Dirk and Damp getting in sync - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dude1394 · 10-09-2004, 02:24 PM

Mavericks Notes
Dampier, Dirk in sync
By Dwain Price
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

DALLAS - It took just four days for the Mavericks' new center, Erick Dampier, to get in sync with the team's All-Star, Dirk Nowitzki.

Dampier's appearance allows Nowitzki to play his natural position, power forward, where he has a huge advantage over defenders. Nowitzki's skills as a perimeter shooter will open up the middle for Dampier.

"He and Dirk, for some reason, have bonded and are really playing well together, feeding off each other," coach Don Nelson said. "He's getting Dirk open, and Dirk's given him some real nice feeds down around the basket. It looks like this thing is going to work real well."

Dampier, who signed a free-agent contract with the Mavericks this summer after playing seven seasons with Golden State, couldn't be happier.

"Dirk is a shooter, so they've got to go out on the floor and guard him, which leaves the inside open for me to do my work," Dampier said. "I think we're a pretty good combination."

The Mavs are happy to have a bona fide big man they can depend on.

"It's a benefit for us to get a chance to play with a center with his type of size and status in the league, and we're just making the most of the situation," forward Michael Finley said. "We're getting to know him, what he likes and what he doesn't like."

What the 6-foot-11, 276-pound Dampier doesn't like is people bringing up the Warriors and his averages of 12.3 points and 12 rebounds per game last season. He said he has turned the page to a new chapter in his basketball life.

"Those were last year's numbers," Dampier said. "I look to do more this year. I'm on a different team now with different opportunities for me to try to get a little bit more touches in the post."

Nelson said Dampier had his best practice Friday, especially at the offensive end of the court.

"He has great, great hands around the basket," point guard Jason Terry said. "The guy catches everything.

"What I've seen that works best is him and Dirk working together. Dirk is hitting him high and hitting him low, and he's catching and he's finishing. That's something that's big for us."

Terry likes stability

The one thing that gnawed at Jason Terry during his five seasons with the Atlanta Hawks was the franchise's instability, particularly its coaching staff.

That's why he was quick to say he "liked the coaching" when he was asked what was the best thing about the off-season trade that sent him from the Hawks to the Mavs and coach Don Nelson.

"I had three different coaches in five years [with the Hawks]," Terry said. "Now I come in and get Nellie, and right away he's emphasizing things that I need to be retaught."

The Hawks never qualified for the playoffs while Terry played for them. He said he won't have that problem this season.

"Dallas, I know this, we're going to the playoffs for sure," Terry said. "There's no other place I'd rather be right now."

Mbenga plays catchup

Late in Friday's morning practice session, Don Nelson chastised rookie DJ Mbenga for being out of position, then yanked him off the court in favor of Shawn Bradley.

Nelson then showed the 7-footer where he was supposed to be and said if Mbenga didn't learn the plays, "I'm not going to play you."

For Mbenga, learning the Mavs' playbook has been a major challenge.

"The plays are more difficult here," Mbenga said. "In Belgium, we used seven plays for the whole season. Here, we use ... I don't know how many.

"So I'm just trying to get used to my plays, and how to read my plays. Sometimes I forget the plays, but we've got time."

sike · 10-09-2004, 02:38 PM

Quote:

I'm on a different team now with different opportunities for me to try to get a little bit more touches in the post."

guhhhh? if anything I would think he needs to be less worried about his offensive game on the Mavs, not more touches.

sike · 10-09-2004, 02:41 PM

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"He has great, great hands around the basket," point guard Jason Terry said. "The guy catches everything.

Rhetoric or reality, time will tell.

grndmstr_c · 10-09-2004, 02:47 PM

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guhhhh? if anything I would think he needs to be less worried about his offensive game on the Mavs, not more touches.

Hey, if he can do good stuff with it in his hands he absolutely should get consistent touches in the half-court set.

sike · 10-09-2004, 02:50 PM

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Hey, if he can do good stuff with it in his hands he absolutely should get consistent touches in the half-court set.

yeah, but what does that have to do with my comment?

FilthyFinMavs · 10-09-2004, 03:06 PM

"He has great, great hands around the basket," point guard Jason Terry said. "The guy catches everything.

What happened to everyone that was preaching Damp had bad hands?

sike · 10-09-2004, 03:17 PM

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What happened to everyone that was preaching Damp had bad hands?

I think "everyone" would be wise to wait and see.

grndmstr_c · 10-09-2004, 03:19 PM

Sike, you're suggesting he shouldn't be thinking about his touches. Look back at his stats for GS. He scored a very efficient 12 ppg (more efficient than anybody currently on the team not named Dirk if I remember correctly) but a decent portion of that came from his work on the boards, not from guys passing it to him. I'm saying that if giving him touches in the post is going to be good for the half-court attack, then he should get the touches, he should get more than he got last year, and I don't have a problem with him thinking so, provided he: 1) converts/makes good decisions when he gets the ball, and 2) doesn't let his rebounding and defense slip. I've seen/heard nothing to suggest that either of these has been a problem and until that changes I just don't see what the big deal is. I mean, lets face it, one of the reasons we all want a good center is so that we will have a low-post presence on offense. What kind of impact can he be expected to make if nobody passes the ball to him?

FilthyFinMavs · 10-09-2004, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike

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What happened to everyone that was preaching Damp had bad hands?

I think "everyone" would be wise to wait and see.

Maybe so, but there were people on this board who stated it as fact that he had bad hands. Granted, it's just training camp these guys are playing I don't think JT would sit there and lie and say Damp has good hands when he doesn't.

vinnieponte · 10-09-2004, 03:38 PM

thank god, we finally have a center that actually meshs with dirk, sorry bradley lovers. It's been too long coming for dirk to have his chance without having to play everyone elses role. I can't wait till next week!

sike · 10-09-2004, 03:40 PM

I have no problem with Damp getting the ball with regularity, but as you noted much of his effectivness comes from tip ins and put backs..I see no reason for him to be denied(and never said such) but I do think that this team is far more offensively advanced than any of his GS teams and offensive options like Daniels/Fin/Terry/Stack must be well utilized if this team is to succeed the highest goal. In my book, Damp would be the anchor of the Defense and a good tool on offense. Pass him the ball? Of course. Necessarily taking more shots than last season on a less offensively talented team? Nah. I don't foresee this being a problem at all, but I do think Damp is best suited for 10-14ppg.
Of course, C, if he has become an unstoppable force, give him the ball all day [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-09-2004, 04:04 PM

Who cares if he gets touches or not? Don't we want to have other options then jump shots? This optimism about him and Dirk working well together is a godsend so far. It's exactly what we need to be hearing.

sike · 10-09-2004, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
Who cares if he gets touches or not? Don't we want to have other options then jump shots? This optimism about him and Dirk working well together is a godsend so far. It's exactly what we need to be hearing.

Well, oh poorly named one, I care. He needs touches. Yes, they need other options than jumpshots. Yes, it is wonderful to hear that Dirk and Damp are quickly coming together.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-09-2004, 06:03 PM

And the name "sike" is original? Harris will start eventually moron. Yeah, that's right, it's starting to get irritating that you keep pointing out my name, so everyone you do, I'm just gonna call you an idiot. Plus your posts don't flash anything worth reading either.

sike · 10-09-2004, 06:21 PM

this was so rich I had to break it down...
[quote]
And the name "sike" is original? Harris will start eventually moron.[quote]

I don’t know that it is entirely original..then again, lack in originality is not what is so amusing about your name: it’s the fact that it is based upon a mistake..yeah..... that’s it.

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Yeah, that's right, it's starting to get irritating that you keep pointing out my name

ok, then why get so defensive about it.. I mean he "will start eventually"

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so everyone you do, I'm just gonna call you an idiot.

"So everyone you do"? Please don't call me an idiot, that would be rude.

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Plus your posts don't flash anything worth reading either.

not only does this fail to make sense, it is rude as well.

Listen bro, if you had a problem with me joking with your name, you should have pm'd me, I would have gladly stopped. I suppose its my way of having fun with posters who I think and in your case thought could handle it. Seeing that you cannot, I will stop. As far as calling me an idiot, don't. As for putting down my posts, who do you think you are? That is a pretty arrogant thing to say. It only makes you look petty. As for name calling, I'll be the bigger man.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-09-2004, 06:33 PM

It was a mis-type, sue me. PM you? I actually never figured out what PMing is. And if you were the bigger man, then you wouldn't be so immature as to consistently point out my name.

sike · 10-09-2004, 06:39 PM

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I actually never figured out what PMing is.

well you've got one from me.

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if you were the bigger man, then you wouldn't be so immature as to consistently point out my name.

I've done it four times....you've been here since, July....yeah, thats consistently.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]
I'm willing to forgive and forget, everybody has a bad day, I'm hoping this is just one of those for you. As for me, I'll keep my word and kill the comments on your name...funny though they be.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-09-2004, 06:49 PM

How do you PM so I can report you as well? If you don't tell me, I'll just find out from someone else.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-09-2004, 06:52 PM

Just kidding, yeah I'm the moron. I did have a bad day, but 4 times insulting my name is enough. I didn't know you could send private messages.

sike · 10-09-2004, 06:54 PM

you look up in the very top left hand portion of your computer screen and click the little lock...with the words that say something about a new message. it will send you to you pm station.
or just click on my lock (look in the top right hand portion of any of my "flashless" posts) and you can compose your sonnet there.

like I said, bro, forgive and forget [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

twelli · 10-09-2004, 07:45 PM

Thanks you two!

You just set a great example of how to end a misfortunate dispute that could have gone ugly, without having the mods shutting down the thread, which btw could also be named 'DevinHarriswillstart and Sike getting in sync' [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

dude1394 · 10-09-2004, 08:27 PM

Dang it, I was hoping for more fireworks. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

madape · 10-11-2004, 10:26 AM

Didn't Dump fumble just about every pass that was thrown his way in the fan jam? He has a reputation for bad hands. Judging by his performance last weekend, I don't think we can dismiss that reputation just yet.

Male30Dan · 10-11-2004, 12:03 PM

Hahaha... Mr. Ape, are you ever so slightly coming around to Dampier???

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I don't think we can dismiss that reputation just yet???

You will eat major crow after this is all over and I think you are beginning to understand that fact!

madape · 10-11-2004, 12:57 PM

Reading about big Dump getting dominated by Shawn Bradley on Friday is not going to make me change my mind on him. Dump stunk. Bradley crushed him. Shouldn't it be you who takes a second look?

EricaLubarsky · 10-11-2004, 01:07 PM

because of a game that is not even at pre-season level? Madape, as an intelligent poster, you should examine that statement.

madape · 10-11-2004, 01:16 PM

Yes it's early. I keep hearing about all this crow I'm going to be eating, but all I see is a big plate of piping hot chicken fried steak and mashed potatoes. That game on Saturday sure was delicious! If Dump looks like that all year, I'll be a fat, fat man by the time the lottery- er, I mean playoffs- come around.

Then again, it might not be a bad idea for me to develop a taste for crow. I hear it's not bad, right Erica?

sike · 10-11-2004, 01:19 PM

I tend to think that Damp did not want to bruise up ole Shawn too badly. Fisher has mentioned upon more than one occasion that Shawn looks like he's got a little fire lit under his butt....I hope so, I would love for Shawn to outplay Booth so badly that Nellie would have to make him the primary backup center.

EricaLubarsky · 10-11-2004, 01:20 PM

I still don't like the taste of crow, Madape, that's why I don't bet against my team, especially when it means not giving a guy a chance to replicate what he did only a few months previous.

sike · 10-11-2004, 01:29 PM

Monkey knows that if Damp stays healthy....he will be looking at a 9ppg 9rpg worse case scenario....and even though I have higher expectatons than that, Ape has predicted worse....I hope you like feathers with your "chicken fried" crow [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

EricaLubarsky · 10-11-2004, 01:38 PM

my worst case scenario is 6ppg. 7rpg, 1.7bpg.

My bet would be on 8ppg, 9.2rpg, 2.1bpg.

sike · 10-11-2004, 01:44 PM

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My bet would be on 8ppg, 9.2rpg, 2.1bpg.

I thought the .2 rebounds and .1 on blocks was pretty funny EL...very precise [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

madape · 10-11-2004, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
I tend to think that Damp did not want to bruise up ole Shawn too badly. Fisher has mentioned upon more than one occasion that Shawn looks like he's got a little fire lit under his butt....I hope so, I would love for Shawn to outplay Booth so badly that Nellie would have to make him the primary backup center.

Haha. So your excuse for Dump stinking up the court was because he just didn't "want" to play well. Well, welcome to the wonderful world the great Erick Dampierr. That same excuse has been given about five thousand times in regards to Dump's mediocre play over the years. His first real action in a Mavericks uniform was as predictable as anything in basketball. Dump disappointing fans with his lazy and uninspired play is so constant, you can almost set your watch by it.

Q - What time is it when the Dump looks energetic and motivated?
A - Time to get a new watch. (Alternate answer, contract year).

Can Dump play better than he played on Saturday? Maybe... Will he? No.

And if he's ever asked to go up against a center that physically outmatches him, let's say someone like Shawn Bradley, I think you can expect another slice of what you got on Saturday.. which is to say a big slice of crow.

I'm not betting against the Mavericks, I'm betting against this bum. You should think about doing the same. The odds are looking pretty sweet.

[img]i/expressions/musicnote.gif[/img]Sing a song of sixpense, pocket full of rye.
four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie.
when the pie was opened, The birds began to sing
wasnt that a dainty dish to set before the king?[img]i/expressions/musicnote.gif[/img]

"I like crow. It's good eating, man!" .. Avery "King" Johnson

Male30Dan · 10-11-2004, 01:58 PM

At least you can always make me laugh ape...

Like I said in several threads... I WILL call you out on this and I hope Erica, Sike, and SEVERAL others do too after he puts up a double double and out plays your expectations...

Keep the cute songs coming though, as I haven't had a lot to smile about with Dallas and UT playing the way they have...

sike · 10-11-2004, 02:00 PM

I didn't say he did not "want" to do anything other than hurt Shawn. Nice try though. Are you going to tell me that guys were not holding back at the "fan jam? I guess Finley and Stackhouse suck as well...I mean, come on, they did not play well at the fan jam. All joking aside, Damp played no better and no worse than others guys...its just a scrimmage....nothing to get to high or to low about.

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Can Dump play better than he played on Saturday? Maybe... Will he? No.

Your determination to blindly deny Damp even the chance of a good season is to be respected…you sir, are at least consistent. Foolish though I hope you be.

EricaLubarsky · 10-11-2004, 02:05 PM

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Can Dump play better than he played on Saturday? Maybe... Will he? No.

wrong on both accounts! Can he? Are you questioning his ability? Only 7 months ago he had

a 16point, 25reb, 3assist, 2block, 1steal game,
a 26point, 18reb, 2block game
an 18point, 13rebound, 4block game,
a 7point, 14reb, 3block, 2assist game,
a 12point, 13reb, 3block game
a 19point, 21reb, 2block, 2assist game,
an 18point, 13reb, 4block game,
a 16point, 17rebound game
a 16point, 11rebound 2block game
a 26point, 18rebound, 2block game and a
a 13point, 11rebound game

and those are only stats from games in March. Now give me a break. You can be unrealistically pessimistic in your opinion but you can't lie about the facts.

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if he's ever asked to go up against a center that physically outmatches him, let's say someone like Shawn Bradley, I think you can expect another slice of what you got on Saturday.. which is to say a big slice of crow.

11/2/2003 STAPLES Center, Los Angeles, CA- 14points, 23rebounds,2 blocks against Shaquille O'Neal (17/14- outrebounds Shaq by 9)
11/12/2003 The Arena in Oakland, Oakland, CA (versus Detroit)- 12points, 14reb, 2blocks (9/11)
11/16/2003 ARCO Arena, Sacramento, CA- 11points, 15rebounds, 1block (Miller 11/11 on 33% shooting, Vlade 11/7 on 22% shooting)
11/18/2003 SBC Center, San Antonio, TX- 17 points, 11rebounds, 1block (Rasho 4/6)
11/19/2003 Toyota Center, Houston, TX- 15points, 12rebounds- outrebounds and outshoots yao
11/29/2003 The Arena in Oakland, Oakland, CA (San Antonio)- 9points, 16rebounds
12/23/2003 The Arena in Oakland, Oakland, CA (Lakers)- 17points, 11rebounds (kept Shaq to 5 rebounds)
1/3/2004 The Palace of Auburn Hills, Auburn Hill- 14points, 12rebounds, 3blocks
3/19/2004 The Arena in Oakland, Oakland, CA (Houston) 12points, 8rebounds (kept Yao to 10points on 27% shooting)

if your facts were bets, you'd have eaten a lot of crow already.

Max Power · 10-11-2004, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: madape
Reading about big Dump getting dominated by Shawn Bradley on Friday is not going to make me change my mind on him. Dump stunk. Bradley crushed him. Shouldn't it be you who takes a second look?

Bradley has averaged 29.5 minutes per game FIVE times and his best rebounding total was 8.7 per game in those years. Dampier has averaged that many minutes only twice and his WORST rebounding effort those years was 8.7 (his best was of course 12.0).

Who is the bust?

madape · 10-11-2004, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Max Power

Quote:

Originally posted by: madape
Reading about big Dump getting dominated by Shawn Bradley on Friday is not going to make me change my mind on him. Dump stunk. Bradley crushed him. Shouldn't it be you who takes a second look?

Bradley has averaged 29.5 minutes per game FIVE times and his best rebounding total was 8.7 per game in those years. Dampier has averaged that many minutes only twice and his WORST rebounding effort those years was 8.7 (his best was of course 12.0).

Who is the bust?

Don't make me "bust" out some shot blocking stats on you MaxPower. If I do, you will be pained to admit that big Dump is indeed a big, big "bust" (at least in comparison to Shawn). Rebounding, as our obese friend Danny Fortson will tell you, is not the end-all be-all of a low post player. In fact, it's not even close to being the most important stat. Give me shotblocking over rebounding any day of the week. Give me plus/minus too. These are just two stats in which Shawn beats Dump, and he beats him by a mile in both. The fact that Shawn is better in every single other important statistical category is more than just significant in evaluating the relative worth of both players, it's critical. You certainly wouldn't say that Dan Dickau is a better player than Jason Kidd simply because he shoots better behind the arc. Would you? And Shawn's rebounding ain't that shabby either. He regularly ranks among the top 20-30 or so players in rebounds per minute (and without exception always ranks in the top two or three in terms of shotblocking). Quite simply, Bradley is a better player all around center than big Dump and has been his whole career.

Yet he's scheduled to earn about 10% of big Dump's salary over the next seven years, despite being around the same age. We gave up two first round picks and two good veteran players to get Dump, while we re-signed Shawn as a free agent and gave up nothing. So you tell me, who's on track to be a bigger "bust" for the Mavericks now? In terms of living up to expectations, and living up to their contract, I think the answer is obvious. Bradley is grossly underpaid, while Dump has one of the worst contracts in all of basketball. Dump has "bust" written all over him. How could anyone make such a collosal mistake?

sike · 10-11-2004, 05:57 PM

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Dump has one of the worst contracts in all of basketball.

this is based upon pure speculation Madape....you cannot state as fact what is mere opinion and hope on your part.
I'm not here to put Shawn down in any way, I like his game, but for you to call Damp on tack to be a bust based on one 40 minute scrimmage is laughable....and as many times as you bring up Damp's poor seasons in the past, the Damp supporter can just as fairly throw last year's awesome season in your face....Damp is not on any "track" as of yet, unless you count his hard work being that is being praised by all the coaches and good chemistry with Dirk as a "track"...

Max Power · 10-11-2004, 06:00 PM

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Give me shotblocking over rebounding any day of the week.

Shotblocking is overrated. There is no guarantee that your team will get the ball - it is usually a toss up as to who gets the ball afterwards. A defensive rebound is MUCH more important because you have completely KILLED a scoring chance from the opposing team.

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Give me plus/minus too. These are just two stats in which Shawn beats Dump, and he beats him by a mile in both.

Plus/minus will of course go to Shawn BECAUSE HE PLAYS ON THE MAVERICKS. Since we win far more games than we lose our plus/minus for every player is better than it would be on for a losing club.

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We gave up two first round picks and two good veteran players to get Dump

Our first rounder which is going to be poor and a Philly first which will probably be a $1M buyout. Those good veteran players were Najera and L8 - neither of which I'll miss at all. Journeyman is the kindest way to describe both of them.

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while we re-signed Shawn as a free agent and gave up nothing

We TRADED for Shawn and have gotten minimal return for that trade. We gave up Cassell and Gatling (who had represented the Mavs in the All Star Game less than a week earlier) for Bradley. Now THAT is a colossal mistake.

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Quite simply, Bradley is a better player all around center than big Dump and has been his whole career.

Dampier is a far better center because Nellie will play him. In fact Nellie seems excited to have Dampier on the team and is reworking the offense to involve him on a regular basis. Compare that to Bradley - Nellie would forget about him for weeks at a time. Is Nellie that bad of a evaluator of talent? Of course no. Bradley is a decent backup center who occasionally has a dominant game or stretch of games. Dampier was a far better player last year - look at his results vs the elite Western teams and compare that to Bradley. THAT is the most important comparison.