Mavericks & Raptors

[The Miles]

Dallas Mavericks trade:

Jerry Stackhouse

Toronto Raptors trade:

Eric Williams
Aaron Williams





PG-Jason Terry | Devin Harris
SG-Doug Christie | Marquis Daniels
SF-Josh Howard | Eric Williams
PF-Dirk Nowitzki | Keith Van Horn
CT-Erick Dampier | Aaron Williams/DJ Mbenga

I love that rotation, defense, defense, defense. The 2nd team has plenty of firepower without Stack, Marquis should get an expanded role and to be honest, I don't know if there is room for Stack and Marquis on the 2nd team. It is nice to have a scorer that can defend (Quis) and a defender that can score (Williams) instead of two scorers that can defend (Quis/Stack).

[snoop]

Too many people on this board underestimate stacks importance to the mavs. He is our best player at getting to the line because he is so aggersive getting to the basket. I love stack and dont want him traded with out a like player in return.

Dallas Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Marquis Daniels
6-6 SG from Auburn
9.1 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 2.1 apg in 23.5 minutes
Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG from North Carolina
14.9 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.3 apg in 28.9 minutes
2nd round pic



Incoming
Chris Wilcox
6-10 PF from Maryland
7.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 18.6 minutes
Corey Maggette
6-6 SG from Duke
22.2 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.4 apg in 36.9 minutes
Change in team outlook: +6.1 ppg, +3.3 rpg, and -0.3
apg.


L.A. Clippers Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Chris Wilcox
6-10 PF from Maryland
7.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 18.6 minutes
Corey Maggette
6-6 SG from Duke
22.2 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.4 apg in 36.9 minutes



Incoming
Marquis Daniels
6-6 SG from Auburn
9.1 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 2.1 apg in 23.5 minutes
Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG from North Carolina
14.9 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.3 apg in 28.9 minutes
Change in team outlook: -6.1 ppg, -3.3 rpg, and +0.3
apg.



Successful Scenario
Due to Dallas being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is
invoked. Dallas had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of
the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did
happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the
Collective Bargaining Agreement.

we get maggette who is a stack type player but younger and better and wilcox who is decent pistol packing player

la get a expiring deal in stack and dont have to worry about resigning wilcox, which sterling hates doing.

[Nash13]

I'm with Snoop on this one. I think if we do trade Stack, we need to get an average scorer. Neither Williams boys' can score.

[Lebanese_Fan]

Love the trade snoop, but doubt the clippers wil trade Maggette for a player not named Paul Pierce.

[The Miles]

Neither Williams boys' can score.

Before being traded to the Raptors, Eric Williams was averaging 12.6 ppg (1.43 PPS) on 47% fg's. Stackhouse averaged 14.9 ppg (1.26 PPS) on 41.4% fg's for the Mavericks. Aaron Williams would be brought in for defense, obviously, that is what the Mavericks want from their backup center position.

I just think that between Nowitzki, Howard, Jet, Marquis, and Van Horn that the team has more than enough firepower offensively. We need to get better defensively and to add a guy like Eric Williams, a very good defender that can score, while also landing a proven backup big man that has played big roles on NBA Finals teams, is an upgrade to the team.

If you want to win the title you need to be able to defend. Adding Doug Christie and the two Williams would upgrade the defense of this team considerably while not losing too much offensively at all. Finley's PPS of 1.11 was well below the team average, spreading his shots around should result in more points as Christie (1.11 PPS) won't take the 14 shots that Finley took a night and the rest will go to the team that as a whole scored 1.25 PPS.

Lowering the opponents PPS while increasing the offenses PPS is a good way to better yourself defensively.

But thanks for the feedback, Stack is a good player, I never said he wasn't but to get you have to give. I would like the two Williams, maybe Van Horn for them + Murray's expirer could be worked out with Murray being immediately cut from the roster.

Thanks.

[chumdawg]

Nice idea. Though the all-defense-all-the-time style doesn't get me excited about watching the games, I do think that if you are going to do something you need to do it the whole way. And I agree that Stack and Daniels may well be redundant.

But why does Toronto do it, do you think?

[Mavs414]

Originally posted by: Nash13
I'm with Snoop on this one. I think if we do trade Stack, we need to get an average scorer. Neither Williams boys' can score.

agree

[grndmstr_c]

I have pretty much zero interest in Aaron Williams as anything other than salary filler. He's another one of those guys who will work hard for you, but just isn't talented enough to be very effective. Erik Williams...eh, I don't know. I have enough questions about Christie (health/age) and Quis (he has yet to prove he can be one of the top 7 rotation guys on a good team, much less a starter) that I'd be very reluctant to put all the SG eggs in their collective basket right now. On the other hand, Stack could be getting 12-14 minutes per game at SF, and while I think Stack's a better player than Erik overall, Erik is (or at least has been) a better SF. So if as the season unfolds it looks like the combination of Quis, Doug, and Josh can get the job done at SG as well as the combo of Quis, Doug and Stack, then perhaps trading Stack for a lesser player who can nonetheless give you better play at the bigger swing position would be worth looking into.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I think we now need Stacks jackin of shots if we don't get another scorer at the 2. I think he'll be a better scorer this year.

[snoop]

if stack gets starter mins. i think his ppg is around 19 to 21

[aexchange]

if stack starts, we're going to be a dog to win 45 games this yr.

[snoop]

as much as I hate to admit it there is nothing on the court Fin does better than Stack at this point in their careers meaning that stack would be a upgrade at the 2

[The Miles]

Not saying Stack isn't the team's best SG at this moment but all four of them are really similar in terms of what type of impact they can make on the court.

My point is that you need Christie starting at the SG to start off better defensively, increase ball movement, and to carry out Avery's game plans. Stack can come off the bench as the volume scorer, Finley can come off the bench (if he is still here) to be the shooter, and Marquis can fill in the holes. I just like the idea of Christie starting alot more, Stack tends to bog things down at times offensively and we haven't had a SG like Christie here, one that can create for others and defend, so I think he is a better fit in the starting lineup.

[Joey]

Originally posted by: aexchange
if stack starts, we're going to be a dog to win 45 games this yr.

You really think so? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

[grndmstr_c]

I don't really see Christie as a guy who's going to create for others. I see him as a willing and very capable passer who, as long as he can get his outside shot back after last year, will be a nice facilitator of offensive flow, and will bring superior team defense relative to the other guys (Stack/Quis) playing the position.

I don't see him as the starter, though. My guess is that nod will either go to Stack, as the guy who puts the most pressure on the defense (and who, incidentally, had good +/-numbers when he shared the floor with JT, Josh, Dirk, and Damp last year), or Quis, if he's gotten his game together enough to play a point-like role, thereby allowing Terry to look for his shot a little more - this would probably be the best case scenario but Quis has got to play a lot better than last year to make it work.

[The Miles]

I honestly think that Marquis Daniels just plays better as a starter. Some folks are just like that I guess but he seems like a different player, like he brings a different level of confidence, when he starts.

I can handle starting Quis, in fact I would prefer it but I was under the impression from reading others viewpoints that it would be one of the two veterans in which case I would prefer Christie.

It still feels like a logjam at SG.

[grndmstr_c]

It still feels like a logjam at SG.

That's what everyone thought last year. It was the least of my worries then, and it's even less of one now.

[chumdawg]

But GMC, it indeed was a sort of problem last year. Once the playoffs came around, you had Marquis sitting on the bench and AJ snapping at a reporter's question, saying that you can't play everyone in the playoffs, only to then play Marquis heavy minutes further down the line.

The conventional wisdom seems to be that a set rotation is best. So how do you squeeze three SG's into a set rotation?

[snoop]

i am waiting to pass judgement on quis. his rookie year was stellar and last year he was injured so i can't wait to see what he brings.

[grndmstr_c]

The problem in the playoffs last year was that nobody the Mavs put in at SG played well with any consistency, not that there were too many options. Between Stack's history of recurring groin injuries, Christie's age and recent injury struggles, and Quis' thoroughly unproven worth (not to mention Devin's unproven worth, which could conceivably open up minutes at pg for Quis), worrying about a logjam at this point doesn't make much sense. Let's wait till we get a better idea about how some of the question marks after these guys' names are going to get answered. It's not like we're trying to figure out how to rotate Pierce, Kobe, and VC here.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally posted by: The Miles
I honestly think that Marquis Daniels just plays better as a starter. Some folks are just like that I guess but he seems like a different player, like he brings a different level of confidence, when he starts.

I can handle starting Quis, in fact I would prefer it but I was under the impression from reading others viewpoints that it would be one of the two veterans in which case I would prefer Christie.

I agree completely, Miles. The last game I remember Quis starting was the game against Sacramento, the day we made the KVH trade. Quis started, and single-handedly carried the team in the first half, until Dirk turned it on in the second. Quis was incredible, finishing the game with a near triple-double. I also remember the very first game he started, in 03-04. Nash was injured, and if I remember correctly we played Seattle. Quis finished the game with something like 29 pts, 9 rebs, and 9 assists. Stack, on the other hand, I see as the opposite; a phenominal sixth man, but not someone I'd like to start. Unfortunately, I think AJ feels differently, and seems to prefer Stack to either of them.

[chumdawg]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
The problem in the playoffs last year was that nobody the Mavs put in at SG played well with any consistency, not that there were too many options. Between Stack's history of recurring groin injuries, Christie's age and recent injury struggles, and Quis' thoroughly unproven worth (not to mention Devin's unproven worth, which could conceivably open up minutes at pg for Quis), worrying about a logjam at this point doesn't make much sense. Let's wait till we get a better idea about how some of the question marks after these guys' names are going to get answered. It's not like we're trying to figure out how to rotate Pierce, Kobe, and VC here.

Some would say that one problem (inconsistent minutes) begets the other (inconsistent play). I know that some of this board were saying that very loudly in the case of Harris.

[The Miles]

I agree completely, Miles. The last game I remember Quis starting was the game against Sacramento, the day we made the KVH trade. Quis started, and single-handedly carried the team in the first half, until Dirk turned it on in the second. Quis was incredible, finishing the game with a near triple-double. I also remember the very first game he started, in 03-04. Nash was injured, and if I remember correctly we played Seattle. Quis finished the game with something like 29 pts, 9 rebs, and 9 assists. Stack, on the other hand, I see as the opposite; a phenominal sixth man, but not someone I'd like to start. Unfortunately, I think AJ feels differently, and seems to prefer Stack to either of them.

Yeah, no doubt. Even last year, with a bum ankle, he stepped in for Finley the first night Fin was out (after Orlando, in Miami) and played a very good game. I am ready for him to become the 2nd offensive option, right now, tomorrow.

Crazy talk? Maybe, who the heck knows. I just like the production Marquis brings. And in his 17 starts last year, 14 of those starts were on an ankle that required him to go back to the IL when Finley healed up.

<u>Marquis Daniels (Career Starts [32])</u>

35.7 mpg
15.5 ppg
5.6 rpg
3.9 apg
1.8 spg
1.8 to's
48.8% fg's (205-420)
22.9% 3's (8-35)
1.18 PPS
21-11 as starter

The team has gone 110-54 (.671, 55-27 pace) in the same time period that Marquis's starts led to a record of 21-11 (.656, 54-28 pace). So, it isn't like Marquis has hurt the team.

Some would say that one problem (inconsistent minutes) begets the other (inconsistent play). I know that some of this board were saying that very loudly in the case of Harris.

I agree with that and that is why I don't want to see the team go with a musical chairs approach to the SG spot this year. I hope that Marquis starts and plays 35 a night. I hope Stack is the 6th man and plays 30 a night. And that means that Doug Christie would get the inconsistent minutes, as a veteran he should be able to handle that better than a younger player like Marquis.

[grndmstr_c]

Some would say that one problem (inconsistent minutes) begets the other (inconsistent play). I know that some of this board were saying that very loudly in the case of Harris.

But who got inconsistent minutes? Not Fin and Stack. The top two guys in the SG rotation got consistent minutes and still failed to produce at the level the Mavs needed. I don't see how having a less talented 3rd option than Quis would have helped the situation any, and that's what the argument that the supposed logjam hurt us last year amounts to.