Free Agent Watch: CP3 & D12 - Page 24 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Kidd Karma · 07-03-2013, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

@ESPNSteinLine: Rockets/Mavs clearly still have better shot to steal Dwight from Lakers than Warriors. But Dubs, I'm told, have forced way into conversation

GSW has no leverage, unless Dwight says he's okay with what is available from GSW, MLE deal or vet minimum....only then would the Lakers talk trade, but even then, LAL will call his bluff through his signing.

marc9211 · 07-03-2013, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

It isn't about missing out on players for me. It is about "powder" that I'm tired of hearing. Cuban has this idea that powder will bring in big FAs. But most FAs like to go where there is some talent already on the roster (or at least some young players who have hope). They don't like going to a stripped down roster.

The Mavs have to sign someone long term this year. Now it may not make them contenders but they have to get SOMEONE so they can use that signing later on for something more useful.

That is EXACTLY what Nellie did with Walker. He flipped Walker for Terry. And that is the problem with Cuban's thinking (IMO). You have to have something in order to work with other teams for something else.

Couldn't agree any more.. We have to get someone. Can't keep entering free agency with nothing

OneLove22 · 07-03-2013, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

If Howard doesn't sign, Cuban better not play the rental game again this year. He has to get trading assets, and that only comes with signing players for longer than one year.

We should play the tank game if no Howard.

Dtownsfinest · 07-03-2013, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

41. Why pick a tiny piece of this post apart? What's your point?

I wasn't picking any part of your post. We drafted Dirk. When we drafted him he wasn't a "great player". When you said our day would come for once again signing "great players" I was simply reminding you we never have. We've never been a main attraction for great players. But Cuban and co. seem to believe otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

None of the second tier players (josh smith, iguodala, Bynum) or PG's have agreed to deals yet, people need to relax.

I'd like to hope the Mavs didn't give up for 2 seasons in order to settle for 2nd tier players...

...though if someone can get Bynum back to where he was 2 or 3 seasons ago......that will be a very happy team.

LonghornDub · 07-03-2013, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I wasn't picking any part of your post. We drafted Dirk. When we drafted him he wasn't a "great player". When you said our day would come for once again signing "great players" I was simply reminding you we never have. We've never been a main attraction for great players. But Cuban and co. seem to believe otherwise.

Hard to be an attraction for great players when you never have cap space until last year.

Dtownsfinest · 07-03-2013, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Hard to be an attraction for great players when you never have cap space until last year.

How much cap space did the Knicks have when Carmelo DEMANDED he be traded to them? I get what you're saying but i've just yet to see anything to suggest that players would chose Dallas over cities like New York, LA, Chicago, etc. When Cuban went on this clear cap room plan he's been on for the past few years my hope was that players would basically have no choice but to atleast entertain our offers because we're a more attractive destination than a Houston or a Golden State or so I thought...

LonghornDub · 07-03-2013, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

How much cap space did the Knicks have when Carmelo DEMANDED he be traded to them? I get what you're saying but i've just yet to see anything to suggest that players would chose Dallas over cities like New York, LA, Chicago, etc. When Cuban went on this clear cap room plan he's been on for the past few years my hope was that players would basically have no choice but to atleast entertain our offers because we're a more attractive destination than a Houston or a Golden State or so I thought...

New York is New York. If you're upset that Dallas isn't a "destination" like New York (or Boston or LA), get ready to be upset forever.

SMC0007 · 07-03-2013, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I wasn't picking any part of your post. We drafted Dirk. When we drafted him he wasn't a "great player". When you said our day would come for once again signing "great players" I was simply reminding you we never have. We've never been a main attraction for great players. But Cuban and co. seem to believe otherwise.

I'd like to hope the Mavs didn't give up for 2 seasons in order to settle for 2nd tier players...

...though if someone can get Bynum back to where he was 2 or 3 seasons ago......that will be a very happy team.

You're right. Perhaps Dirk wasn't a great player when he was drafted, but no doubt he grew into one and you could see the potential rather quickly. Whether we drafted a guy or not is still adding to the team. But I will give you in principle that he technically wasn't a great player when he was added.

Not every team can be a main attraction for great players. If no one aside from Dirk was a great player on the championship team, it should show you that you don't need to have the top FA come here. WE won a title after THE top guy took his talents to South Beach.

The reason I said pick apart the post, is because there was an obvious flow to it and IMO it's just a stick in the mud pessimistic attitude to pull one piece from the idea in whole. You can't please everyone obviously, and if we weren't going after Howard people are more pissed. You just can't be dooms day if the main FA doesn't come to your team, you strap up the next best if it gives you a chance and roll it out and hope for the best.

Dirk's Knee · 07-03-2013, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneLove22

We should play the tank game if no Howard.

Dallas is one of only 9 teams which have won a championship since 1980. There are currently 30 teams. Only 18 different teams have won the championship in the history of the NBA. To suggest that Dallas isn't a choice NBA destination is crazy. Now there are many geographic/lifestyle factors for which other cities would certainly beat out any city in Texas, but to suggest players wouldn't want to come to Dallas for franchise specific reasons is ridiculous. Cuban has done wonders for the team and has historically always been willing to open the checkbook to build a competitive franchise. Even if we miss of Howard, Cuban and crew are trying hard to gracefully shift to a post Dirk squad and I thank them for that rather than suffering through a handful of years being the worst of the worst. One number one pick, like the tankers would like, does not make you a contender. In fact, I invite you to find me a number one pick which won the championship the year he was drafted. In fact, I think there was only 1 number 1 pick in the last 20 years which actually won a championship with the team which drafted them (Duncan with Spurs). Tanking gets you nowhere.

spreedom · 07-03-2013, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

How much cap space did the Knicks have when Carmelo DEMANDED he be traded to them? I get what you're saying but i've just yet to see anything to suggest that players would chose Dallas over cities like New York, LA, Chicago, etc. When Cuban went on this clear cap room plan he's been on for the past few years my hope was that players would basically have no choice but to atleast entertain our offers because we're a more attractive destination than a Houston or a Golden State or so I thought...

Melo demanded that awful trade (and it's telling of the organization that they made it and immediately got worse) because his wife wanted to live in New York and get a TV show. That had nothing to do with anything related to basketball except Melo apparently being a horrible judge of talent (who would want to go to that cesspool that remained after he got there?). Second seed in the East or not, the Knicks aren't contenders and haven't been for almost 15 years.

mavs777 · 07-03-2013, 05:08 PM

RT @ramonashelburne: One THEORY that wont go away is that Rockets option is smoke to throw people off scent Dwight has been ticketed for Dallas all along.

mavs777 · 07-03-2013, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

New York is New York. If you're upset that Dallas isn't a "destination" like New York (or Boston or LA), get ready to be upset forever.

Boston isn't a destination

MavsFTR · 07-03-2013, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

RT @ramonashelburne: One THEORY that wont go away is that Rockets option is smoke to throw people off scent Dwight has been ticketed for Dallas all along.

Give me that sweet, sweet hope.

OneLove22 · 07-03-2013, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Dallas is one of only 9 teams which have won a championship since 1980. There are currently 30 teams. Only 18 different teams have won the championship in the history of the NBA. To suggest that Dallas isn't a choice NBA destination is crazy. Now there are many geographic/lifestyle factors for which other cities would certainly beat out any city in Texas, but to suggest players wouldn't want to come to Dallas for franchise specific reasons is ridiculous. Cuban has done wonders for the team and has historically always been willing to open the checkbook to build a competitive franchise. Even if we miss of Howard, Cuban and crew are trying hard to gracefully shift to a post Dirk squad and I thank them for that rather than suffering through a handful of years being the worst of the worst. One number one pick, like the tankers would like, does not make you a contender. In fact, I invite you to find me a number one pick which won the championship the year he was drafted. In fact, I think there was only 1 number 1 pick in the last 20 years which actually won a championship with the team which drafted them (Duncan with Spurs). Tanking gets you nowhere.

Well I'm not the one suggesting nobody wants to play in Dallas.

But if you give me Andrew Wiggins and free agents next season I'll take that over almost any other scenario.

OneLove22 · 07-03-2013, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Boston isn't a destination

Really?

FINtastic · 07-03-2013, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

RT @ramonashelburne: One THEORY that wont go away is that Rockets option is smoke to throw people off scent Dwight has been ticketed for Dallas all along.

I'm not sure I quite understand this. Why would he hide or be ashamed of "being ticketed for Dallas all along"? Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see why that would be something he's trying to hide (assuming it were how he truly felt).

mavs777 · 07-03-2013, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneLove22

Really?

Yes really, when it the last time someone demanded a trade to boston or they sign a max guy?

OneLove22 · 07-03-2013, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Yes really, when it the last time someone demanded a trade to boston or they sign a max guy?

Ray Allen / Kevin Garnett

Either way, they are still a top class organization in a massive market so they can easily attract free agents.

LonghornDub · 07-03-2013, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Boston isn't a destination

Lol. Okay.

LonghornDub · 07-03-2013, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I'm not sure I quite understand this. Why would he hide or be ashamed of "being ticketed for Dallas all along"? Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see why that would be something he's trying to hide (assuming it were how he truly felt).

I'd guess to avoid appearances of tampering stemming from Cuban's relationship with Dan Fegan. But it's certainly a tenuous theory....

Underdog · 07-03-2013, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I'm not sure I quite understand this. Why would he hide or be ashamed of "being ticketed for Dallas all along"? Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see why that would be something he's trying to hide (assuming it were how he truly felt).

Every good drama needs tension...

mavs777 · 07-03-2013, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneLove22

Ray Allen / Kevin Garnett

Either way, they are still a top class organization in a massive market so they can easily attract free agents.

Neither demanded trades to Boston, Ainge just used assets to acquire them, totally different. That can happen anywhere

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-03-2013, 06:15 PM

Hey, I'll take any optimistic twit where Howard likes our situation.

grndmstr_c · 07-03-2013, 06:17 PM

I'd think Boston, Chicago and Dallas are probably all comparable as destination cities, and that all three rank behind LA and NY.

As for the THEORY about Dwight, Dallas, and Houston, who care if it makes any sense or not? The hopeful part of that tweet, if you give it any credence, isn't the theory itself, but rather the fact that it hasn't yet been disproved.

sefant77 · 07-03-2013, 08:57 PM

Reading some stuff on clutchfans...boy if Dwight signs here the board would completly blow off and turn into eternal hate for Dwight within one second.

Would be fuuuun

MavsFTR · 07-04-2013, 12:42 AM

Apparently Dan Fegan's boss, Happy Walters, is now following the Rockets on Twitter...

He15man · 07-04-2013, 01:21 AM

If Dwight did end up here, i don't care who we got after that as long as it helped us get Dwight.

But if we don't get Dwight, hopefully we can snag Bynum and Ellis or some sort of combination, at least give Dirk something to try and work with.

I don't really care for those guys, but at this point i don't want Dirk missing the playoffs to close out his career either.

He15man · 07-04-2013, 01:29 AM

How would you guys feel if Cuban did get Eric Gordon?

If only he could stay healthy...

yahyes · 07-04-2013, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by He15man

How would you guys feel if Cuban did get Eric Gordon?

If only he could stay healthy...

I'd rather get Corey Brewer back if you're talking about talking about starting SG. Eric Gordon is not the answer IMO.

Dtownsfinest · 07-04-2013, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

New York is New York. If you're upset that Dallas isn't a "destination" like New York (or Boston or LA), get ready to be upset forever.

I'm not "upset" about that. I know we aren't a destination like New York or LA(Boston is probably on the same level of Dallas if not worse). That's actually my point. I'd prefer us quit this wild goose chase and rebuild our team from scratch. But I also understand that its in their best interest to keep putting fans in seats and most fans don't want to see a young team go through its bumps so they have to find talent to put around Dirk and atleast get a playoff spot. I just hope they don't commit long term to any guys like the Josh Smith's or Brandon Jenning's of the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

You're right. Perhaps Dirk wasn't a great player when he was drafted, but no doubt he grew into one and you could see the potential rather quickly. Whether we drafted a guy or not is still adding to the team. But I will give you in principle that he technically wasn't a great player when he was added.

Not every team can be a main attraction for great players. If no one aside from Dirk was a great player on the championship team, it should show you that you don't need to have the top FA come here. WE won a title after THE top guy took his talents to South Beach.

The reason I said pick apart the post, is because there was an obvious flow to it and IMO it's just a stick in the mud pessimistic attitude to pull one piece from the idea in whole. You can't please everyone obviously, and if we weren't going after Howard people are more pissed. You just can't be dooms day if the main FA doesn't come to your team, you strap up the next best if it gives you a chance and roll it out and hope for the best.

Yea but we drafted Dirk with a lottery pick. I'd love to constantly add lottery picks to this team but its not going to happen as long as Dirk is here or he gets hurt for a long period of time. I'd rather go after 19 year old's with Dirk's potential than a Dwight Howard any day of the week but its not possible. Not crying over spilled milk just ready for this headache to be over so we can move on.

And I wonder how long are we going to continue to waste Dirk's prime signing guys to one year contracts to prevent us from getting into a salary cap mess?

CapitanObvious · 07-04-2013, 05:02 AM

Doesn't Mark Cuban have a house in Aspen? Mavs/Houston Smoke Theory? Dwight Singing Redemption songs (new beginnings/new home/new team to build on)? Everything indicates Mavs. D12 Mavs tomorrow. Book it.

Budapest Maverick · 07-04-2013, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Yea but we drafted Dirk with a lottery pick. I'd love to constantly add lottery picks to this team but its not going to happen as long as Dirk is here or he gets hurt for a long period of time. I'd rather go after 19 year old's with Dirk's potential than a Dwight Howard any day of the week but its not possible. Not crying over spilled milk just ready for this headache to be over so we can move on.

And I wonder how long are we going to continue to waste Dirk's prime signing guys to one year contracts to prevent us from getting into a salary cap mess?

I agree with the first part, but with Dirk here, it's a unique situation. I can't see Cuban ever trading him, not even when he is 37, in 2 years, like Ainge did to Garnett and Pierce. The other thing, unfortunately, i think Dirk's prime years are gone. I can see him averaging around his career best PER36 (minus the rebounding), but he will probably have to do it in 30-32 minutes in the regular season. He's not the work horse anymore, we really need that other big dog...

DTownKidd · 07-04-2013, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Boston isn't a destination

Great city IMO.

mavs777 · 07-04-2013, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

I'd rather get Corey Brewer back if you're talking about talking about starting SG. Eric Gordon is not the answer IMO.

Can't tell if serious

Murphy3 · 07-04-2013, 08:02 AM

Yes, Boston is a great city... I strongly prefer the DFW area... Of course, I absolutely hate New York and LA...

rimrocker · 07-04-2013, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

And I wonder how long are we going to continue to waste Dirk's prime signing guys to one year contracts to prevent us from getting into a salary cap mess?

Understand your point but at least one year deals keep the opportunity to sign players that would make a difference alive.
Imagine the mess we would be in right now if we would have over committed to Kaman, Collison and Mayo last season. I think most of us thought Donnie and Mark put together a hell of a plan B after losing out on DWill at the time but we see how that turned out.
I'd just hate to see the Mavs over commit to guys like Bynum, Ellis and/or Iggy this season considering the free agents and draft class next season.

If we over commit to those guys we will most likely waste the rest of Dirk's career as a Mav.

mavs777 · 07-04-2013, 11:41 AM

Someone post the macmahon article

Underdog · 07-04-2013, 11:46 AM

"someone"

Quote:

Cuban's relationship with agent the Dwight-to-Dallas key?

link

A conspiracy theory: The Rockets emerged as a rumored frontrunner to throw folks off the scent that Dwight Howard has been ticketed for Dallas all along.

Those are whispers that ESPN Los Angeles’ Ramona Shelburne has heard on the West coast.

The implication: A wink-wink, nudge-nudge deal has long been in place between Mark Cuban and his pal Dan Fegan, Howard’s agent. I love a good conspiracy theory, but it’s too easy to shoot holes in this one.

Start with the Shawn Marion situation. If this was a done deal, wouldn’t Fegan have convinced his client on the Mavs’ roster to cooperate and make things much easier for everyone?

The best-case scenario for the Mavs would have been Marion exercising the early termination option in his contract and then returning to Dallas on a three-year deal with a salary reduced enough to squeeze Howard’s max deal under the cap. Technically, the Mavs couldn’t have negotiated Marion’s new contract before he opted out, but we’re talking wink-wink, nudge-nudge deals here.

How can the Mavs create enough cap space to sign Howard now? Dumping Marion’s salary in a trade is the most likely scenario. If this was all a pre-arranged deal, would Fegan put another veteran client in danger of being shipped to an undesirable team? (Yes, Marion would pocket an extra $1.4 million with his trade kicker, but if this was all just a money grab for Fegan, he’d be determined to get Howard to stay in L.A. instead of bolting to Dallas.)

It’s true that Cuban and Fegan have a strong business relationship, even a friendship, and have worked together to get several deals. Hey, maybe Fegan really does feel like he owes Cuban for that Erick Dampier contract!

But, if Marion gets dealt this summer, add that to the list of business decisions made by Cuban that disappointed Fegan clients.

*The Mavs shipped Fegan client Drew Gooden to Washington in the deal that got rid of Josh Howard and brought Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood and DeShawn Stevenson to Dallas.

*Jason Terry fired Fegan in part because of frustration stemming from the Mavs’ lack of interest in making a long-term commitment to him during his last year in Dallas.

*The Mavs waived Delonte West, a Fegan client at the time, after twice suspending him for conduct detrimental to the team last fall.

It helps for an owner and agent to have a good relationship, but it guarantees nothing for either side.

mavs777 · 07-04-2013, 11:57 AM

RT @Chris_Broussard: Sources close to Howard tell me Kobe's reported pitch in Tuesday's meeting about teaching D12 how to win will be a "complete turnoff" to D12

grndmstr_c · 07-04-2013, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

RT @Chris_Broussard: Sources close to Howard tell me Kobe's reported pitch in Tuesday's meeting about teaching D12 how to win will be a "complete turnoff" to D12

That was my thought when I heard it.