Documents Contradict Gonzales' Testimony - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Janett_Reno · 07-25-2007, 08:24 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Documents indicate eight congressional leaders were briefed about the Bush administration's terrorist surveillance program on the eve of its expiration in 2004, contradicting sworn Senate testimony this week by Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.

The documents underscore questions about Gonzales' credibility as senators consider whether a perjury investigation should be opened into conflicting accounts about the program and a dramatic March 2004 confrontation leading up to its potentially illegal reauthorization.

A Gonzales spokesman maintained Wednesday that the attorney general stands by his testimony.

Read more here....

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/A...=1&oref=slogin

dude1394 · 07-26-2007, 01:41 AM

The investigation congress continues as their poll numbers fall closer and closer to single digits.

Janett_Reno · 07-26-2007, 12:54 PM

Like Bush & Cheney?

dude1394 · 07-26-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

Like Bush & Cheney?

No far worse than bush and cheney. Dubya is at about 39% Approval rating.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...h_job_approval

Congress is at what? 19% at best?

Quote:

Public opinion of Congress remains near the lowest levels every recorded. Just 16% of American voters now say that Congress is doing a Good (13%) or an Excellent (3%) job. That’s unchanged from a month ago but down from 26% at the end of May. The current ratings are just a single point above the ratings for the Republican controlled Congress heading into Election 2006.

Mavdog · 07-26-2007, 05:28 PM

this "controversy" on the firing of prosecutors was a big bag of nothing, as the prosecutors serve and work for the executive branch, so the pres can hire and fire as they wish....

until gonzalez goes in front of a congressional committee and (apparently) lies to them.

now it's (apparently) a case of perjury, and that's serious stuff.

especially if there's a paper trail that shows that gonzalez lied.

he's toast...

Janett_Reno · 07-26-2007, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

No far worse than bush and cheney. Dubya is at about 39% Approval rating.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...h_job_approval

Congress is at what? 19% at best?

You just showed job approval ratting.

This is also Rassmusen Report polling.... No contest, the Dems win 10 out of 10. Oh, go here and look and enjoy.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...rust_on_issues

I think you need to go do some preaching because what you are saying a "conservative" is, seems to be down in the polls to Dems. The Dems now are trusted more than Repubs in, Nat'l Security, Taxes ,Education, Abortion, Immigration, Economy, War in Iraq, Soc. Security, Ethics & Corruption ,Healthcare. It looks like to me, the neo cons have threw a wrench in the wheel when they say passinate conservative. That sounds so sweet and nice, almost like a phrase Ted Haggard would use.

Issue

Net Dem Advtg.

Nat'l Security
42%
40%
+2

Taxes
43%
41%
+2

Education
41%
37%
+4

Abortion
42%
37%
+5

Immigration
40%
30%
+10

Economy
47%
38%
+9

War in Iraq
47%
35%
+12

Soc. Security
47%
34%
+13

Ethics & Corruption
38%
25%
+13

Healthcare
50%
33%
+17

dude1394 · 07-26-2007, 10:54 PM

Democrat congress. 16%. You spin it how you want. No matter how you spin it, the democrat congress gets lower ratings than dubya.

In your lunatic world, I guess it's actually cheney. Nuts..

Janett_Reno · 07-26-2007, 11:05 PM

Spin the 10 i just put up. I am not defending congress or the Senate at all and i am sure not defending the pres and vice pres.

dude1394 · 07-27-2007, 12:09 AM

This congress will probably go down as the most clueless in history. But they'll have the most hearings and the momst subpoenas.

Better be careful reid, that crap only goes so far before you actually have to try and govern.

Janett_Reno · 07-27-2007, 12:32 AM

Watch 08, the Republicans will lose more Senate and house seats because of Cheney/Bush. I know you fell the Reps will take it back because of the strong showing of Bush/Cheney but we will see who is right after the 08 house and senate elections.

dude1394 · 07-27-2007, 01:54 AM

They may very well janet. If so it will be because they are more willing to lose seats than keep them if it means losing in Iraq, providing islamic radicals with another victory, abandaning another US ally to genocide and endangering many other more moderate arab countries.

Political courage is in short supply, especially in the democrat party.

If the be-all end-all is getting elected, then you've backed the right party, because they are more than willing to let potentially hundreds of thousands die to get elected.

Janett_Reno · 07-27-2007, 02:27 AM

What is your solution in Iraq? We are there and if it is right or wrong, we are there. Can we stay forever? We couldn't in Vietnam. I am all for hearing solutions on both sides for what is best.

I agree about politcal courage and in both parties. When you say hundreds of thousands,are you talking about citizens of Iraq, muslims, Americans or what? It nees to be some plan.

As it stands now it looks grim if we just sit and stay and it looks grim if we pull out. I would love to hear suggestions by all our politcal people and parties. As i said we are there in Iraq, no matter if we should be or not and i like hearing suggestions and i feel we need help from more countries to help us.

dude1394 · 07-27-2007, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

What is your solution in Iraq? We are there and if it is right or wrong, we are there. Can we stay forever? We couldn't in Vietnam. I am all for hearing solutions on both sides for what is best.

I agree about politcal courage and in both parties. When you say hundreds of thousands,are you talking about citizens of Iraq, muslims, Americans or what? It nees to be some plan.

As it stands now it looks grim if we just sit and stay and it looks grim if we pull out. I would love to hear suggestions by all our politcal people and parties. As i said we are there in Iraq, no matter if we should be or not and i like hearing suggestions and i feel we need help from more countries to help us.

Well if you are seriously interested my plan would be to stick with the plan that the president AND THE CONGRESS voted on when they UNANIMOUSLY voted to confirm Petraeus. Congress knew he was going to surge and they agreed. But it's tough to make a headline I guess if you just agree.

I think I would at LEAST give it until the agreed upon september to asses.

So do you see no progress in Iraq? None? Please tell me?

I think we will be in Iraq for decades to be honest, much like we are STILL in Germany and S. Korea. Hopefully Iraq will be a self-governing country and we will only be there are the Iraqi's request. But if they ask us to leave, we will leave. I would expect that would not happen (if it does) for at least another 5 years or so.

Vietnam,vietnam,vietnam. Vietnam is nothing like Iraq. Vietnam had another country and the soviets and chinese backing them. The vast majority of deaths that are occuring in Iraq are IRAQIS, not americans. The Iraqi people are dying right now for their country against Al Queda and other thugs trying to tear it apart.

The hundreds of thousands that will be killed if we leave will be Iraqis. The sunni will have to re-arm against the shia and Al Queda will continue to terrorize the people. The shia might be able to control Al Queda, but it will be after most of the sunni are dead. But I doubt it, Hamas has just shown how effective terrorists and killing everone can be.

What countries are you expecting help from? Iran, syria? I've read that we are talking to them but hopefully we are talking about sealing the borders with Iraq. As far as western countries? They have their handsful helping in Afghanistan. No I expect this will be an Iraqi/US deal... To be honest I think that's probably enough if we have the cajones for it. As you can guess, I don't think one party has the cajones to fight in Iraq OR Afghanistan. You can bet that if a democrat wins we'll abandon Iraq and then Al Queda will know that sooner or later we'll abandon Afghanistan as well.

The iraqis and afghanis (as well as the saudis, egyptions, pakistanis) will act accordingly.

dude1394 · 07-27-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

The hundreds of thousands that will be killed if we leave will be Iraqis. The sunni will have to re-arm against the shia and Al Queda will continue to terrorize the people. The shia might be able to control Al Queda, but it will be after most of the sunni are dead. But I doubt it, Hamas has just shown how effective terrorists and killing everone can be..

Here is someone else who's pretty much right on (imo) about Iraq.

Quote:

Jon Voight continued in the interview on Hannity and Colmes:

"There was a bloodbath when we pulled out of Vietnam. Two and a half million people in Cambodia were slaughtered and it was not the highest moment in our history.

And, we are threatening to do it again and we best not do it. My point is that we are in danger- there's a horror awaiting if we pull out. And, to say that we are losing the war and that we are going to pull out on a certain date is only aiding this enemy and giving it more will to struggle."

Janett_Reno · 07-27-2007, 03:16 PM

I hope our next president goes after Bin Laden. I do not think we will abandon Afghanistan.

As far as Sept, i do not have probs staying and getting a report untill Sept and see how things are going. I feel if Iran, Syria, and i have heard Lebanon, Saudia Arabia, and even some Muslim holds of the old Soviet Union that now has broke away. If some of these coutries keeping sending suicide bombers and fighters over, it causes a mess and reeks havic.

They probably are doing this where we will hurry and get out and then the stronger of all these will fight and take over in Iraq. This is going to happen if the Iraqi people do not unite and take up for themself. We have backed the Kurds and the Kurds up north are doing ok and dug in. They are also living ok up there without alot of bad going on. Just some things with Turkey. The Kurds will take care of themself(in the north). These people have fought and killed each other, within Iraq that can and will they ever fight together and take up for each other? They maybe would if the country was broke up into 3 sections.

Those other countries do not want us getting help from other Muslim coutries like Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, Yemen, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Turkey or Kuwait because they feel if they can keep doing bad to us and we get no help, the quicker we will get out. I feel you and i both agree here. You and i know, when we leave this place, it is going to be bad. Now no matter what you think and no we can't turn it around, we have help create and have this bad because we didn't dream it would turn this way.

Most all and probably all Muslim countries do not want us there for an extended time. Maybe the Iraqi people. If some ask, why do they not want us there? I feel because they don't trust us and wonder what we are up to and feel we are up to evil and no good. Most have already decided we are helping and backing Israel in the big picture and they do not want us having bases in Iraq. It is hard for them to honestly think we over threw Sadam to help the Iraqi people and be free.

It is so bad and the corrupt and evil people are infiltrating the police and also they try to knock off gov officials that outsiders feel are to close to us and our influence. I am not saying we are puttiung people in as they are electing who they want. See the whole bad process where it is pure madness going on and hard to see the good and bad guys? It is not a convential war. The middle east is hard to police and keep under control.

If they can close down borders or certain borders, they really need to do this as i feel it will help. Yes i know, then they would fly and drive to other borders and come across but i feel it wouldn't be as bad or many and we could police it better. We need the Iraqi peoples help as the language barrier is bad and we need all the listening and help we can get but with them trusting and liking us.

No, Iran and Syria will not help, but those long list i gave, some of them should and need to. We are there and i have no probs staying longer and securing things and having these people fight for themself. I am not saying forever. The sunni, shia and Kurds need to work together and combat these people comming in. Will they? They lose track and starting killing each other. The ones comming across knows they can go kill some sunni's and excite the shia's and now they go kill the sunni's, same with kurds. It is a revolving door and these three groups must help each other, without influence from Iran, Syria, and the different stans from old Russia.

I have no problem staying and getting reports and the generals putting pressure on the Iraqi people fighting for themself and trying to secure and close borders. It is a hornets nest. Not forever but for months ahead and see if things get better.

You ask do i see things better? Yes some weeks i do and then next weeks i don't. It goes back and forth. I also do not have a closed mind. I do not have a problem with a Baptist, Methodist, Church of Christ, Mormon, Jew, Muslim, Catholic, Dem, Republican, Independent, Green party. I am not one to put everyone and everything in a box and say if you do not believe in a certain thing i have layed out and you look a certain way and act it, then i have no use for you.

I am Baptist and you are probably that also. That doesn't mean we do not like everyone else if they are not either Baptist or either Dem or Repub. We are a nation of many faiths, beliefs, and several parties in the politcal field. Even you are very upset with alot of the Republicans but don't they have a right to speak and do as they seem to try to do as they see it?

It is good and bad that comes from both parties and i know this. Both parties try to cover up when bad happens because it affects them and their party so both try to hide it and sweep it under the rug. No, this is bad on both parties.

I feel it is good to have a multiple party system and not one. I feel it is good we are free and the best country on earth to practice what religion any of us are or if we are no religion. Democrats, Republicans and Independents love our country and all religion beliefs and even non believers love this country. They all fight for this country and they all need a vote and say so. Not just one religious belief or one party belief.

dude1394 · 07-27-2007, 03:45 PM

Nice Post Janett...a few things I believe I disagree with you on here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

I hope our next president goes after Bin Laden. I do not think we will abandon Afghanistan.

This I believe is wishful thinking. If we cannot stay in a country like Iraq that is clearly in our national interests I see no reason that we will stay in Afghanistan. As soon as we run from Iraq, Al Queda will re-focus on afghanistan. What is the national interest for staying there? Pakistan I expect will want to change their stance quite a bit as they would see no reason to stay on the side of the US.

Quote:

They probably are doing this where we will hurry and get out and then the stronger of all these will fight and take over in Iraq. This is going to happen if the Iraqi people do not unite and take up for themself. We have backed the Kurds and the Kurds up north are doing ok and dug in. They are also living ok up there without alot of bad going on. Just some things with Turkey. The Kurds will take care of themself(in the north). These people have fought and killed each other, within Iraq that can and will they ever fight together and take up for each other? They maybe would if the country was broke up into 3 sections.

I'm not exactly sure what point you are making about the kurds, except to say that they won't need our help? If we run from Iraq the kurds will be on their own there for both turkey as well as Al Queda and whatever monstrosity of a government comes of out that to deal with it. We certainly will not have the political will to combat someone to help them. Possibly bomb them, but I don't see that at all either.

If you are comparing Kurds to the rest of the iraqi's, the kurds don't have to live within Baghdad with sunni/shia and Al Queda murdering them. If you look at the civilian casualities for example before and after the bombing of the Grand Mosque it is striking. Al Queada IS a player in this and they have been ruthless, diablolical and smart with their terror. They are willing to kill anyone to get each other to fight and they've been successful at it.

Quote:

Most all and probably all Muslim countries do not want us there for an extended time. Maybe the Iraqi people. If some ask, why do they not want us there? I feel because they don't trust us and wonder what we are up to and feel we are up to evil and no good. Most have already decided we are helping and backing Israel in the big picture and they do not want us having bases in Iraq. It is hard for them to honestly think we over threw Sadam to help the Iraqi people and be free.

I disagree that they don't trust us in this. You are thinking that the stuff going on is due to the general populace of Iraq, it's not, it's al queda and other radicalized nuts. Again the people who stuck their finger in purple (at a great risk to getting it cut off) don't think we are there to stay imo.

Quote:

If they can close down borders or certain borders, they really need to do this as i feel it will help.

This I agree completely with and am at a loss as to why Iraq isn't completely closed off with overflying predators killing anyone sneaking into the country. Sorry, you don't come through a checkpoint, you get blown up.

Janett_Reno · 07-27-2007, 04:34 PM

This is true if we get out of Iraq and then what about Afghanistan? I know they will come to wherever we are next in the middle east and start it up with us again. These are all things that need to be figured out. Bin Laden and some of his top guys need to be got.

I know Al Queda is not going away when you get Bin Laden but it helps and it also shows we will keep on untill we get justice in what he did to us. It shows a very good example what we will do. Alot of this battle has to be fought within. Intelligence and infiltrating Pakistan and Iran and finding Bin Laden and getting info on him and his top men. This is not a convential war and maybe we are as we do not know the ends and outs of the very detailed things of inside those countries and what we are doing.

The best thing is if we are making progress in the Sept report and i totally agree about shutting down borders. If these other allies and muslim countries that we buy gas and oil from and deal with that are close to us, then we need to make it safer for us and the Iraqi people. These people that are excitting the crowds and stirring trouble in the streets need to be dealt with and not with kid gloves. We must someway restore law and order and where we can keep making progress.

It is probably true when the pres of Pakistan sees we are no longer around putting pressure on him, he will probably turn more against us. It is pressure on him now, for him to turn on us. It is a huge complex situation but we need to be able to reach people like Bin Laden, no matter where they hide and it is ways of doing this and for terrorist to know and see this.

I think we have armed the kurds and they are dug in, in the north. They helped us come in and wanted us. Sadam did many bad things to them. They lived ruff and in tough conditions. They do appreciate every inch of land they have and will fight for it and will keep others that threaten them off, if anyway possible. All three groups have a task in front of them.

I have wondered from day one, or when it started getting bad, why don't we attempt to close down certain borders? Go here and look at the conuntry and it is alot of borders and i know it would take major people to do this but i feel this will help us out big time. Especially untill the gov is running right and untill things settle down. Even cars running around and trucks, why not a curfew on them, where they can't drive up and bomb from these vehicles. Let's hope they are working these things out and if we had more help from allies to atleast help us shut down and guard borders would help.

Janett_Reno · 07-27-2007, 04:37 PM

It is alot of border but someway needs to be seen about.

http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/me.htm

purplefrog · 07-27-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

The investigation congress continues as their poll numbers fall closer and closer to single digits.

It takes an amazing amount of political courage to continue their investigations even as their poll numbers drop. Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do, because it important to keep the highest ethical and moral standards. Hats off to the Dems!

Lets shoot for a 0% approval rating!

dude1394 · 07-29-2007, 12:27 PM

Or not it appears.

There is one thing that is obvious however. Testyfying in front of a democrat congress is a bad move. First they are only looking for headlines and in trying to trip someone up and secondly they are too stupid to understand what they are hearing.

I believe if I were a republican I'd take the fifth on any and everything unless I couldn't, it just doesn't pay with these guys.