Odom unhappy about possible Pacers trade: By Marc Stein / ESPN.com - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

V2M · 06-05-2007, 10:59 PM

Stein's notebook: Odom unhappy about possible Pacers trade
Stein

Not quite sure why there's a vibe in circulation that the Lakers trading for Jermaine O'Neal, as a means of appeasing Kobe Bryant, is some sort of new concept.

Haven't we been talking about this for more than a month?

Wasn't it more like April when this idea was broached, with O'Neal letting it slip in Indiana that he wouldn't mind winding up in Lakerland and Kobe struggling to restrain himself as he spoke of teaming up with his pal from the 1996 draft?

"There's not a lot I can say about it right now," Bryant offered some six weeks ago, long before his recent spree of hourly interviews to advance the idea that he wants to leave L.A. "But if it gets to the point that Jermaine wants to be here instead of Indy, we'd love to have him. We'd be crazy not to."

Kobe and Lamar

Kobe would love to play with Jermaine O'Neal. Later, Lamar?

As stated in this cyberspace a week ago, I've heard nothing in the last month to sway me from the belief that O'Neal is the most realistic big-time trade target for L.A., far more realistic than Jason Kidd or Kevin Garnett. The Pacers, according to NBA front office sources, are increasingly open to moving their center -- especially to a Western Conference team -- and have expressed interest in Lakers forward Lamar Odom, center Andrew Bynum, Kwame Brown's expiring contract and the Lakers' first-round pick later this month … which is only a so-so pick at No. 19 until you remember that Indy, at present, has no first-round pick.

The new wrinkle here?

It's the increasing volume on rumblings that Odom doesn't want to go to Indiana.

He might not have a choice, obviously, with the Lakers believed to be desperate to make some sort of statement trade to appease Bryant before the June 28 draft.

But sources close to Odom indicate the 27-year-old would be "quite unhappy" if he's sent to the Pacers in an O'Neal deal … and that it would take a three-year contract extension from the Pacers (or any team that makes a move for him) to get Odom "on board" with a trade. No word yet on how that might factor into Indy's decision making.

The lanky lefty has two seasons left on his contract after this season runs out, at $13.2 million and $14.1 million. Packaging Odom and Bynum would get the Lakers close to O'Neal's salary-cap number -- $18.1 million if the trade happened before the draft and $19.8 million if it happened after July 1 -- but at least one other low-salaried Laker (such as Sasha Vujacic) would have to be included.

The Lakers are expected to resist Indy's efforts to expand the deal to include Jamaal Tinsley, even though they need a point guard as much as anything, because plugging a non-shooter like Tinsley into Phil Jackson's triangle offense holds little appeal.

If you're thinking, incidentally, that Odom and Bynum is a lot to give up for O'Neal -- even without a draft choice thrown in -- you'll surely recall that the Lakers had an opportunity to trade for Kidd in February without including Odom. Bynum and Brown's expiring contract would have been the Jersey-bound cornerstones of that deal -- creating a Bryant-Kidd-Odom trio -- but Bynum still had an untouchable tag at that point. That's no longer the case, according to L.A. sources.

Of course, leverage to make a not-so-lopsided deal is something that the Lakers have a lot less of than they did before Bryant's back-and-forth "trade me/scratch that" media blitz. Bryant hammered the Lakers' front office about as loudly as possible with his criticisms of their decisions and/or inaction since trading Shaquille O'Neal away in the summer of 2004, but "crippled" is the word used by one source close to the situation to describe the position Bryant's bosses find themselves in as a result.

Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com.

Edit: Wonder if Mavs can jump into the fold offering some combination of Damp/Terry/Picks and end up with Odom?

fluid.forty.one · 06-05-2007, 11:25 PM

I thought this said Oden and I was about to go down to Kevin Prichards house and kick him in the face.

alby · 06-06-2007, 01:41 AM

I really think Odom would fit very well with Jho and Dirk. I don't think it's ever going to happen but you never know these days..

Knickfan · 06-06-2007, 09:55 AM

If the Mavs were able to acquire Odom, give them the championship that DAY they sign him. If they were able to keep what they have in tact. If they were able to get Odom for something nominal and keep their pieces in place. In that situation and ONLY that situation I would be for them keeping Jason Terry because Odom would take over the ball handling duties. Defending their frontline would be a NIGHTMARE.. Jho at 3, Odom at Point 4 and Dirk at 5... GIVE THEM THE CHAMPIONSHIP!

dalmations202 · 06-06-2007, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knickfan

If the Mavs were able to acquire Odom, give them the championship that DAY they sign him. If they were able to keep what they have in tact. If they were able to get Odom for something nominal and keep their pieces in place. In that situation and ONLY that situation I would be for them keeping Jason Terry because Odom would take over the ball handling duties. Defending their frontline would be a NIGHTMARE.. Jho at 3, Odom at Point 4 and Dirk at 5... GIVE THEM THE CHAMPIONSHIP!

Last line of defense is Dirk.

Let's see, should Phx be shaking in their boots.

Dirk vs Amare -- Both great on offense, who stops who?
Odom vs Diaw/Marion -- ???
JHo vs Marion/Diaw --- small advantage Marion
Bell vs Harris
Nash vs Terry

Just my opinion, but Dallas will never win a championship if Dirk is the last line of defense. Dirk needs to play by a player that can defend the paint, and he needs to be a help/rebounder. Dirk is very good at that role.

alby · 06-06-2007, 10:16 AM

it would be
PG
Howard
Odom
Dirk
C

dalmations202 · 06-06-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

it would be
PG
Howard
Odom
Dirk
C

Now this might work wonderfully.

V2M · 06-06-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

it would be
PG
Howard
Odom
Dirk
C

Exactly. Make it Devin/Josh/Odom/Dirk/Diop... that lineup gives you size, speed, defense, scoring and bloody freakin' rebounding!!

Knickfan · 06-06-2007, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Last line of defense is Dirk.

Let's see, should Phx be shaking in their boots.

Dirk vs Amare -- Both great on offense, who stops who?
Odom vs Diaw/Marion -- ???
JHo vs Marion/Diaw --- small advantage Marion
Bell vs Harris
Nash vs Terry

Just my opinion, but Dallas will never win a championship if Dirk is the last line of defense. Dirk needs to play by a player that can defend the paint, and he needs to be a help/rebounder. Dirk is very good at that role.

I don't known if I necessarily agree with this. Dirk is bad when he has to guard on the perimeter or guard someone one on one, Dirk is NOT bad at all in help defense. Odom is actually a good rebounder and he's not terrible defensively and Howard isn't either. The mavs big men get into trouble because the Mavs have TERRIBLE perimeter defenders, they slow NO ONE DOWN! How many times in the Warriors series did a guard come full speed ahead into the lane without ANYONE slowing them down????? When that happens, your big men have no chance. That's why in that regards, I'm not sure I necessarily agree that Dirk would be a terrible last line of defense. Would he be dominant, NEVER but I think he'd be good.

Also WHO in the league has slowed Amare down on a consistent basis???? I saw Amare light up Duncan before and tell me Duncan isn't good defensively?? I don't care who you put in there defensively you can ONLY slow Amare down, NO ONE will stop him but Steve Nash!

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 06-06-2007, 11:01 AM

I'd be on board for that. But I don't see anyway the Lakers take Damp. In fact I don't think any team will take on Damp's contract.

Knickfan · 06-06-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

it would be
PG
Howard
Odom
Dirk
C

I think this line up would work but I think another line up that would work well also would be

Pg
Stackhouse
Howard
Odom
Dirk

I like that because Stackhouse gives you some toughness on the perimeter that the Mavs so desperately need!

bobatundi · 06-06-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

I'd be on board for that. But I don't see anyway the Lakers take Damp. In fact I don't think any team will take on Damp's contract.

Whenever you think there's no way the Mavs would ever be able to move someone's contract, just say these two words:

Raef LaFrentz

alby · 06-06-2007, 01:04 PM

Stack can't defend on the perimeter either. That's why I would put Howard at SG. He needs to focus less on scoring all the points (he loves to shoot ever since becoming an allstar) and focus a little more on man to man defense. With Odom, he can take some of the offensive load off of Dirk and Howard because he can score from outside or inside; not to mention, he can handle the ball as well since Josh's handling is the greatest.

Devin, Josh, Odom, Dirk, Diop would be a nice lineup with Stack and a backup PG on the bench.

dalmations202 · 06-06-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knickfan

I don't known if I necessarily agree with this. Dirk is bad when he has to guard on the perimeter or guard someone one on one, Dirk is NOT bad at all in help defense. Odom is actually a good rebounder and he's not terrible defensively and Howard isn't either. The mavs big men get into trouble because the Mavs have TERRIBLE perimeter defenders, they slow NO ONE DOWN! How many times in the Warriors series did a guard come full speed ahead into the lane without ANYONE slowing them down????? When that happens, your big men have no chance. That's why in that regards, I'm not sure I necessarily agree that Dirk would be a terrible last line of defense. Would he be dominant, NEVER but I think he'd be good.

Also WHO in the league has slowed Amare down on a consistent basis???? I saw Amare light up Duncan before and tell me Duncan isn't good defensively?? I don't care who you put in there defensively you can ONLY slow Amare down, NO ONE will stop him but Steve Nash!

When Dallas plays SA, who covers Duncan with that lineup, Dirk? If so, he is in foul trouble and on the bench in less than 24min.

I have stated that Dirk is a good help defender, just not a last line of defense. He is not a nasty shotblocker or a beast inside with strength. He is not a one on one defender, IMO. Not that he isn't OK at it, he just isn't "really good" at it.

I would think with the way Phx has played for the last few years -- good during the season, but can't defend when stops are needed in the playoffs, that most would not want a Dirk/Odom frontline, unless they are pairing it with a Diop, DJ, or Damp who can block shots.

I still remember the Raef days, and he wasn't a last line of defense either, IMO. Good on the offensive end, but couldn't get stops. Ideally, the guy they need on the frontline needs to be OK on offense with low-post moves, and a very good defender as to provide that last line of defense - preferrably a shot blocker, so Dirk can be the help defender.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 06-06-2007, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Ideally, the guy they need on the frontline needs to be OK on offense with low-post moves, and a very good defender as to provide that last line of defense - preferrably a shot blocker, so Dirk can be the help defender.

rakesh.s · 06-06-2007, 07:35 PM

If I'm the lakers i'd honestly have Lamar Odom over O'Neal.

Jermaine O'Neal is always hurt, and couldn't even lead his team to the playoffs in the east. He talks too much and plays very little.

alby · 06-07-2007, 12:06 AM

I agree, Odom is very undervalued IMO in Los Angeles

Knickfan · 06-07-2007, 08:58 AM

Quote:

I agree, Odom is very undervalued IMO in Los Angeles

Exactly and that's why if the Lakers are looking to deal him, someone who has a chance to get to the finals should grab him because he is a GREAT asset.

Quote:

When Dallas plays SA, who covers Duncan with that lineup, Dirk? If so, he is in foul trouble and on the bench in less than 24min.

I have stated that Dirk is a good help defender, just not a last line of defense. He is not a nasty shotblocker or a beast inside with strength. He is not a one on one defender, IMO. Not that he isn't OK at it, he just isn't "really good" at it.

I would think with the way Phx has played for the last few years -- good during the season, but can't defend when stops are needed in the playoffs, that most would not want a Dirk/Odom frontline, unless they are pairing it with a Diop, DJ, or Damp who can block shots.

I still remember the Raef days, and he wasn't a last line of defense either, IMO. Good on the offensive end, but couldn't get stops. Ideally, the guy they need on the frontline needs to be OK on offense with low-post moves, and a very good defender as to provide that last line of defense - preferrably a shot blocker, so Dirk can be the help defender.

I'm not saying Dirk is the BEST option as the last line of defense but I do think if he's good at anything defensively that's what he's good at, help defense. Either way I wouldn't be upset with that line up and granted you are right in certain matchups the Mavs would need a Diop or someone of his caliber (sorry I just don't care for Damp that much) to block shots and eat up space. Like I've always said though, the Suns and the Spurs are two teams and although you would play them in the playoffs more than likely, you do have to get there and that line up against the majority of the west would win.

Just a quick point, when Raef was in Dallas, it was a completely different system.