2021-2022 Preseason and camp thread - Page 12 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

FreshJive · 06-15-2021, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Drafting Ayton over Luka is a big part in why they are in the WCF though

Bro what?

I guess if you are a person who could somehow have that as a real opinion, then you would have to forgive the Mavs for not being able to assemble a better team than the Suns, because in your crazy ass world the Suns drafted the better player.

FreshJive · 06-15-2021, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Yes no reason to use relevant benchmarks. Go Mavs.

This has to be trolling.

SMC0007 · 06-15-2021, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

This has to be trolling.

I dont believe so. I temporarily ran out of ways to help.

Zeus · 06-15-2021, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Bro what?

I guess if you are a person who could somehow have that as a real opinion, then you would have to forgive the Mavs for not being able to assemble a better team than the Suns, because in your crazy ass world the Suns drafted the better player.

Mavs picked the better player. Phx organization has done more in the past year to move improve their team. Can't both things be true? In no world is Ayton even within a mile of Luka but the Mavs have sat on their hands for the past 2 years. Why is this so hard to get?

Some Guy · 06-15-2021, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Mavs picked the better player. Phx organization has done more in the past year to move improve their team. Can't both things be true? In no world is Ayton even within a mile of Luka but the Mavs have sat on their hands for the past 2 years. Why is this so hard to get?

Isn't this Booker's 6th year? Phoenix has been building that team, and sucking (missed the playoffs completely) for 10 years. The last time they had made the playoffs was before the Mavs won a championship. With 10 years of lottery picks, they sure as heck should have a better team than Dallas. After 10 years of building they were able to acquire the final pieces (Paul and Crowder) this year. Good for them. But that doesn't say anything about the Mavs, who are in a very different situation. It's just a terrible comparison.

This is at most the 5th year of Dallas's rebuild (counting from when they started missing the playoffs). Where was Phoenix in year 5? They sure as heck weren't the 5th seed.

Ayton is Phoenix's 3rd best player. If Luka was Dallas's 3rd best player, I'm fairly confident they would still be playing.

Dallas41 · 06-16-2021, 12:25 AM

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2021/6...llas-mavericks

Less Mark Cuban would be helpful for the Dallas Mavericks

The Dallas owner is a consistent part of the Maverick narrative

We’ve often wondered why the Mavericks aren’t a free agent destination. After the 2011 title, the argument was Dirk Nowitzki’s age and the market weren’t appealing. There are reasonable theories about Rick Carlisle’s coaching and churlish nature. Now, we have thoughts about Luka Doncic’s ball dominance being detrimental. All of these things have credence, but what we don’t talk enough about is Cuban himself.

The organization, often aided by positive local media coverage, puts forth a constant public relations spin that they are the best and brightest and that given the right set of circumstances, will put together a championship contender. It’s been a decade since the title and the results speak for themselves: NBA legend Dirk Nowitzki finished his career on a sub-.500 team, the franchise has six first round exits, and now have an NBA megastar possibly frustrated with the front office after two early postseason eliminations.

Dtownsfinest · 06-16-2021, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Bro what?

I guess if you are a person who could somehow have that as a real opinion, then you would have to forgive the Mavs for not being able to assemble a better team than the Suns, because in your crazy ass world the Suns drafted the better player.

No genius. What I'm saying is the Suns are one of the best defensive teams in the league. If they were all offense they'd just be another team. Like the Mavs. Ayton manning the paint is what allows them to do what they do on defense. If you don't understand that then you don't understand basketball.

Dtownsfinest · 06-16-2021, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Perhaps we are worst of the 3. I wouldn't argue that very long. I think KP playing like he did muddies the waters a lot. If he got us 20/9 every game it might had been enough to overcome it.

I'm just saying the argument of mavs organization = garbage because Ayton and Trae passed the first round is ....dumb.

Naw yeah that's a flawed argument I couldn't get behind. But make no mistake Ayton and Trae have better rosters around them and they've done it in a short span...

Dtownsfinest · 06-16-2021, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Mavs picked the better player. Phx organization has done more in the past year to move improve their team. Can't both things be true? In no world is Ayton even within a mile of Luka but the Mavs have sat on their hands for the past 2 years. Why is this so hard to get?

I think he's too emotional right now to see things right...most won't see it until its too late. But I sat here and watched this team waste Dirk's prime and trying to do it with Luka now...

Dtownsfinest · 06-16-2021, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Some Guy

Isn't this Booker's 6th year? Phoenix has been building that team, and sucking (missed the playoffs completely) for 10 years. The last time they had made the playoffs was before the Mavs won a championship. With 10 years of lottery picks, they sure as heck should have a better team than Dallas. After 10 years of building they were able to acquire the final pieces (Paul and Crowder) this year. Good for them. But that doesn't say anything about the Mavs, who are in a very different situation. It's just a terrible comparison.

This is at most the 5th year of Dallas's rebuild (counting from when they started missing the playoffs). Where was Phoenix in year 5? They sure as heck weren't the 5th seed.

Ayton is Phoenix's 3rd best player. If Luka was Dallas's 3rd best player, I'm fairly confident they would still be playing.

The Suns and Hawks were bad teams not too long ago...hell neither one made the playoffs last year....the Mavs did. The Hawks and Suns have been rebuilding for the past 2 years....James Jones made some gutsy moves to get that team right and they have paid off. Chris Paul was out there for the taken. He had the vision to replace Rubio with him...now they are in the WCF.

FreshJive · 06-16-2021, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

No genius. What I'm saying is the Suns are one of the best defensive teams in the league. If they were all offense they'd just be another team. Like the Mavs. Ayton manning the paint is what allows them to do what they do on defense. If you don't understand that then you don't understand basketball.

Bridges and Luka would have been a much better draft than Ayton and Bridges. If you don't understand that then you don't understand basketball.

FreshJive · 06-16-2021, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Mavs picked the better player. Phx organization has done more in the past year to move improve their team. Can't both things be true? In no world is Ayton even within a mile of Luka but the Mavs have sat on their hands for the past 2 years. Why is this so hard to get?

"Drafting Ayton over Luka is a big part in why they are in the WCF though"

This is what he posted

FreshJive · 06-16-2021, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Mavs picked the better player. Phx organization has done more in the past year to move improve their team. Can't both things be true? In no world is Ayton even within a mile of Luka but the Mavs have sat on their hands for the past 2 years. Why is this so hard to get?

The Mavs made a good gamble on KP, ridding themselves of the trash that was DSJ. They then completely botched the subsequent offseason WHICH I HAVE POSTED MULTIPLE TIMES. Why is this so hard to get? Comparing what round Ayton, Trae and Luka have made it to is about as stupid as analysis can get. If any Mavs employees are using this as any kind of metric, they should be fired, but like SMC already explained to you, no one who is employed by an NBA team is this stupid. This is Hawk twitter fan talk. Maybe that dumb ass twitter scout (Rashad Phillips) that called Luka a second round pick would agree with you.

Dtownsfinest · 06-16-2021, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Bridges and Luka would have been a much better draft than Ayton and Bridges. If you don't understand that then you don't understand basketball.

Who gives a damn about winning a draft? You build your team to win a championship….you want to win the draft awards…what does that get you? Some wings and a Diet Coke?

Dtownsfinest · 06-16-2021, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

The Mavs made a good gamble on KP, ridding themselves of the trash that was DSJ. They then completely botched the subsequent offseason WHICH I HAVE POSTED MULTIPLE TIMES. Why is this so hard to get? Comparing what round Ayton, Trae and Luka have made it to is about as stupid as analysis can get. If any Mavs employees are using this as any kind of metric, they should be fired, but like SMC already explained to you, no one who is employed by an NBA team is this stupid. This is Hawk twitter fan talk. Maybe that dumb ass twitter scout (Rashad Phillips) that called Luka a second round pick would agree with you.

Funny the Knicks rid themselves of KP and finally make the playoffs.

FreshJive · 06-16-2021, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Who gives a damn about winning a draft? You build your team to win a championship….you want to win the draft awards…what does that get you? Some wings and a Diet Coke?

Drafting better players means you have better players on your team. Zeus said that Bey wins the Mavs the Clippers series. You claimed that Ayton over Luka is the reason the Suns are going to the WCF. Don’t make up silly things like “draft awards” to deflect from your ridiculous post.

FreshJive · 06-16-2021, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Funny the Knicks rid themselves of KP and finally make the playoffs.

Made the playoffs in the east. Mavs would smash them in a series. KP wouldn’t even need to play.

Dtownsfinest · 06-16-2021, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Drafting better players means you have better players on your team. Zeus said that Bey wins the Mavs the Clippers series. You claimed that Ayton over Luka is the reason the Suns are going to the WCF. Don’t make up silly things like “draft awards” to deflect from your ridiculous post.

I made up nothing. You keep bragging that the Mavs won Luka..meanwhile, the Suns have the best defense in the league and it surely ain’t because of Saric or Frank the Tank….

Dtownsfinest · 06-16-2021, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Made the playoffs in the east. Mavs would smash them in a series. KP wouldn’t even need to play.

The point isn’t who’s better. The point is the Knicks got better ridding themselves of him and the Mavs are stagnant with him.

FreshJive · 06-16-2021, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I made up nothing. You keep bragging that the Mavs won Luka..meanwhile, the Suns have the best defense in the league and it surely ain’t because of Saric or Frank the Tank….

So they have draft award championships? I wasn’t aware. You guys brought up the Hawks and Suns. I only pointed out that they passed on the best player in the draft.

FreshJive · 06-16-2021, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

The point isn’t who’s better. The point is the Knicks got better ridding themselves of him and the Mavs are stagnant with him.

Actually the Mavs made the playoffs after trading for Porzingis both seasons after previously missing them, so…. Sure, he got injured and hasn’t been the same since. That’s why it’s a gamble. Kind of like signing Julius Randle when no one else wants to take the cap space you cleared to sign Kyrie and KD. Did you seriously think it was a bad idea to trade Dennis fake sick Jr for the Unicorn when the trade went down?

Dtownsfinest · 06-16-2021, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

So they have draft award championships? I wasn’t aware. You guys brought up the Hawks and Suns. I only pointed out that they passed on the best player in the draft.

They passed up the chance to have the highest scoring offense in the league in order to have the best defense.

Zeus · 06-16-2021, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

The Mavs made a good gamble on KP, ridding themselves of the trash that was DSJ. They then completely botched the subsequent offseason WHICH I HAVE POSTED MULTIPLE TIMES. Why is this so hard to get? Comparing what round Ayton, Trae and Luka have made it to is about as stupid as analysis can get. If any Mavs employees are using this as any kind of metric, they should be fired, but like SMC already explained to you, no one who is employed by an NBA team is this stupid. This is Hawk twitter fan talk. Maybe that dumb ass twitter scout (Rashad Phillips) that called Luka a second round pick would agree with you.

Who are you confusing me with?
- Luka is the best player of his generation by a long shot e.g. Ayton, Trae et al
- Is it not true that Phoenix and Atlanta have both gone from worse than the Mavs to better in 12 months
- you cant keep using the 10 years before that as some sort of evidence
- You need to treat each season as an opportunity for improvement through free agency, drafts and trades. A Bayesian approach to where are you at right now regardless of what happened 10 years ago.

My bottom line is: There is a world in which the Mavs made different moves starting in 2018 but especially 2019/2020 that would have better positioned a top 5 player in the world to progress past the first round before year 4.

Dtownsfinest · 06-16-2021, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Actually the Mavs made the playoffs after trading for Porzingis both seasons after previously missing them, so…. Sure, he got injured and hasn’t been the same since. That’s why it’s a gamble. Kind of like signing Julius Randle when no one else wants to take the cap space you cleared to sign Kyrie and KD. Did you seriously think it was a bad idea to trade Dennis fake sick Jr for the Unicorn when the trade went down?

Not at all. I'm on record for saying I have no issue with the KP move but that doesn't mean it was a success or that there weren't risks involved.

SMC0007 · 06-16-2021, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Who are you confusing me with?
- Luka is the best player of his generation by a long shot e.g. Ayton, Trae et al
- Is it not true that Phoenix and Atlanta have both gone from worse than the Mavs to better in 12 months
- you cant keep using the 10 years before that as some sort of evidence
- You need to treat each season as an opportunity for improvement through free agency, drafts and trades. A Bayesian approach to where are you at right now regardless of what happened 10 years ago.

My bottom line is: There is a world in which the Mavs made different moves starting in 2018 but especially 2019/2020 that would have better positioned a top 5 player in the world to progress past the first round before year 4.

Phx had a better record, the Hawks did not. Please.. Stop using playoff series in a different conference vs a different (lesser) team than we played to compare. Regardless of if they are a better overall team or not, it's flawed logic.

tap2390 · 06-16-2021, 12:48 PM

PHX and ATL comparisons are useless because Mavs haven't had the assets or cap space to make the moves they did (primarily because of the KP trade). In hindsight, we shouldn't have traded for KP. Hindsight is 20/20.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-16-2021, 12:59 PM

Donnie is out!!! Writing was on the wall after those stupid ass Luka comments. Thank god.

SMC0007 · 06-16-2021, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Donnie is out!!! Writing was on the wall after those stupid ass Luka comments. Thank god.

Wow. Well step 1 of troubleshooting the FO has taken place.

At best it was really tone deaf and careless word choice by Donnie.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-16-2021, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Wow. Well step 1 of troubleshooting the FO has taken place.

At best it was really tone deaf and careless word choice by Donnie.

And the article yesterday was the nail in the coffin. No way this happens if there wasn't any truth to that piece. I just hope moneyball guy is gone too.

Edit: Tmac says the decision to part ways was made Sunday, but that sounds like an excuse to dismiss that article. I call BS.

SMC0007 · 06-16-2021, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And the article yesterday was the nail in the coffin. No way this happens if there wasn't any truth to that piece. I just hope moneyball guy is gone too.

Who is going to be the guy? Masai Ujiri available? I'm lacking on available GMs.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-16-2021, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Who is going to be the guy? Masai Ujiri available? I'm lacking on available GMs.

Great question. Finley? Ainge? Ujiri? Actually a few pretty good options.

Melonhead · 06-16-2021, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Donnie is out!!! Writing was on the wall after those stupid ass Luka comments. Thank god.

Byeeeee

FreshJive · 06-16-2021, 01:27 PM

So was Donnie the leak for the Cato story?

BPo001 · 06-16-2021, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Great question. Finley? Ainge? Ujiri? Actually a few pretty good options.

Thought Ujiri was still in Toronto? Doubt Ainge but a interested since he just stepped down. I’d imagine Finley will at least get an interview. No idea who else might be available.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-16-2021, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

So was Donnie the leak for the Cato story?

Cato replied to the question on twitter saying he wasn't. Can't seem to find the link to the reply though.

SMC0007 · 06-16-2021, 01:35 PM

They apparently hired a firm to search for GM. If they were leaning toward Finley, why go through the firm.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-16-2021, 01:41 PM

Kevin O'Conner said Voulgaris is out as well. Hoping to find a better source.

https://twitter.com/JustEsBaraheni/s...32723296407552

I mean, this should be pretty obvious after the article anyway. No way he stays.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-16-2021, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

They apparently hired a firm to search for GM. If they were leaning toward Finley, why go through the firm.

Not only that, but I'm sure they're trying to break their overly loyal image.

Melonhead · 06-16-2021, 01:42 PM

Glad they’re doing a search firm and not an internal search. Gives me the feeling Cuban knows he has to take a step back.

Also Kevin O Connor has heard that moneyball is out too. well see on that tho.

SMC0007 · 06-16-2021, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Cato replied to the question on twitter saying he wasn't. Can't seem to find the link to the reply though.

Can't imagine Donnie doing that. Knock him all you want about decisions but leaking info like that is beneath him IMO. Childs play.