmations202]

Actually the only "rights" you have are the ones that someone is willing to defend.

The right to life is defined in the constitution, but it is only valid if you find the people who are willing to give their lives to defend it.

The right to not get raped is defended by the police, and the laws of this land, but take away the people with the power (guns), and it happens. See many third world countries.

Whether or not people will defend this right actually determines whether it is a "right" or not.

You can call yourself King, but if I refuse to treat you like a King, and you don't have the power to defend it -- you aren't king.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

pure bs.

the teacher has the right to pray. they can pray all they wish. just not out loud with the students as the teacher is working.

the teacher amy enjoy politics, but they shouldn't push their politics on the students either.

the teacher may enjoy sexually flirting with others, but they shouldn't flirt with students either.

see, the students have the right to not be forced to participate with a teacher's varied personal actions.

when they are leading the class, they are a teacher. they are not working to teach the students how to pray, that is done in the church, or the home with their family.

I can't do a lot of personal acts here at work. there are rules of personal conduct.

the above has NOTHING to do with the discussion of equal rights...

Excellent, I'm glad you agree with me...based on your take on Prayer, and other conduct by teachers, then you must also believe that a Gay person does not have the right to subject a non-Gay person to thier lifestyle. Thank for defending the rights of others.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Excellent, I'm glad you agree with me...based on your take on Prayer, and other conduct by teachers, then you must also believe that a Gay person does not have the right to subject a non-Gay person to thier lifestyle. Thank for defending the rights of others.

what? I don't agree with you.

in no way does allowing a gay person the right to marry, to grant gay people equal rights to those enjoyed by heterosexual people, is "subjecting" ANYONE to their lifestyle.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Equal rights is something I support. We all have the right to refuse someone service/products. So which rights and freedoms do you support?

Again, if it applies to sexuality, then it must also apply to religion and political views. Those are "choices." If you can refuse someone service or employment because your religion disapproves of their lifestyle, then what if your religion says theirs is blasphemous? Should someone have the right to refuse service to jews or muslims? Or atheists?

Slippery slope, son.

And frankly, "the bible says so" isn't good enough. If you can use your religious beliefs to justify discrimination, you can use it to justify anything. That's what they do in the middle east, and it's dangerous.

And I still fail to see what "special rights" are being granted to gays here... The same rights that every other american has?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

what? I don't agree with you.

in no way does allowing a gay person the right to marry, to grant gay people equal rights to those enjoyed by heterosexual people, is "subjecting" ANYONE to their lifestyle.

Yeah, I'm not sure what he means either.

[92bDad]

Can a gay person marry a hetero person? YES

Can a Hetero marry a gay person? NO

Looks like we all have the same rights.

[rmacomic]

nm

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Can a gay person marry a hetero person? YES

Can a Hetero marry a gay person? NO

Looks like we all have the same rights.

[bernardos70]

92bDad, I'm slobbering all over myself at the prospect of rebutting 90% of your comments, but everytime I read a new post by you I get new and more salivating points to rebut.

Right now I'll just make one point: is that clerk who refused to do this job because of his religious beliefs right? Are those God-issued certificates? I wouldn't wanna be caught handing out those Authentic God-issued certificates out. If you don't wanna accept gay marriage in your religion, then so be it. This marriage certificate isn't a religious paper, it is a government paper, man-made (or woman-made, or transgender-made) document. Not a blessing from any god.

I don't dislike you personally, but I strongly disagree with most of your views here and feel like you're grasping at straws.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by bernardos70

92bDad, I'm slobbering all over myself at the prospect of rebutting 90% of your comments, but everytime I read a new post by you I get new and more salivating points to rebut.

Right now I'll just make one point: is that clerk who refused to do this job because of his religious beliefs right? Are those God-issued certificates? I wouldn't wanna be caught handing out those Authentic God-issued certificates out. If you don't wanna accept gay marriage in your religion, then so be it. This marriage certificate isn't a religious paper, it is a government paper, man-made (or woman-made, or transgender-made) document. Not a blessing from any god.

I don't dislike you personally, but I strongly disagree with most of your views here and feel like you're grasping at straws.

Finally someone who GETS IT!!!

We can disagree with a furious passion...but we don't have to dislike one another.

That what living with respect for one another is ALL about!!!

The entire point of perhaps ALL of my posts is to emphasize that there is another perspective, another view.

It's not that I'm right or wrong, nor that your right or wrong...or than any other poster is right or wrong.

Now I stand by my views, my beliefs that's my choice as do all the posters on this and other boards.

Regarding the topic of this thread. What is taking place or being attempted to take place is the squelching of free speech at the side of Gay rights.

For a Preacher to preach about the biblical sins of homosexuality is at stake. Somehow we got sidetracked, but hey it's a message board and no thread would be legit if it didn't chase a few rabbits.

Under these so called "Hate Crimes" - they could prosecute a person of faith who preaches on the sins of homosexuality.

Yet, if an athiest preaches on the myth of religion...should that not also fall on the list of "Hate Crimes"

For me to share my opinion that "Gay Rights" are a myth, because to participate in a Gay lifestyle means to have sex with someone of the same sex. This doesn't prevent a person who enjoys Gay sex from any of the benefits currently enjoyed by all other Americans.

A Gay person can protest and preach against any specified faith, just as any person of faith can preach against the Gas lifestyle.

Again, for the most part anyone can get married to ONE person of the opposite sex...regardless straight or gay, you can get married, provided its to the opposite sex. Currently not even a Straight person can marry someone of the same sex. So again, this is an EQUAL Right...but I digress...

If anything the government should get out of the business of Marriage/Civil Unions...leave that business to the Church.

In terms of the rights or privelages...they relate to Insurance, Taxes, Death Benefits etc... Seems to me to have a pretty EASY solution.

No more marriage clause...a person files for Taxes, they file as head of household with 'x' number of dependants.

This would actually allow for those who believe in the right to have Mulitple wives to claim their entire family as dependants.

They have Straight Church, Gay Church...so again, there are options for so many lifestyles, to use the government to mandate is crazy.

By the way, this would remove the need for anyone to get a marriage license...rather it would fall on the whole Tax set up to check the status of the Head of Household and his/her dependants.

This way the "Clerk" can go on, work, receive and income and not be forced to go against their beliefs.

The same goes for Insurance and Death Benefits. First on Death...that what a WILL is for. As for Insurance, when you first apply, you put down your DEPENDANTS to be covered. The Insurance company has standards that will enable that person to be covered or not. It's a free market, their are options for people to be covered.

So again, what rights does anybody want that you don't already have today?

Equal rights currently exist and the system is fair to everyone.

Dangit...there I go again... freakin long winded...time for me to bust out for a while...need to connect with clients and get some end of month reports done.

Thanks for reaching out and sharing your opinions...you are truly well respected!!!

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

From that link you provided I was curious about this tidbit:Huh? That's a leap isn't it? Are they implying that because of Christian belief that homosexuality is a sin the government will outlaw Christian faith? Obama is a Christian. Why would that be a part of his agenda?

Is he really a Christian?