The OFFICIAL 2010 Dallas Cowboys Dumping Ground

[ribosoma]

I think there is a bit of a difference between being an average to below-average tackler at corner and an adequate tackler at FS. Newman got trucked by Aaron Rodgers trying to deliver a kill shot on the sideline. There aren't many free safeties in the NFL that wouldn't light Rodgers up like a Christmas tree given the same opportunity. Newman could be given the job of free safety, and I can drive with my feet... it doesn't mean I should. With his fragility, asking him to gain ten pounds (which would be necessary) and use his body as a battering-ram would be asking for an IR spot. He was tackled by a running back after an interception and had to sit out several plays.

I do like his ability to cover, but there are few instances where a CB moves to FS in the NFL. If it is felt that their natural weight is in the 210 pound range and they are heavy hitters, it is feasible. For example, Malcolm Jenkins with the Saints was a converted corner, but he was at 204 at Ohio State, and had a 4.5 40 time. He had instincts and liked to hit, so he was converted to FS.

This is what real free safeties look like. I know that Cowboy fans haven't seen one in a while, but here are a few clips to give you an idea of what is required for the position. Do you think Terence Newman can do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqFa-RDDi6U

Or this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwyHu...eature=related


Or this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8BEd...eature=related

Poor Percy Harvin. Those are free safeties. And, outside of the hit against an unsuspecting Roddy White last season, I can't think of many times T-New has knocked the crap out of a wideout, preventing him from making a catch. He can, however, cover wideouts and use his speed. That's what corners do.

I have no idea what you are basing your view that Newman can come up and hit receivers or running backs on, to be completely honest. The same arguments were made for Anthony Henry, but the conversion from CB to FS isn't simply a decision to move a guy over a few feet on the football field. And those tackles (or attempted tackles) he made while "trying to hurt people"... he will be asked to do that at least 15 times per game at safety because that's what the position demands of you. And he is made of glass, as his career has shown. He may play though most of his injuries, but having a FS who shies away from contact because he's dinged up will get you beat every Sunday.

[Kirobaito]

Champ Bailey wants to move to FS, apparently, in order to prolong his career. I think it was FS, at least, and not SS.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

I think there is a bit of a difference between being an average to below-average tackler at corner and an adequate tackler at FS. Newman got trucked by Aaron Rodgers trying to deliver a kill shot on the sideline. There aren't many free safeties in the NFL that wouldn't light Rodgers up like a Christmas tree given the same opportunity. Newman could be given the job of free safety, and I can drive with my feet... it doesn't mean I should. With his fragility, asking him to gain ten pounds (which would be necessary) and use his body as a battering-ram would be asking for an IR spot. He was tackled by a running back after an interception and had to sit out several plays.

I do like his ability to cover, but there are few instances where a CB moves to FS in the NFL. If it is felt that their natural weight is in the 210 pound range and they are heavy hitters, it is feasible. For example, Malcolm Jenkins with the Saints was a converted corner, but he was at 204 at Ohio State, and had a 4.5 40 time. He had instincts and liked to hit, so he was converted to FS.

This is what real free safeties look like. I know that Cowboy fans haven't seen one in a while, but here are a few clips to give you an idea of what is required for the position. Do you think Terence Newman can do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqFa-RDDi6U

Or this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwyHu...eature=related


Or this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8BEd...eature=related

Poor Percy Harvin. Those are free safeties. And, outside of the hit against an unsuspecting Roddy White last season, I can't think of many times T-New has knocked the crap out of a wideout, preventing him from making a catch. He can, however, cover wideouts and use his speed. That's what corners do.

I have no idea what you are basing your view that Newman can come up and hit receivers or running backs on, to be completely honest. The same arguments were made for Anthony Henry, but the conversion from CB to FS isn't simply a decision to move a guy over a few feet on the football field. And those tackles (or attempted tackles) he made while "trying to hurt people"... he will be asked to do that at least 15 times per game at safety because that's what the position demands of you. And he is made of glass, as his career has shown. He may play though most of his injuries, but having a FS who shies away from contact because he's dinged up will get you beat every Sunday.

If you want to single out guys on one or two plays that are in your memory don't just cherry pick on Newman. Hell, Roy Williams got decleated several times when not expecting the oncoming guy to put his shoulder down. It happens.

My point is that Newman, over the course of a 16-game season, is no longer a below average tackler by any means. If he could stay healthy he absolutely could play the position. That was one of the reasons I listed above regarding why you don't do this, but there is no doubt in my mind that Newman could hit as necessary and certainly cover as necessary.

I think he certainly doesn't give you a full 16 in that role, (hell, he struggles to give you 16 as a CB), but that wasn't my point. Don't let the 2-3 embarrassing plays define Newman. All guys have those occasionally. Watch his entire body of work and if you do I have a hard time seeing him labeled as anything other than an above average tackling CB (which to me makes him an average to slightly below average tackling FS with plus plus coverage abilities - the opposite of what we have been rolling out there, which is definitely working great, right?).

Again, his value at CB and injury risks are why you wouldn't do it - not because he couldn't tackle as needed.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by Kirobaito

Champ Bailey wants to move to FS, apparently, in order to prolong his career. I think it was FS, at least, and not SS.

Link?

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

If you want to single out guys on one or two plays that are in your memory don't just cherry pick on Newman. Hell, Roy Williams got decleated several times when not expecting the oncoming guy to put his shoulder down. It happens.

My point is that Newman, over the course of a 16-game season, is no longer a below average tackler by any means. If he could stay healthy he absolutely could play the position. That was one of the reasons I listed above regarding why you don't do this, but there is no doubt in my mind that Newman could hit as necessary and certainly cover as necessary.

I think he certainly doesn't give you a full 16 in that role, (hell, he struggles to give you 16 as a CB), but that wasn't my point. Don't let the 2-3 embarrassing plays define Newman. All guys have those occasionally. Watch his entire body of work and if you do I have a hard time seeing him labeled as anything other than an above average tackling CB (which to me makes him an average to slightly below average tackling FS with plus plus coverage abilities - the opposite of what we have been rolling out there, which is definitely working great, right?).

Again, his value at CB and injury risks are why you wouldn't do it - not because he couldn't tackle as needed.

When I think of above-average tacklers at the CB position, I think of Champ Bailey, Antoine Winfield, Charles Woodson, Sheldon Brown, Vontae Davis, Brandon Flowers... those are above-average tacklers. Newman is not even close to being as physical as any of those guys. You rarely, if ever, see him shoot inside of a block from a pulling lineman and plant a running back in the backfield, but all of those guys do it regularly. Maybe we should define what "above-average" means. If Newman is an above-average tackler, then the corners above are God-like at tackling. I'm not saying I would prefer any of them over Newman at corner, but he is an average tackler, at best. His coverage ability is above-average and that's why he is a very good corner, although the Cowboys do need to groom someone to replace him due to his age.

This is what I would define as above-average:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WasjkXTNTfo

I'm not cherry-picking Newman as a scapegoat. I've always like him as a player, but you have to be physical and a very good tackler to play free safety, and your body and frame have to be able to withstand the position. Saying that Newman could play FS, but not for 16 games because he could get hurt kind of negates the whole point of thinking he would be a good fit there. Those are caveats that can't be overlooked, in my opinion.

Patrick Peterson of LSU would make an elite free safety, in my opinion, because of his size, instincts, frame, and ball skills. If the Cowboys were to land him in the draft, I would hope that they would consider moving him there because I think he would be dominant. I'm not sure you want to pay a safety the kind of money that Peterson will get, but he is, quite possibly, the best player in the draft, so I certainly wouldn't complain about it.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

When I think of above-average tacklers at the CB position, I think of Champ Bailey, Antoine Winfield, Charles Woodson, Sheldon Brown, Vontae Davis, Brandon Flowers... those are above-average tacklers. Newman is not even close to being as physical as any of those guys. You rarely, if ever, see him shoot inside of a block from a pulling lineman and plant a running back in the backfield, but all of those guys do it regularly. Maybe we should define what "above-average" means. If Newman is an above-average tackler, then the corners above are God-like at tackling. I'm not saying I would prefer any of them over Newman at corner, but he is an average tackler, at best. His coverage ability is above-average and that's why he is a very good corner, although the Cowboys do need to groom someone to replace him due to his age.

This is what I would define as above-average:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WasjkXTNTfo

I'm not cherry-picking Newman as a scapegoat. I've always like him as a player, but you have to be physical and a very good tackler to play free safety, and your body and frame have to be able to withstand the position. Saying that Newman could play FS, but not for 16 games because he could get hurt kind of negates the whole point of thinking he would be a good fit there. Those are caveats that can't be overlooked, in my opinion.

Patrick Peterson of LSU would make an elite free safety, in my opinion, because of his size, instincts, frame, and ball skills. If the Cowboys were to land him in the draft, I would hope that they would consider moving him there because I think he would be dominant. I'm not sure you want to pay a safety the kind of money that Peterson will get, but he is, quite possibly, the best player in the draft, so I certainly wouldn't complain about it.

Well, you listed 6 CBs that you consider better tacklers than Newman and there are 64 starters in the league. I said he was above average, not elite, so I am not sure why you have the problem you have with my feelings there. There is a level between GODLY and above average you know.

That said, whatever - it doesn't matter. If you are right in your belief that Newman being unable to play all 16 games at FS prevents him from being able to do it you might want to ask him to retire as he can't do that at CB either. You might also want to talk to Sanders/Polamalu.

For the record, Peterson at CB or FS has me giddy. Get that man on this team.

[Mav Addict]

If we could get Pat Peterson, I would slap my mother on Mothers Day!

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Link?

http://www.mkrob.com/broncos-cb-cham...y-free-safety/

That was from June. I read some brief mention of it in something more recently.

[ribosoma]

I would love to see them draft Peterson as a safety, and sign Champ Bailey, Asomugha, or Ike Taylor at corner if they wind up cutting Newman (which is a distinct possibility). Then sign a good guard like Carl Nicks, Harvey Dahl or Davin Joseph and let Kosier go somewhere else, along with cutting Big Len. Either draft Wisniewski in the second as your center, or do everything you can to get Ryan Kalil away from the Panthers and slide Gurode over to the other guard position. Sign Doug Free now. Pick up at least one RT in the mid rounds. Cut Marion Barber and sign Michael Bush or Mike Tolbert. Cut Roy Williams and sign Lance Moore, Laurent Robinson, Jacoby Jones, Danny Amendola, or Legedu Naanee as your third wideout. There are many permutations that could follow each of those moves, but I definitely think a complete overhaul of the offensive line is a must.

[Mav Addict]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

I would love to see them draft Peterson as a safety, and sign Champ Bailey, Asomugha, or Ike Taylor at corner if they wind up cutting Newman (which is a distinct possibility). Then sign a good guard like Carl Nicks, Harvey Dahl or Davin Joseph and let Kosier go somewhere else, along with cutting Big Len. Either draft Wisniewski in the second as your center, or do everything you can to get Ryan Kalil away from the Panthers and slide Gurode over to the other guard position. Sign Doug Free now. Pick up at least one RT in the mid rounds. Cut Marion Barber and sign Michael Bush or Mike Tolbert. Cut Roy Williams and sign Lance Moore, Laurent Robinson, Jacoby Jones, Danny Amendola, or Legedu Naanee as your third wideout. There are many permutations that could follow each of those moves, but I definitely think a complete overhaul of the offensive line is a must.

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by Mav Addict

[mkat]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

I would love to see them draft Peterson as a safety, and sign Champ Bailey, Asomugha, or Ike Taylor at corner if they wind up cutting Newman (which is a distinct possibility). Then sign a good guard like Carl Nicks, Harvey Dahl or Davin Joseph and let Kosier go somewhere else, along with cutting Big Len. Either draft Wisniewski in the second as your center, or do everything you can to get Ryan Kalil away from the Panthers and slide Gurode over to the other guard position. Sign Doug Free now. Pick up at least one RT in the mid rounds. Cut Marion Barber and sign Michael Bush or Mike Tolbert. Cut Roy Williams and sign Lance Moore, Laurent Robinson, Jacoby Jones, Danny Amendola, or Legedu Naanee as your third wideout. There are many permutations that could follow each of those moves, but I definitely think a complete overhaul of the offensive line is a must.

huge pipe dream. it'd be amazing if any one of those things happened.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by mkat

huge pipe dream. it'd be amazing if any one of those things happened.

No doubt... Huge.

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by mkat

huge pipe dream. it'd be amazing if any one of those things happened.

Get your pipe ready.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

Get your pipe ready.

So you actually "expect" these things to happen but think Newman at FS is crazy? OK.

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

So you actually "expect" these things to happen but think Newman at FS is crazy? OK.

Yes, I know that Newman at FS is crazy. Point-by-point, please breakdown all of the players I mentioned and tell me why every single one of them aren't aren't possibilities. Those are the things I would do. I expect that at least one of them is done, which was in reference to the "pipe-dream" comment.

Originally Posted by mkat

huge pipe dream. it'd be amazing if any one of those things happened.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

Yes, I know that Newman at FS is crazy. Point-by-point, please breakdown all of the players I mentioned and tell me why every single one of them aren't aren't possibilities. Those are the things I would do. I expect that at least one of them is done, which was in reference to the "pipe-dream" comment.

His huge pipe dream comment was about it all taking place. Feel free to ask him as much. His latter sentence was just that, him being amazed if any one of them took place, (i.e. MUCH LESS all of them happening). To not think any ONE thing could happen would not be realistic - sure one of them could happen (despite his amazed comment - I feel he would think that to be the case too).

Bottom line, Newman at FS is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more likely to happen than every single one of your suggestions coming to fruition, of course I think you know that too.

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

His huge pipe dream comment was about it all taking place. Feel free to ask him as much. His latter sentence was just that, him being amazed if any one of them took place, (i.e. MUCH LESS all of them happening). To not think any ONE thing could happen would not be realistic - sure one of them could happen (despite his amazed comment - I feel he would think that to be the case too).

Bottom line, Newman at FS is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more likely to happen than every single one of your suggestions coming to fruition, of course I think you know that too.

I do, that's why I never said, at any point, that I thought that all of those moves would happen. Those are the moves I would like to happen. But I would think that more than one of them happening is more likely than Terence Newman playing FS.

Also, please point out where I said I "expect" those moves to happen. Attempting to bolster your contention that Newman can play FS by arguing against something I never stated is a good example of a strawman, in my opinion (amongst a few other logical fallacies).

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

I do, that's why I never said, at any point, that I thought that all of those moves would happen. Those are the moves I would like to happen. But I would think that more than one of them happening is more likely than Terence Newman playing FS.

Also, please point out where I said I "expect" those moves to happen. Attempting to bolster your contention that Newman can play FS by arguing against something I never stated is a good example of a strawman, in my opinion (amongst a few other logical fallacies).

You truly aren't following this are you? Let me see if I can't break it down for you.

First, you said: "I would love to see them draft Peterson as a safety, and sign Champ Bailey, Asomugha, or Ike Taylor at corner if they wind up cutting Newman (which is a distinct possibility). Then sign a good guard like Carl Nicks, Harvey Dahl or Davin Joseph and let Kosier go somewhere else, along with cutting Big Len. Either draft Wisniewski in the second as your center, or do everything you can to get Ryan Kalil away from the Panthers and slide Gurode over to the other guard position. Sign Doug Free now. Pick up at least one RT in the mid rounds. Cut Marion Barber and sign Michael Bush or Mike Tolbert. Cut Roy Williams and sign Lance Moore, Laurent Robinson, Jacoby Jones, Danny Amendola, or Legedu Naanee as your third wideout. There are many permutations that could follow each of those moves, but I definitely think a complete overhaul of the offensive line is a must."

MKat said: "huge pipe dream. it'd be amazing if any one of those things happened." Which, to me, clearly is saying all of the above is a huge pipe dream and it would be amazing if even one of those things happened, MUCH LESS all of them.

You then said: "Get your pipe ready." Which, to me, clearly suggests that the huge pipe dream is going to take place (again, which is ALL of your things).

I then went on to contend just that, which is MKat was suggesting all items taking place was the pipe dream.

You then went on to say: "I do, that's why I never said, at any point, that I thought that all of those moves would happen."

Please take a moment and let all of that sink in. So, what are the options? 1, you misunderstood MKat's post to not mean that all of your items was the pipe dream. 2, you lied with your most recent post. Pick.

Regarding straw man type stuff with regards to Newman, like I said, you listed 6 damn guys that you thought were better tacklers. There are 64 starting CBs in the league. I contend that Newman is above average tackling from the CB position and therefore would be average to slightly below average tackling in the FS position while being elite in coverage at the FS position. There is no straw in that argument. Worst case, you disagree and we go on about our business.

You are not right Ribo... You simply have an opinion on the matter. My opinion is formed from watching a great deal of football (especially Cowboys football) and seeing the last 2 years of Newman vs. the early part of his career (and I assume your opinion is based on the same). I think he most certainly could do it and I think where he hurts you with tackling he would more than make up for with coverage. Again, just my opinion, but it isn't wrong because you don't associate Newman with Champ Fing Bailey. Period.

[mkat]

to clear up a few things, a) i meant the whole thing was a pipe dream, not just one of the things, and b) i don't doubt TNew could play the FS position, but I do wonder if he has the weight to sustain the physicality of the position. I think he'd be a good option at FS/SS in a nickel package against teams who use spread formations frequently, though.

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

You truly aren't following this are you? Let me see if I can't break it down for you.

First, you said: "I would love to see them draft Peterson as a safety, and sign Champ Bailey, Asomugha, or Ike Taylor at corner if they wind up cutting Newman (which is a distinct possibility). Then sign a good guard like Carl Nicks, Harvey Dahl or Davin Joseph and let Kosier go somewhere else, along with cutting Big Len. Either draft Wisniewski in the second as your center, or do everything you can to get Ryan Kalil away from the Panthers and slide Gurode over to the other guard position. Sign Doug Free now. Pick up at least one RT in the mid rounds. Cut Marion Barber and sign Michael Bush or Mike Tolbert. Cut Roy Williams and sign Lance Moore, Laurent Robinson, Jacoby Jones, Danny Amendola, or Legedu Naanee as your third wideout. There are many permutations that could follow each of those moves, but I definitely think a complete overhaul of the offensive line is a must."

MKat said: "huge pipe dream. it'd be amazing if any one of those things happened." Which, to me, clearly is saying all of the above is a huge pipe dream and it would be amazing if even one of those things happened, MUCH LESS all of them.

You then said: "Get your pipe ready." Which, to me, clearly suggests that the huge pipe dream is going to take place (again, which is ALL of your things).

I then went on to contend just that, which is MKat was suggesting all items taking place was the pipe dream.

You then went on to say: "I do, that's why I never said, at any point, that I thought that all of those moves would happen."

Please take a moment and let all of that sink in. So, what are the options? 1, you misunderstood MKat's post to not mean that all of your items was the pipe dream. 2, you lied with your most recent post. Pick.

Regarding straw man type stuff with regards to Newman, like I said, you listed 6 damn guys that you thought were better tacklers. There are 64 starting CBs in the league. I contend that Newman is above average tackling from the CB position and therefore would be average to slightly below average tackling in the FS position while being elite in coverage at the FS position. There is no straw in that argument. Worst case, you disagree and we go on about our business.

You are not right Ribo... You simply have an opinion on the matter. My opinion is formed from watching a great deal of football (especially Cowboys football) and seeing the last 2 years of Newman vs. the early part of his career (and I assume your opinion is based on the same). I think he most certainly could do it and I think where he hurts you with tackling he would more than make up for with coverage. Again, just my opinion, but it isn't wrong because you don't associate Newman with Champ Fing Bailey. Period.

When the pipe dream comment was made, it was added to by the statement that it would be amazing if any of those things happened. It really won't be amazing at all, because several of those things are going to happen. There will be players cut, players signed via free agency, and I would bet some of those players I listed will wind up on the Cowboys.

If you needed clarification, I would've been happy to give it to you.

As long as Newman is on the Cowboys roster, he needs to be put in a position where his skill set can be best utilized. Moving him out of a position where he has already experienced injuries related to contact into a position where the type of contact will be much more violent in nature doesn't make any sense to me.

To be honest with you, I think Newman should be cut, but only if there is a more viable option brought in. Even his coverage abilities, which are indeed his strong-point, have started to slip a bit considering how much he is being paid. He consistently runs himself out of plays with over-pursuit, he tackles up high (not a quality you ever want to see out of any defensive back, but definitely not a safety), and he takes poor angles in space. The horribly-played attempt to bat the ball down on a simple comeback route to Hakeem Nicks that wound up going for a touchdown, the missed-tackle on Devin Hester in the Bears game that went for 37 yards, and the bad judgment on the go route by Robert Meachem in the Saints game all directly led to losses last season. I know you love him, but there are many better corners in the game and a few of them are available via free agency. The three I listed are all more complete players than Newman right now.

I imagine that you will be tempted to suggest that I see Newman as a scapegoat for this past season's woes, but I don't. I think that Mike Jenkins showed some of the worst technique I have seen in my life last season. The safeties are a complete joke. The interior line doesn't collapse the pocket enough to alter sight lines. The linebackers are terrible in coverage. And that's just the defense. The offensive line is old and ineffective in both the run and pass, resulting in a truncated playbook which often gets Red Ball criticized, but you can't have a deep passing attack when you only have two seconds to get rid of the ball. Roy turned out to be a #2 option, at best. And the field goal kicker is better at tackling than making field goals.

Like I said before, I can list 20 corners who I think are better tacklers than Newman if you'd like, but it's not like that will make any difference to you, so we just disagree. And that's okay with me. I watched the same things you did this past season, I just saw something completely different.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814c7e1d

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHIL7z20djs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSw8fXYu3wI

Versus the Packers, Week 9. An attempt(?) at a tackle on Brandon Jackson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83W4odz9H-g

There were many other examples of Newman's over-pursuit and upright tackling style throughout the year that I saw, but the above videos were the only ones I could find in a quick search.

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by mkat

to clear up a few things, a) i meant the whole thing was a pipe dream, not just one of the things, and b) i don't doubt TNew could play the FS position, but I do wonder if he has the weight to sustain the physicality of the position. I think he'd be a good option at FS/SS in a nickel package against teams who use spread formations frequently, though.

Thanks for the clarification, man. I agree with your thinking on using him as a safety in nickel packages. That would probably mean that they would have added a few pieces to their secondary, which I am all in favor of.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

When the pipe dream comment was made, it was added to by the statement that it would be amazing if any of those things happened. It really won't be amazing at all, because several of those things are going to happen. There will be players cut, players signed via free agency, and I would bet some of those players I listed will wind up on the Cowboys.

That doesn't change the fact that his pipe dream comment (as explained even by MKat) was about ALL of your items happening and you said get the pipe ready. Bottom line, you misunderstood the intent of his sentence due to another sentence following it, and that is completely fine. Just pointing it out after you went so far as to say you never suggested all things would happen and, really, you did, you just didn't know you were.

If you needed clarification, I would've been happy to give it to you.

As long as Newman is on the Cowboys roster, he needs to be put in a position where his skill set can be best utilized. Moving him out of a position where he has already experienced injuries related to contact into a position where the type of contact will be much more violent in nature doesn't make any sense to me.

First of all, all of his injuries have not been contact related. He is just injury prone in general. Sure, that could make your case for you that he shouldn't be a FS, but my contention is that he isn't a top tier CB anymore in coverage and this would make him elite in coverage for his new position. Then if you bring someone else in at CB that is an upgrade (major or otherwise) regarding coverage, you have significantly upgraded that part of your secondary. Sure, there is the likelihood that he will get you burned if a RB busts through the front 7 and he can't make the tackle. Sure, there is the likelihood that he will be out for x games during the year (just as you have the same likelihood with injury prone guys like Sanders/Polamalu - and yes I know how reckless they play). But for y games you will have a helluva upgraded secondary and I think average tackling with elite coverage at the FS position is a helluva lot better than average tackling with horrible coverage (see Ball), and I am being kind there. Bottom line, we likely won't be replacing all 4 guys in the secondary. So to maximize the improvement, I see this as a definite upgrade. I think that may be getting lost on you when you consider Newman as our FS - Ball was there last year.

To be honest with you, I think Newman should be cut, but only if there is a more viable option brought in. Even his coverage abilities, which are indeed his strong-point, have started to slip a bit considering how much he is being paid. He consistently runs himself out of plays with over-pursuit, he tackles up high (not a quality you ever want to see out of any defensive back, but definitely not a safety), and he takes poor angles in space. The horribly-played attempt to bat the ball down on a simple comeback route to Hakeem Nicks that wound up going for a touchdown, the missed-tackle on Devin Hester in the Bears game that went for 37 yards, and the bad judgment on the go route by Robert Meachem in the Saints game all directly led to losses last season. I know you love him, but there are many better corners in the game and a few of them are available via free agency. The three I listed are all more complete players than Newman right now.

If you are talking about strictly CB, maybe he should. That said, his coverage skills would be much, much better at FS and far superior to what we saw last year from that position. I personally don't agree that he frequently takes poor angles in space, but he definitely has his flaws.

I imagine that you will be tempted to suggest that I see Newman as a scapegoat for this past season's woes, but I don't. I think that Mike Jenkins showed some of the worst technique I have seen in my life last season. The safeties are a complete joke. The interior line doesn't collapse the pocket enough to alter sight lines. The linebackers are terrible in coverage. And that's just the defense. The offensive line is old and ineffective in both the run and pass, resulting in a truncated playbook which often gets Red Ball criticized, but you can't have a deep passing attack when you only have two seconds to get rid of the ball. Roy turned out to be a #2 option, at best. And the field goal kicker is better at tackling than making field goals.

There is a lot of truth to what you say here. We have some major holes to fill. I think you are a little hard on them due to your frustrations with the season (we aren't that bad and that void of talent - this is overall a group good enough for the playoffs) but we absolutely need to upgrade the secondary and offensive line.

Like I said before, I can list 20 corners who I think are better tacklers than Newman if you'd like, but it's not like that will make any difference to you, so we just disagree. And that's okay with me. I watched the same things you did this past season, I just saw something completely different.

Again, even with 20, which would be a stretch in my humble opinion, you still haven't proven that he isn't above average. If there are 64 guys and 20 guys are better he would still be the 21st best tackler in the NFL. Average would be 31. Is 21 above 31?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814c7e1d

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHIL7z20djs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSw8fXYu3wI

Versus the Packers, Week 9. An attempt(?) at a tackle on Brandon Jackson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83W4odz9H-g

It is ALWAYS much, much easier to find mistakes by cornerbacks than it is to find good technique where big plays were avoided. If you make one mistake per game and 60 plays were run you were pretty damn good. Of course that one mistake can cost you the game, and I understand that. That said, he would still be elite in coverage at FS and, in my opinion, would still be average to slightly below average tackling from that spot. Considering Ball's abilities, I could most certainly live with that upgrade.

There were many other examples of Newman's over-pursuit and upright tackling style throughout the year that I saw, but the above videos were the only ones I could find in a quick search.

See my comments above.

[Underdog]

Cowboys going after Rob Ryan (Rex's twin brother / The Dude lookalike) for defensive coordinator?

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Cowboys going after Rob Ryan (Rex's twin brother / The Dude lookalike) for defensive coordinator?

My only question is, are foot fetishes genetic?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

My only question is, are foot fetishes genetic?

I hope so - maybe he can help our special teams coach figure out how to fix Buehler...

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I hope so - maybe he can help our special teams coach figure out how to fix Buehler...

touche'

[chumdawg]

If Rob is anything like Rex, we're gonna like it. This Jets defense is balls-out today.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I hope so - maybe he can help our special teams coach figure out how to fix Buehler...

I think it could be as simple as "if you miss this kick, I am locking your naked feet in a room with my brother for 30 minutes."

[dirno2000]

Came across this nugget in a blog post about NFL coaches breaking out of the traditional way of thinking to play the percentages:

The third bit of evidence is no doubt the strongest. After Ken Kovash and I wrote that paper on football, the Dallas Cowboys hired him! (Ken follows in the footsteps of another of my former students, Mike Zarren, who is the stats guy for the Celtics.) I’m happy to report that the Cowboys ratio of passes to runs jumped far more than the league average, so maybe they are even listening to him.


Using advanced stats in football is a relatively new phenomenon and seems to require more judgement than basketball and baseball. Still, it's encouraging to see the organization on the forefront of the movement.


here's the link if anyone's interested: http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.co...=Google+Reader

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Came across this nugget in a blog post about NFL coaches breaking out of the traditional way of thinking to play the percentages:

The third bit of evidence is no doubt the strongest. After Ken Kovash and I wrote that paper on football, the Dallas Cowboys hired him! (Ken follows in the footsteps of another of my former students, Mike Zarren, who is the stats guy for the Celtics.) I’m happy to report that the Cowboys ratio of passes to runs jumped far more than the league average, so maybe they are even listening to him.


Using advanced stats in football is a relatively new phenomenon and seems to require more judgement than basketball and baseball. Still, it's encouraging to see the organization on the forefront of the movement.


here's the link if anyone's interested: http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.co...=Google+Reader

Don't show this to Bob Sturm.

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Don't show this to Bob Sturm.

Why?

[mkat]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Why?

yes, why?

[chumdawg]

Not Cowboys-related, but there is no thread for NFL talk. Just wanted to say...the SMU kid Sanders is making his name known in the AFC title game!

Also, that I'm glad the Bears lost. I just realized that I have absolutely zero love for any of the Chicago teams. They are so dead to me. Plus, I hate Jay Cutler.

Very disappointed to see the Steelers up 17-0 here. I'm a big fan of what the Jets have done. Also, I would hate to see the Steelers win a Lombardi trophy in our building. That would add injury to insult.

[Underdog]

The Steelers winning a Super Bowl in Dallas would certainly be adding insult to injury...

Go Packers!!!



(thank god Favre left Green Bay or I'd be wishing for an earthquake in Irving...)

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

(thank god Favre left Green Bay or I'd be wishing for an earthquake in Irving...)

Then you'd just piss off Irvingers whilst still watching hell unfold in ARLINGTON!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Then you'd just piss off Irvingers whilst still watching hell unfold in ARLINGTON!

Oh, yeah...

Well, we'd get them too!

[chumdawg]

Alright, what are you draft gurus thinking the Cowboys should do? I'm hearing a lot of talk about Tyron Smith at #9, which I suppose would be nice. I'm starting to favor a trade down, though, myself. Would be nice to end up with both a top-tier tackle and a top-tier DL prospect. I'm not convinced there is going to be a lot of difference between, say, a Tyron Smith and a Gabe Carimi, or a Cam Jordan and a JJ Watt.

And then there are times when I think that taking either one of the two WR's, Green and Jones, or Cam Newton might not be such a bad thing, assuming one of those players is still on the board at 9. Sounds like those are guys who could be serious difference makers down the line.

Whether the person will be in the Cowboys' range or not, do you guys have any pet cats? I'm getting intrigued by this Von Miller kid. I'm also thinking that Marcus Cannon may be a bit underrated at this point. That fat boy looks just right as a future Cowboys guard.

[dalmations202]

See if any of the top 6 guys fall to #9 (lets say top 8 minus the QB's). If so, draft him.

If the top 6 don't drop and you can, trade down 6-12 spots and pick up another 2 or 3.

Draft best available -- DL and OL for the top 2 rounds. (2 or 3 picks)

Then draft ILB or Safety in 3 and 4.

Cannon looks good in the second. I would prefer a DL in 1st, but one exception is that I like the Ingram kid and think I'd move Barber if you could get him. In fact, I might move all three if the deal was good enough, and Ingram ends up like I think he will (Big IF).

Bruce Matthews younger kid in 4-5 might be a good pickup as well.

5-7 rounds are a crap shoot anyway, so draft best available for potential.

[dirno2000]

I've thought since the end of the season that our first priority should be shoring up the O-Line. If we can get a young tackle to play opposite Free we're set at a crucial position for the next 4 or 5 years. Since then I’ve been reading and listening to quite a bit of draft coverage and realized how D-line heavy this class is. At this point I’d be happy with anybody that can play in the box.

As far as pet cats I'm not partial to any of the tackles. I'll leave that to the scouts. I don't like Solder but I'm indifferent when it comes to Smith, Carmini and Castanzo. Like I said I'll leave that to the people who have watched the tape. Smith is the most intriguing prospect though.

I love Darius and Fairly but don't think either will be available at 9. I'd take Peterson there but not Prince.

I'm not sure why you'd even consider a wideout unless you have questions about Dez's off the field issues. On the field he's a certified beast and Miles is Miles. I'd call that a position of strength.

if you draft Cam you may as well trade Romo because that would be cutting his legs out from under him.